A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[@DCGoldPants]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Naw man, that's pure Stockholm syndrome.

 

Only reason I'd stick around to face this absolute level of abuse from something I love. Otherwise, I'd have been moved on.

 

It's something I don't understand. The whole stadium experience was a giant shakedown. Like a old cartoon where they guy is hung upside down and shook for the coins to fall out of his pockets. Then every break in play you'd hear the voice of one Larry Michael trying to sell something different to the people in the seats. 

[Thinking Skins]

18 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Now I'm curious.  Hidden content on a "transcript" post and then a "never mind..."

I had a thought. THen thinking about it, figured it wasn't funny and you wouldn't get it. Tried to delete it and instead some hidden thingie came up. I posted anyway. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

25 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I had a thought. THen thinking about it, figured it wasn't funny and you wouldn't get it. Tried to delete it and instead some hidden thingie came up. I posted anyway. 

I post things that aren’t funny all the time, surely you can do it  

 

(que the: “yeah, this is one of them) 

[TK]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:54 PM, Llevron said:

 

Funny -- we have that in common. I was in marching bands from middle school through college. 

 

I don't know that we need to bore everyone with nerdy band talk. But I just wanted to respond in kind since apparently we both share a passion and should have auditioned for this new band! What did you play though? That's the important question. I was basically all brass. Euph specifically. But I played them all. 

Who's bored?

 

I played/marched from middle school through Senior year. Low Brass Section Leader, First Chair, First Chair All County concert band as well. All County was made up of all three county high school bands. I marched with a Baritone & for bigger home games me & my first chair trombone player would switch over to marching with Sousaphones & do that 8 step clockwise/counter clockwise spin. Oh & I started out on trumpet/cornet. The cornet was my grandfathers who passed it on to my dad. Pop passed it on to me & then when I switched to Baritone, my brother was old enough to start playing & I think he still has that cornet today. Man. I hadn't even thought about that horn in years. Thanks to you & @Voice_of_Reason for the slight distraction.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

So, like, WTF happened to the Mary Jo White investigation?  Seems the league has successfully put this on the back burner again, here we are discussing the band when we should be discussing the Snyder situation.  The story is dying folks.  Dying right before our eyes.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

I posted this as a response in a different thread, but it's really more applicable here, so I'm putting it here as well.  

 

Whatever you want to say about Dan, on the football side, the roster has been almost entirely turned over from the 3-13 debacle of 2019.   Here is the comparison.  

 

** Note, they flipped from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (actually more of a 4-2) in 2020, so there are some positions which are a bit wonky.

 

I know that you are sour on everything the organization does, sour on Ron, etc.  And you overtly look for things to complain about.  

 

The 2022 team is MUCH better than the 2019 version.  I'd even say it's a "good" roster.  Is it championship level?  No. But it's a far cry from the 2019 roster which was devoid of talent everywhere.  

 

Some notes on the "grades":

** I took Trent Williams out of the equation, because he didn't play in 2019, and was not going to play for Ron either, so he's just a scratch from both.

 

- On the "push" for the DT, Allen and Payne are obviously the same. Mathis/Wise vs. MattyI/Settle, I think is a push, though it's very possible Mathis is better for what they want than either MI or Settle.  But I gave it a push.  

 

- The ONE position I gave the 2019 group the edge was guard.  Scherff and Flowers are better than Norwell and Turner/Schweitzer.  However, there's not damn way I would have paid Scherff what the Jags did on a long term deal.  

 

- At WR, I gave the 2022 a significant advantage even though the best receiver is the same, because it was "Terry and Nobody" in 2019.  Richardson was supposed to be the #2, but he was never healthy and was an awful signing.  Based on the fat he played in both pre-season games, and he's practicing every day, Samuel will contribute.  Dotson might be as good as Terry.  Sims bumps from being a starter to the 4th guy.  That's how much better the 2022 group is than the 2019 group.  

 

I put this here because I think Ron and the football side (Martin, Marty, etc.) have done a pretty good job, all-in-all, with the roster and the team, in the face of a lot of adversity.  

Edited August 29, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Wildbunny]

17 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I put this here because I think Ron and the football side (Martin, Marty, etc.) have done a pretty good job, all-in-all, with the roster and the team, in the face of a lot of adversity.  

I would reserve that last part to what will happen this season.

 

Comparing players is one thing, but I'd do it at the end of the year. People were pretty excited before the 2019 season thinking that team was already way better than the 2018 version of it, which was way better than the 2017, and so on...

 

It's nothing new to get excited and thinking this is a good roster. Let's see how they do on any given sunday, in games that matters. This team might look better on the field, still the defense was atrocious last year and there was not much of a change. So I'm expecting similar results from them. So, no, I'm not expecting more than 8/9 wins, if we're lucky.

[Peregrine]

31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I posted this as a response in a different thread, but it's really more applicable here, so I'm putting it here as well.  

 

Whatever you want to say about Dan, on the football side, the roster has been almost entirely turned over from the 3-13 debacle of 2019.   Here is the comparison.  

 

** Note, they flipped from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (actually more of a 4-2) in 2020, so there are some positions which are a bit wonky.

 

I know that you are sour on everything the organization does, sour on Ron, etc.  And you overtly look for things to complain about.  

 

The 2022 team is MUCH better than the 2019 version.  I'd even say it's a "good" roster.  Is it championship level?  No. But it's a far cry from the 2019 roster which was devoid of talent everywhere.  

Says who?  The 2022 team hasnt played or won a game yet, and most of the power rankings Ive seen have them in the bottom 10.  Praising Dan for the possibility that he might not have a terrible team is all kinds of desperate.

[hail2skins]

From a W-L perspective, I compare the seven-year mark with Jay and Ron (so far) to be roughly similar to the 1996-2001 stretch with Norv and Marty. Overall I think Washington is like the 6th worst team under Dan's ownership overall, but during the most recent seven seasons, we are "only" 9th worst, and of course the disastrous 2019 had a lot to do with it. Not great by any means and certainly we need to strive to string together several 10+ win seasons in a row, but hopefully progress is being made. I don't think we're going to go back to Dan's first decade of ownership where he had a lot of different head coaches relative to the timeframe.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I posted this as a response in a different thread, but it's really more applicable here, so I'm putting it here as well.  

 

Whatever you want to say about Dan, on the football side, the roster has been almost entirely turned over from the 3-13 debacle of 2019.   Here is the comparison.  

 

** Note, they flipped from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (actually more of a 4-2) in 2020, so there are some positions which are a bit wonky.

 

 

 

 

Pausen at TE (2022)?...Did you mean Thomas?

 

 

2 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Says who?  The 2022 team hasnt played or won a game yet, and most of the power rankings Ive seen have them in the bottom 10.  Praising Dan for the possibility that he might not have a terrible team is all kinds of desperate.

 

 

Never, EVER, use power rankings to prove any point other than power rankings are useless lol...

Edited August 29, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Voice_of_Reason]

56 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Pausen at TE (2022)?...Did you mean Thomas?

Yes. For whatever reason, I make that mistake more often than I should though I really know which is which.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Comparing players is one thing, but I'd do it at the end of the year. People were pretty excited before the 2019 season thinking that team was already way better than the 2018 version of it, which was way better than the 2017, and so on...

I don't remember that at all.  I think the going theory was they were worse.  Worse at QB, still with RB questions, we hadn't even seen that Terry was any good yet...  Manusky was still the DC. There was an over/under thread on when Jay was going to get fired, (which I didn't start, btw), if I recall.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Says who?  The 2022 team hasnt played or won a game yet, and most of the power rankings Ive seen have them in the bottom 10.  Praising Dan for the possibility that he might not have a terrible team is all kinds of desperate.

1. If you can't tell this roster is more talented than the 2019 roster, I can't help you.  There is literally no question it is, on paper, MUCH more talented.  Now, will they win 10+ games?  That remains to be seen.  But if you can't acknowledge the talent level is higher, I don't know what to tell you.

 

2. I never mentioned Dan.  Not once.  I don't think Dan has anything to do with it.  This thread was not intended to be ONLY about Dan, it's also Ron and Jason. There are other people in the building who make decisions other than Dan. I'm not defending Dan in any way.  I guess it could come off that way, since I'm not 100% Dan obsesses like some posters, where absolutely EVERY SINGLE THING has to relate to Dan in some way shape or form. 

 

I simply said, Ron, Martin and Marty have done a good job of upgrading the roster and infusing talent from the absolutely **** show of a roster they inherited, which was mis-managed and devoid of talent just about everywhere.  In 3 off-seasons, they've rebuilt the entire roster, save for a few folks.  That's really not so much of a hot take either.  

 

It's possible they win 3 games again this year, like they did in 2019.  But the odds are they will by 8+.  

[Wildbunny]

46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't remember that at all.  I think the going theory was they were worse.  Worse at QB, still with RB questions, we hadn't even seen that Terry was any good yet...  Manusky was still the DC. There was an over/under thread on when Jay was going to get fired, (which I didn't start, btw), if I recall.  

That's how I remember this place since well the last twenty years or something.

But my memory can be wrong sometimes... I'm getting old.

[Zim489]

23 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I posted this as a response in a different thread, but it's really more applicable here, so I'm putting it here as well.  

 

Whatever you want to say about Dan, on the football side, the roster has been almost entirely turned over from the 3-13 debacle of 2019.   Here is the comparison.  

 

** Note, they flipped from a 3-4 to a 4-3 (actually more of a 4-2) in 2020, so there are some positions which are a bit wonky.

 

I know that you are sour on everything the organization does, sour on Ron, etc.  And you overtly look for things to complain about.  

 

The 2022 team is MUCH better than the 2019 version.  I'd even say it's a "good" roster.  Is it championship level?  No. But it's a far cry from the 2019 roster which was devoid of talent everywhere.  

 

Some notes on the "grades":

** I took Trent Williams out of the equation, because he didn't play in 2019, and was not going to play for Ron either, so he's just a scratch from both.

 

- On the "push" for the DT, Allen and Payne are obviously the same. Mathis/Wise vs. MattyI/Settle, I think is a push, though it's very possible Mathis is better for what they want than either MI or Settle.  But I gave it a push.  

 

- The ONE position I gave the 2019 group the edge was guard.  Scherff and Flowers are better than Norwell and Turner/Schweitzer.  However, there's not damn way I would have paid Scherff what the Jags did on a long term deal.  

 

- At WR, I gave the 2022 a significant advantage even though the best receiver is the same, because it was "Terry and Nobody" in 2019.  Richardson was supposed to be the #2, but he was never healthy and was an awful signing.  Based on the fat he played in both pre-season games, and he's practicing every day, Samuel will contribute.  Dotson might be as good as Terry.  Sims bumps from being a starter to the 4th guy.  That's how much better the 2022 group is than the 2019 group.  

 

I put this here because I think Ron and the football side (Martin, Marty, etc.) have done a pretty good job, all-in-all, with the roster and the team, in the face of a lot of adversity.  

I personally dont think the 2019 team was 3-13 bad. Not a good roster but not one of the worst in the league. That record was more to do about the horrid coaching staff that was in place and Bruce/Dans forcing of a QB. Jay is an F Tier HC only followed up by maybe the biggest boomer in football in Callahan following.

 

Id say the floor of the team has been significantly raised. The ceiling has not. There still is a complete dearth of elite talent. Could argue that only 1 person on the roster is in argument of top 5 of their position. 3 for the top 10. Ron has built what many fans in Carolina were tired of at the end of his tenure. A decent team thats going to battle for the playoffs but likely not make any noise but never have a fall out either. A complete purgatory on a year to year basis. 

 

Given the state of the roster with only 4 CBs as of 9am on cutdown day, the woeful LBs (I am not high on Cole at all), Safeties and QB I think Ron and Co have proven themselves as being among one of the worst Front Offices in Football. A spot most football heads have been putting them at all offseason.

 

Until Ron and Co are finding elite talent (preferably at the QB position) or some one else comes in and does so were going to be stuck in the middle. Just like they have been for the past 30 years. Im just so tired of the perpetually average teams this franchise produces. Ron and Co arent doing anything different than their predecessors. Building for the short term and if it helps the long term awesome. The prime example is this draft where they threw value both in the players they drafted and the positions to the wind all to produce as much as they can this year. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Zim489

[hail2skins]

11 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Until Ron and Co are finding elite talent (preferably at the QB position) or some one else comes in and does so were going to be stuck in the middle. Just like they have been for the past 30 years. Im just so tired of the perpetually average teams this franchise produces 

And we're just inching closer to the middle. In the decade which encompassed the Spurrier years through Shanny, this team was serious dreck, with the exception of a couple of solid Gibbs years and a magical seven game run by RG3.

[88Comrade2000]

The next coach will stink. Jim Zorn part 2. We may start out decent but then crash and burn. Dan will be in charge again and picking key players. 
 

Then after 2-3 years; he will lure the next so called savior. Probably have to offer a record breaking deal to lure anyone good.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

55 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The next coach will stink. Jim Zorn part 2. We may start out decent but then crash and burn. Dan will be in charge again and picking key players. 
 

Then after 2-3 years; he will lure the next so called savior. Probably have to offer a record breaking deal to lure anyone good.

 

I hear Mike McCarthy will be available in 2-3 years...maybe even in 2-3 months, once the Cowboys start out 1-9!

 

There's always the chance that the shooting will be the final decision point for Rivera to retire early, especially after everything he's been through with cancer, COVID, QB drama, Snyder's meddling, Snyder's toxic work environment, etc.

 

Next up...Coach Jack Del Rio!

Edited August 30, 2022 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[SoCalSkins]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:32 AM, @DCGoldPants said:

 

It's something I don't understand. The whole stadium experience was a giant shakedown. Like a old cartoon where they guy is hung upside down and shook for the coins to fall out of his pockets. Then every break in play you'd hear the voice of one Larry Michael trying to sell something different to the people in the seats. 

It’s amazing how much more fun it is going to away games. There is always a massive amount of Washington fans at most away games. They are also happy to be there, generally in a great mood and super enthusiastic. So different than the FedEx field experience. I had more fun at the Raiders game last year than almost any game I have been to at FedEx except the playoff game against Detroit, Joe Gibbs first game back against Tampa and a few others.  
 

You never feel like the fan base is shrinking at away games. Next year we play at the Rams at Sofi. At least 40% of the stadium will be Washington fans. So a super bowl champ with 2 super bowl appearances in the previous 4 years in a brand new 5 billion dollar stadium will be taken over by the fan base with the lowest home attendance in the NFL. 

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The next coach will stink. Jim Zorn part 2. We may start out decent but then crash and burn. Dan will be in charge again and picking key players. 
 

Then after 2-3 years; he will lure the next so called savior. Probably have to offer a record breaking deal to lure anyone good.

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

It’s amazing how much more fun it is going to away games. There is always a massive amount of Washington fans at most away games. They are also happy to be there, generally in a great mood and super enthusiastic. So different than the FedEx field experience. I had more fun at the Raiders game last year than almost any game I have been to at FedEx except the playoff game against Detroit, Joe Gibbs first game back against Tampa and a few others.  
 

You never feel like the fan base is shrinking at away games. Next year we play at the Rams at Sofi. At least 40% of the stadium will be Washington fans. So a super bowl champ with 2 super bowl appearances in the previous 4 years in a brand new 5 billion dollar stadium will be taken over by the fan base with the lowest home attendance in the NFL. 

My theory is fans outside of the toxic media market which dwell on everything negative all the time who  consume much less dc local media just aren’t as turned away as the fans inside the bubble.  If you live outside the area and you’re more of a Normal, casual fan, you are probably sick of the losing but you escape the day to day negativity which drives the narrative locally.  

 

Hence, there are more fans outside the area than in it.  It’s much harder to escape it locally than nationally.  
 

Then toss in FedEx is a toxic waste dump, and there is your reason there are more fans at away games and out of town fans are much happier than local fans.  
 

This isn’t a defense if Dan.  He’s a schmuck.  Its just the framing of the narrative locally has been so loud and constant here which you don’t get elsewhere, you could say they are living in blissful ignorance….

[Conn]

 

Been talking about this for years here. So frustrating and betrays either a gross level of schematic incompetence—or a serious lack of trust in the QB. This year we’re finally going to find out—I know which one I’m rooting for. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

 

 

[Conn]

^^in response to that, it’s definitely an underrepresented viewpoint here: that it’s possible we didn’t just arrogantly sit out FA—maybe we had some FA targets, guys with plenty of other options, not interested in us at a reasonable market value because of all the negative drama with Snyder. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Standig

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

^^in response to that, it’s definitely an underrepresented viewpoint here: that it’s possible we didn’t just arrogantly sit out FA—maybe we had some FA targets, guys with plenty of other options, not interested in us at a reasonable market value because of all the negative drama with Snyder. 

No, it’s not underrepresented. I’ve been screaming from the mountain tops. As have others. It’s an under accepted reality. People don’t want to believe it so they fight it.

Edited September 1, 2022 by KDawg