2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[IrepDC]

If we can manage to wait just one year, very few teams will be drafting a QB in 2021. I look at it like investing. Get greedy when everyone is scared. Get scared when everyone is greedy. The QB needy teams will go crazy this year and that allows another top talent to fall to us. Next year those teams are all handcuffed to their QBs from this year, allowing a top QB prospect to fall to us. This especially makes sense if we sign a veteran like Stafford. Having a 1st round QB sit for more than 1 season is rare and I'd think we would sign him for 2-3 years. Getting him help this years draft and getting his replacement next year is the smart play in my opinion.

[Going Commando]

What would it take to get Darnold?

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

What would it take to get Darnold?

I’ve heard it said a 3rd round or later but it was clearly speculative hearsay. Greeney has been talking about it a lot. He seems to think Darnold would greatly benefit from a change of scenery. He still believes in him as a qb, says his intangibles are off the charts. 

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

What would it take to get Darnold?

I’m not going to advocate for a Darnold trade, not sure what he has... but I think Darnold is the kind of trade market we’re likely to be involved in. Much lower cap hit, needs a fresh start... and cheaper in asset cost.

[Anselmheifer]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

What would it take to get Darnold?

 

Do you feel a lot better about Darold than Kyle Allen?I don't. I'd rather draft a guy, I think. 

Also, LOLZ if the Jets cost themselves Lawrence today. The drop off feels steep between Lawrence and the rest of the field. If I'm the Jets, and I choose 2nd, do I consider Sewell and a new coach to help Darnold along?

[Est.1974]

Any decent kickers we can draft. I’m pissed off with Hopkins.

[Koolblue13]

I really want Najee Harris now and he should be there when we draft. 2 6'2" 235lbs running backs that can play WR, like to block, don't fall backwards and look for contact? Hell yes.

[Skinsinparadise]

Weeks ago NFL observer types thought it would take a 2nd rounder and change to get Darnold.

 

I read the NY sports pages a lot and follow most of their writers on twitter.  There is some talk now that they might be out of the Lawrence derby that they'd try to match the Dolphins surge which they attribute to loading up on picks and now maybe keep Darnold and trade that #2 pick for a bounty.  

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I really want Najee Harris now and he should be there when we draft. 2 6'2" 235lbs running backs that can play WR, like to block, don't fall backwards and look for contact? Hell yes.

 

The board would have a meltdown with some people at least if that happened.  But personally I'd be very cool with it. 

8 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Also, LOLZ if the Jets cost themselves Lawrence today. The drop off feels steep between Lawrence and the rest of the field. If I'm the Jets, and I choose 2nd, do I consider Sewell and a new coach to help Darnold along?

 

Judging by at least some of the stuff I've read last night little chance they are taking a LT with the #2 pick.  It would be a QB or trying to get some mega deal for the pick. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I really want Najee Harris now and he should be there when we draft. 2 6'2" 235lbs running backs that can play WR, like to block, don't fall backwards and look for contact? Hell yes.

Harris is a absolute workhorse that would bring a smash mouth side but great open field moves.  Perfect combo with Gibson. 

9 hours ago, IrepDC said:

If we can manage to wait just one year, very few teams will be drafting a QB in 2021. I look at it like investing. Get greedy when everyone is scared. Get scared when everyone is greedy. The QB needy teams will go crazy this year and that allows another top talent to fall to us. Next year those teams are all handcuffed to their QBs from this year, allowing a top QB prospect to fall to us. This especially makes sense if we sign a veteran like Stafford. Having a 1st round QB sit for more than 1 season is rare and I'd think we would sign him for 2-3 years. Getting him help this years draft and getting his replacement next year is the smart play in my opinion.

No team is handcuffed. Cards got rid of their number one drafted QB after a year. If teams want to make moves they will.  

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Harris is a absolute workhorse that would bring a smash mouth side but great open field moves.  Perfect combo with Gibson. 

@stevemcqueen1 said it a while back and I thought the idea was nuts, but after yesterdays game, the lack of a ground game for us to lean on is just too obvious.

[KDawg]

I’d be fine with Harris around where our pick projects to be. But it depends what’s on the board in my opinion.

 

Harris is an elite talent, so there’s not many people in that range I’d consider over him. But you never know what happens.

 

The other factor is depth at RB and WR in this draft. OT to some extent. Those positions are loaded and you can get a potential difference maker in those spots later. So if you have it graded out fairly evenly among a few different guys, it could be wise to opt for the guy in a position with less depth.

 

If it comes down to Pitts or Harris, who do you take?

 

Answer probably depends on free agency... but in a vacuum I’m probably taking Harris.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for where my thoughts are coming from as to the Jets maybe trading down:

 

Some New York sports writers speculated for weeks on and off hat there was maybe a small chance they'd consider trading their pick even when they had Lawrence slated at their pick because they've noticed how much the Dolphins have climed so fast by collecting a bounty of them. And there were some in the organization who still had faith in Darnold.  But at the same time they couldn't pass on a generational QB prospect.

 

So now that the generational QB might be out the window.  I gather it might be on the table.  I'd be surpised if they'd pass on both the QB and also pass on a big trade down and just go with Sewell.  But will see. 

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’d be fine with Harris around where our pick projects to be. But it depends what’s on the board in my opinion.

 

Harris is an elite talent, so there’s not many people in that range I’d consider over him. But you never know what happens.

 

The other factor is depth at RB and WR in this draft. OT to some extent. Those positions are loaded and you can get a potential difference maker in those spots later. So if you have it graded out fairly evenly among a few different guys, it could be wise to opt for the guy in a position with less depth.

 

If it comes down to Pitts or Harris, who do you take?

 

Answer probably depends on free agency... but in a vacuum I’m probably taking Harris.

 

Pitts to me by a mile.  But almost no chance he escapes the top 10 or top 15 let alone 19-23 range.    I think if we want Pitts we got to trade up. 

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

The other factor is depth at RB and WR in this draft. OT to some extent. Those positions are loaded and you can get a potential difference maker in those spots later. So if you have it graded out fairly evenly among a few different guys, it could be wise to opt for the guy in a position with less depth.

 

 

Agree about the RB and WR depth that's what makes this a tough call.  Harris seems special though.  Watching Henry the other day just stiff arm and throw a defender on the ground was a lot of fun.    Also to me it somewhat depends on what we got at QB.  If its just Alex Smith then I think we got to turn into a more heavy physical run team and Harris fits that to a tee. 

 

A lot of good RBs in the draft but not so much 230 pound bruisers with great hands and dexterity. 

[Going Commando]

Our identity on offense disappears without Gibson.  We could keep it at all times if we had Najee too.

 

My concern with Najee is that he has played himself out of value territory.  He is starting to feel like a first rounder instead of the second round bargain that Bell and Henry were.  I was starting to have my heart set on getting one of the good corners or Darrisaw or Zaven Collins or Owusu-Koromoah with our first rounder.  Or even a trade down to add picks.

 

Another consideration with drafting Najee in the first is, yes it could absolutely be a BPA pick, but the running back depth is fabulous this year, and the linebacker and tackle depth is not.  We could get Collins in the first and still get someone like Kenneth Gainwell in the third.  Probably one of the UNC guys too.  I don't really love the linebacker options in that mid round range whereas I do love guys like Hubbard and Gainwell.  And the only tackle option I love in that range is Spencer Brown.

 

But there are scenarios where we can still address lots of needs despite taking a RB in the first.  But if we do take a RB early, I want to see us double down on that identity and make a real push to upgrade the line.  I want to get some high upside linemen either in the draft or free agency and I want us to keep Scherff.  I would want to set the table for an offense where both Gibson and Harris could get 1000 yards and 10+ TDs.

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for where my thoughts are coming from as to the Jets maybe trading down:

 

Some New York sports writers speculated for weeks on and off hat there was maybe a small chance they'd consider trading their pick even when they had Lawrence slated at their pick because they've noticed how much the Dolphins have climed so fast by collecting a bounty of them. And there were some in the organization who still had faith in Darnold.  But at the same time they couldn't pass on a generational QB prospect.

 

So now that the generational QB might be out the window.  I gather it might be on the table.  I'd be surpised if they'd pass on both the QB and also pass on a big trade down and just go with Sewell.  But will see. 

 

Pitts to me by a mile.  But almost no chance he escapes the top 10 or top 15 let alone 19-23 range.    I think if we want Pitts we got to trade up. 

 

Agree about the RB and WR depth that's what makes this a tough call.  Harris seems special though.  Watching Henry the other day just stiff arm and throw a defender on the ground was a lot of fun.    Also to me it somewhat depends on what we got at QB.  If its just Alex Smith then I think we got to turn into a more heavy physical run team and Harris fits that to a tee. 

 

A lot of good RBs in the draft but not so much 230 pound bruisers with great hands and dexterity. 

Pitts by a mile and it's not remotely close. Pitts is a top 10 candidate and Harris is in the right place at our pick. But of course it depends who else is there. That goes without saying.

 

A young or struggling QB stepping onto a team with a dominant run game and defense, is a pretty good place to be. We're so close.

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

But if we do take a RB early, I want to see us double down on that identity and make a real push to upgrade the line.  I want to get some high upside linemen either in the draft or free agency and I want us to keep Scherff.  I would want to set the table for an offense where both Gibson and Harris could get 1000 yards and 10+ TDs.

Yes! This is basically what the Cowboys did for Dak. Establish everything around the QB and get it running well, then bring in the next franchise QB to groom instead of dropping the rookie at the junkyard and telling to figure out how to drive himself home.

[IrepDC]

29 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

 

No team is handcuffed. Cards got rid of their number one drafted QB after a year. If teams want to make moves they will.  

Exceptions to rules exist. That was once out of how many times? I think my assumption that teams will give their QB more than a year is fair.

[Skinsinparadise]

As I've been saying (not that it some grand revelation) outside of QB that spot that seems so slam dunk especially if we are picking in the low 20s is LT. 

 

Some guy will likely be left (maybe Cosmi?) after a run of them goes before our pick.   QBs often goe earlier than expected but the other spot it tends to happen is LT.    Hyped LTs don't tend to be there in the late 2nd.   Where we are picking might easily be the spot where the last one is left from the slate of Darrisaw, Cosmi, Radunz, Leatherwood, etc.   I haven't watched Darrisaw yet but if he plays like he's described, I'd gather he will be gone before our pick instead of landing at our spot which I often see now in some mocks. 

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes! This is basically what the Cowboys did for Dak. Establish everything around the QB and get it running well, then bring in the next franchise QB to groom instead of dropping the rookie at the junkyard and telling to figure out how to drive himself home.

 

Problem for them is they put too much into one runner and the quality of their lines disintegrated.  When Zeke stopped running hungry and started being expensive, he stopped being reasonable asset value for a 4th overall pick.  That's why hedging your bets with two runners who are cheaper makes sense to me.  You always want your running back fresh and competing every snap with vigor.  It's kind of like the center position in basketball.  After a certain amount of mileage, those dudes lose their legs.  They stop playing above the rim all of the time, crashing the boards with fury, running hard to hedge pick and rolls and recover, and setting screens with purpose.  They transition to the "skill" phase of their careers and play a much softer style of play where they don't run or jump as much.  And that is when they lose most of their value to the team.  It happens to most running backs too.  Best to keep them in a rotation and not out all of your eggs into one basket.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Our identity on offense disappears without Gibson.  We could keep it at all times if we had Najee too.

 

 

This is a good summary of why Najee is tempting.   That would be one heck of a two headed monster.  If we aren't going to be the Ferrari with the passing game -- maybe become that with the runnig game.  Control the clock.  Keep the defense rested and hungry. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Problem for them is they put too much into one runner and the quality of their lines disintegrated.  When Zeke stopped running hungry and started being expensive, he stopped being reasonable asset value for a 4th overall pick.  That's why hedging your bets with two runners who are cheaper makes sense to me.  You always want your running back fresh and competing every snap with vigor.  It's kind of like the center position in basketball.  After a certain amount of mileage, those dudes lose their legs.  They stop playing above the rim all of the time, crashing the boards with fury, running hard to hedge pick and rolls and recover, and setting screens with purpose.  They transition to the "skill" phase of their careers and play a much softer style of play where they don't run or jump as much.  And that is when they lose most of their value to the team.  It happens to most running backs too.  Best to keep them in a rotation and not out all of your eggs into one basket.

Dline, DBs and RBs. You just can't have enough good ones on your team.

[KDawg]

I’d actually put more value in Harris than Pitts. I think he makes a bigger overall difference. 

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is a good summary of why Najee is tempting.   That would be one heck of a two headed monster.  If we aren't going to be the Ferrari with the passing game -- maybe become that with the runnig game.  Control the clock.  Keep the defense rested and hungry. 

 

It's an atavistic brand of football that has always worked at every level of the sport.  In a game of blocking and tackling, you are generally going to win when you've got the best blockers and tacklers (plus the best guys who defeat tackles).  And if you give yourself enough passing game weapons on the outside to have the flexibility to come back against good teams, then you have a balanced and proven formula for success.

[KDawg]

Caveat to my Harris take: Turner has to want to lean into the run game more and use Gibson and McKissick creatively or it’s a wasted pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

With their Trevor Lawrence jersey swap backgrounds now mocking them every time they open their phones, Jets fans turn now to Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields or BYU quarterback Zach Wilson and ask: who is our quarterback of the future?

Or is he still on the roster?

 

 

As the deck shuffles and the Jets lose Lawrence, viewed by the league as a truly generational quarterback prospect who deserves no second-guessing as the first overall pick, general manager Joe Douglas is forced to take a long look at his quarterback room and draft options and wonder if taking an early quarterback is still the best path for his team.

The answer is unquestionably yes.

Both Fields and Zach Wilson are measurably better prospects than Sam Darnold was coming out. Darnold received love from the league for his

performance as a redshirt freshman, posting a 67% completion percentage, 8.4 yards/attempt, and 31 touchdowns to five interceptions as a 19-year-old. His play dropped off in his redshirt sophomore year, as footwork issues, poor field processing, and shaky accuracy all limited his final year’s play at USC—but the league still bought high on his potential.

 

As a 20-year-old true sophomore, Fields was better than Darnold ever was: 67% completion percentage, 9.2 yards/attempt, and 41 touchdowns to three interceptions—he brings way more as a runner, too. Fields has had a shakier final season, just as Darnold did, but has described both a higher ceiling with his downfield passing and elite placement outside of the numbers, and a higher floor with his running ability. Wilson didn’t have the young production, but this year—in his first healthy season—Wilson’s completing 73.1% of his passes for 10.9 yards a pop and 30 touchdowns to only three interceptions. It’s against lesser competition, and he’s 21 years old, so you can make an argument that he isn’t a better prospect than Darnold was back then—but he’s making downfield throws that Darnold never made at USC. Better throws on the run, too.

 

Of course, Darnold isn’t just the same player he was at USC—he’s now a three-year starter in the league that has yet to play at a starting-caliber level across one whole season. Some of Darnold’s jumpy and inconsistent play can be attributed to the quality coaching and development he never received under head coach Adam Gase and offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains, but that doesn’t change the reality of where he is now. He still makes the occasional spectacular throw; those throws still detail a potentially dynamic starting quarterback; a quarterback that Darnold isn’t yet, and hasn’t ever been.

 

But the Jets can’t be the team to try and finally get Darnold to that promised land that seems within his reach. In a weak quarterback draft class, perhaps—but this is not a weak class. Fields would be a bonafide QB1 in any class that didn’t include Lawrence, and on pre-draft evaluations, is the best QB2 to come out in a very long time. If Wilson is your preferred player, having him over Fields indicates you think he truly has a Kyler Murray-esque projection to the league—again, that player in their rookie season would be better than anything the Jets have gotten out of Darnold.

Passing on a QB at No. 2 would be impermissible. Trading down from No. 2 and riding with Darnold, is better—you get more picks—but still requires a faith in Darnold that is likely misplaced. The extra picks, if used wisely on offense, could deliver hits along the offensive line and at pass-catcher. It makes Darnold’s supporting cast better, but you still need him to perform well enough in 2021 to justify an extension. That series of events just has far too many “ifs" to pass as a high-percentage approach.

 

So the first overall pick, and Lawrence, no longer belongs to New York. That sucks for Jets fans—he’s an awesome prospect. But just because the Prince who was Promised now looks destined for sunnier shores in Jacksonville doesn’t mean you should ignore the new reality: this is a great class to have the second overall pick to get a quarterback. 

The draft is hard, and while there’s no reason to believe Lawrence will fail to reach his lofty expectations, we’ve seen crazier things. Another potential franchise star in Fields or Wilson awaits the Jets, and he—just like Lawrence—has the tools and the talent to turn this franchise around. 

So it’s okay. Deep breath. It’s just a stately blonde man with the arm of Zeus. Your future quarterback is still waiting for you in April, and he’s still an awesome prospect.

 

 

 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Caveat: Turner has to want to lean into the run game more and use Gibson and McKissick creatively or it’s a wasted pick.

I think Turner has been running as much as he could.  JD is just too small to run 15+ times a game.  He's a 10 running touch a game guy max.  Barber is tough, but is a JAG.  They don't have many options, so they got to throw it.  Gibson coming back would be huge.  RB is a major need tbh.  

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I’d actually put more value in Harris than Pitts. I think he makes a bigger overall difference. 

 

Agreed, but this is where scarcity comes into the argument.  As big as Najee is, Pitts is 6'6.  That's such special size and you aren't likely to find that very often.  Certainly not in a guy as fast and fluid as Pitts.  But you can find guys like Antonio Gibson most years.

 

Running backs have the odd duality of being super valuable on the field in a real Xs and Os sense (second only to QB IMO), but not very valuable in a team building resources sense because of the lack of scarcity at the position.  I feel like that is starting to happen at WR too given how many good WR prospects are churning out of the college game.