2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mudhog]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I probably rely too much on beat reporters gossip from their conversations with FO sources.  It's not always right but often it is.  So I get a bit fixated on what I hear but its hard for me to resist.   I recall before the 2018 draft we kept hearing DT/RB early and that's what ended up happening.  Before 2019, Doug kept telegraphing QB is on the table in the first, JLC among others leaked they wanted Haskins.  That went down, too.   

 

The current narrative might change. Like 2018, I think BPA and need merge close enough.  So they might not feel they are reaching to meet needs.  I hear most teams don't finish their board until 2 weeks out.  But I get the heavy vibe at the moment that they are going LT or LB in round 1 with a leaning towards LT.  One reporter said they'd like to trade down if they can in the first.  Another said they'd likely stay at 19 if one of the top 4 O lineman lands there otherwise might take another spot. 

 

The 2nd round could be the spot they miss out on the first among LT or LB or they might feel its the right spot for a TE.  Third round a QB if one they like falls, and whatever position they missed out on earlier.

 

In short, I get the vibe that the game plan ideally from the first through the third is to nail a LT, LB, TE, QB somehow, someway.  I am sure it won't fall that neatly but I get the vibe that it might be the thinking now. 

 

I'd be surprised if they went with a corner in the first.  They paid two corners decent money who are under contract.  And Rivera typically doesn't pay corners big or value them the way some other teams do.  He and Hurney and Mayhew seemed to stress to death of late build the trenches.  You never know.  But between that mindset and Farely's injury I'd be surprised if that's what they do.   It wouldn't shock me if they doubled up on the O line in this draft, maybe LB too?  And used the later rounds to add depth including the secondary.

 

Keim said between FA and the draft what's seriously on the table from what he heard is:  LT, LB, FS, TE.  Also depth at RB, a WR preferably a big one, a QB if the right one falls.  Will see.  

I know that Farley back issues might make him fall past top 20, and that means an extra team bay be in the OL hunt before us. If that causes us to lose out on OL, but one of Horn or Surtain fall to 19, do you grab them? or try to trade back 8 to 10 spots to grab Davis before NO or Baltimore?

[Skinsinparadise]

The Athletic

 

 

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

As you know, I’ve been saying for a year that AVT is purely a guard. If you draft him it’s as an answer at guard. He has no business at tackle and honestly it’s wasting him to put him there when he could be an all-pro guard.

 

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think our takes are in line on AVT for the most part. 
 

I don’t want him at 19 unless every other possible choice is taken and leaves him as the true BPA. But I think, and I’d have to count, there are more than 18 dudes I’d take over him.

So just to follow up:

 

Lawrence

Fields

Lance

Wilson

Chase

Smith

Waddle

Sewell

Slater

Darrisaw

Pitts

Harris

Jamin

Moehrig

JOK

Zaven

Horn

Surtain

Farley

Barmore (yes, he would be redundant... for now)

 

Close in consideration:

 

Jenkins

Mac

 

And I’m sure I’m forgetting someone.

 

[clskinsfan]

Teven Jenkins on NFLN right now. Dude is a good interview. Talking about his nasty streak. Says he is a RT but wont shy away from the left if that is where a team wants him. Been working left side all offseason to get his muscle memory back on the left side. 

 

His mother passed from breast cancer when he was younger. Has a big tat on his arm to honor her. Says he plays to make her proud while she watches down on him. His mom must have loved pancake blocks.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by clskinsfan

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I agree.  I think a good blitzer like McGrone or Owusu-Koromoah would be be big for the defense because multiple sources of pressure have cumulative benefit.  We've got this special DL full of playmakers and I want to facilitate their ability to make those special plays, which means getting corners who can excel in various man coverages, and getting LBers who can blitz.

 

Well, and also building a good offense that can put points on the board and force opponents to pass.

 

I thought Khaleke looked like a good blitzer at Michigan, and I'm hoping he gets more run this year and demonstrates a talent for blitzing.  I think it's an important part of playing a truly dominant defense too, as just vanilla zone coverages with four man pressures is what you do when your back end sucks and it's just too easy for an offense to figure out.  We've got William Jackson and maybe we get someone like Surtain at 19 or Hufanga/Jamar Johnson/Damar Hamlin later on and our secondary can hold its own and let us do a lot more with our linebackers.  Or maybe we get Owusu-Koromoah at 19 and now we've got a LBer who can also play nickel corner and now you've truly got a lot of freedom of pressure and coverage design in personnel packages that look like a base D.

I was thinking about Hudson this morning and diving into him a bit more to refresh my perspective.  He does a lot of things that would translate really well to the WILL spot - he’s a playmaker in terms of getting into the backfield vs run and pass.  He’s got the speed to be a threat at the LOS, and to carry TEs down the seam as well as play sideline to sideline.  He’s strong (30 reps) and plenty fast.  Plays like a ball of energy too - he can be a catalyst in that regard - has a nonstop motor.  I’m sure he can use polish, but playing that Viper role would seem to translate well to WILL.

He had one game he played a lot for us and acquitted himself quite well - pass defensed, big TFL, and some good run stops for 3 or fewer yards.  I’m looking forward to seeing him progress this year.

 

My concern with him is his man coverage - you can see him get handsy because he loses a step on the breaks.  I saw some analysts say they think it’s because he lacks quickness (which matches up with relatively poor scores on the explosion drills), but I think 1) he’s quick enough, and 2) a lot of that can be mitigated with NFL experience - getting used to routes/depths and cleaning up his footwork.  I think he’s got the football IQ to improve in that area.  If we move toward more man coverage, his issues there could hold him back.  I do envision him taking a lot more snaps this year - though that’ll depend on if we get a high end backer in the draft.

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

If we traded 19 and 74 and our 5th to move up to 13 and take Justin Fields or Trey Lance (if they fall, which I have a hard time seeing but have seen a couple of instances in mocks)....

 

How "ok" would you be with loading up the offense in the draft around the rookie QB (and Fitz this year) and using post-draft FA to sign some guys?

 

If I told you we could leave the draft with Justin Fields, Alex Leatherwood, Trey Smith and Rhamondre Stephenson with picks 1,2,3,4 ... idk about you but I'd be pretty excited. Take some pass-rush/LB fliers in the 7th ... but otherwise I think you turn to FA and bring back Ryan Kerrigan for another year ... Tre Boston to be FS ... and take a flier on a KJ Wright or another FA LB out there to try and fill the holes a bit. But then you could really turn your attention to re-stocking the defense across the board in the 2022 draft with the entire slate of picks and presumably your QB (Fields) and an entire OL of youth (Leatherwood, Smith, Charles, Ismael)

 

In this scenario ... your OL of the future is either Leatherwood - Smith - Roullier - Scherff - Charles or Leatherwood - Charles - Roullier - Smith - Moses depending on where Charles shakes out and what happens with Scherff (if we draft OT and IOL early in this draft, the writing is on the wall IMO). And that $$ could go to Allen/Payne instead of Scherff, freeing up some additional money and/or picks to restock LB, TE, etc. in the draft next year.

 

*I ask because I just executed this on TDN by trading up with Minny with a sliding FIelds. Then decided to pass on Cox for Leatherwood, and went Trey Smith over Pete Werner. And then in the 4th instead of going for a DE or LB reach there, I hammered at RB to really stock up the talent on offense. If the FIelds pick is a hit and Leatherwood/Smith can deliver as solid LT/OG in the future you can more than make up for that with a weakness at LB. But was curious what others would think.

Edited April 6, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Est.1974]

I’m struggling to see any of the top three tackles get to our pick. I wouldn’t be against a slight trade up for a LT if we felt the player had true franchise LT potential. Or I would still entertain a trade for Orlando Brown.

[clskinsfan]

DJ's most recent mock has Fields going to Detroit at 7. If he really is going to fall to 7 I would hope we put a call in to Miami and find out the price to get up to 6. I am not willing to trade future picks for Lance. But I might be willing to for Fields. At least he has 2 full years of productive tape on record. He is not a one year wonder. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

18 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I’m struggling to see any of the top three tackles get to our pick. I wouldn’t be against a slight trade up for a LT if we felt the player had true franchise LT potential. Or I would still entertain a trade for Orlando Brown.

idk. Brown was solid at LT last year. But you’re gonna have to trade a pick AND pay a premium. I’d rather take a shot on a guy at 19 or 51 to be on a rookie deal. Trading for Brown and paying him $18m a year would wipe out our cap too. Just use the picks to build young cheap talent. 

[Dark Acre]

It might be wise to listen to Rosenfels.  He is sage.  

 

My take on the 9'ers is that they want Mac Jones but not at 3.  However, as the draft order shakes out at draft time, they will be in position to trade down to where they think they can comfortably get him while recouping draft capital.  Teams tend to overpay when trading up during the draft so with only Lawrence and whichever long snapper the Jets take at #2 (we're talking about the J-E-T-S after all) being gone, SF will reliably know how far down they can trade, perhaps even make multiple short trades for future picks (which are easier to accumulate).  The guys running that team aren't stupid.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, GothSkinsFan said:

It might be wise to listen to Rosenfels.  He is sage.  

 

My take on the 9'ers is that they want Mac Jones but not at 3.  However, as the draft order shakes out at draft time, they will be in position to trade down to where they think they can comfortably get him while recouping draft capital.  Teams tend to overpay when trading up during the draft so with only Lawrence and whichever long snapper the Jets take at #2 (we're talking about the J-E-T-S after all) being gone, SF will reliably know how far down they can trade, perhaps even make multiple short trades for future picks (which are easier to accumulate).  The guys running that team aren't stupid.

I doubt they trade down right after trading up. I think thats an overly complicated way of looking at things. Occam's razor: they want one of the top 3 QBs and don't care who is there at 3 they'll take who they think is the best of what's left and were willing to pay a premium to secure that.

 

If their plan was to trade down after trading so much to move up, they were better off just waiting till draft day or closer to draft day to trade.

[drowland]

19 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

It might be wise to listen to Rosenfels.  He is sage.  

 

My take on the 9'ers is that they want Mac Jones but not at 3.  However, as the draft order shakes out at draft time, they will be in position to trade down to where they think they can comfortably get him while recouping draft capital.  Teams tend to overpay when trading up during the draft so with only Lawrence and whichever long snapper the Jets take at #2 (we're talking about the J-E-T-S after all) being gone, SF will reliably know how far down they can trade, perhaps even make multiple short trades for future picks (which are easier to accumulate).  The guys running that team aren't stupid.

 

I've seen teams trade down and then trade back up but I can't recall a team trading up and then turning around and trading down.

 

[mistertim]

50 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

DJ's most recent mock has Fields going to Detroit at 7. If he really is going to fall to 7 I would hope we put a call in to Miami and find out the price to get up to 6. I am not willing to trade future picks for Lance. But I might be willing to for Fields. At least he has 2 full years of productive tape on record. He is not a one year wonder. 

 

I dunno. I have a hard time seeing Miami trade back down again. They gave up a future 1st to get back up to 6 from 12 so I'd assume they have 2-3 guys in mind that they want at 6 but who they believe are unlikely to be there at 12. Meaning that trading all the way down to 19 would only happen if we offered them an absolute king's ransom to make it worth it for them pass up on their targets at 6.

[seantaylor=god]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

If we traded 19 and 74 and our 5th to move up to 13 and take Justin Fields or Trey Lance (if they fall, which I have a hard time seeing but have seen a couple of instances in mocks)....

 

How "ok" would you be with loading up the offense in the draft around the rookie QB (and Fitz this year) and using post-draft FA to sign some guys?

 

If I told you we could leave the draft with Justin Fields, Alex Leatherwood, Trey Smith and Rhamondre Stephenson with picks 1,2,3,4 ... idk about you but I'd be pretty excited. Take some pass-rush/LB fliers in the 7th ... but otherwise I think you turn to FA and bring back Ryan Kerrigan for another year ... Tre Boston to be FS ... and take a flier on a KJ Wright or another FA LB out there to try and fill the holes a bit. But then you could really turn your attention to re-stocking the defense across the board in the 2022 draft with the entire slate of picks and presumably your QB (Fields) and an entire OL of youth (Leatherwood, Smith, Charles, Ismael)

 

In this scenario ... your OL of the future is either Leatherwood - Smith - Roullier - Scherff - Charles or Leatherwood - Charles - Roullier - Smith - Moses depending on where Charles shakes out and what happens with Scherff (if we draft OT and IOL early in this draft, the writing is on the wall IMO). And that $$ could go to Allen/Payne instead of Scherff, freeing up some additional money and/or picks to restock LB, TE, etc. in the draft next year.

 

*I ask because I just executed this on TDN by trading up with Minny with a sliding FIelds. Then decided to pass on Cox for Leatherwood, and went Trey Smith over Pete Werner. And then in the 4th instead of going for a DE or LB reach there, I hammered at RB to really stock up the talent on offense. If the FIelds pick is a hit and Leatherwood/Smith can deliver as solid LT/OG in the future you can more than make up for that with a weakness at LB. But was curious what others would think.

I like it, because I like Fields. If we can get Fields with only giving up a future first and a 5th, I’m totally down. We aren’t likely to find a starter level QB with our mid first round pick next year, and that gives us a year to develop him while we play Fitz.

 

Our second rounder would be a prime spot for one of the OTs that slips like Leatherwood or Eichenberg, or a OG.

 

Based on the mocks I’m running, our choices at 19 are not great. Basically, if my choices are a solid OG/RT or a ILB at 19, I’d rather take care of the QB need.

[HigSkin]

Think I'll put this in here since it mentions Bateman.

 

 

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I like it, because I like Fields. If we can get Fields with only giving up a future first and a 5th, I’m totally down. We aren’t likely to find a starter level QB with our mid first round pick next year, and that gives us a year to develop him while we play Fitz.

 

Our second rounder would be a prime spot for one of the OTs that slips like Leatherwood or Eichenberg, or a OG.

 

Based on the mocks I’m running, our choices at 19 are not great. Basically, if my choices are a solid OG/RT or a ILB at 19, I’d rather take care of the QB need.

 

Not sure how I feel about Leatherwood. I'd probably be fine with him in the 2nd. His RAS and measureables are outstanding but I keep remembering his 1v1s during Senior Bowl practice and overall it wasn't good. He had some ok reps but also got smoked by speed rushers pretty badly. Seemed like he was lunging at them too much and his feet just weren't fast enough to deal with them.

 

Obviously that's not the end-all-be-all but he was also playing on an absolutely stacked team which can also hide in-game mistakes or shortcomings too.

 

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

idk. Brown was solid at LT last year. But you’re gonna have to trade a pick AND pay a premium. I’d rather take a shot on a guy at 19 or 51 to be on a rookie deal. Trading for Brown and paying him $18m a year would wipe out our cap too. Just use the picks to build young cheap talent. 

trade for Brown, ship out Brandon Scherff, plug in a guard.

 

all a wash perhaps this year, but not if Scherff won’t sign a LTD.

Edited April 6, 2021 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[Skinsinparadise]

My take on smoking out the Vera-Tucker tackle stuff has nothing to do with anyone's take here.   It's the take below seems borderline conventional wisdom from mock drafters which is a variation of he's a better guard but would be a good LT, too so you get two for the price of one where you have position flexibility with him. 

 

I keep reading takes like that ala Jermiah below so it compelled me to watch him again.  And my take on that is BS, I don't think he'd be a good tackle but just a better guard.  I think he'd be a good to very good guard and a poor tackle. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

 

FTR, GhostofAlvinWalton is one of my favorite moniker's ever. His flagged hit against Elway in the Super Bowl Video for XXII remains one of my favorite Redskins moments ever. 

6 hours ago, Panninho said:

 

 

If that happens, that will be the first time in forever that I will have not wished to have listened to my older brother, and become a redskins fan while growing up in the bay area circa 1979. I can't think of anything worse than trading the house, selling everything to move up, and then just take the wrong guy, like this is Mitchell Trubisky, Blaine Gabbert top 10, Blake Bortles top 2 level stupidity. 

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was just going to ask you about this.  Next to you, I am probably the biggest Fields fan here. It's really tempting for me. 

 

I don't think its as crazy as I once did about having a shot at him in a trade up.   The thing that worried me the most were all the rumors that Carolina will trade picks like a drunken sailor to move up in the draft if need be.  Assuming they are out of the derby.  It might not be that crazy that they can pull it off here if its true that SF takes Mac Jones.  

I'd add the kicker would be Denver trading for Bridgewater if that happened.  That would likely get both Denver and Carolina out of the way. 

 

 

 

Yep, I'm stunned. I can't believe how stupid teams are being about Fields and even Lance, but when you look back, over the past 10+ years we've seen teams trade the farm for some very suspect QB prospects, dial it back to '11 and it's even worse in terms of at slot QB drafting, and trade ups. Bortles, Gabbert, the entire '11 class really other than Cam, Goff and Wentz on need rather than talent for 1 and 2, Trubisky over Mahomes, and Watson, Danny Dimes top 6 overall, Tua and Herbert falling past us last year etc. Just a ton of absolute grand mal stupidity. 

 

Now we got even more. It's wild. 

 

I'm afraid we won't do the trade up, really afraid, because we absolutely should sell evertyhing to move up to get Fields/Lance if they are available at 4 or lower, period, no second thoughts whatsoever (w/Fields the primary target). Next years QB class sucks, we don't get him this year, unless we go 0-16 and you have a Cam in '16, Mahomes in '17, Kyler not going to baseball type scenario, we're kinda screwed for years plural at the position.

 

I don't understand why Carolina did that other than maybe they felt they couldn't get their true target because the Niners and someone else are/is taking them. Maybe Carolina was dead set on a guy and the intel is 100% they can't get him, they can move up to Atlanta's pick etc (which btw, is incredibly stupid, if Atlanta has a swindle deal in place w/Carolina, they should pull the trigger, Matt Ryan could be good for another 2-5 years, and then they could implode for a QB after that).

 

really confused with what's going on. I do think what Carolina might do is trade Bridgewater to recoup assets for a trade up? But w/o a trade, and Bridgewater is making lots of money, they don't really have the picks to make the deal anymore. 

 

I also, as a Darnold, kind of fan, found the compensation insane. Guy had a 1+1 left on his rookie deal. I can't understand why anyone would pay that much for a guy who has to get paid his rookie option that soon, when you don't even know if he has a chance to avoid being a bust. Regardless though, this will be the first time he's ever played for a competent offense and a competent offensive coach. It would not shock me at all if he's league average or better next year. McCaffrey, DJ Moore, Robby Anderson, David Moore, and Ian Thomas? That's a legit collection of weapons. Not sure how strong their OL is. But yeah, all those picks? For once the Jets actually won a trade, at least temporarily (if he hits, they'll look mighty stupid, especially since they're bound and determined to take the QB4 at QB2). 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I don't understand why Carolina did that other than maybe they felt they couldn't get their true target because the Niners and someone else are/is taking them. Maybe Carolina was dead set on a guy and the intel is 100% they can't get him, they can move up to Atlanta's pick etc (which btw, is incredibly stupid, if Atlanta has a swindle deal in place w/Carolina, they should pull the trigger, Matt Ryan could be good for another 2-5 years, and then they could implode for a QB after that).

 

Some speculate that Atlanta didn't want make a big trade like that within their own division. 

[Dark Acre]

40 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

If that happens, that will be the first time in forever that I will have not wished to have listened to my older brother, and become a redskins fan while growing up in the bay area circa 1979. 

Could be worse - I listened to my father convince me to sell my entire football card collection in 1982 for $25.  Montana....

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

PFF's take on the roster

 

 

Two takes from this post:

Bostic continues to show the team weakness regardless of what lip service RR gives about believing in him

WTF earns an A drafting Defense and an F drafting offense in the 1st

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kahlil Herbert, RB, watched him some, I really dig him as a 4th-5th round type of he drops that far.   I think he'd be a good all purpose type back that would complement Gibson well. 

 

Pros:

He has a low center of cravity, really good contact balance. 

I looked up his stats and PFF scores.  He has some sick numbers on those counts.   

Breaks tackles

Has breakaway speed -- if he has daylight and he has room to pick up a gear he can go all the way -- he's a pick up speed as he goes type

Looks to have good vision, finds creases

 

Cons

Wasn't used much as a pass catcher

OK pass blocker but he can get run over

Takes a bit to hit full speed

Has some stop and go to his game but not special on that front like lets say Michael Carter

V Tech really opened up some monster holes for him in their zone scheme, did that inflate his game some?

 

His speed numbers were good, agility numbers not but I am fine with those scores for a mid-rounder type. 

Posted a couple times on Herbert. He would be a nice 5th round addition to the RB group and give us a kick returner, that is his bonus

 

He and Darrisaw can hang together when WFT drafts both!

Edited April 6, 2021 by DWinzit

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Two takes from this post:

Bostic continues to show the team weakness regardless of what lip service RR gives about believing in him

WTF earns an A drafting Defense and an F drafting offense in the 1st

 

I'm a bit confused by the Below Average grade for Holcomb. How is Payne Average with an overall grade of 68.2 last season but Holcolmb is Below Average with an overall grade of 72.0 last season?

 

Agree that Bostic is doodoo though.