2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[RWJ]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If the mock drafters are on the money, who knows if they are or not, no shot at Jamin at 51. 

So true.  It'd be nice if we traded our 2021 2nd for LT Orlando Brown and gave him a new contract then we could draft Jamis at #19.  That way we could plug both holes but would Baltimore accept a 2nd and even, let's say a 2022 4th rounder for Brown?  That the big ?

[HigSkin]

 

[Warhead36]

Surtain behind this front four? That would be ridiculous. No way I pass that up. I don't know much about Horn though and Farley's injury history has me worried.

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I actually would probably pull the trigger on Horn if he fell. He won’t fall. But I love the idea of two elite outside corners and one good interior corner behind our LB’s.

 

Honestly, our DL and that secondary could be a top 5 all time defense with a decent FSA and one LB addition. 
 

In any case, I don’t see Surtain or Horn falling. Especially now with Farley’s surgery. 
 

Kdawg, at the risk of sounding stupid, can you break down 4-3 and 4-2 LB coverage responsibilities in a man coverage scheme?

It obviously depends on the offensive formation and defensive call. But in a 4-3 base the SSLB is going to have TE responsibility in man coverage most of the time. The other backers will have RB responsibility depending on which side of the formation he is aligned.  4-2 that TE coverage would fall to the nickel corner usually. 4-2 LB would have RB responsibility as well. I am expecting a lot of cover 1 and cover 7 this year. Cover 7 being very similar to cover 1 but with the ability to change off responsibilities underneath. The best way to beat cover 1 and 7 is with deep routes. But the trade off of waiting for plays to develop for the offense is their QB is at severe risk to our DL. Kdawg is also correct that the run is a bigger challenge for the defense in the 4-2-5. You must have CB's that can attack and tackle. 

[Est.1974]

We could do with some draft risers, get a couple of extra players in the mix. Get Barmore off the board, an Edge. Maybe a RB. That would leave us sat nicely at #19.

[Fresh8686]

If Darrisaw is gone by 19 (which I think he will be) and we go with Jamin Davis in the first, I’d love to get Spencer Brown in the third. Him, Walker Little, D’ante Smith (and now Tommy Doyle) are some high upside late round OT’s I’ve got my eye on that I think our O-line coach could do some great things with. 
 

Wow, new RAS score, who dis?

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Fresh8686

[Fresh8686]

 

[DWinzit]

34 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Surtain behind this front four? That would be ridiculous. No way I pass that up. I don't know much about Horn though and Farley's injury history has me worried.

Surtain has been my top DB for a long time. If he was available at 19 he would be on my short list for sure!

21 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Kdawg is also correct that the run is a bigger challenge for the defense in the 4-2-5. You must have CB's that can attack and tackle. 

LB's need to attack and tackle too. Many of the LB's are not really attackers and if they are, are too slow to cover the ground required if in the 4-2

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I actually would probably pull the trigger on Horn if he fell. He won’t fall. But I love the idea of two elite outside corners and one good interior corner behind our LB’s.

 

Honestly, our DL and that secondary could be a top 5 all time defense with a decent FSA and one LB addition. 
 

In any case, I don’t see Surtain or Horn falling. Especially now with Farley’s surgery. 
 

Kdawg, at the risk of sounding stupid, can you break down 4-3 and 4-2 LB coverage responsibilities in a man coverage scheme?

 

 

It all depends what you're trying to accomplish.

 

If you want to leave a safety high with it:

 

4-3

Corners have #1 (guy furthest out on each side of the field). 

SS rolls down and has #2 to the strong side.

an OLB has #2 to the weak side. 

Mike/other OLB #3 depending which side they are on.

 

4-2

Corners have #1

Rolled down safeties/slot corners have #2

Inside backers have #3

 

If you want straight man it changes because if you're straight man you're probably blitzing. But that leaves you vulnerable over the top.

 

If you want straight man 

 

4-3

Corners #1, SS has 2 strong, FS has 2 weak, someone not blitzing has #3.

 

4-2

Corners #1, Safeties #2, ILB has #3.

 

That's very simplified. NFL defenses run some convoluted **** at times. But that's the basic run down. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by KDawg

[seantaylor=god]

I’ve been playing around with PFF mock draft and have been getting pretty brutal options at 19:

 

Christian Barmore DL

Trevon Moehrig

Rashod Bateman

Elijah Moore

Caleb Farley

Teven Jenkins

Walker Little

AVT

Zaven Collins

 

I’m out on Zaven at 19 based on his testing numbers, I don’t know if he’s a clear fit for us.

 

So, I’d probably go with AVT or Teven Jenkins with the plan to try both at OT but understand they probably will be OG.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

So, I’d probably go with AVT or Teven Jenkins with the plan to try both at OT but understand they probably will be OG.

 

Yep, I think this is where a combo of Jenkins + Cox (R2) or Jamin Davis + Alex Leatherwood become best outcomes for our 1-2 picks.

 

I also keep getting into scenarios where the BPA at 74 or 82 is an IOL, and it's really tempting to hit the OT-OG combo there and basically solidify the OL for years to come and not have to worry about losing Scherff next year or even necessarily spending a high pick to replace him.

 

Of course, Keith Ismael might be someone this staff envisions as a RG ... they might think Saahdiq Charles is a potential pro-bowl LG ... and thus not see any immediate need to add IOL behind Scherff and Schweizer. But it's still tempting as hell.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not as big of a fan of Peter Werner as @KDawg is.  But I'd be cool with him especially if its the early third round.

 

Just to bring home the athleticism point even more.  I talked aboout Jamin beating Zaven by a good margin in every category.  Heck Werner who gets slammed by some aas not having special athletcism also beat Zaven across the board:  Werner with better speed, strength and agility.     

 

Zaven is a good athlete for his size.  And I am not out on him as a player.  But for now, he's not my guy at 19. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I also hate trading around a bunch since it's not very realistic to what unfolds on draft day. But I keep getting tempted with offers of a 1+3 for #19 from either GB or Cleveland ... then trading from that pick into the mid-2nd for another 3rd. So I end up with something like 46 and 51 + 74, 82, 90, 94 in the 3rd and the 4th/5th that we already have. At that point, the plethora of 3's becomes a bit overkill, and I've traded 3/3/4 for a 2 ... giving me 2/2/2/3/3/5 ... and from there I can comfortably hit LT (Leatherwood), LB (Cox), TE (Friermuth), QB (Mills) with a 3+5 to spare (usually hitting IOL at the last 3rd) and a DE in the 5th.

 

Most recent on the TDN simulator was:

2: Alex Leatherwood, OT Alabama

2: Pat Friermuth, TE Penn State

2: Jabril Cox, LB LSU

3: Davis Mills, QB Stanford

3: Wyatt Davis, IOL Ohio State

5: Jonathan Cooper, DE Ohio State

Edited April 5, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

I will take my chances with an opposing offense only able to complete swings, flats or screens. Make them earn every single yard. 

 

Our defense seemed to be sliced at times by:

 

A.  Big plays in the secondary

B.  Outside zone running plays -- screens around or outside the numbers

 

The big play drill I've seen stats to show that.  Outside zone is me relying on memory but I'll wait until I see Warren Sharp's breakdown which he does every year to see if my memory is right or wrong on that front.

 

For that reason IMO I do think especially at Will-LB it would help to have a MLB with sideline to slide range and can tackle well in open field.  I gather you aren't big on Jamin Davis.  That's cool.  but IMO Jamin Davis fits this profile better than Zavin Collins. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

This is funny to me

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I’m not sure on the order/teams, but I think it’s more than likely the top 3 OT’s are off the board well before our pick. I’d say that Trent W. contract made some team’s think a rookie tackle, if in reach, is very appealing.

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Our defense seemed to be sliced at times by:

 

A.  Big plays in the secondary

B.  Outside zone running plays -- screens around or outside the numbers

 

The big play drill I've seen stats to show that.  Outside zone is me relying on memory but I'll wait until I see Warren Sharp's breakdown which he does every year to see if my memory is right or wrong on that front.

 

For that reason IMO I do think especially at Will-LB it would help to have a MLB with sideline to slide range and can tackle well in open field.  I gather you aren't big on Jamin Davis.  That's cool.  but IMO Jamin Davis fits this profile better than Zavin Collins. 

Yeah. Collins testing numbers were a bit of a red flag for me. I would be fine with Davis. But he is going to need some coaching IMO. I dont know if his instincts are all that great. But it would be easy enough to simplify his responsibility to get the most out of his athleticism as well. I am just glad we are not having to worry about filling ten holes on this roster anymore. Give me a LB and a TE in the draft and this roster is pretty complete. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

So with Darnold going to the Panthers, it does free up a QB to possibly slide down a bit more? Guess it really all depends on what the Falcons do at #2, and with all the talk that they're fielding trade-down offers I wouldn't be surprised if #4 ends up being a QB but a different team (Patriots?) .... If Mac Jones goes to SF at #3 then it really does open things up for Fields or Lance to slide down a bit. But how far? Does Denver pull the trigger on Fields or Lance if they are there at #9? Ben Albright who is a big insider in Denver (and nationally) does not think the Broncos are ready to give up on Lock yet. If they pass at #9 then that opens up the door for some sliding ... but again, Hard to see anyone in the NFC East trade with us so we can get our future QB. So probably a decent chance someone like Pittsburgh, New Orleans, or Chicago figures out a way to leapfrog up to take the sliding QB.

[KDawg]

I’m a tad confused why so many are so down on Zaven due to his 40 yard dash/testing.

 

Lavonte David ran a 4.65 but everyone loved the idea of snagging him. 
 

Vander Esch was a 4.65.

 

Blake Martinez 4.71.

 

Darius Leonard 4.7.

 

Danny Trevathan 4.75.

 

Jayon Brown 4.7.

 

Fred Warner 4.64.

 

Joe Schobert 4.76.

 

KJ Wright 4.75.

 

Luke Kuechly was faster: 4.58

 

Eric Kendricks 4.61.

 

I mean I can understand veering away because we are expecting to be more man to man. Jamin and even Werner are more appealing for that job. But zone? Some of these dudes are all-pros running very similar 40s. 
 

‘Tis the season that shorts makes you forget tape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mhd24]

Great, now I need my update my mock draft with Darnold going to Carolina.  The Panthers are taking online for sure

17 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

So with Darnold going to the Panthers, it does free up a QB to possibly slide down a bit more? Guess it really all depends on what the Falcons do at #2, and with all the talk that they're fielding trade-down offers I wouldn't be surprised if #4 ends up being a QB but a different team (Patriots?) .... If Mac Jones goes to SF at #3 then it really does open things up for Fields or Lance to slide down a bit. But how far? Does Denver pull the trigger on Fields or Lance if they are there at #9? Ben Albright who is a big insider in Denver (and nationally) does not think the Broncos are ready to give up on Lock yet. If they pass at #9 then that opens up the door for some sliding ... but again, Hard to see anyone in the NFC East trade with us so we can get our future QB. So probably a decent chance someone like Pittsburgh, New Orleans, or Chicago figures out a way to leapfrog up to take the sliding QB.

 

 

Yeah, Dallas, NYG, and Philly are not trading with us.  I can't see Denver bypassing QB (according to Michael Lombardi, they almost traded Drew Lock earlier in the off-season).  

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m a tad confused why so many are so down on Zaven due to his 40 yard dash/testing.

 

Lavonte David ran a 4.65 but everyone loved the idea of snagging him. 
 

Vander Esch was a 4.65.

 

Blake Martinez 4.71.

 

Darius Leonard 4.7.

 

Danny Trevathan 4.75.

 

Jayon Brown 4.7.

 

Fred Warner 4.64.

 

Joe Schobert 4.76.

 

KJ Wright 4.75.

 

Luke Kuechly was faster: 4.58

 

Eric Kendricks 4.61.

 

I mean I can understand veering away because we are expecting to be more man to man. Jamin and even Werner are more appealing for that job. But zone? Some of these dudes are all-pros running very similar 40s. 
 

‘Tis the season that shorts makes you forget tape.

 

And you forgot Werners abysmal 4,59

 

Let him drop!

Edited April 5, 2021 by DWinzit

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

Zaven is more of a zone backer. I think they’re going to play more man with Jackson now. So that is a consideration. It also makes me more nervous about our current backers.

 

Still some tricks to use a zone backer in a man set.  Like the Single High with a LB robber or something.  But yeah, I imagine we'd want more versatility in a LB if we spend a 1st rounder on one.

 

Can anyone remember the name of the Revis defense that Rex Ryan liked using?  That was basically Revis in Man on one side, and then Zone shifted towards the other side.  I don't know if Revis was "in zone" as well, but when he's playing straight up over the WR and there's no help coverage for him to steer the WR towards, it might as well be Man for all intents and purposes.

[KDawg]

Just now, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Still some tricks to use a zone backer in a man set.  Like the Single High with a LB robber or something.  But yeah, I imagine we'd want more versatility in a LB if we spend a 1st rounder on one.

 

Can anyone remember the name of the Revis defense that Rex Ryan liked using?  That was basically Revis in Man on one side, and then Zone shifted towards the other side.  I don't know if Revis was "in zone" as well, but when he's playing straight up over the WR and there's no help coverage for him to steer the WR towards, it might as well be Man for all intents and purposes.

There absolutely is. You just don’t want to have to scheme totally around a guy because it gives away what you’re doing by default. Having said that, I don’t think Zaven would be a huge issue in man.

 

But for a man scheme hes third on my list (not counting Parsons because I don’t know if he’s a clean prospect or not. If he is he’d be fourth)

 

In a zone scheme hes top 2.

 

In a hybrid scheme hes 2/3

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I mean I can understand veering away because we are expecting to be more man to man. Jamin and even Werner are more appealing for that job. But zone? Some of these dudes are all-pros running very similar 40s. 
 

‘Tis the season that shorts makes you forget tape.\

 

For me its the combination of speed and I don't think he's hot as a run stopper.  If I thought he was a polished stud, the 40 time wouldn't worry me.

 

IMO he's good in coverage.  He's a good pass rusher.  He's OK, nothing special, as a run stopper. 

 

 

 

 

Some seem to think Panthers now go O line.  If so I think it makes even less likely Darrisaw falls.  If the Giants and Minny are also leaning O line as some believe.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Skinsinparadise