A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[The Rook]

26 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

It sure was nice hearing Tanya come out to say she didn't release Bruce Allen's email.

 

 

Yep - it was a real kumbaya moment for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Spearfeather]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I didn’t say it was.  But I’m certain that those words have been said on here at some point by somebody.
 

 

I took KDawg:s comment - that you were responding to - to be more about the " Snyder and Allen are really good people " claim, than the " sheep " comment. Maybe it was both.

You can't remember any of those people. Neither can I.

[RandyHolt]

57 minutes ago, The Rook said:

 

 

Yep - it was a real kumbaya moment for me.

 

The Rook

Yeah I guess she was trying to let the boys in the cult know: hey, I am not a rat.  You can trust me to not spill the beans on my husband Mr Synder and his despicable organization.

[mojo]

1 hour ago, The Rook said:

 

 

Yep - it was a real kumbaya moment for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

Things are so much different under Tanya’s leadership. Such a breath of fresh air!  Oops. I meant hot air.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We can all guess what's in those e-mails.  It's full of misogynistic, homophobic, probably racist stuff.  And if I had to bet on any one thing, I would bet that those 650k emails have a preponderance of racist language/thoughts in them.  

 

Think about it, what's the ONE thing that the NFL could absolutely not survive?  What's the ONE thing that would have Goodell scrambling to keep it all private?  The NFL has already shown that it doesn't care about women over the years, more of that would just be par for the course.  No one batted an eye in Jon Gruden's emails about him calling Goodell homophobic names. Barely made an imprint.  

 

What set this whole thing off was what he said about DeMaurice Smith.  And you can't find a touchier subject than race in America post George Floyd and 2020 right now.  

 

The NFL, with a majority African-American workforce, could not survive high ranking team/league people writing back and forth and using more racist language, especially directed at the players.  

 

Look at what happened in the NBA back in 2014 when Donald Sterling made racist comments...racist comments that weren't directed at players.  He made racist comments to his mistress.  The players wanted to shut down the NBA, stop playing games until he was dealt with.  

 

This only happened seven years ago, I actually forgot about what a meltdown this was.  https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27414482/when-donald-sterling-saga-rocked-nba-changed-forever

 

Quote

"I was all-in. Like shut down the whole season," then-Warriors forward Andre Iguodala said. "Maybe that was too far, but as far as that game that day, you can reschedule it, you gotta sort this thing out, because there's some deep-rooted stuff with him that had to be addressed."

The Clippers. The Warriors. The NBA. It was uncharted territory for everyone. No team had ever refused to start a game in the NBA before, never mind the playoffs. It would have been an incredible statement.

"If we didn't play," then-Clippers guard Jamal Crawford said, "I think that honestly it would have outlived us. They would be talking about that while we're not here anymore.

"It's never happened. At that magnitude, at that level."

 

Quote

"I think the organization knew, and I'm sure the NBA knew, like we have a bad apple," then-Clippers forward Matt Barnes said. "And he finally f---ed up. And we have proof now. I mean we have tape now."

The tapes were recorded on Stiviano's cell phone. The story was broken on a celebrity website, TMZ, which hadn't existed a decade earlier, by a reporter who had no background covering the NBA.

 

Quote

Once it was heard, it couldn't be unheard. A reckoning was coming. Within 48 hours, President Barack Obama was answering questions about Sterling.

"I suspect that the NBA is going to be deeply concerned in resolving this," Obama said. "The United States continues to wrestle with a legacy of race and slavery and segregation that's still there."

Within four days, the entire course of NBA history had changed. The tapes went viral and dominated the news cycle. Everything happened at warp speed. Giant decisions, such as whether to boycott playoff games, had to be made at the same time the players were still processing what Sterling had actually said on the tapes.

"We all have family, friends, people that we hadn't talked to in a while that were like, 'You guys cannot play!'" Crawford said. "I remember Q-Tip from A Tribe Called Quest hit me and was like, 'You guys cannot play. This is bigger than you. It's so much bigger than you. You guys can really send a message.'

"I was like, 'Man, I hear where you're coming from.' But at that time, I didn't know what we were going to do."

 

 

It's a good article, worth reading.  Long story short, Adam Silver acted swiftly and decisively and banned Donald Sterling for life.  

 

IMO, those emails contain the worst language towards African-Americans and that's why Goodell is covering it up.  That's why Jerry Jones said he was "satisfied."  What was said about DeMaurice Smith was a snowflake on the iceberg.  I'm betting there's racist language in general and racist language directed at specific players.

 

If those emails ever come to light, there won't be any football on Sundays for awhile to come.  Goodell knows that.  Jerry Jones knows that.  No player will set foot inside of a stadium and won't set foot inside of a stadium for a long time.  The NFL, the league that would love nothing more to avoid social issues, would be embroiled in the biggest social issue scandal in sports history, bar none.  

 

So that's what I'm betting on.  If these emails only contained sexist and homophobic language, it would be out by now.  The NFL can take that punch, they've been doing it for years.  What the NFL can't take is something that'll bring it to its knees and right now at this point in time, it's racism.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Spaceman Spiff

[Conn]

In case anyone needed a reminder why Goodell is happy to eat **** in the media for the owners all day every day:

 

 

[TheBlueIndian]

This is like the barrel roll scene from Talladega Nights where they cut to commercial and come back and the cars are still rolling.  

 

Whenever this ends I think we need to soak the remains in gasoline and light it ablaze, perhaps an exorcism too for good measure.

[Skinsinparadise]

Agree that the Dan believers are far gone now and its water under the bridge.  My 2 cents from recalling it and bringing it to today which hopefully brings better times.  Better yet, we get a miracle and get to live the dream and Dan is removed.   😀  Dan had some loud supporters, never a big list but it was a loud one but the list diminished year after year.   And yeah often the thesis of it was the media unfairly demonized him.  I can recall the last run for one of the more vocal posters in particular who claimed he was a bit of an insider was them explaining the story brought forward by just about every beat guy that Dan wanted Haskins was BS, completely made up by the media and it was Gruden who wanted Haskins.  And Dan's been a good owner who was subjected to bad luck from bad coaching hires.

 

Vinny had a contingent of supporters almost to the end, I recall it well.  Bruce had a contingent of supporters almost to the end, too.  But in the scheme of things it was a small straggler group.  Granted it was very vocal but small.    For both the Vinny and Bruce group they had something in common.  There were some who really liked the job they did, and some who was said they are being unfairly criticized and are at least OK at their job.  Also the media to them misrepresented them both.  The Bruce thread I'd say was more heated than the Vinny one.  And I'd say even I am surprised that Bruce at the end of his tenure would be rated by the fans, in any radio poll I've seen, as worse than Vinny.  And that was before all his finger prints have come out on the culture stuff.  Now, it wouldn't even be a contest.   

 

And I've told @Thinking Skins he might be the emotional MVP of that thread. Although I disagreed with him a bunch on that thread, he was almost never disagreeable and always kept his cool.  I mostly kept my cool but on occasion I didn't and would regret that.  And we all get stuff right or wrong.    Heck I pushed Derrius Guice for example and now those posts would make me look like a clown.  Any of us who posted long enough will get some royally wrong.  As Parcells liked to say, even the professionals are lucky to get 50-50 right.  So for anyone who pushes something and just keeps doubling down even when they are proven wrong, it somewhat surprises me that they struggle to own up to that considering who gets everything right and if they are that sure that they are elite at making football analysis than they are wasting their time posting here and should be working in the NFL.  😀.

 

Ironically the trait of never owning up to his mistakes and judgment is a Dan hallmark.  Usually people like that never improve because if you can't learn from your mistakes then you keep doing them.   From what's been said about Dan, he doesn't own up to mistakes, doesn't take responsibility and if you challenge him he gets angry.  So as I've said before although I fault both Bruce and Vinny for doing lousy jobs.  I don't fault either for doing what needed to be done to survive the jungle and that is be agreeable with Dan.  It speaks volumes to Dan's personality that both of his buds are now estranged with him.  Vinny supposedly and Dan don't talk.  And clearly Bruce and Dan are at odds now.

 

Bringing this home to now.  Rivera is just a breath of fresh air IMO as a person.   He comes off to me as a really good dude.  He's known for his integrity.  night and day from the others.  Heck I know Jason Wright is getting slammed on this thread.  But to me he also comes off like a good guy.  And that matters to me.  We read posts here and other places about fans jumping ship.  And its usually not the losing but more about the lack of class this organization exudes.  We aren't lovable losers like lets say the Cubs were for years.   This organization is a loser while coming off at times both oddly smug and nasty.  And that combination has killed them with some fans from what I observed.   Hopefully Ron can turn things around.  Because if he can't, I am fearful about what's next considering Dan's history.   

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ironically the trait of never owning up to his mistakes and judgment is a Dan hallmark.

Nice way to tie this back to the main culprit in a thread like this.  So true.

 

I don't even care so much that anyone who argued with me relentlessly own up to their mistakes.  Those that accused me of being a sheep, not a "free thinker", and whatever else they used to argue on behalf of the top brass in Ashburn.  I take solace in knowing that every time more comes out they have to be thinking "Damn, I really used to stick up for these guys?".  Live and learn.  Fandom is wild like that.

 

My point bringing it up was in just how wild it is that those positive thoughts about Dan/Bruce/etc. no longer exist or if they do, those folks are afraid to even say it out loud because they will get taken to task by a much larger contingent.  It speaks volumes about where we are as a fanbase.  Beyond the embarrassing attendance figures, even the most hardcore that still show up to places like this, can't even pretend to muster any positive thoughts about the suits in Ashburn, past or even present.  Even Jason Wright has been skewered by what's left of the fanbase.  If there was ever a place to find nice things being said about this organization, places like this should be it.

 

Practically the only thing that unites us here is our disdain for Dan Snyder.  I'm not sure why the other 31 owners can't see the net positive it would be for the league to remove him from ownership.  Even if by some miracle, this team finds a way to start winning.  The old times aren't coming back.  The only way to rejuvenate and rebuild this fanbase is to remove the scumbag owner.  And what better time to do it, with the name change being front and center?  Why let him be responsible for the rebrand in times like this?

Edited October 29, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree that the Dan believers are far gone now and its water under the bridge.  My 2 cents from recalling it and bring it to today which hopefully brings better times.  Better yet, we get a miracle and get to live the dream and Dan is removed.   😀  Dan had some loud supporters, never a big list but it was a loud one but the list diminished year after year.   And yeah often the thesis of it was the media unfairly demonized him.  I can recall the last run for one of the more vocal posters in particular who claimed he was a bit of an insider was them explaining the story about brought forward by just about every beat guy that Dan wanted Haskins was BS, completely made up by the media and it was Gruden who wanted Haskins.  And Dan's been a good owner who was subjected to bad luck from bad coaching hires.

 

Vinny had a contingent of supporters almost to the end, I recall it well.  Bruce had a contingent of supporters almost to the end, too.  But in the scheme of things it was a small straggler group.  Granted it was very vocal but small.    For both the Vinny and Bruce group they had something in common.  There were some who really liked the job they did, and some who was said they are being unfairly criticized and are at least OK at their job.  Also the media to them misrepresented them both.  The Bruce thread I'd say was more heated than the Vinny one.  And I'd say even I am surprised that Bruce at the end of his tenure would be rated by the fans, in any radio poll I've seen, as worse than Vinny.  And that was before all his finger prints have come out on the culture stuff.  Now, it wouldn't even be a contest.   

 

And I've told @Thinking Skins he might be the emotional MVP of that thread. Although I disagreed with him a bunch on that thread, he was almost never disagreeable and always kept his cool.  I mostly kept my cool but on occasion I didn't and would regret that.  And we all get stuff right or wrong.    Heck I pushed Derrius Guice for example and now those posts would make me look like a clown.  Any of us who posted long enough will get some royally wrong.  As Parcells liked to say, even the professionals are lucky to get 50-50 right.  So for anyone who pushes something and just keeps doubling down even when they are proven wrong, it somewhat surprises me that they struggle to own up to that considering who gets everything right and if they are that sure that they are elite at making football analysis than they are wasting their time posting here and should be working in the NFL.  😀.

 

Ironically the trait of never owning up to his mistakes and judgment is a Dan hallmark.  Usually people like that never improve because if you can't learn from your mistakes then you keep doing them.   From what's been said about Dan, he doesn't own up to mistakes, doesn't take responsibility and if you challenge him he gets angry.  So as I've said before although I fault both Bruce and Vinny for doing lousy jobs.  I don't fault either for doing what needed to be done to survive the jungle and that is be agreeable with Dan.  It speaks volumes to Dan's personality that both of his buds are now estranged with him.  Vinny supposedly and Dan don't talk.  And clearly Bruce and Dan are at odds now.

 

Bringing this home to now.  Rivera is just a breath of fresh air IMO as a person.   He comes off to me as a really good dude.  He's known for his integrity.  night and day from the others.  Heck I know Jason Wright is getting slammed on this thread.  But to me he also comes off like a good guy.  And that matters to me.  We read posts here and other places about fans jumping ship.  And its usually not the losing but more about the lack of class this organization exudes.  We aren't lovable losers like lets say the Cubs were for years.   This organization is a loser while coming off at times both oddly smug and nasty.  And that combination has killed them with some fans from what I observed.   Hopefully Ron can turn things around.  Because if he can't, I am fearful about what's next considering Dan's history.   

 

 

I'm not a Dan supporter, but I will relate this story...

 

Six or seven years ago, I was taking photos for ES and I went down to training camp.  Covering training camp was two of my favorite days out of the year.  Get up way early, blast down 95 to Richmond, take photos at camp, sit in the press conference and then go crash at a hotel and get food.  Wake up, shoot camp again and head back to NoVa.  Everyone's in a good mood, the inevitable ****ty season hasn't set in yet.  It's a relaxed, loose time.  

 

Anyway, this one particular year the Redskins were donating a bunch of football gear to local youth teams.  It was all still in the boxes, stacked high and there was going to be a presentation from Redskins leadership to the leadership of the youth football programs.  Turns out, Snyder was the one who was there to donate it.  And it wasn't a huge media gathering, I found out about it because some intern came over to the media members last minute to tell us about it.  I can't even remember exactly where it was, but it wasn't out in the open for everyone to see, it was in some tent out behind the practice fields.  If you didn't know that it was there, you never would have seen it.  Snyder got up, talked for a minute or two about donating the equipment, the relationship between the Redskins and the city of Richmond and what it meant, the importance of youth sports, shook hands, etc.  The whole thing took like 15 minutes from the time the intern came over to the time it was over.  It was almost done in secrecy.  I have to admit, he came across as nice and personable.  I've seen Snyder pose for photos with kids before games and sign autographs, too, and not when the cameras are watching.

 

All of that doesn't erase what he's done to this franchise over the years.  My pop psychology take on Dan is this:  Here's a guy who grew up a nerd.  If he played sports, he didn't excel at them.  And we've all been around a nerd before who suddenly got too big for his britches and thought he was the ****.  They get picked on, bullied and all of a sudden in some aspect of life they come out ahead of everyone else that was being mean to them in their formative years.  Usually it's with money but sometimes they hit the gym, get an impressive physique and lose the awkwardness.  

 

And they don't know how to handle it.  They think that the things they see in movies are real, how rich people act, how men with ripped physiques and chiseled jawlines treat women.  Like leaving the vanilla ice cream in Mike Nolan's office, that's something you'd see in a movie, never in real life.  Like trying to pimp out a cheerleader to a buddy, that's something you'd see in a movie, never in real life, either.  But Snyder, with his newfound wealth and social status can't separate the fiction from the reality.  He's been a nerd his whole life, got lucky, made a **** ton of money and now the tables are turned.  Now he gets to tell the jocks what's up.  Now he's the one calling the shots, now he's the tough guy.  

 

However at his core, he's still the nerd.  He's still awkward.  Maybe not as awkward as he used to be, but still socially awkward, and that's why he's never in front of the media.  "Happy Thanksgiving, everybody."   He's probably thinks that anyone who is being nice to him wants something from him...after all, growing up a nerd, before the money, no one was nice to him.  So it's easier to be a dick to everyone and to protect himself.  

 

If that's coming across as defending him, so be it.  I've made no bones about how terrible he's been to the franchise over the years and how I want him gone.  In regards to Rivera, I think he's a good dude.  Wright came across like a good dude, but I believe he's a puppet for Dan.  He ran away and hid after the Sean Taylor incident, he didn't take ownership of his ****up.  While guys like that come across as good dudes, they show you their true colors when the chips are down.  I don't know if Snyder is a bad guy at his core or not, there's certainly a ton of evidence that he is.  But what matters most is that these people know how to act when **** gets tough.  Rivera, having played with great leaders of men in the mid 80s Bears and having been a leader of men, knows what to do.  Dan certainly doesn't know what to do and I'm questioning if Wright does, too.  He's pulled a Snyder, gone into hiding.  

 

 

[profusion]

For the first decade, the Dan supporters were saying "he's young and learning, give him time."

 

Well, it's been 21 years now. I think he's exactly what he's ever going to be. And that ain't much.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

If that's coming across as defending him, so be it.

I don't see it as defending him at all.  It aligns with my own read on him as well.  

 

You see this even in other walks of life, such as police officers or even managers at regular jobs, basically all positions of various levels of authority.  Guys who never got to call the shots or hold power over others in their life, suddenly get to wield the big stick and they don't know what to do with it and typically handle things very poorly.

 

Worse with Snyder, he became a freaking billionaire.  Beyond that, a lot of folks that make it to where Snyder did typically have mentors that help guide them.  From everything I've read, Snyder had no mentors.  He's a prime example of the saying "money can't buy happiness".  Because while he could buy me and sell me a thousand times over, he doesn't appear to be a happy man.  Never has.  Even when he looks like he's having a great time hanging with the players or coaches or whatever at these events, he still looks like an empty suit.  I mean just look at him in that RG3 bowling video or him dancing to Jump Around in the box or wherever.  He just looks like a guy who was handed too much, too soon, and has absolutely no idea how to handle it.

[drowland]

I think people supported Dan because he was willing to spent big money on free agents and coaches.  He'd win the offseason.  That showed he cared even if it wasn't working.  

 

Weird thing is he wouldn't spend money on other things that are kind of important.  We had one of smallest scouting departments in the league.  Our training facilities are some of the worst in the league.  FedEx Field's turf was one of the worst in the league.   

[justice98]

Basically, it might take a full on whistleblower to blow this thing up.  Like that Facebook lady.  Some suit in the NFL office confirmed to be in a position to know sensitive info, to just say they're fed up and put all the dirt on the table.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Basically, it might take a full on whistleblower to blow this thing up.  Like that Facebook lady.  Some suit in the NFL office confirmed to be in a position to know sensitive info, to just say they're fed up and put all the dirt on the table.  

 

How ****ing weird would it be to be rooting for Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen to be that whistleblower?  

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Nice way to tie this back to the main culprit in a thread like this.  So true.

 

I don't even care so much that anyone who argued with me relentlessly own up to their mistakes.  Those that accused me of being a sheep, not a "free thinker", and whatever else they used to argue on behalf of the top brass in Ashburn.  I take solace in knowing that every time more comes out they have to be thinking "Damn, I really used to stick up for these guys?".  Live and learn.  Fandom is wild like that.

 

Yeah I recall it well.  It was the theme about Dan, Vinny and Bruce but especially Dan.  We are duped by the media.  The thesis was more or less they are making a mountain out of a molehill and things are much better than they appear and they unfairly play down their attributes. 

 

The thing that i would say in the mix of that soup is that I am cynical about plenty brought forward by the media whether in sports or anything.  lol, I argue all the time that the media misrepresents Tannehill's career arc to create a false narrative that they continue to throw out there.  They prop up the Cowboys for self-serving reasons.  I challenge the NFL draft media all the time among other things.  

 

The way I saw it is I've read enough and watched enough of Dan, Bruce, and Vinny to form my own impression of them.  And just because the media doubled down on the same impression I have on my own, doesn't make me less a believer in my own observations.  Granted it was much easier to form impressions of Bruce and Vinny than Dan because they put themselves out enough to see it.  Bruce to me came off every much the smug politician who doesn't know much about personnel as his behind the scenes reputation was.  When Lombardi criticized him, I didn't think dude that stuff is wild, our Bruce how could that be?  Vinny came off just as much of a clown when he spoke that matched his reputation for incompetence.  So the stories about him not being that highly regarded for his work in SF, etc didn't feel wild.   It flowed perfectly with my own observations. 

 

Dan when he used to have the guts to speak publicly was actually more mysterious and the tougher read IMO but you could see the awkwardness on camera, and even the stories by his friends/supporters helped paint the picture.  And if you go back and watch some of Dan's old interviews where he talked about being young and foolish and now he's learned.  In retrospect, they came off even more ridiculous.  

 

But yeah I do recall the sheep comments and that people are gulping up the media nonsense about these guys.  Sadly, over time, its come out that if anything the media underplayed how bad it was, not overplayed it.  Loverro liked to say as a general thought about all topics that if there is a lot of smoke around an organization, then the fire often is even much worse than the smoke leads you to think.   As for this organization, he ended up right.

 

Bringing this back to Rivera and Wright.  I don't think you can survive in this organization to be at odds with Dan a lot.  I listened to a podcast from someone who knows Wright who said that he would have the stones to stand up to Dan knowing Wright.  Sounds good but how often can you do that and survive there for long?   i would bet the reason why Lafemina didn't last long wasn't just because Bruce saw him as a threat (as some of the media suggested) but also because I gather Bruce was willing to play the game and Lafemina wouldn't.   

 

But yet Lafemina didn't quit, he was fired.  In the past some said Jay should have quit or this guy should have quit, etc.  But that's what Dan wants.  He wants you to quit.  He saves his money that way.  You guys recall the dance with Zorn where it came out later that he knew they were goading him to quit but he was going to make them fire him, instead.   Quiting = Dan wins.  So i don't get it when people harp on how this or that person should quit.  And I'd put money that if they were in the same shoes of the dude they are judging on that front, they wouldn't let Dan win and take millions of dollars out of their family's pocket just to make a public stand. 

 

 I don't know about anyone else here.  But when I had a boss, I don't think I had a single one that I could survive by being at odds with them a lot, I could sometimes, but I had to pick my battles.  When you hear back stories pretty much everyone at some point had to cater to Dan.   Even strong willed guys like Shanny.   We can look down on them for doing it.  But I wonder how many of us would do the same especially if we were making 7 figures, how many of us would be willing to give that up because we had to subjugate one of our ideas for theirs?    As I said, i was a loud critic of both Bruce and Vinny but I don't fault them for being toadies.  I fault them for other reasons.  And again the reason why you have to pander and act the way you do to survive that jungle is because of Dan.  The owner sets the culture.  

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/31/redskins-have-faced-business-staff-exodus-since-firing-brian-lafemina/

 

 

Redskins have faced a business staff exodus since the firing of Brian Lafemina

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[TD_washingtonredskins]

@Spaceman Spiff thanks for sharing that story. I've heard similar ones in the past too. That's what I clung to for the years I insisted/hoped that he was misunderstood. 

 

In the end, I'm sure the guy isn't evil or always intending to do ill-will on people. I think he's more likely egotistical, arrogant, selfish, and insecure which results in consistently horrible decisions and oversight of his organization. I hope that doesn't come across as a defense, because it's still him doing bad things for selfish reasons. I just don't think he's out there intending to harm people most of the time. 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Spaceman Spiff thanks for sharing that story. I've heard similar ones in the past too. That's what I clung to for the years I insisted/hoped that he was misunderstood. 

 

In the end, I'm sure the guy isn't evil or always intending to do ill-will on people. I think he's more likely egotistical, arrogant, selfish, and insecure which results in consistently horrible decisions and oversight of his organization. I hope that doesn't come across as a defense, because it's still him doing bad things for selfish reasons. I just don't think he's out there intending to harm people most of the time. 

 

 

Yeah, I just don't think he gets it.  Some people do, some people don't.  Dan could never be a politician.  He could never be a glad hander, back slapper type.  Doesn't have the charisma to do it, doesn't understand why he needs to do it, etc.  

 

People are usually fine when they own up to their shortcomings and their blindspots.  Some can overcome them.  Dan's just not that guy, unfortunately for him and all of us.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I just don't think he's out there intending to harm people most of the time. 

This is probably true.  

 

But he's much more invested in trying to protect himself and whatever he thinks his reputation is, than he is doing the right thing for others.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is probably true.  

 

But he's much more invested in trying to protect himself and whatever he thinks his reputation is, than he is doing the right thing for others.

Absolutely! He's still doing horrible things. 

 

I read my post and realized it came off much more forgiving than I meant it to. I just think that he's not out plotting ways to be evil...but he's always going to take the cowardly/self-centered path. 

[Koolblue13]

57 minutes ago, profusion said:

For the first decade, the Dan supporters were saying "he's young and learning, give him time."

 

Well, it's been 21 years now. I think he's exactly what he's ever going to be. And that ain't much.

I'd say he's made one hell of an impact.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, I just don't think he gets it.  Some people do, some people don't.  Dan could never be a politician.  He could never be a glad hander, back slapper type.  Doesn't have the charisma to do it, doesn't understand why he needs to do it, etc.  

 

People are usually fine when they own up to their shortcomings and their blindspots.  Some can overcome them.  Dan's just not that guy, unfortunately for him and all of us.

 

I've done a few things, auctions among other things that involved the Redskins Charitable Foundation.  And i dealt with great people over there.  Super nice.   When I think of what keeps me a fan that's part of it.

 

I've said before Dan's dedication to charity is cool.  It's something he has in common with the late George Steinbrenner.  Both with the reputation of gross incompetence and are/were a terror to work for with bad cultures but they both give/gave to good causes. 

 

34 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Spaceman Spiff thanks for sharing that story. I've heard similar ones in the past too. That's what I clung to for the years I insisted/hoped that he was misunderstood. 

 

 

 

Personally, i don't think Dan is misunderstood at all.  There is such a litany of stories from both friend and foe of him that leads to a clear picture.  I know you aren't saying otherwise but that you were just hoping he was misunderstood.  

 

To use my own analogy, I was a loud critic of Zorn.  Did the mean that everything about him was bad?  Nope.  I did think he was smart with QBs.  I did think he was a nice guy.  But If I judged him in whole, i thought he was a lousy HC.

 

With Dan, I've applauded him before about his charity streak.  And I've heard the stories of lending his airplane to a player in a pinch among others.  Helping Trent with doctors, etc.    From multiple accounts he does have a charitable side to him.   That's nice.  But on the aggregate as an owner he's IMO a train wreck.  By multiple accounts he's:

 

A. Mean spirted-petty

B.  Over the top greedy at the fans expense

C.  Almost always behind the curve

D.  Rules the office by fear

E.  Condescending

F.  Infuses himself in football decisions -- and does so with the height of incompetence

G. Socially awkward and uses the organization to prop up his social life at times to the detriment to the team

H. Delusional

I.  Can't own up to mistakes or take responsibility

J.  Runs businesses into the ground

K.  Puts his own personal pleasure above the team winning. 

 

And that's before delving into the culture issues with women among other things. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Andre The Giant]

Sally nails it…

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Absolutely! He's still doing horrible things. 

 

I read my post and realized it came off much more forgiving than I meant it to. I just think that he's not out plotting ways to be evil...but he's always going to take the cowardly/self-centered path. 

I got what you meant, I was just providing a little clarification there.  That while he doesn't wake up every morning with a raging hard on to do evil work, priority #1 for Dan is always about Dan and not the impact his actions or inaction have on others.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've done a few things, auctions among other things that involved the Redskins Charitable Foundation.  And i dealt with great people over there.  Super nice.   When I think of what keeps me a fan that's part of it.

 

I've said before Dan's dedication to charity is cool.  It's something he has in common with the late George Steinbrenner.  Both with the reputation of gross incompetence and are/were a terror to work for with bad cultures but they both give/gave to good causes. 

 

 

Personally, i don't think Dan is misunderstood at all.  There is such a litany of stories from both friend and foe of him that leads to a clear picture.  I know you aren't saying otherwise but that you were just hoping he was misunderstood.  

 

To use my own analogy, I was a loud critic of Zorn.  Did the mean that everything about him was bad?  Nope.  I did think he was smart with QBs.  I did think he was a nice guy.  But If I judged him in whole, i thought he was a lousy HC.

 

With Dan, I've applauded him before about his charity streak.  And I've heard the stories of lending his plane to a player in a pinch.  Helping Trent with doctors, etc.    From multiple accounts he does have a charitable side to him.   That's nice.  But on the aggregate as an owner he's IMO a train wreck.  By multiple accounts he's:

 

A. Mean spirted

B.  Greedy

C.  Almost always behind the curve

D.  Rules the office by fear

E.  Condescending

F.  Infuses himself in football decisions

G. Socially awkward and uses the organization to prop up his social life at times to the detriment to the team

H. Delusional

I.  Can't own up to mistakes or take responsibility

J.  Runs businesses into the ground

 

And like Steinbrenner, doesn't always make it public.  

 

Your list is encompassing, for sure.