Update - 3/11/21 - America Rescue Plan Bill is signed!

[LD0506]

Ugggghh....... this is exactly why I keep ranting about voting, blow up the filibuster and get HR1 passed.

 

The tie in the Senate just keeps McConnell et. el. from doing more damage, but it is untenable. The focus needs to be the '22 midterms and seizing a couple more Senate seats to avoid all the bull****.

[goskins10]

9 hours ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

Why can't Dems get their messaging together!! Here is one of the better studies I have seen comparing states reliance on federal money vs their contribution. The only potential flaw I saw was using 2016 election results to determine red vs blue. So I checked this against 2020 also. The results are (The smaller the number the more dependent a state is): 

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700

 

2016: 

Red = 20.97

Blue = 32.85

 

2020:

Red = 20.4

Blue = 30.6

 

Intuitively it seems the average should be closer to 50 combined but it's not. I don't have the time to try and figure it out but the simple math part of it is accurate. I checked with Excel and then by hand to make sure. 

 

In the end, the Dems need to be happering the lie that idiots like Ernst keep telling. Get the numbers out there! They have to be more aggressive. One part of this is that Dems seem to think if they say it once it's said and done. They need to hammer these points relentlessly. Yes, it iwll pis some people off but it will get the message through to some of those hard headed. After all trump and rep make up their own reality by just saying it enough time.s It should work even better with the truth! 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by goskins10

[mistertim]

23 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Slightly tangent: I can't believe any of the current GOP or their hardcore voter base give two ****s about Reagan anymore. Reagan unified them for so long during my lifetime that it seems surreal for that to be true.

 

If Reagan were running today MAGAs would absolutely be dragging him through the mud and calling him a RINO.

[goskins10]

27 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Slightly tangent: I can't believe any of the current GOP or their hardcore voter base give two ****s about Reagan anymore. Reagan unified them for so long during my lifetime that it seems surreal for that to be true.

 

 

Haven't you heard, reagan was really a democrat. He was for some gun control and was not strong enough on immigration or abortion. So he is now cast as a rino. Seriously, I have been told this by many a trump thumper. 

 

 

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

If Reagan were running today MAGAs would absolutely be dragging him through the mud and calling him a RINO.

 

It's already happening. I hear it all the time. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by goskins10

[LD0506]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Why can't Dems get their messaging together!! Here is one of the better studies I have seen comparing states reliance on federal money vs their contribution.....etc...

 

Here's the rub, the crazoids just spout off any ole dumb**** that occurs to them, that's quick n nasty but mainly, short n easy when directed at a target that wants quick n easy. Dems respond with facts and explanations and the lose the morlocks, they don't want to pay attention to hearing wooorrrddsss, they want bumper stickers! They are immune to facts, immune to rationale and debate, immune to the very concept of reality. You cannot discuss or dissuade when your audience refuses to listen, and they are allowed to simply refuse to listen or believe or anything. 

 

I know I am being redundant but IMO the best analogy for all of this is an addiction. You can't "fix" anybody unless and until they hit rock bottom and admit that they are the cause of their own grief. You cycle their sorry asses thru as many rehabs as you want to but if they aren't ready to try, it's just wasted effort, no matter how much you tell yourself "it's for their own good" or,(one of my favorites), "I did the best I could". Half measures and enabling exacerbate the problem, always! 

 

Holding someone accountable for their actions is essential to them hitting that rock bottom/gotta change point in their lives. So, sorry- not sorry- it is going to take the grief hitting home in magaland to begin pushing back against the tide of de-evolution going on right now. The conversation that has to happen is the one where they are told, "Nope, ain't got jack**** for you, you're on your own...but nice hat!"

[goskins10]

3 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Here's the rub, the crazoids just spout off any ole dumb**** that occurs to them, that's quick n nasty but mainly, short n easy when directed at a target that wants quick n easy. Dems respond with facts and explanations and the lose the morlocks, they don't want to pay attention to hearing wooorrrddsss, they want bumper stickers! They are immune to facts, immune to rationale and debate, immune to the very concept of reality. You cannot discuss or dissuade when your audience refuses to listen, and they are allowed to simply refuse to listen or believe or anything. 

 

I know I am being redundant but IMO the best analogy for all of this is an addiction. You can't "fix" anybody unless and until they hit rock bottom and admit that they are the cause of their own grief. You cycle their sorry asses thru as many rehabs as you want to but if they aren't ready to try, it's just wasted effort, no matter how much you tell yourself "it's for their own good" or,(one of my favorites), "I did the best I could". Half measures and enabling exacerbate the problem, always! 

 

Holding someone accountable for their actions is essential to them hitting that rock bottom/gotta change point in their lives. So, sorry- not sorry- it is going to take the grief hitting home in magaland to begin pushing back against the tide of de-evolution going on right now. The conversation that has to happen is the one where they are told, "Nope, ain't got jack**** for you, you're on your own...but nice hat!"

 

 

You are talking of course about the lost ones and I agree. But there are many others who follow this stuff more tangentially and they are influenced by what they hear most. And really those are the ones that need to hear the truth - more than they are. But let's say it doesn't change any minds. I need to hear it from the Dems. Other Dems need to hear from Dem leadership. We need to know they get it and are willing to defend themselves. I am tired of doing more to defend Dems records than they do. 

[mistertim]

Yeah actually discussing policy with MAGAs and trying to change their minds with it is a fool's errand.

 

But it's been that way and getting steadily worse with Republicans over decades. The anti-intellectual wing of the party and conservative echo chamber media have basically been peddling in prepackaged anger, grievance, and blame for all of their followers in nice, simple, black and white (and total bull****) gift baskets, and they've been feeding at that trough for so long that I think many of them literally have no idea how to even understand or debate policy at all.

 

Plus it takes effort. You have to actually read bills and policy positions and understand nuance and be able to look at things from multiple angles. Why go to that trouble when you have all that crap you've been feeding on and which makes you feel so good and is so easy to understand? 

 

You're basically trying to override the base mammalian brain with logic and reason, and 95% of the time it just ain't gonna' happen.

[LD0506]

11 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

You are talking of course about the lost ones and I agree. But there are many others who follow this stuff more tangentially and they are influenced by what they hear most. And really those are the ones that need to hear the truth - more than they are. But let's say it doesn't change any minds. I need to hear it from the Dems. Other Dems need to hear from Dem leadership. We need to know they get it and are willing to defend themselves. I am tired of doing more to defend Dems records than they do. 

 

Personally, the number of lost or irredeemably evil mfers is pretty small IMO, it is that easily led cohort in the middle that needs to be spooked like zebras away from the edge. You don't talk to zebras to get em to move, you leap out of cover like a leopard and they all take off, no conversation necessary.

 

But I get what you're saying about the Dems, they have been conditioned for decades into being lapdogs. We need a new generation of voices in government that isn't beholden to the powers that be.

 

Send me a stimulus check, I am passing some of that right on to Fetterman, etc. for '22

[The Evil Genius]

 

[PleaseBlitz]

Quote

“First and foremost, I want to thank everyone on the floor staff who worked late into the night and into the wee hours of the morning to finish reading the Senate amendment to the American Rescue Plan,” Schumer said as he opened Friday’s proceedings. “And as for our friend from Wisconsin,” he added, “I hope he enjoyed his Thursday evening.”

 

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/covid-relief-package-senate-johnson

[NoCalMike]

The Dems big error is they think good policy wins hearts & minds.  That works for those more informed and who follow politics closely but the vast majority are people who get home from work, catch a couple hours of the headlines and nonsense and form their opinions around that.   When people like Ernst are making stupid statements about "we are paying for blue state senators" it is da** near required for the Dems to punch back on that ridiculous idea as it is pretty common knowledge that the economies of the blue states give out much more than they receive back in aid on a regular basis. And that despite that, Democrats still push for policies that look to help all Americans, including those in red states, while Republicans are willing to besmirch their own constituents if it also means "owning the libs on the coasts" 

Edited March 5, 2021 by NoCalMike

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, LD0506 said:

 

Personally, the number of lost or irredeemably evil mfers is pretty small IMO, it is that easily led cohort in the middle that needs to be spooked like zebras away from the edge. You don't talk to zebras to get em to move, you leap out of cover like a leopard and they all take off, no conversation necessary.

 

But I get what you're saying about the Dems, they have been conditioned for decades into being lapdogs. We need a new generation of voices in government that isn't beholden to the powers that be.

 

Send me a stimulus check, I am passing some of that right on to Fetterman, etc. for '22

 

I'm just not sure anymore. 

 

I used to think "Well, Trump supporters will start to turn on him once his ****ups hit them in the wallet." or "Well, Trump supporters will start to turn on him once their red counties and states start taking massive COVID casualties."

 

Both of those things happened, and it didn't budge them an inch.

 

They literally had people in their communities dropping dead over the summer and winter and they still didn't turn on Trump and they still screamed about having to wear masks and things shutting down.

 

The economy cratered and those same red counties and states took massive economic casualties. They still didn't budge an inch on supporting that jackwagon. They just came up with tons of excuses about why not only was absolutely none of it his fault, but it was actually the fault of Democrats...somehow.

 

Every marker of "This is finally the line that will get Trump supporters to turn on him" has been crossed. And none of them made a damn bit of difference. It truly is a straight up 100% cult. I simply have no faith that anything will get them to rethink their allegiance to him.

[LD0506]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm just not sure anymore. 

 

I used to think "Well, Trump supporters will start to turn on him once his ****ups hit them in the wallet." or "Well, Trump supporters will start to turn on him once their red counties and states start taking massive COVID casualties."

 

Both of those things happened, and it didn't budge them an inch.

 

They literally had people in their communities dropping dead over the summer and winter and they still didn't turn on Trump and they still screamed about having to wear masks and things shutting down.

 

The economy cratered and those same red counties and states took massive economic casualties. They still didn't budge an inch on supporting that jackwagon. They just came up with tons of excuses about why not only was absolutely none of it his fault, but it was actually the fault of Democrats...somehow.

 

Every marker of "This is finally the line that will get Trump supporters to turn on him" has been crossed. And none of them made a damn bit of difference. It truly is a straight up 100% cult. I simply have no faith that anything will get them to rethink their allegiance to him.

 

I hear ya and I understand that PoV, but when they get to the point of "Sitting in a cold, dark house drawing straws to decide which kid they have to eat", they might be amenable to conversation.

 

A few in Tx were pondering it

 

Let's see what happens

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

I hear ya and I understand that PoV, but when they get to the point of "Sitting in a cold, dark house drawing straws to decide which kid they have to eat", they might be amenable to conversation.

 

A few in Tx were pondering it

 

Let's see what happens

 

Yeah I'm curious how it will turn out.

 

Though again one issue is that they always find someone to blame other than Trump or whatever Trumpist Republican is running things in their state/city.

 

And there's no actual thought that seems to go into that process. It's basically a purely reflex action at this point. They'll just say something nonsensical like "This is Pelosi's fault", fully believe it, and move on without a second thought. So then Trump is off the hook and they don't have to analyze how any of his actions could have been at fault.

 

It reminds me of a documentary I watched years ago by a journalist who went to North Korea. At one point she asked one of her handlers if Kim Jong-il could ever be wrong about anything or do anything wrong. I thought the handler was going to get angry or offended...but he didn't; he was honestly completely perplexed by the question and couldn't process it. He couldn't even understand the concept. It was so far out of the realm of his understanding of the world that he basically ignored it as if it were complete gibberish and he felt sorry for her that she couldn't communicate clearly.

Edited March 5, 2021 by mistertim

[PleaseBlitz]

29 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

I hear ya and I understand that PoV, but when they get to the point of "Sitting in a cold, dark house drawing straws to decide which kid they have to eat", they might be amenable to conversation.

 

A few in Tx were pondering it

 

Let's see what happens

 

To @mistertim's point, even getting to that point just means they have to assign blame for their predicament.  And they've been conditioned to assign it to "libruls" no matter how much cognitive dissonance it takes.  I mean seriously, the people freezing in their house were blaming the Green New Deal (which is not law anywhere, only an idea) for power failures that happened in Texas, a state that has been fully red for decades and produces and consumes a ****load of oil.  

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

To @mistertim's point, even getting to that point just means they have to assign blame for their predicament.  And they've been conditioned to assign it to "libruls" no matter how much cognitive dissonance it takes.  I mean seriously, the people freezing in their house were blaming the Green New Deal (which is not law anywhere, only an idea) for power failures that happened in Texas, a state that has been fully red for decades and produces and consumes a ****load of oil.  

 

I actually got into a very brief Twitter debate with a Trumper about this exact thing. He blamed the Texas problems on the Green New Deal. I pointed out that that's literally not even a thing that exists in law. But he wouldn't budge and claimed that it was the "beliefs behind the Green New Deal" that was the cause. I said that was one of the most nonsensical things I'd ever heard.

 

He then blocked me.   

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

 

 

[Fergasun]

Manchin seems to be blocking it for blocking sake.  He already was successful at narrowing the stimulus... now he wants to limit the UI?  That's not "moderate", that is cruel.  

[NoCalMike]

Has Manchin actually spoken at all and explained himself and why he is trying to get these reductions made?   I can't honestly believe the people in his district, his continuants are cheering him on to further the amount of aid they receive, so what exactly is his motivation here?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

21 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Has Manchin actually spoken at all and explained himself and why he is trying to get these reductions made?   I can't honestly believe the people in his district, his continuants are cheering him on to further the amount of aid they receive, so what exactly is his motivation here?

Trying his hardest to appease the Trump loving state to overlook the D by his name.

[Fergasun]

Manchin got his deal on UI. 

 

$300 for UI thru September, non taxable for people making less then $150k.  

 

Let's see if any GOP vote for it...

[Simmsy]

1. Manchin needs to go, I'm not saying Biden need to primary him, but the DNC needs to find a rising star in WV to take him out. We could, ya know, turn another red state blue and just take Manchin's power off the table...but we'll get there.

 

2. This bill has been watered down to hell, its better than nothing, but it leaves much to be desired already. I have to say though, the Dems are working hard to get it through, I'm proud of them. Unfortunately, I see this going down again in about 6 months, same fight, same drawn out process. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[@DCGoldPants]

29 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

1. Manchin needs to go, I'm not saying Biden need to primary him, but the DNC needs to find a rising star in WV to take him out. We could, ya know, turn another red state blue and just take Manchin's power off the table...but we'll get there.

 

2. This bill has been watered down to hell, its better than nothing, but it leaves much to be desired already. I have to say though, the Dems are working hard to get it through, I'm proud of them. Unfortunately, I see this going down again in about 6 months, same fight, same drawn out process. 

He voted yes in the end. True this, the alternative option to him isn't a more progressive Dem or liberal Dem. They'd lose that seat in WV right now. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

So:

 

- $1,400 more in direct stimulus and Federal Unemployment extended from March to August

 

That's all I know lol (and that may not even be right)....what are the other main items? Money for states? Another round of PPP? Eviction moratorium? More utility assistance? School $$ and vaccination $$?