No Excuses Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) To say that ”nothing could have been done” is just so so ignorant. You can look at how this unfolded in a country that mobilized quickly and a country that didn’t. And Italy has an authoritarian government whereas South Korea is a liberal democracy. They didn’t enact draconian measures like China. A lot of people are going to die and suffer in this country unnecessarily because of leadership failure to warn, to act quick and to distribute resources. Edited March 11, 2020 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, No Excuses said: By the point where we are currently, South Korea had already tested 100,000 people. We are at 4500. That is a failure of the government: the CDC for not mobilizing testing throughout the country and the FDA for not yet allowing automated testing. And the biggest failure is the orange buffoon telling people that is just like the flu and go to work even if you’re sick. Even if 70% of sensible people ignore his advice, 30% of the population takes him at his word and that is enough to make a bad situation even worse. We can’t even mobilize basic testing kits. I’m worried what happens when hospitals need emergency supplies. This may have been posted here already, but it’s a really alarming article about how resource-strained our hospitals are going to be. We’ve seen it everywhere there’s been a major outbreak: Wuhan, Iran, and Italy. The hospitals are simply overwhelmed by the sudden wave of sick patients and many cannot get proper care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 10 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: How is quarantining people going? Well, there's scientific data been presented in this thread (which, I confess, is too complicated for me to follow), which seems to indicate that in China, they reduced the spread of the infection by 90%. Granted, it was a quarantine that was run with the ruthlessness you would expect from the Chinese government. But the evidence does seem to suggest that it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, No Excuses said: To say that ”nothing could have been done” is just so so ignorant. You can look at how this unfolded in a country that mobilized quickly and a country that didn’t. And Italy has an authoritarian government whereas South Korea is a liberal democracy. They didn’t enact draconian measures like China. A lot of people are going to die and suffer in this country unnecessarily because of leadership failure to warn, to act quick and to distribute resources. I hope this doesn't happen. But in the event that it does, I hope the media can be fair and show the truth. And in the unlikely event that that happens, I hope that people learn from this mistake and understand our government and infrastructure is not a game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Wash your hands after handling cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 social distancing and hygiene seems to be effective in bending the curve, btw, I keep seeing hospital beds used as a metric, you should instead measure ICU and critical care ability (and staffing of course) for this event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 How South Korea got this under control, a thread: Long story short, they leaned into technology, weren’t afraid of trying innovative approaches and mobilized extremely fast. Meanwhile, the FDA is asking people working on automated testing to MAIL RESULTS. I am honestly beginning to wonder when universities and hospitals will just give the federal government the middle finger and go rogue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I've got an extremely rare day off tomorrow. Roommate and I are contemplating driving down to Disney for a day, trying to get into the new Star Wars ride. I'm wondering if we're being irresponsible. I know that the risk right now is really low. But, still. We both work health care. (She's a respiratory therapist in a hospital. I'm a nurse caring for one patient in his home. But he's pretty much the profile of a high risk patient. His risk of getting it is low. (He obviously doesn't get out.) But he's almost the definition of a vulnerable patient. If he gets it, he's dead.) (Her feelings on the subject is that she's not going to get it at Disney. If she gets it, she's going to get it at work.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Larry said: I'm wondering if we're being irresponsible. probably, but she is probably right 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) I don't know... I think Disney is probably a moderately risky idea. But Star Wars, probably with the shortest lines ever? I would go. Not saying I should, or that its responsible. But the temptation is very understandable. Edited March 11, 2020 by bcl05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 hour ago, redskinss said: I feel your pain, my wife is a nurse and the head of infection control at brattleboro memorial hospital. Her life is crazy right now, worked Saturday until midnight and sunday until 11 pm. 12 hours ago, PCS said: My wife the nurse and I will be having another talk tonight,(after a 12 hour day poor gal). yup. Going through it too. Mine oversees acute care service lines. She’s in the rotation to be out front in gear doing screening. She’s prepping to go back to floor nursing. last night we started our contingency plans for her being forced to live at the hospital for 2-3 months. Packing up a bag. im concerned about her taking care of herself. She’ll work until she passes out if that’s the situation. Your families are in my thoughts. its a trying time right now. the morons downplaying this are approaching punch-in-the-face level. It’s incredibly frustrating to be preparing for your wife to be gone for 2-3 months dealing with a pandemic, then find yourself in a conversation with someone that thinks this is the flu and it’ll just blow over or something. I imagine it’s similar to how people feel when a family member is gearing up for deployment to a war zone. Obviously a war zone is more serious than the current situation. But I think the emotions you go through are about the same. the write ups from the medical community in Italy are just heart breaking. last night we were taking about the options for how to turn entire floors into negative pressure floors. I told her she needs to prep to turn the entire building into an ICU. That they need to train their non-icu nurses to deal with this. She said she can’t the training is too intense and long. I told her they don’t need to be full blown icu nurses they just need to be able to deal with this; and she may not have a choice. an hour later she was sent that write up from Italy I posted earlier. Where they said you better prepare to turn your entire hospital into an icu... anyways. You guys aren’t alone. Your families are in my thoughts. Good luck, hang in there. 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 My hospital just announced that all medical staff travel is cancelled for the foreseeable future. Both as a deterrence against spread and a readiness plan for when the numbers of cases spike beyond normal capacity. I haven't managed a ventilator or intubated anyone since my first residency, 17 years ago. God help anyone for whom I'm the best choice for that... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 35 minutes ago, Larry said: I've got an extremely rare day off tomorrow. Roommate and I are contemplating driving down to Disney for a day, trying to get into the new Star Wars ride. I'm wondering if we're being irresponsible. I know that the risk right now is really low. But, still. We both work health care. (She's a respiratory therapist in a hospital. I'm a nurse caring for one patient in his home. But he's pretty much the profile of a high risk patient. His risk of getting it is low. (He obviously doesn't get out.) But he's almost the definition of a vulnerable patient. If he gets it, he's dead.) (Her feelings on the subject is that she's not going to get it at Disney. If she gets it, she's going to get it at work.) I saw somebody thinking this same thing a few days ago trying to get into Star Wars and it was still pretty backed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Yeah, my wife last year took a management position for the first time in her life ( ironic she'd go into infection control now) before that she was an e.r. nurse in multiple level 1 trauma centers across Massachusetts, so I'd imagine if this gets as crazy as it could they'll put her back in the e.r. because her clinical experience will be too valuable to waste. She's already getting 8 week contract offers for 4 thousand a week. The hospitals are definitely gearing up and hitting the panic button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, tshile said: anyways. You guys aren’t alone. Your families are in my thoughts. Good luck, hang in there. Just want to echo these sentiments. Its an angle that can be easily forgotten about by those who are not in that field. Wishing for the best for you and yours, as well as the others who are on the frontlines of all this 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I am not sure if this was posted or not yet, but Joe Rogan had Michael Osterholm on his podcast yesterday. Osterholm is an expert in infectious disease epidemioloy and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, bcl05 said: My hospital just announced that all medical staff travel is cancelled for the foreseeable future. Both as a deterrence against spread and a readiness plan for when the numbers of cases spike beyond normal capacity. I haven't managed a ventilator or intubated anyone since my first residency, 17 years ago. God help anyone for whom I'm the best choice for that... Are you guys doing some last minute cramming? Studying medical journals from China, brushing up on treatment and tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said: Are you guys doing some last minute cramming? Studying medical journals from China, brushing up on treatment and tools? My area of medical expertise is not very useful in this kind of emergency. If/when it happens that I need to help with C19 patients, I think my main role will be carrying stuff and doing what I'm told. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, redskinss said: Yeah, my wife last year took a management position for the first time in her life ( ironic she'd go into infection control now) before that she was an e.r. nurse in multiple level 1 trauma centers across Massachusetts, so I'd imagine if this gets as crazy as it could they'll put her back in the e.r. because her clinical experience will be too valuable to waste. She's already getting 8 week contract offers for 4 thousand a week. The hospitals are definitely gearing up and hitting the panic button. Off the wall idea, but I'm wondering. If I were in charge of a hospital, and my job is to try to figure out how I'm going to deal with a (10%? 50%? 100%?) increase in patient load, simultaneous with half my staff being ordered to self-quarantine, I might be wondering if there's any place I can send 1/4 of my staff, so they can get infected and start quarantine, right now? (And hopefully, they'll be immune, a month from now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, redskinss said: so I'd imagine if this gets as crazy as it could they'll put her back in the e.r. because her clinical experience will be too valuable to waste. If it gets crazy they’re going to be calling on anyone with an active license and if it gets even crazier they’re going to ask for anyone that held one at any point in time. italy is reporting 10% hospitalization rates. We already know it’s incredibly infectious. Do the math. We do not have the infrastructure. We don’t have the hospitals, the beds, the monitors, the ventilators, the nurses... it’s not possible. they’re expecting 70% infection rate within months. 10% hospitalization. Do the math. It’s not possible to handle. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Larry said: Off the wall idea, but I'm wondering. If I were in charge of a hospital, and my job is to try to figure out how I'm going to deal with a (10%? 50%? 100%?) increase in patient load, simultaneous with half my staff being ordered to self-quarantine, I might be wondering if there's any place I can send 1/4 of my staff, so they can get infected and start quarantine, right now? (And hopefully, they'll be immune, a month from now.) That's definitely some outside the box thinking. I can't imagine it'd be safe to "vaccinate" part of your staff by subjecting them to the disease. But then again I'm not the expert here I'm a crane operator. Edited March 11, 2020 by redskinss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Larry said: Off the wall idea, but I'm wondering. If I were in charge of a hospital, and my job is to try to figure out how I'm going to deal with a (10%? 50%? 100%?) increase in patient load, simultaneous with half my staff being ordered to self-quarantine, I might be wondering if there's any place I can send 1/4 of my staff, so they can get infected and start quarantine, right now? (And hopefully, they'll be immune, a month from now.) I thought I read a week or so ago about a case where a previously infected person was RE-infected. So that getting the virus once doesn't make you immune. Yep: here's an article. It's not happening a lot, but it does occur: https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-risk-of-reinfection-2020-2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Kinda wish I had 10 bottles of hand soap on hand right about now. All this hand washing going on, folks are gonna be running through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Liberal rag National Review questions Trump's leadership on issue: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/president-trump-needs-to-step-up-on-the-coronavirus/amp/?__twitter_impression=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Dan T. said: I thought I read a week or so ago about a case where a previously infected person was RE-infected. So that getting the virus once doesn't make you immune. Yep: here's an article. It's not happening a lot, but it does occur: https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-risk-of-reinfection-2020-2 I feel like there's not enough discussion about this. Perhaps because not enough is known, but whether you can get reinfected by the same thing seems like critical info. 2 minutes ago, hail2skins said: Liberal rag National Review questions Trump's leadership on issue: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/president-trump-needs-to-step-up-on-the-coronavirus/amp/?__twitter_impression=true How does somebody NOT question it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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