2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Some talk here on LB formations so I figure I'd throw some on here.

 

First one nickle.  Then some 3 linebacker sets.  Then I show some double A blitzes, a blitz where Holcomb is stacked behind a D lineman and then rushes.  I saw the posts about who cares if our linebackers can rush.  I get the mindset which is its not the foremost requirement for a linebacker.  Coverage and stopping the run is indeed more important.  But its also IMO not a meaningless shrug your shoulders skill either.   

 

Del Rio likes to use the linebackers in blitz packages.  It may feel "meh" to some because our linebackers aren't good at getting home.  But look at a dude like Devin White (11.5 sacks) for Tampa.  Many say he's a key cog to their defense specifically because his real threat in blitzes and makes their pass rush more dangerous because you have to pick your poison, you might need to keep your RB back versus help chip the edge rusher, etc.  When Daniel Jones sees Cole Holcomb coming at him, I'd bet he has no fear.  But if Jamin Davis or Zaven Collins comes at him, it might be a different story.  

 

We have a good defense but it was beaten pretty good by some of the better offenses in the league.    Having a defense that can create havoc on multiple fronts wouldn't hurt.  I know we got other problems on defense and pass rush is our strength.   But we didn't lead the league in sacks.  And from what I saw against Tampa they handled our pass rush fine.  So while pass rush isn't my top desire in our linebackers.  I actually like that in the tool box.  

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some talk here on LB formations so I figure I'd throw some on here.

 

First one nickle.  Then some 3 linebacker sets.  Then I show some double A blitzes, a blitz where Holcomb is stacked behind a D lineman and then rushes.  I saw the posts about who cares if our linebackers can rush.  I get the mindset which is its not the foremost requirement for a linebacker.  Coverage and stopping the run is indeed more important.  But its also IMO not a meaningless shrug your shoulders skill either.   

 

Del Rio likes to use the linebackers in blitz packages.  It may feel "meh" to some because our linebackers aren't good at getting home.  But look at a dude like Devin White (11.5 sacks) for Tampa.  Many say he's a key cog to their defense specifically because his real threat in blitzes and makes their pass rush more dangerous because you have to pick your poison, you might need to keep your RB back versus help chip the edge rusher, etc.  When Daniel Jones sees Cole Holcomb coming at him, I'd bet he has no fear.  But if Jamin Davis or Zaven Collins comes at him, it might be a different story.  

 

We have a good defense but it was beaten pretty good by some of the better offenses in the league.    Having a defense that can create havoc on multiple fronts wouldn't hurt.  I know we got other problems on defense and pass rush is our strength.   But we didn't lead the league in sacks.  And from what I saw against Tampa they handled our pass rush fine.  So while pass rush isn't my top desire in our linebackers.  I actually like that in the tool box.  

 

 

 

Imo, the LBs who are aggressive and downhill against the run are generally also good blitzers.

[DWinzit]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Del Rio likes to use the linebackers in blitz packages.  It may feel "meh" to some because our linebackers aren't good at getting home.  But look at a dude like Devin White (11.5 sacks) for Tampa.  Many say he's a key cog to their defense specifically because his real threat in blitzes and makes their pass rush more dangerous because you have to pick your poison.  When Daniel Jones sees Cole Holcomb coming at him, I'd bet he has no fear.  But if Jamin Davis or Zaven Collins comes at him, it might be a different story.  

It's a shame Milano and David never hit the market and landed in DC

It would be awesome to end out with Jamin or Zaven. The cost however would more than likely be a late 1st. That would remove the idea of an LT until the second round.

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I think he is the one that has the same highlight reel as Mills, doesn’t he 

[Skinsinparadise]

Some more.  First two shows how clean of a pocket Brady often had but not always in that game.

 

The next 4 shows the sequence of getting gashed by a screen.  And that was Fournette running it -- imagine a dude like Barkley who tends to destory us on screens and outside zone.   Look at all the space available -- lol any one of us could probably get 20 yards on that play.  I segmented that play because from my memory we get gashed too much on outside zone and quick screens. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Imo, the LBs who are aggressive and downhill against the run are generally also good blitzers.

 

Often true I agree.  Some of those linebackers are good at blowing up runs in their tracks which often involves penetrating or circumventing the O line -- same skills as rushing the passer.   Landon Collins (although a SS) for his faults as a player, has his moments on that front as to blowing up runs, and he's not a bad blitzer.

 

I recall Gregg Williams loved his corner blitzes.  Del Rio seems to like using his linebackers on blitzes.   But they aren't really good at it.  Nor are they good at blowing up runs.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[tmandoug1]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yep.....he has some good speed and great hands.

[DWinzit]

As far as I know WFT still does not have a long snapper and they are hard to come by. There are a couple in the draft, do they burn a 7th on one?

 

I can see them trying to add a 6th or 7th rounder with a trade back.

[Skinsinparadise]

Imagine instead of having a LB who brings some pass rush in the mix of their tools stacked behind Chase Young.  I think part of the yawn vibe about so what if we did i think is driven by we have linebackers who don't bring it home so the exercise feels meaningless but it doesn't have to be.   Del Rio tries and tries and tries and tries to use his backers to aide the pass rush.  Imagine if we had a dude who actually get it done. 

 

Yeah of course its not the top tool needed in the tool box.   But having a guy who can blow up plays in their tracks and can actually make these blitzes have actual meaning -- could help. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

As far as I know WFT still does not have a long snapper and they are hard to come by. There are a couple in the draft, do they burn a 7th on one?

 

I can see them trying to add a 6th or 7th rounder with a trade back.

They went to see one didn’t they, Cole Jenkins or something like that, Buffalo State. He’s on my draft watch list, none of this boring LB and LT nonesense. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Cooley rave about Pitts makes me sad. 😢  He goes he hasn't seen a dude like this.  He thinks Atlanta will take Pitts, he doesn't see how they can go Qb over Pitts, he thinks Pitts is that good.  I don't think I've ever heard Cooley gush this much about a player. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

They went to see one didn’t they, Cole Jenkins or something like that, Buffalo State. He’s on my draft watch list, none of this boring LB and LT nonesense. 

I know Cheeseman from Michigan and Fletcher from Bama were two names thrown around. 

I do recall them shuffling to off to Buffalo to check one out

 

[Est.1974]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Cooley rave about Pitts makes me sad. 😢  He goes he hasn't seen a dude like this.  He thinks Atlanta will take Pitts, he doesn't see how they can go Qb over Pitts, he thinks Pitts is that good.  I don't think I've ever heard Cooley gush this much about a player. 

I know rookie contracts are small in context to how they used to be, but still, the #4 pick will lift a 20mil plus SB and get in excess of 30mil fully guaranteed. 
 

If you invest that on a player like Lance, you have to be fairly sure that he’s going to work out, or has enough about him to give it a damn good shot. Therefore, a player like Pitt’s becomes the no-brainer type selection. Almost sure fire non-QB prospect.

 

They may still move out of #4 for the reason of adding picks and saving cash/cap given they are in a very tight spot for a couple of seasons. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[duffy]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Cooley rave about Pitts makes me sad. 😢  He goes he hasn't seen a dude like this.  He thinks Atlanta will take Pitts, he doesn't see how they can go Qb over Pitts, he thinks Pitts is that good.  I don't think I've ever heard Cooley gush this much about a player. 

Have you heard him say anything about the Chilean guy, Sammis Reyes? He's technically an international FA so I posted some links in the FA thread:

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

I keep circling back around to Caleb Farley. I think he definitely falls. Chris Simms compared him to a Jalen Ramsey in terms of size and athleticism. What if he really does turn into a Jalen Ramsey? It’s so hard to odd on that. Let’s say Teven Jenkins is going to be a Jack Conklin. Ramsey >>> Conklin. It’s so hard to look at Farley and factor in the injury, and know what to do. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

14 minutes ago, duffy said:

Have you heard him say anything about the Chilean guy, Sammis Reyes? He's technically an international FA so I posted some links in the FA thread:

 

 

 

Not yet.  I think he's about to dive into grading draft prospects though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I keep circling back around to Caleb Farley. I think he definitely falls. Chris Simms compared him to a Jalen Ramsey in terms of size and athleticism. What if he really does turn into a Jalen Ramsey? It’s so hard to odd on that. Let’s say Teven Jenkins is going to be a Jack Conklin. Ramsey >>> Conklin. It’s so hard to look at Farley and factor in the injury, and know what to do. 

 

I probably rely too much on beat reporters gossip from their conversations with FO sources.  It's not always right but often it is.  So I get a bit fixated on what I hear but its hard for me to resist.   I recall before the 2018 draft we kept hearing DT/RB early and that's what ended up happening.  Before 2019, Doug kept telegraphing QB is on the table in the first, JLC among others leaked they wanted Haskins.  That went down, too.   

 

The current narrative might change. Like 2018, I think BPA and need merge close enough.  So they might not feel they are reaching to meet needs.  I hear most teams don't finish their board until 2 weeks out.  But I get the heavy vibe at the moment that they are going LT or LB in round 1 with a leaning towards LT.  One reporter said they'd like to trade down if they can in the first.  Another said they'd likely stay at 19 if one of the top 4 O lineman lands there otherwise might take another spot. 

 

The 2nd round could be the spot they miss out on the first among LT or LB or they might feel its the right spot for a TE.  Third round a QB if one they like falls, and whatever position they missed out on earlier.

 

In short, I get the vibe that the game plan ideally from the first through the third is to nail a LT, LB, TE, QB somehow, someway.  I am sure it won't fall that neatly but I get the vibe that it might be the thinking now. 

 

I'd be surprised if they went with a corner in the first.  They paid two corners decent money who are under contract.  And Rivera typically doesn't pay corners big or value them the way some other teams do.  He and Hurney and Mayhew seemed to stress to death of late build the trenches.  You never know.  But between that mindset and Farely's injury I'd be surprised if that's what they do.   It wouldn't shock me if they doubled up on the O line in this draft, maybe LB too?  And used the later rounds to add depth including the secondary.

 

Keim said between FA and the draft what's seriously on the table from what he heard is:  LT, LB, FS, TE.  Also depth at RB, a WR preferably a big one, a QB if the right one falls.  Will see.  

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

The other thing I'd add is I wonder if Carolina potentially out of the QB derby might make them more tempted to trade up for a QB.  The buzz was Carolina was willing to outbid to get their QB in this draft.  They have the much more valuable pick.     Denver might be the team that pushes it now.  But if Denver trades for Bridgewater, it makes the idea of the WFT outbidding a competiting team for a QB much more realistic than it did previously. 

 

 

 

wow, not hot for his draft stock obviously

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[duffy]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The other thing I'd add is I wonder if Carolina potentially out of the QB derby might make them more tempted to trade up for a QB.  The buzz was Carolina was willing to outbid to get their QB in this draft.  They have the much more valuable pick.     Denver might be the team that pushes it now.  But if Denver trades for Bridgewater, it makes the idea of the WFT outbidding a competiting team for a QB much more realistic than it did previously. 

 

 

 

wow, not hot for his draft stock obviously

 

 

 

Wow. That's a lot of red 

[actorguy1]

https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2021-nfl-mock-draft-3-0-49ers-go-all-in-on-mac-jones

MAC Jones to 49ers. Trey Lance to Falcons. Justin Fields to Lions. Vera-Tucker to WFT (over Darrisaw).

[Warhead36]

I'd stay away from Farley. I just don't like our history with injury prone players.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

What's up with Shaun Wade, CB Ohio State? Was one of the guys mentioned with Farley and Surtain pre-season as legit CB1s. Now he's going in the 3rd-4th in a lot of these mock simulators. Ohio State only played what, 6 games? For someone with a lot of pre-season draft pedigree (saw him in the Top 10-15 picks a lot) ... what happened in those 6 games to drop him down? Obviously we are talking media guys here not NFL execs and scouts, so he could end up going earlier. Just curious though.

 

I just did a trade up on TDN. Sent 19, 74, 2021 1st to Denver to draft Fields at 9. I used 51 on Leatherwood and 82 on Wade.

 

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

What's up with Shaun Wade, CB Ohio State? Was one of the guys mentioned with Farley and Surtain pre-season as legit CB1s. Now he's going in the 3rd-4th in a lot of these mock simulators. Ohio State only played what, 6 games? For someone with a lot of pre-season draft pedigree (saw him in the Top 10-15 picks a lot) ... what happened in those 6 games to drop him down? Obviously we are talking media guys here not NFL execs and scouts, so he could end up going earlier. Just curious though.

 

I just did a trade up on TDN. Sent 19, 74, 2021 1st to Denver to draft Fields at 9. I used 51 on Leatherwood and 82 on Wade.

 

 

 

Wade got worked all season long. He looked awful and slow all season long.

 

I think there's a tremendous upside value on Day 3 for him. Anything beyond that and you're taking a (possibly calculated) risk. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Wade got worked all season long. He looked awful and slow all season long.

 

I think there's a tremendous upside value on Day 3 for him. Anything beyond that and you're taking a (possibly calculated) risk. 

 

Fair. I think the calculated risk this year is even more interesting, because what if Wade had COVID before the season, wasn't able to be in the best shape, and it affected him during the season? If you draft him thinking you are getting the 2020 version (and I assume teams will know from medicals if this is the case) you could be getting a Top 10 talent for a 3rd or 4th rounder. My guess is if that's the case someone will take the gamble and draft him earlier than that.

[KDawg]

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Fair. I think the calculated risk this year is even more interesting, because what if Wade had COVID before the season, wasn't able to be in the best shape, and it affected him during the season? If you draft him thinking you are getting the 2020 version (and I assume teams will know from medicals if this is the case) you could be getting a Top 10 talent for a 3rd or 4th rounder. My guess is if that's the case someone will take the gamble and draft him earlier than that.

 

If he was on the board for our second third rounder I wouldn't hesitate.

 

I'd consider him at the first third round pick depending what else is on the board.

 

There's about a 5% chance I'd consider him in the second round... but you never know what's on the board.