2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

My God the Jets winning is madness. Utter madness. Should have been 0-16 at all costs.

[mhd24]

The Jets don't need a LT, so Sewell is out.  Beckton has been fantastic for them.  He's a future building block.  I don't see a team trading a bounty of picks to move up for Wilson or Fields.  They might be forced to take them.  Carolina is building slowly and have Teddy B as a vet stopgap.  They could sit pretty and take Fields/Wilson (Cincy takes Sewell no question) or Micah Parsons or Pitts/Chase/Smith.  Don't give up so many assets to move up.  

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Agreed, but this is where scarcity comes into the argument.  As big as Najee is, Pitts is 6'6.  That's such special size and you aren't likely to find that very often.  Certainly not in a guy as fast and fluid as Pitts.  But you can find guys like Antonio Gibson most years.

 

How is Pitts as a blocker? I haven't seen him play other than highlight reels but I'm wondering if he's a better version of Jordan Reed who will give us a weapon in passing but nothing in running. 

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Agreed, but this is where scarcity comes into the argument.  As big as Najee is, Pitts is 6'6.  That's such special size and you aren't likely to find that very often.  Certainly not in a guy as fast and fluid as Pitts.  But you can find guys like Antonio Gibson most years.

 

Running backs have the odd duality of being super valuable on the field in a real Xs and Os sense (second only to QB IMO), but not very valuable in a team building resources sense because of the lack of scarcity at the position.  I feel like that is starting to happen at WR too given how many good WR prospects are churning out of the college game.

 

 

Totally agree.  I do think taking RB in the late 1st brings real value though.  Nick Chubb was an early 2nd, but he's the best RB in that draft (much better than Barkley).  Taking a Nick Chubb (for example) in the 20s is no waste of resources.  

 

I'd be fine taking a RB, but I think in the end, its either QB (if one slips) or LT (Darrisow, Cosmi) if we win the division.  Those positions are too scarce, and we need a future LT.  Plus, positional value dictates taking those positions in the 1st.  LB is a MAJOR need.  Maybe we go the FA route?  I could see the Jets cutting CJ Mosely potentially considering he sat out the season and a new regime is coming in.  Joe Douglass didn't even sign him in FA.   

[Panninho]

College Football 2020: PFF's All-American Team

QUARTERBACK

First-Team: Mac Jones, Alabama

Jones enters the College Football Playoff as not just the highest-graded quarterback in college football this season but the highest-graded quarterback of the PFF College era.

The Bama signal-caller has posted a 95.3 PFF grade this season, which is just ahead of the three best single-season marks we have ever seen: Joe Burrow‘s 94.9 in 2019, Kyler Murray‘s 94.6 in 2018 and Baker Mayfield‘s 94.6 in 2017.

All three of those quarterbacks won the Heisman Trophy in those record-setting years.

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2020-pffs-all-american-team

 

Highest grade ever huh?🧐

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

How is Pitts as a blocker? I haven't seen him play other than highlight reels but I'm wondering if he's a better version of Jordan Reed who will give us a weapon in passing but nothing in running. 

Willing, but not good so he's an upgrade over Reed. Pretty cool story behind him being a TE. They kept trying to move him to QB or WR and he just wants to be a TE, so he's still learning that part of it. But he's HUGE and incredibly fast and reliable receiver. 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

How is Pitts as a blocker? I haven't seen him play other than highlight reels but I'm wondering if he's a better version of Jordan Reed who will give us a weapon in passing but nothing in running. 

 

In general, I think people overstate the difficulty and importance of TE blocking.  TEs like Pitts are decoys almost as much as blockers because you'd never really prefer him pass blocking to running routes.  TBH, you running back is a more important pass blocker than your TE in the modern game.  As a run blocker he'd be fine.  Jordan Reed is like 6'2 IIRC.  That is a really big difference from Pitts.  Most plays, you're mainly looking for your TE to get in the way to either slow down backside pursuit or string out the force defenders for your RB to find creases, and Kyle Pitts has a lot of body and wingspan with which to get in the way.  You don't need that TE blocking the defender into the sidelines and panicking guys routinely.  That's more of a morale thing rather than providing a routine source of value.  As fun as it is to watch Gronk and Kittle throw huge blocks, what made them elite TEs was their dominance as receivers.  Your OLs do the vast majority of the heavy lifting as blockers because they get the brutal assignments.

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

As fun as it is to watch Gronk and Kittle throw huge blocks, what made them elite TEs was their dominance as receivers.  Your OLs do the vast majority of the heavy lifting as blockers because they get the brutal assignments.

Maybe, but there's a certain difference between a Reed type TE and a Gronk. With Reed you pretty much knew that if he's in the game its likely a pass or if its a run, you can just run by him because he won't even try. And I was a fan of Doctson because he would try to block on runs which is important. But I see TMAC and that's a whole nother level. Similar for Sims and his blocking. So I'd think that a TE, who lines up more inside than a WR, is more important to blocking these runs than a WR, especially if we are going to be trying sweeps and WR Screens and stuff that depend on outside blocking. 

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Agreed, but this is where scarcity comes into the argument.  As big as Najee is, Pitts is 6'6.  That's such special size and you aren't likely to find that very often.  Certainly not in a guy as fast and fluid as Pitts.  But you can find guys like Antonio Gibson most years.

 

Running backs have the odd duality of being super valuable on the field in a real Xs and Os sense (second only to QB IMO), but not very valuable in a team building resources sense because of the lack of scarcity at the position.  I feel like that is starting to happen at WR too given how many good WR prospects are churning out of the college game.

Absolutely agree here. And that’s why I said above it depends what’s on the board.

 

Pitts is a special slot talent and could likely even line up outside at times. He’s a matchup nightmare. 
 

That has to be a factor for sure. Even if you count Pitts as a receiver more than a TE his size, speed, strength and blocking are something to behold. If you count him as a TE he’s the best receiving TE prospect in quite some time.

 

But then there’s Brevin Jordan, who is pretty special, too. That doesn’t really negate the scarcity argument though, because RB and WR have about 15 dudes each that could be long term studs in the league. Receiving TE has 2 primary targets. 
 

My argument would be that a creative OC could play McKissick and Gibson and Harris at the same time at times. McKissick/Gibson can be jet guys, slots, align in the backfield, etc. 

 

You could even put Harris there.

 

But of course, I think Etienne falls to the second so there’s your scarcity argument happening again.

 

It’s such a crap shoot.

 

As far as immediate impact on improving the offense I still think it’s Harris over Pitts. Harris over pretty much anyone that isn’t a top flight QB or Penei Sewell. 
 

Long term though it could be Pitts.

 

For the immediate it depends on if we are going to stay somewhat status quo at QB or a mid range vet kind of guy and lean on the run game or we get a high end QB and lean on the passing game. 
 

The draft is going to tell us a lot about strategy moving forward (as Will FA)

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Willing, but not good so he's an upgrade over Reed. Pretty cool story behind him being a TE. They kept trying to move him to QB or WR and he just wants to be a TE, so he's still learning that part of it. But he's HUGE and incredibly fast and reliable receiver. 

 

I need to rewatch some of the UF games, I was watching Trask and my eye caught some decent blocks from Pitts in that process.  It struck me that he's at least improved on that front. 

 

A dude that is that tall, that big and that fast is special.  I recall my first report on Pitts right before this season was wow that dude moves like a receiver.  That's rare.  And that was before the monster season he's having. 

 

Not only would I take him in heartbeat if he fell to us. I'd actually consider trading up for him if he gets close to the range of our pick.  i doubt it happens though. 

[Going Commando]

13 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Totally agree.  I do think taking RB in the late 1st brings real value though.  Nick Chubb was an early 2nd, but he's the best RB in that draft (much better than Barkley).  Taking a Nick Chubb (for example) in the 20s is no waste of resources.  

 

I'd be fine taking a RB, but I think in the end, its either QB (if one slips) or LT (Darrisow, Cosmi) if we win the division.  Those positions are too scarce, and we need a future LT.  Plus, positional value dictates taking those positions in the 1st.  LB is a MAJOR need.  Maybe we go the FA route?  I could see the Jets cutting CJ Mosely potentially considering he sat out the season and a new regime is coming in.  Joe Douglass didn't even sign him in FA.   

 

I'd be fine taking Harris or Etienne in the first too.  I'm a BPA man and those two are top ten talents IMO.  The value is good in the 20s with them.  Plus, just as a fan, I love those two guys in particular.  They have been two of my favorite players to watch over the past two CFB seasons.  My concern is really just how do we fill holes at LBer, OL, DB, and WR if we don't trade down or don't take one in the first.  My instinct is to be lukewarm on an FA LBer because of the toll the position takes on your body, but I'd be interested in Mosely for sure.  Hudson + Mosely + Holcomb is an interesting group.

 

We're not seeing the true version of the offense due to the lack of quality in our RB room, but I believe we're a zone heavy run team in our ideal form.  That makes finding OLs outside of the first round easier, so we could presumably fill OL needs with some of our three picks on day 2.  We need to establish a pipeline at that position group yo really take the next step as a team.  Are there any half decent tackle options on the FA market this spring?

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

But of course, I think Etienne falls to the second so there’s your scarcity argument happening again.

 

 

I don't see it. If Clyde Edwards-Helaire goes in the 1st, some team is going to be smart enough to draft Etienne in the 1st. 

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

.

My argument would be that a creative OC could play McKissick and Gibson and Harris at the same time at times. McKissick/Gibson can be jet guys, slots, align in the backfield, etc. 

 

For sure. McKissic, Gibson and Harris would be super complementary and allow us a balanced weekly running attack regardless of injury to one of the guys. And it would give us a super strong identity, like the Ravens. Run it. Run it. Run it. Sprinkle in some big passes. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'd be fine taking Harris or Etienne in the first too.  I'm a BPA man and those two are top ten talents IMO.  The value is good in the 20s with them.  Plus, just as a fan, I love those two guys in particular.  They have been two of my favorite players to watch over the past two CFB seasons.  My concern is really just how do we fill holes at LBer, OL, DB, and WR if we don't trade down or don't take one in the first.  My instinct is to be lukewarm on an FA LBer because of the toll the position takes on your body, but I'd be interested in Mosely for sure.  Hudson + Mosely + Holcomb is an interesting group.

 

 

I agree with most of this.  We can get a WR outside of the first though -- you've said so before and I agree.   It might not be a bad FA crop for LB.  L. David, K. Wright, Milano, Perryman.  Actually its a good WR FA crop, too.

 

What stinks in FA as usual is TE and LT. 

 

Etienne and Harris have been among my favorite college players, too so i'd get a kick out of having them on our team.  But I admit all this Pitts talk makes me really hungry for him.  Watching that dude be the focal point for UF's offense against Alabama was the kicker for me.  Heck Alabama had to put Surtain on him at times.  How many TEs can we think of that are actually deep threats on go routes?  That dude can do anything that a receiver could do.  He's Engram/Fant/J. Reed but much more explosive.   He screams to me super star. 

[Panninho]

Not necessarily the most realistic simulation but I'd be more than okay with that draft.

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The draft is going to tell us a lot about strategy moving forward (as Will FA)

 

Agreed.  I think it will firmly establish our identity.  Either by making a new long term plan at QB, or by beefing up the defense and run game.  Pretty much everything is on the table for us in the late first.  We're not locked in to any one need or direction, and this is where the good franchises live.  No four alarm fire roster needs to address in order to be competitive, so we can just focus on getting better by taking value when it's available.

 

If I were in charge, I would go pure BPA or I would trade down from my first round pick.  I have a feeling that someone really good and unexpected drops to our first round selection, and my gut is that it's Caleb Farley for some reason.  If I go BPA and pick him, then I am hoping we get either Etienne, Hubbard, a UNC RB, or Gainwell with a later pick.  To the point where I maneuver around in the draft to get them if need be.  That's a lot of opportunities on paper, but they can dry up fast if I am on the wrong side of a run, and as you point out, RB is an important position in this offense.  More important for our team than it is for many others.

 

So yeah, it's a crapshoot.  You need luck in the way the draft board breaks to get the right mix of players to have a great draft.

 

 

[JWB]

8 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

Not necessarily the most realistic simulation but I'd be more than okay with that draft.

The least realistic situation is Arizona trading up to draft a qb...but regardless of the team, this is a fantastic draft, hits every need in the right spot. Would love to see this go down.

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Etienne and Harris have been among my favorite college players, too so i'd get a kick out of having them on our team.  But I admit all this Pitts talk makes me really hungry for him.  Watching that dude be the focal point for UF's offense against Alabama was the kicker for me.  Heck Alabama had to put Surtain on him at times.  How many TEs can we think of that are actually deep threats on go routes?  That dude can do anything that a receiver could do.  He's Engram/Fant/J. Reed but much more explosive.   He screams to me super star. 

 

He's a unique prospect.  Honestly reminds me of Calvin Johnson in the role, presence, and effect he has.  I just don't think there is any way we get him.  I think he's got a better than even chance to be the first offensive skill player drafted since Chase opted out.  Pitts's ascendance is much fresher than Chase's.  I'm trying to remember the last time a TE prospect was as clearly dominant as Pitts.  Maybe Eiffert, but I'm not sure about that.  Most of the best TEs right now were unpolished gems, not superstar Heisman trophy guys like Pitts.

 

We need to let the Pitts dream die.  Everyone can see he's good and there is no reason for him to drop.  That's why I've been trying to watch other TEs who will be available later.

[Panninho]

2 minutes ago, JWB said:

The least realistic situation is Arizona trading up to draft a qb...but regardless of the team, this is a fantastic draft, hits every need in the right spot. Would love to see this go down.

Yeah, there is no way Arizona does that trade. We traded to 26 from the second and only paid with our second rounder and a second rounder in the upcoming year when we selected Montez Sweat, this would be a way steeper price.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's a unique prospect.  Honestly reminds me of Calvin Johnson in the role, presence, and effect he has.  I just don't think there is any way we get him.  I think he's got a better than even chance to be the first offensive skill player drafted since Chase opted out.  Pitts's ascendance is much fresher than Chase's.  I'm trying to remember the last time a TE prospect was as clearly dominant as Pitts.  Maybe Eiffert, but I'm not sure about that.  Most of the best TEs right now were unpolished gems, not superstar Heisman trophy guys like Pitts.

 

We need to let the Pitts dream die.  Everyone can see he's good and there is no reason for him to drop.  That's why I've been trying to watch other TEs who will be available later.

 

I agree I've been saying Pitts is a top 10 player for awhile.  We got to cross our fingers he's not playing against us in the divison. 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's a unique prospect.  Honestly reminds me of Calvin Johnson in the role, presence, and effect he has.  I just don't think there is any way we get him.  I think he's got a better than even chance to be the first offensive skill player drafted since Chase opted out.  Pitts's ascendance is much fresher than Chase's.  I'm trying to remember the last time a TE prospect was as clearly dominant as Pitts.  Maybe Eiffert, but I'm not sure about that.  Most of the best TEs right now were unpolished gems, not superstar Heisman trophy guys like Pitts.

 

We need to let the Pitts dream die.  Everyone can see he's good and there is no reason for him to drop.  That's why I've been trying to watch other TEs who will be available later.

 

 

Yeah, no way he falls to 19-24 range.  Hockenson (who has quietly had an excellent season) went top 10.  In the current top 10, I could see Carolina, Miami (via Houston), Philly, Chargers (who either let Henry leave or resign him), or NYG take him.

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree I've been saying Pitts is a top 10 player for awhile.  We got to cross our fingers he's not playing against us in the divison. 

 

We would have zero answer for him.  Two games a year where you're hoping he's out with injury or that you can put up points because you know he's going to be a multi TD threat that day.

[Panninho]

At this point I just hope Pitts doesn't end up in our division. Even though the Cowboys desperately need defensive help I could actually see all three of the East teams taking Pitts if he is there.

 

...just saw that SIP said the same thing...

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Yeah, no way he falls to 19-24 range.  Hockenson (who has quietly had an excellent season) went top 10.  In the current top 10, I could see Carolina, Miami (via Houston), Philly, Chargers (who either let Henry leave or resign him), or NYG take him.

 

 

 

 

Yeah i know that.  I've been saying top 10.  My best hope albeit it being unlikely would be he falls out of the top 10 and we'd trade up.   i've been pimping for Pitts since before the season  so I've followed his stock closely

[RichmondRedskin88]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’d actually put more value in Harris than Pitts. I think he makes a bigger overall difference. 

Absolutely.  Harris is like a boxer that keeps hitting you. Second half teams will be hating him running at them plus his awareness for first downs and goalie is amazing.  But that dudes takes hits even double hits and keeps going.  I guarantee he trucks atleast two players his rookie year. 

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

We would have zero answer for him.  Two games a year where you're hoping he's out with injury or that you can put up points because you know he's going to be a multi TD threat that day.

 

 

He's not going top 3 (I think QB is set in stone for 1-2), and Cincy takes Sewell at 3.  We have to hope Carolina or Miami takes him.  I don't see Atlanta taking him (they need to rebuild their team and not go for skill guys).  I can see Miami taking him honestly if he's there.  They already have Parker, Preston Williams, and Bowden.  Geseki wasn't drafted by them.