2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

18 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

Looks a little bit like a tweener... but he could probably bulk up on that frame.  Maybe a 2nd rounder?

 

Tweener, how so?  260 pounds with his agility and speed almost dream like perfect size-fit for OLB in a 4-3. 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not nearly as risky as the RG3 trade.  We used three #1 picks and a #2 for an unknown.  The price here would be nowhere near it.  Also, Stafford isn't an unknown.  Plus he could last 5-6 years or so.  If Alex is in play with a bionic leg next season at 37, you'd figure Stafford could at a minimum match that longevity.   He's 32 going on 33.  I disagree with those who said he has an old body for a QB his age.  He's been banged up recently but by and large he's been one of the more durable QBs in the league.  Like Alex, Stafford is a tough son of gun. 

 

I just don't buy they have a shot at the SB with the current QB configuration.  The impression I get from Keim's podcasts is Rivera also doesn't buy that can do with the QB group they got now.

 

So in short, I doubt their angle in the off season is to sort go with some longer shot option and hope to get lucky.  I think they likely do something aggressive either with a veteran or trading up in the draft.  But will see. 

I know the RG3 and Stafford thing are wildly different, but was trying to compare the cost.

 

I agree Stafford is a great QB.

 

Maybe we move up in the draft, maybe we bring in Cam. I don't know.

 

This post was more a summary of my other post just above it.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, method man said:

You are being way too conservative here. All the needs you point out are ones you can fix in offseason, given the cap space, 4 top 100 picks and the positions of need (LBs, TE2, center, RB3, slot WR etc). The challenges will be QB and LT and I believe it wouldn’t kill you if you had to start Lucas next year. Charles is a potential starter there and Christian is quality depth

agree other than the LT comment. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I know the RG3 and Stafford thing are wildly different, but was trying to compare the cost.

 

I agree Stafford is a great QB.

 

Maybe we move up in the draft, maybe we bring in Cam. I don't know.

 

This post was more a summary of my other post just above it.

 

OK.  And don't get me wrong, I'd love a rookie QB over a veteran.  But in short, if we are picking in the 20 range, I think we got to use a zen/go with the flow tact to deal with the QB spot with everything being seriously on the table. 

 

I agree young > old.

 

My argument is:

 

A.  We might not have the opportunity to get one of the top 5 QBs is in the draft

B.  The cost to trade up in the draft might be more prohibitive than for a veteran

C. I don't just think we can bank on some dude outside of the first round (even among the ones I like such as Ridder and Newman) solving our QB problems or a struggiling veteran having a career rebirth

D.  I think this roster is too good to chance a SB run on a crap shoot style QB.  And to me the QBs outside the top 4 ones have some serious question marks even though I like some of their potential.

E.  If I wasn't infatuated with this defense and its potential, I'd be much more willing to take a flier and ride on that.  But to me this isn't the 2018 roster.  This defense is borderline special.    

 

I'd love to see the draft play out first but alas we know that's not going down.  So they are going to have to guess this to some extent.   I am not saying I know what hand to play here.  My point is I think veterans/FAs have to be seriously on the table because there is a chance they won't be able to get one of the top 5 Qbs in the draft. 

 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK.  And don't get me wrong, I'd love a rookie QB over a veteran.  But in short, if we are picking in the 20 range, I think we got to use a zen/go with the flow tact to deal with the QB spot with everything being seriously on the table. 

 

I agree young > old.

 

My argument is:

 

A.  We might not have the opportunity to get one of the top 5 QBs is in the draft

B.  The cost to trade up in the draft might be more prohibitive than for a veteran

C. I don't just think we can bank on some dude outside of the first round (even among the ones I like such as Ridder and Newman) solving our QB problems or a struggiling veteran having a career rebirth

D.  I think this roster is too good to chance a SB run on a crap shoot style QB.  And to me the QBs outside the top 4 ones have some serious question marks even though I like some of their potential.

E.  If I wasn't infatuated with this defense and its potential, I'd be much more willing to take a flier and ride on that.  But to me this isn't the 2018 roster.  This defense is borderline special.    

 

I'd love to see the draft play out first but alas we know that's not going down.  So they are going to have to guess this to some extent.   I am not saying I know what hand to play here.  My point is I think veterans/FAs have to be seriously on the table because there is a chance they won't be able to get one of the top 5 Qbs in the draft. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I am 100% in favor of an aggressive offseason. 

 

If we can add Mosley or David in the middle. Simmons is a FA too. Then Ju Ju, draft Harris and Toney. I think we make a run with the right QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Don't get me wrong. I am 100% in favor of an aggressive offseason. 

 

If we can add Mosley or David in the middle. Simmons is a FA too. Then Ju Ju, draft Harris and Toney. I think we make a run with the right QB.

 

OK, we are on the same page.  I think in short the QB spot is the most tricky spot to solve.  I don't really favor anything outside of not going with a reclamation type veteran or riding on a major flier type rookie.

 

The more this injury lingers the more I think there is a chance Alex retires.    I just read a post on the Haskins thread quoting a sports doctor that his injury and the calf muscle do interlink as for it effecting his recovery, etc.  Alex was already on record before the injury about being undecided about coming back.  But even if he does come back, I am not counting on him playing 18 games, etc.    I got my doubts he's a SB QB but to me that's a moot subject.  My bigger concern is his age-durability. 

 

And I don't trust Kyle Allen just yet.  He showed some promise in his limited starts this season.  But he's still an undrafted FA and had a horrendous season with Carolina in 2019 at least statistically. 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, we are on the same page.  I think in short the QB spot is the most tricky spot to solve.  I don't really favor anything outside of not going with a reclamation type veteran or riding on a major flier type rookie.

 

The more this injury lingers the more I think there is a chance Alex retires.    I just read a post on the Haskins thread quoting a sports doctor that his injury and the calf muscle do interlink as for it effecting his recovery, etc.  Alex was already on record before the injury about being undecided about coming back.  But even if he does come back, I am not counting on him playing 18 games, etc.    I got my doubts he's a SB QB but to me that's a moot subject.  My bigger concern is his age-durability. 

 

And I don't trust Kyle Allen just yet.  He showed some promise in his limited starts this season.  But he's still an undrafted FA and had a horrendous season with Carolina in 2019 at least statistically. 

My personal opinion. I want an under $20M vet with wheels and a cannon. Winston comes to mind first. Our QB can turn the ball over with our defense, as long as he is putting big points on the board and if we pair JuJu with Tmac, a high WR pick, with our underneath and ground game, I'm cool with it. 

[Darth Tater]

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I know the RG3 and Stafford thing are wildly different, but was trying to compare the cost.

 

I agree Stafford is a great QB.

 

Maybe we move up in the draft, maybe we bring in Cam. I don't know.

 

This post was more a summary of my other post just above it.

Stafford is why I didn't want Lawrence going to the Jets.  I mean, in my opinion, Detroit ruined the career of a guy who'd probably be on the HOF-track with most teams. Jets seem to be looking for another Joe Namath forgetting that Joe was surrounded with some great talent and really wasn't all that (mostly due to injuries)

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

My personal opinion. I want an under $20M vet with wheels and a cannon. Winston comes to mind first. Our QB can turn the ball over with our defense, as long as he is putting big points on the board and if we pair JuJu with Tmac, a high WR pick, with our underneath and ground game, I'm cool with it. 

 

Winston had issues in college, then some in the NFL with the weird  Uber story.  I watched the full season of Hard Knocks with Tampa Bay -- I wasn't impressed with Winston's personality.  Struck me immature.  I doubt he would fit the culture.  To me he would be a flier type both from a personality stand point and as a player.  

 

If this has to be FA, I don't really love any of the options but I'd guess the ones I'd consider would be Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Brissett.

 

To me Stafford would be ideal, cap hit only 20 million next year, if I recall 23 million the year after.  He's way more talented than any of the FO options.  But I doubt he hits the market.

 

I might be able to be talked into Darnold if the price is cheap but i see him as a crap shoot.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Winston had issues in college, then some in the NFL with the weird  Uber story.  I watched the full season of Hard Knocks with Tampa Bay -- I wasn't impressed with Winston's personality.  Struck me immature.  I doubt he would fit the culture.  To me he would be a flier type both from a personality stand point and as a player.  

 

If this has to be FA, I don't really love any of the options but I'd guess the ones I'd consider would be Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Brissett.

 

To me Stafford would be ideal, cap hit only 20 million next year, if I recall 23 million the year after.  He's way more talented than any of the FO options.  But I doubt he hits the market.

 

I might be able to be talked into Darnold if the price is cheap but i see him as a crap shoot.

 

 

Darnold a later pick I'd trade. No way do I lose a 1rst for Stafford.

 

Fair point on Winston. Has to be a reason a 5k yard QB isn't a starter.

 

Mariotta is intriguing. Carr too. I'm even down with a Smith style game manager. Smith is who I really want back. I'd love to go to the SB with him. 

[Darth Tater]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

My personal opinion. I want an under $20M vet with wheels and a cannon. Winston comes to mind first. Our QB can turn the ball over with our defense, as long as he is putting big points on the board and if we pair JuJu with Tmac, a high WR pick, with our underneath and ground game, I'm cool with it. 

If cost was no object, I'd be fully onboard with Stafford as I think his game along with our offensive system (not what Turner decides to call but what he wants to call) are good fits.  Our defense is good and a playmaker at QB may actually put us in position to keep our defensive weakness off the field (the backer core).

[CousinsCowgirl84]

34 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

My personal opinion. I want an under $20M vet with wheels and a cannon. Winston comes to mind first. Our QB can turn the ball over with our defense, as long as he is putting big points on the board and if we pair JuJu with Tmac, a high WR pick, with our underneath and ground game, I'm cool with it. 

this strategy gets you to the playoffs. But if you turn the back over in playoffs you will loose

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

this strategy gets you to the playoffs. But if you turn the back over in playoffs you will loose

Defense wins championships. With a strong ground game and a great defense, we can win.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Darnold a later pick I'd trade.

 

I probably would but wouldn't be excited.

 

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

No way do I lose a 1rst for Stafford.

 

I'd do it in 2 seconds.  But I don't think we'd be so lucky that the Lions would trade him.  Among the options IMO he's our best shot at the SB with the defense we got.

 

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Mariotta is intriguing. Carr too. 

 

I am intrigued depending on the price.

 

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Smith is who I really want back. I'd love to go to the SB with him. 

 

I just looked up his cap hit for 2021, wow, 24.5 million.  Love Alex the dude but he's not worth a 24.5 million cap hit considering durability concerns.  I'd by a mile take Stafford at the cheaper 20 million cap hit next year.  

 

 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I just looked up his cap hit for 2021, wow, 24.5 million.  Love Alex the dude but he's not worth a 24.5 million cap hit considering durability concerns.  I'd by a mile take Stafford at the cheaper 20 million cap hit next year.  

 

 

There is no 22m Stafford vs 25m Smith argument to honestly be made though. It's basically the same cost, but includes at least a 1rst.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is no 22m Stafford vs 25m Smith argument to honestly be made though. It's basically the same cost, but includes at least a 1rst.

 

PFF had it at 20 next year for Stafford.   But to me I'd have to really infatuated with Alex to ride next season on a dude at 37 who is struggiling to get through a third of this season.  I like Alex but don't love him at least as a player.  But I don't really love any player who will be 37 with serious question marks about whether they can make it through a season let alone one at a 24.5 million cap hit.  Granted we get hit (because of the atrocious contract done by Bruce) with a 10.8 million hit regardless as for Alex.  

[bakedtater1]

5 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I don't know man.

If you create a duplicate account on ES just one more time, simply because your phone broke or got lost, then I think @TK isn't just going to throw a tater on the field, but he's going to throw a @bakedtater1 and a @bakedtater2 on the field too !

Wait huh?..I was just having a little fun with the fun you were poking at with the whole insight to the potato bowl..and you warn me with this..I was just grounded for 3 months and now facing being banned again for what?...😔

[Koolblue13]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

PFF had it at 20 next year for Stafford.   But to me I'd have to really infatuated with Alex to ride next season on a dude at 37 who is struggiling to get through a third of this season.  I like Alex but don't love him at least as a player.  But I don't really love any player who will be 37 with serious question marks about whether they can make it through a season let alone one at a 24.5 million cap hit.  Granted we get hit (because of the atrocious contract done by Bruce) with a 10.8 million hit regardless as for Alex.  

My point is he is on the roster and it doesn't cost picks to bring him in.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

My point is he is on the roster and it doesn't cost picks to bring him in.

 

He doesn't but

 

A. Stafford > Alex.   A clear peg better IMO.

B.  Stafford 4 years younger.

C.  Stafford even cheaper on the cap but granted you have to eat dead money on Alex's contract though not sure if he retires?

D.  I'd bank on Staffords durability over Alex.

 

If I recall you think Alex is a SB QB.  Not many NFL observers would agree with that nor would I.  But to each their own on that but the larger point for me is even if agreed Alex was a SB QB I don't think he'd likely make it through the season let alone through the post season at 37 considering its a struggle at 36.

 

I don't get the impression based on Keim's podcasts, Rivera is going to roll the dice with the status quo at QB.  But will see. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He doesn't but

 

A. Stafford > Alex.   A clear peg better IMO.

B.  Stafford 4 years younger.

C.  Stafford even cheaper on the cap but granted you have to eat dead money on Alex's contract though not sure if he retires?

D.  I'd bank on Staffords durability over Alex.

 

If I recall you think Alex is a SB QB.  Not many NFL observers would agree with that nor would I.  But to each their own on that but the larger point for me is even if agreed Alex was a SB QB I don't think he'd likely make it through the season let alone through the post season at 37 considering its a struggle at 36.

 

I don't get the impression based on Keim's podcasts, Rivera is going to roll the dice with the status quo at QB.  But will see. 

Smith is a QB on a SB team, not a SB QB on a regular team. He's not gonna Rodgers or Wilson you over competition, but we definitely win with him and making a better team to drive doesn't hurt. 

 

I 100% agree Stafford over Smith to be clear. In every single way. Don't get me wrong.

[OVCChairman]

I'm getting more and more intrigued with the idea of Stafford. 

 

Stafford at QB

Darrisaw in the 1st

Parris Ford in the 2nd

Desmond Ridder in the 3rd

Kyle Ferguson in the 3rd

Jabril Cox in the 4th

 

Add Curtis Samuel in the FA

Re-sign Scherff

 

You're talking a clear front runner for the division in 2021 and a legit contender by 2022.... 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He doesn't but

 

C.  Stafford even cheaper on the cap but granted you have to eat dead money on Alex's contract though not sure if he retires?

 

 

 

If Alex retires we are still on the hook for his cap hit regarding his signing bonus... $4.3m or $5.4m depending on which site you look at, OTC vs Sportrac

[CapsSkins]

40 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

I'm getting more and more intrigued with the idea of Stafford. 

 

Stafford at QB

Darrisaw in the 1st

Parris Ford in the 2nd

Desmond Ridder in the 3rd

Kyle Ferguson in the 3rd

Jabril Cox in the 4th

 

Add Curtis Samuel in the FA

Re-sign Scherff

 

You're talking a clear front runner for the division in 2021 and a legit contender by 2022.... 

 

 

If Alex retires we are still on the hook for his cap hit regarding his signing bonus... $4.3m or $5.4m depending on which site you look at, OTC vs Sportrac

 

I like Stafford too but no chance we trade for him and somehow still keep our 1st, 2nd, both 3rd's and 4th

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Wait huh?..I was just having a little fun with the fun you were poking at with the whole insight to the potato bowl..and you warn me with this..I was just grounded for 3 months and now facing being banned again for what?...😔

 

Hey that was not a warning. I was havin fun with ya too. Remember the time you broke or lost your phone, then you thought that meant you'd never again be able to sign into your old account because of that ? So you created a brand new name on ES ?

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Hey that was not a warning. I was havin fun with ya too. Remember the time you broke or lost your phone, then you thought that meant you'd never again be able to sign into your old account because of that ? So you created a brand new name on ES ?

Oh ok..yes that's right thats what happened

[OVCChairman]

26 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I like Stafford too but no chance we trade for him and somehow still keep our 1st, 2nd, both 3rd's and 4th

 

 

Very fair... 

 

But we may not have to trade for him... They have an out after this season, he could be outright released.   If the cap drops to $175m then the Lions would currently have $1.1m in cap space... that's not even enough to sign your draft picks.  With Golliday set to be a free agent, it's possible they decide to move on from Stafford as well... Releasing him with a Jun 1 designation saves them $20M against the cap and they pick 11th.  They will have a shot at a QB in the first round, especially if they keep losing.  They may decide to hit the reset button...