The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[CommDownMan]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

okay, thanks. 

 

However we could have more because remember in early December there were rumors the cap could be higher than the 175 million base, with 195 listed as the best case scenario

 

while that helps all the other teams in the division too, Dallas would only have 4 mill f they franchise Dak and Philly will still be 54 million over the cap

 

I think a halfway split of 10 million to get it around 185 would have the benefit of helping us a lot and them very little

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/06/optimism-emerges-regarding-2021-salary-cap/

 

Also, one thing to note is that the team likely knows 175 vs 195 or whatever.  (At least the minimum value, because the Players Association would only try to negotiate higher).  So if they submit 185 mill they know they'll have more room.

 

"Although a projected cap typically is shared with all owners in December, the final decision isn’t made until late February or early March, through negotiations with the NFL Players Association."

 

Also, if lower there would be a larger number of vets that would get cut.  We don't need a lot of older guys, but a few more Darby/KPL type deals might reduce the need to sign Darby to 10ish (like Flowers leaving at 3/30 and getting Wes Schweitzer at 3/13.5).  I think this is the value that Kyle SMith can bring that we all don't see as fans.  I use the top 100 list because it is a decent starting point, but they can find deals with better values seeing untapped potential. 

[carex]

7 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/06/optimism-emerges-regarding-2021-salary-cap/

 

Also, one thing to note is that the team likely knows 175 vs 195 or whatever.  (At least the minimum value, because the Players Association would only try to negotiate higher).  So if they submit 185 mill they know they'll have more room.

 

"Although a projected cap typically is shared with all owners in December, the final decision isn’t made until late February or early March, through negotiations with the NFL Players Association."

 

Also, if lower there would be a larger number of vets that would get cut.  We don't need a lot of older guys, but a few more Darby/KPL type deals might reduce the need to sign Darby to 10ish (like Flowers leaving at 3/30 and getting Wes Schweitzer at 3/13.5).  I think this is the value that Kyle SMith can bring that we all don't see as fans.  I use the top 100 list because it is a decent starting point, but they can find deals with better values seeing untapped potential. 

 

well, the only way it would be lower than the number we got quote above is if they for some reason decided to deny rollover.  The 175 million base has already been agreed to as the floor, it is set in stone

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I think this discounts the fact that the larger cap hits happen in the years we need to re-up McLaurin, Payne, Allen.

Yeah, I started to type out more about the down-the-road contracts like Terry, Sweat, and even Chase (not to mention guys like Gibson, Curl, Holcomb, etc), but I didn’t want to get too into the weeds.  Pushing off significant portions of contracts, particularly guaranteed money, could come back to bite us.  Of course, some of these contracts (Scherff and Darby for instance) could be more like 3 year deals - allowing them another pay day prior to hitting their 30’s - which could alleviate those space for those later contract extensions.... as you know.

 

@jsharrin55  You make some good points, and you’re right that I was being very conservative.  Partly I was trying to bring a dose of realism to those calling for A. Robinson, Scherff, a top ILB, a high end FS, and then some...  It’s not impossible, but it felt like they are at least somewhat discounting the future cost/effect of 1) using all available cap space, 2) pushing contract money out, and 3) our future re-signings.

 

 

FYI, as I mentioned, the 40 mil cap space was based on an estimated 192mil cap.

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

FYI, as I mentioned, the 40 mil cap space was based on an estimated 192mil cap

I’m guessing that number is 175mil cap for 2021 plus our 2020 rolllover of 17mil at present?

 

 

35 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

Also, one thing to note is that the team likely knows 175 vs 195 or whatever.  (At least the minimum value, because the Players Association would only try to negotiate higher).  So if they submit 185 mill they know they'll have more room.

Having a base cap coming in at 195mil certainly opens up more options. That plus our 17mil rollover and extra 14mil from cutting Smith should land us 60-65mil in space.

 

Coming from another angles, the 195mil would actually help a lot of teams out. There are a load of teams in worse shape that us. You could argue a base of 175mil benefits us more, as we retain a competitive advantage over many more teams in terms of space. 

[skinny21]

12 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I’m guessing that number is 175mil cap for 2021 plus our 2020 rolllover of 17mil at present?

 

 

Having a base cap coming in at 195mil certainly opens up more options. That plus our 17mil rollover and extra 14mil from cutting Smith should land us 60-65mil in space.

 

Coming from another angles, the 195mil would actually help a lot of teams out. There are a load of teams in worse shape that us. You could argue a base of 175mil benefits us more, as we retain a competitive advantage over many more teams in terms of space. 

Ah, I think you’re right... just double checked and I think I read Adjusted Salary cap (192) as Estimated Salary cap.  My bad folks.

 

On a related note, I wonder if we see the lower cap affect contracts in terms of less competition/demand... hmm...

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

Robinson going to earn some coin. Has he got any obvious links/connections in the league.

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

Not saying we should do all of this, but I do think we can be more aggressive than you think.

ultimately our position will be dictated by what we do at QB. A major high end QB contract will consume a good 40-50% of our cap space. You could go QB,WR and Scherff. Modest extension for Moses creates space. Even reworking Collins deal. Hell, if he gets fit his 2021 injury guarantee goes away and we may cut him. Marginal gain, but I’d wager Ron is happy to start Curl.
 

Then draft LBx2, DB, RB, WR/TE or similar.

 

Got to remember neither Heinicke nor Allen are under contract yet.

 

We have options. Lots of them. Might need an established QB to get a top receiver. Don’t know.

 

Heinicke, Allen, Lance sounds nice though.

[PartyPosse]

5 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Love the idea of a Ross reclamation! Funny, his name has been linked to Washington for years (due to the Gruden connection). He would give us the home run hitter needed and already upgrading the current receivers at a low cost. Would give the team a lot of cap space to play with bringing in another FA or draft pick WR and a TE.

 

Cool. Just what we need. Another receiver that drops half the balls thrown his way.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Robinson going to earn some coin. Has he got any obvious links/connections in the league.

 

To give some props to Cooley he really touted the heck out of Robinson when he hit FA years back to the extent that Robinson thanked Cooley on twitter for it.    Robinson's stock was down then coming off of an injury.    Robinson then wasn't who he is now.

 

I liked Robinson then but thought Richardson would be the better get on the cheap in comparison.  Get a dude on the rise, etc.  I was wrong.  So I am not doubling down on the same mistake again. 

 

I get cap concerns, etc.  But I'll leave it to them to figure out.  What I am focused on is they have even more cap room this time and they swung for the fences for Cooper last time.  Robinson >>> Cooper.   If they have the same approach again then to me Robinson is the top get.    If we had both Terry and Robinson we'd instantly go from arguably the weakest WR corp in the league to one of the best.  Robinson IMO is that good.   And yeah I think he's even better then Terry. 

[carex]

I'm looking for a compliment for Terry, not a new WR1

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, carex said:

I'm looking for a compliment for Terry, not a new WR1

 

 I don't look at the spot like that.  There are teams that have multiple studs at WR.  We just aren't one of those teams.    It's not like the old days.  These days its a passing league where you can have multiple receivers feast.   

 

As probably the #1 card carrying fan for Terry, I liked him before we even drafted him, and stood in line for an hour with my kid so he can get his autograph before the last SB -- I don't think Terry will suffer but will actually be helped by having another threat so he's not bracketed (doubled teamed) the way he was this year in multiple games. 

 

[carex]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 I don't look at the spot like that.  There are teams that have multiple studs at WR.  We just aren't one of those teams.    It's not like the old days.  These days its a passing league where you can have multiple receivers feast.   

 

As probably the #1 card carrying fan for Terry, I liked him before we even drafted him, and stood in line for an hour with my kid so he can get his autograph before the last SB -- I don't think Terry will suffer but will actually be helped by having another threat so he's not bracketed (doubled teamed) the way he was this year in multiple games. 

 

I just think it would be better for the team capwise to deal with it like that

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, carex said:

I just think it would be better for the team capwise to deal with it like that

 

As for the cap, I am assuming their aggressive move for Cooper last off season didn't have anything to do with lack of love about Terry but they were on the quest to build some serious fire power with the passing game.  If they double down on that approach, Robinson would be my favorite get.  I liked Godwin as my 2nd favorite get among the receivers but his "meh" performance against us has soured me some on him. 

 

For me I want a weapon in the passing game who at a minimum can take over if Terry is down and at a maximum bring back our passing game which was prolific back in the Garcon/D Jax. Reed/Crowder days.  IMO we are too dependant on Antonio and Terry and need more.  

 

[Est.1974]

If we were to release Collins with a post 1 June designation, we will clear 13mil in 2021 cap space. Ok, it pushes a significant amount of dead cap back into 2022, but it may be a consideration depending on what the salary cap trend is expected to be.

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

IMO we are too dependant on Antonio and Terry and need more.  

 

injuries to both really exposed us. For 2021:

 

We need to draft a complimentary back for Gibson. Bruising back. 
We need to acquire a top FA receiver and dip into the deep draft pool for another.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

The Cap is the most over blown thing people fret about in football. Sign ARobinson, seems like it would be $ well spent. You can still do everything you want to do via a vis, Scherff/LB/QB these capoligists can figure out a way to make it work.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

injuries to both really exposed us. For 2021:

 

We need to draft a complimentary back for Gibson. Bruising back. 
We need to acquire a top FA receiver and dip into the deep draft pool for another.

 

This team strikes me in some ways similar to the team 15 years ago that beat Tampa in the playoffs.  Then, we had a really good defense.  But we didn't have a solution at QB.  Our offense was basically Portis, Cooley, Moss.

 

And their solution was:  Randle El and Brandon Lloyd.  Both guys were sort of in theory maybe emerging guys.  They ended up being "meh" and the offensive woes continued.

 

We've done better when we've swung harder for the fences:  Garcon, D. Jax.  Going after in theory of cheaper/emerging receivers not so much:  Andre Roberts, Paul Richardson, David Patten, Terelle Pryor, Brain Quick, Josh Morgan, Randle El, Brandon Lloyd and others.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Seriously, when is it ok to start a 2021 FA thread ?

After the SB ? Or sooner ? Or later ?

The benefit to doing that is the thread title begins to be a lot easier to read.

 

[carex]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for the cap, I am assuming their aggressive move for Cooper last off season didn't have anything to do with lack of love about Terry but they were on the quest to build some serious fire power with the passing game.  If they double down on that approach, Robinson would be my favorite get.  I liked Godwin as my 2nd favorite get among the receivers but his "meh" performance against us has soured me some on him. 

 

For me I want a weapon in the passing game who at a minimum can take over if Terry is down and at a maximum bring back our passing game which was prolific back in the Garcon/D Jax. Reed/Crowder days.  IMO we are too dependant on Antonio and Terry and need more.  

 

 

you're overlooking Logan Thomas, and I think we can get serious firepower in the offense with less than the top available FA WR.  And several of these guys look like they've already emerged more than Lloyd And Randle El

[actorguy1]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, carex said:

 

you're overlooking Logan Thomas, and I think we can get serious firepower in the offense with less than the top available FA WR.  And several of these guys look like they've already emerged more than Lloyd And Randle El

 

I am not overlooking him.  As I said above this team reminds me a lot of the one from 15 years ago that played Tampa in the playoffs.   We got a WR, a TE and a RB. 

 

According to football outsiders we have the worst offense in the NFL playoffs history since they started recording stats.  This offense's battery doesn't just need a little boost IMO, it needs a supercharge.  It needs IMO one more star.   Another dish.  Not just side dishes. 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

10 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

 

Huh ?

Is that the quickest that a coach has ever been fired, after becoming Super Bowl champions ?

Surely, it's not because of tanking. Because that got them a better draft pick. And the people that do the firing appreciate a higher draft pick, more than anyone else does.

My guess is he "lost" the locker room. Because I heard the players were so angry with him pulling Hurts in our game, that they had to be restrained.

When multiple players have to be restrained from their coach, that's not a good sign.

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not overlooking him.  As I said above this team reminds me a lot of the one from 15 years ago that played Tampa in the playoffs.   We got a WR, a TE and a RB. 

 

According to football outsiders we have the worst offense in the NFL playoffs history since they started recording stats.  This offense's battery doesn't just need a little boost IMO, it needs a supercharge.  It needs IMO one more star.   Another dish.  Not just side dishes. 

 

The looks Terry would get with Robinson taking up coverage would be silly. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I just posted this over in the QB thread, but it fits here best ...

 

Per OTC, our 2021 Cap Space with a released Alex Smith is $57m. This is $176m based cap + $22m rollover and a cap of $198m.

But our cap space in 2022 and 2023 is $133m and $177m. Obviously both of those numbers will go down as you add rookie pool and 2021 free agents, but it's not like we have any major issues with money in the future. We could add Samuel and Lavonte David, bring back Scherff, Darby, Kyle Allen and Heinecke ... and still have $77m in 2022 and $118m in 2023. That is plenty of $$ to re-sign guys like Allen, Payne, McLaurin when the time comes.

 

If we choose to go QB in the 1st round to pair with Allen/Heinecke, then we are even better positioned ... with low cap $$ committed to QB for the next 4-5 years, which is gold in the NFL. It would allow you to sign all the guys you have going forward if you so choose to. And if you keep drafting well, you can eventually let guys like Landon Collins go and save some big $$ there too.

 

We don't have any high-priced players at QB, WR, EDGE or LT ... which are all premier and expensive positions. Sweat and Chase won't be owed any big money until 2022 and 2023, and we have almost no $$ committed in those years.