A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Number 44]

3 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Since the beginning of the NFL some 55 years ago

Revisionist history?

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:55 AM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Yeah, I think a huge subset of the fanbase that existed pre-Snyder is gone for good. Not all are "gone" in the literal sense that they go hiking or to art museums every fall Sunday (I'm sure some do), but "gone" in that they don't care and will never care nearly as much. The passion they had under Cooke, Gibbs, etc. will never be rekindled. And, I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that even 10 straight undefeated seasons and the Commanders turning into the greatest dynasty of all-time would change that. 

 

The hope that this organization can cling to, in my opinion, is that a rebrand is successful and can hook a new group of fans. I'm sure it will keep some holdovers too. Maybe this is easier for me since I'm already gone, but it almost makes more sense for them to stop trying with the older fans. Turn their back on the history and the people who were like me and just look forward. This isn't the Redskins anymore. Those Super Bowl trophies from the 1980s may as well be NFL titles from the 1930s and 1940s that I read about as a kid at this point. 

 

The stadiums is about to be in its second new location since those years. The name is different. The uniforms are different. The owner is different. Create something new and hope it catches fire to bring in new people, because 80-90% of what you inherited is gone. It does them no good to try to straddle the fence to appease the 56-year old wearing a Riggo jersey anymore. That ship has sailed. 

 

And, by the way, just because I can say that objectively...doesn't mean I'm rooting for it to work. I want nothing more than for Snyder to fail because he sucks ass and he's a giant dildo. But, if I was giving legit advice, that's what I'd tell him to do. I hope he doesn't read that. 

 

These are all good points but as an aside, I think a reason it's hard to have that passion fans had under Cooke, Gibbs, etc, is that you can't keep a unit together like you could in the 80s.  We had the Hogs for 10+ years, Darrell Green for his entire career, Art Monk for most of his (and the rest of The Posse, too), etc.  Having guys for the majority of their careers helps in that arena; knowing that the core of the team will be together for a long time is crucial.  It certainly helps if you win with those guys, too.

 

I will disagree that the fans won't come back in droves if this team is a winner.  To your point about the Super Bowl trophies practically being from a time so long ago that appears to be incomprehensible to us today....the 2005 team wasn't THAT long ago.  But I was at the game where we beat the **** out of the Parcells led Cowboys, 35-7 and Fed Ex was on fire.  More recently (but not THAT recently) RG3's rookie year with Alfred Morris...it was electric, too.  

 

That's the thing that doesn't get mentioned over Snyder's tenure...you get those rare glimpses of what it could be.  They're fleeting moments or maybe a whole season where it feels like the old days again.  And when you get those moments or a whole season, it's awesome.  

 

And you're not gone.  I don't believe any poster on here who posts a lot is "gone."  We might all be a lot of things, but we're still here, aching for a winner because we know just how ****ing amazing it can be.  

 

Yeah, they have to hook a new group of fans because there's a generation or two between the crowd that was here for the glory years and now that aren't into this team.  It's been talked about on here for years how kids growing up in this area are Ravens fans if they're in Maryland or they like some other team that's not the Skins/Commanders.  I don't think the rebrand and a successful team is going to win over many of the people who haven't been paying too close attention over the past 20 years.  Sure, you'll get some bandwagoners, but the diehards?  Not likely.  The 56 year old guy wearing a Riggo jersey isn't going anywhere no matter what.  To my prior points about the 2005 team and the RG3 team, if you were in your 30s then, you're in your 40s or 50s now and, most likely, life priorities have shifted.  It's hard to make this franchise a priority when they're constantly ****.

 

But to your final point, it's a rock and a hard place in regards to wanting to see this team succeed under Snyder.  We want to see a winner, but Snyder be miserable at the same time.  It's a weird feeling to root for this team every Sunday, yet at the same time root for Snyder to fail.  It's completely contradictory and I don't know how I feel about it.  Yes, he's a giant dildo.  I've said that if this team ever wins a Super Bowl under him, the trophy presentation will be hard to watch.  I'd be elated for the players and the fans but the second he gets his grubby little hands on that Lombardi, I think I'd be pissed.  I'd turn off the TV at that point, I can't fathom the thought of seeing that little prick celebrating.

 

And then what?  I've promised not to buy any gear while he's still the owner but I'd want a Super Bowl Champion T-shirt or something, right?  But I've vowed not to put any of my money in his pocket and I can't budge on that.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

The fans would come back if the team was consistently winning.

 

but…

 

That’s never going to happen as long as Dan is the owner.

 

Never.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The fans would come back if the team was consistently winning.

 

but…

 

That’s never going to happen as long as Dan is the owner.

 

Never.

If I had 100 chips to place on that bet, I would place 80 chips on "never going to be a consistent winner."

 

But I would still place 20 chips on the "Could be a consistent winner."

 

Why?  Because it can happen.  It's actually a pretty simple formula:

 

1. Dan has to hire the right people to run the football operations.  Front office, Coaching Staff, etc.

2. Dan needs to pay the bills.  Whatever the football people agree on, he pays for it.  

3. Dan needs to, otherwise, stay out of the way.  

4. The scandals of the past need to stop being a distraction for the current team, one way or the other.  Either they are cleared, settled, or whatever.  

 

(This assumes Dan continues to own the team through all of the current noise.  Which I think is, unfortunately, likely.)

 

The question is, can he do those things?  The answer is ...  maybe? (Malory Rubin, of The Ringer, has a really good way of saying "Maybe" where her voice rises 3 octaves which conveys a significant amount of doubt while sill acknowledging "maybe." Like, "it's possible, but not really ****ing likely."  That's the type of voice I would be using if I was speaking this. 

 

1.  Is Ron the right guy to run the football ops?  I don't know.  But he's damn sure better than Bruce and Jay.  Is that good enough?  Jury is still out.  This year will really indicate more as to which direction it's trending.  IF it turns out Ron isn't the guy, I have absolutely no hope Dan can find somebody better.  Either on the GM side or the coaching side.  Dan's legacy of overruling his football people is so well known, what top GM candidate is coming here with that risk....  So I hope to hell Ron is the guy.  At least to get the football ship pointed in the right direction. 

 

2. There is a lot of speculation Dan can't pay the bills.  He has cash-flow issues because merchandise sales are down, people don't go to the games, and sponsors are leaving.  I've been steadfast that I have no idea how much liquid cash the team has, and I refuse to speculate about it one way or the other, because it's absolutely pure speculation.  The impending Terry deal, if it happens, will be telling.  If they get that done, Dan will have committed probably an extra $88M in cash this year between McLaurin and Wentz.  That's not nothing. So we'll see.

 

3. We have no indication Dan has been involved directly in football ops since Ron took over.  I'm pretty confident he's staying out of the way.  Just because there's been no reporting to the contrary, and just about none of the moves scream "Dan" type moves. 

 

4.  The scandals are tough.  There really is no indication anything untoward is going on right now.  Ron is a top-notch character guy.  It seems as though, whatever his faults, Jason Wright isn't a scumbag.  If they were to tell me the workplace misconduct stuff is all entirely in the past, given who's in the organization now, and importantly, who's not, I'd hear them out on that.  But one way or another, I think they all get wrapped up in the next 6 months. Either they find the smoking gun, or they don't.  But the NFL isn't going to hang-on forever.  They will eventually be the Mary Jo White report, and that will be that.  If they owners want him out, they will use the MJW report to make that happen.  If they don't, they won't.  

 

My hope is after the MJW report comes out, it will be the end of the past scandals.  I very much doubt it will be, but that's my hope.  The NFL is going to look through every penny to make sure Dan didn't steal from them.  If they determine they are comfortable with the practices, then it doesn't really matter what the AGs or FTC do. I think the Tifany Johnson allegations will also be mentioned, but I'd be willing to bet they will find it's not able to be corroborated by anybody except that Sales guy who has an axe to grind.  So I think that will go nowhere.  From a scandal perspective, it's all about the financial stuff.  If that turns out to be nothing, it's over.  

 

So, could they be a consistent winner?  Yes.  I think it hangs on Ron.  If he turns out to be the right guy, and can have double-digit wins the next several seasons, I think that would do wonders to the team's reputation. If he doesn't, I don't see a lot of hope.  Dan would have to strike gold on a no-name coach who turns into a generational talent.   Personally, I don't think the team will have trouble paying players, but we'll see.  If they start winning, I think Dan will continue to lay low.  

 

I just don't know if Dan's past is going to allow the rest of the noise to end.  Next to Ron, that's my next biggest question.  Even if he magically turned into a brilliant owner, I'm not sure if the past won't crush everything anyway.  

[hail2skins]

Acquiring that stud QB is so key. We've had a brief discussion about Gibbs recently in this thread and the famous attribute to Gibbs 1 was "won three Super Bowls with three different QBs." I don't think a coach is going to have that happen in today's league. Can Wentz be the guy? Right now, it appears the answer to that will be the most influential on whether Ron's tenure here is successful.

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

1. Dan has to hire the right people to run the football operations.  Front office, Coaching Staff, etc.

2. Dan needs to pay the bills.  Whatever the football people agree on, he pays for it.  

3. Dan needs to, otherwise, stay out of the way.  

4. The scandals of the past need to stop being a distraction for the current team, one way or the other.  Either they are cleared, settled, or whatever.  

 

 

 

And here I was thinking, after 20+ years of experience, that you understood how this all works by now.

 

Here's VOR, in 2022, betting 20% of his money on Dan and his minions somehow changing things:

 

 

 

Also, remember, after firing Bumbling Bruce he stated that he needs to be MORE involved, not less!

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

2. There is a lot of speculation Dan can't pay the bills.  He has cash-flow issues because merchandise sales are down, people don't go to the games, and sponsors are leaving.  I've been steadfast that I have no idea how much liquid cash the team has, and I refuse to speculate about it one way or the other, because it's absolutely pure speculation.  The impending Terry deal, if it happens, will be telling.  If they get that done, Dan will have committed probably an extra $88M in cash this year between McLaurin and Wentz.  That's not nothing. So we'll see.

An NFL team defaulting on paying its own players.

 

That would be huge. Really...

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If I had 100 chips to place on that bet, I would place 80 chips on "never going to be a consistent winner."

 

But I would still place 20 chips on the "Could be a consistent winner."

 

Why?  Because it can happen.  It's actually a pretty simple formula:

 

1. Dan has to hire the right people to run the football operations.  Front office, Coaching Staff, etc.

2. Dan needs to pay the bills.  Whatever the football people agree on, he pays for it.  

3. Dan needs to, otherwise, stay out of the way.  

4. The scandals of the past need to stop being a distraction for the current team, one way or the other.  Either they are cleared, settled, or whatever.  

 

(This assumes Dan continues to own the team through all of the current noise.  Which I think is, unfortunately, likely.)

 

The question is, can he do those things?  The answer is ...  maybe? (Malory Rubin, of The Ringer, has a really good way of saying "Maybe" where her voice rises 3 octaves which conveys a significant amount of doubt while sill acknowledging "maybe." Like, "it's possible, but not really ****ing likely."  That's the type of voice I would be using if I was speaking this. 

 

1.  Is Ron the right guy to run the football ops?  I don't know.  But he's damn sure better than Bruce and Jay.  Is that good enough?  Jury is still out.  This year will really indicate more as to which direction it's trending.  IF it turns out Ron isn't the guy, I have absolutely no hope Dan can find somebody better.  Either on the GM side or the coaching side.  Dan's legacy of overruling his football people is so well known, what top GM candidate is coming here with that risk....  So I hope to hell Ron is the guy.  At least to get the football ship pointed in the right direction. 

 

2. There is a lot of speculation Dan can't pay the bills.  He has cash-flow issues because merchandise sales are down, people don't go to the games, and sponsors are leaving.  I've been steadfast that I have no idea how much liquid cash the team has, and I refuse to speculate about it one way or the other, because it's absolutely pure speculation.  The impending Terry deal, if it happens, will be telling.  If they get that done, Dan will have committed probably an extra $88M in cash this year between McLaurin and Wentz.  That's not nothing. So we'll see.

 

3. We have no indication Dan has been involved directly in football ops since Ron took over.  I'm pretty confident he's staying out of the way.  Just because there's been no reporting to the contrary, and just about none of the moves scream "Dan" type moves. 

 

4.  The scandals are tough.  There really is no indication anything untoward is going on right now.  Ron is a top-notch character guy.  It seems as though, whatever his faults, Jason Wright isn't a scumbag.  If they were to tell me the workplace misconduct stuff is all entirely in the past, given who's in the organization now, and importantly, who's not, I'd hear them out on that.  But one way or another, I think they all get wrapped up in the next 6 months. Either they find the smoking gun, or they don't.  But the NFL isn't going to hang-on forever.  They will eventually be the Mary Jo White report, and that will be that.  If they owners want him out, they will use the MJW report to make that happen.  If they don't, they won't.  

 

My hope is after the MJW report comes out, it will be the end of the past scandals.  I very much doubt it will be, but that's my hope.  The NFL is going to look through every penny to make sure Dan didn't steal from them.  If they determine they are comfortable with the practices, then it doesn't really matter what the AGs or FTC do. I think the Tifany Johnson allegations will also be mentioned, but I'd be willing to bet they will find it's not able to be corroborated by anybody except that Sales guy who has an axe to grind.  So I think that will go nowhere.  From a scandal perspective, it's all about the financial stuff.  If that turns out to be nothing, it's over.  

 

So, could they be a consistent winner?  Yes.  I think it hangs on Ron.  If he turns out to be the right guy, and can have double-digit wins the next several seasons, I think that would do wonders to the team's reputation. If he doesn't, I don't see a lot of hope.  Dan would have to strike gold on a no-name coach who turns into a generational talent.   Personally, I don't think the team will have trouble paying players, but we'll see.  If they start winning, I think Dan will continue to lay low.  

 

I just don't know if Dan's past is going to allow the rest of the noise to end.  Next to Ron, that's my next biggest question.  Even if he magically turned into a brilliant owner, I'm not sure if the past won't crush everything anyway.  

Ron has Never had back to back winning seasons and that’s not changing here.

While it’s true he had 3 straight playoff seasons, one of those was with a losing record.

 

The best case for Ron, he makes the playoffs every other year.

[SkinsFTW]

Well I wouldn't say that it's impossible for RR to have 2 winning seasons in a row if Wentz turns out to be the QB perfect for the system.

 

But to believe that there's a chance that this team is going to be a consistent winner, like 10+ games for 8-9 out of 10 seasons, is kind of funny because at some point you know that Dan's going to jump in and say "What we really need on this team is a couple of these pro bowlers from 5 years ago." Then the Looney Tunes theme song queues up. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron has Never had back to back winning seasons and that’s not changing here.

While it’s true he had 3 straight playoff seasons, one of those was with a losing record.

 

The best case for Ron, he makes the playoffs every other year.

Well, it’s true they had a down year after the SB, which isn’t unique. 
 

But they made the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.  One was with a losing record.  But they won a game in that playoff run.  Also, Cam was banged up that season.
 

If they could do that here, we’d be ecstatic.  

 

Name me a coach who loses their starting QB and there isn’t a drop off.  It has happened.  But three backups were Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and Steve Young.  If you get that lucky, fine.  Otherwise, if you lose your starting QB you are somewhat sunk.  
 

The exception that proves the rule is Nick Foles.  Late in the season he gave the eagles enough to win the SB.  

2 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Well I wouldn't say that it's impossible for RR to have 2 winning seasons in a row if Wentz turns out to be the QB perfect for the system.

 

But to believe that there's a chance that this team is going to be a consistent winner, like 10+ games for 8-9 out of 10 seasons, is kind of funny because at some point you know that Dan's going to jump in and say "What we really need on this team is a couple of these pro bowlers from 5 years ago." Then the Looney Tunes theme song queues up. 

You don’t know that.  
 

It’s probable.  But if they are consistently winning, he might just stick to what works.  
 

But regardless, Ron is not going to be here 10 more years anyway.  He’s too old.
 

I’ll take 5 years of playoff contention with a deep run at some point and be content.

 

To your point, the circus music starts when Ron has to be replaced.  
 

I think it almost needs to be an internal candidate or else we’re going to end up with Jim Zorn again.  

Edited May 30, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

An NFL team defaulting on paying its own players.

 

That would be huge. Really...

That’s not what I meant.  I meant Dan had the team on a budget which is why they haven’t been more aggressive in FA and extensions.  

16 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Here's VOR, in 2022, betting 20% of his money on Dan and his minions somehow changing things:

He doesn’t have any of his minions left.  
 

I have no idea what will happen.  
 

The odds are he will screw it up.

 

But there is no evidence he has interfered with Ron yet.  
 

Maybe he will.  He probably will.  
 

But since it hasn’t happens yet the future is unknown.  
 

The other thing is, he doesn’t have a Vinny or Bruce in the building anymore.  All the FO guys are brought in by Ron.  The whole organization is Ron centric.  It makes interfering harder.  

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s not what I meant.  I meant Dan had the team on a budget which is why they haven’t been more aggressive in FA and extensions.  

He doesn’t have any of his minions left.  
 

I have no idea what will happen.  
 

The odds are he will screw it up.

 

But there is no evidence he has interfered with Ron yet.  
 

Maybe he will.  He probably will.  
 

But since it hasn’t happens yet the future is unknown.  
 

The other thing is, he doesn’t have a Vinny or Bruce in the building anymore.  All the FO guys are brought in by Ron.  The whole organization is Ron centric.  It makes interfering harder.  

Dan will get bored with Ron and want to be the one making the key decisions. It’s only a matter of time before Dan decides ; he doesn’t want the coach centric model anymore and wants to return to the Dan centric model.

 

If the nfl whitewashes the current investigation as expected; Dan will be in the clear.

Edited May 30, 2022 by 88Comrade2000

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Dan will get bored with Ron and want to be the one making the key decisions. It’s only a matter of time before Dan decides ; he doesn’t want the coach centric model anymore and wants to return to the Dan centric model.

 

 

Pretty much.

 

He doesn't set up the FO correctly, ever (because he wants it easy to tinker with his toys?). Then when this coach with too much to juggle fails to win a SB, just like all the other coaches before him, he's going to start making suggestions, if he hasn't been doing it the entire time. Or they get "close" and he thinks he knows the answer and nobody can tell the asshole no. 

 

For instance, not signing McLaurin then watching his price skyrocket kind of reeks of previous deals with Cousins, Desean Jackson, Sherff, etc. (Of course that was all Bruce, right?)  Now RR is saying that we always do it that way, as if this isn't surprisingly similar to exactly the way "Bruce" did it before him. Other teams just sign the dude as soon as they can usually before teams reset the market, Washington though, so many times, waits and waits, then sometimes it blows up in their faces. That's not a Dan theme though?

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You don’t know that.  

 

It’s probable.  But if they are consistently winning, he might just stick to what works.  

 

But when has his team ever been consistently winning?

 

Another year or two and the Benny Hill music starts up once again, if it hasn't already and we just don't hear it yet.

 

It'll get really interesting if somehow the Wentz thing works out, the defense finally plays like it should, and this team wins 11-12 games. If they start going all Dream Team the following year I wonder whose idea that would be?

 

And hell, the Rams have been doing that exact thing and it worked! Why not here too? 

 

 

 

[Zim489]

 

[skinzplay]

NFL Security is very, very effective. The source of the email leaks wasn't 345 Park Avenue. Timing of those releases fit a pattern we've seen before.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

On 5/29/2022 at 12:24 PM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

The fans would come back if the team was consistently winning.

 

but…

 

That’s never going to happen as long as Dan is the owner.

 

Never.

 

NEVER. You can use caps.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On 5/29/2022 at 12:58 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

And you're not gone.  I don't believe any poster on here who posts a lot is "gone."  We might all be a lot of things, but we're still here, aching for a winner because we know just how ****ing amazing it can be.  

 

Yeah, they have to hook a new group of fans because there's a generation or two between the crowd that was here for the glory years and now that aren't into this team.  It's been talked about on here for years how kids growing up in this area are Ravens fans if they're in Maryland or they like some other team that's not the Skins/Commanders.  I don't think the rebrand and a successful team is going to win over many of the people who haven't been paying too close attention over the past 20 years.  Sure, you'll get some bandwagoners, but the diehards?  Not likely.  The 56 year old guy wearing a Riggo jersey isn't going anywhere no matter what.  To my prior points about the 2005 team and the RG3 team, if you were in your 30s then, you're in your 40s or 50s now and, most likely, life priorities have shifted.  It's hard to make this franchise a priority when they're constantly ****.

 

 

But my point is that many people are "gone" now and will stay "gone" regardless of results. I am gone, as is a huge chunk of the historical fan base, based on the definition I used. Not completely ignoring the existence of the team, but unable or unwilling to ever care as much. That's why I defined it that way. That's also what they should care about. Having a large group of people still paying attention but not really actively caring or rooting for the team doesn't really serve a purpose. 

[Zim489]

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

A bit confusing on the wording between the headline and in the paragraphs

 

headline, it says “invites” them. An invitation can be turned down. 
 

in the actual paragraphs, it says it’s “requesting” them. A request, you can’t really turn down, can you? Without a consequence at least. 
 

just trying to understand if this is something they HAVE to do or something they can say no to, and if they do say no, what the punishment is. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993

[FLSkinz83]

Snyder should tell them he'll answer all questions if they give us RFK.  

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

Neither one of them will show up. They will force Congress to subpoena them...and even then, they may not show up.

[86 Snyder]

11 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Snyder should tell them he'll answer all questions if they give us RFK.  

[CommanderInTheRye]

On 5/30/2022 at 7:32 PM, skinzplay said:

NFL Security is very, very effective. The source of the email leaks wasn't 345 Park Avenue. Timing of those releases fit a pattern we've seen before.

 

 

That's what we call in the journalism business a super tease.

 

"You tickled my interest big boy. Now it's time to give the rest to me so we can get to the bottom of "this thing"." Mae West

 

Note for those that didn't know: According to her autobiography "This thing" was Mae West's pet name for her intimate parts.

 

.

Edited June 1, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[88Comrade2000]

Those hoping Bezos owns the team might be disappointed.  He's giving thought to run for president in 24.

[FrFan]