Burgold Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said: Bend the knee and kiss the ring. One day I will be wrong. Today is not that day... Didn't you also strenuously argue that Haskins went to Danny and was forcing Rivera to hire KOC and that O'Connell's hiring would mark the beginning of the end because the meddling would already have started? It may not have been you, but I thought I associated your name with that screed. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I get the impression that KOC was noncommittal about continuing his time with the Skins. That he’d rather work with McDaniels (his bud), OBJ, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, and Mayfield. Why I assume this is because they’ve made sure it’s out there that he’s boys with McDaniels and would be tabbed as his OC in whatever job he gets. Everyone knows the “word on the street” even if sometimes they pretend they keep their heads in the sand. Going with someone younger and up and coming is not a surprise given his familiarity with Turner. Ron knows what he can do and not do having worked with Him for 3 years. I’m totally fine with the decision. Overall Offensive systems and coaching is trending way younger in the NFL., at least seems that way. I think the two guys are very similar. They are both well regarded young offensive minds. Turner has more experience in coaching while KOC has more experience playing football at a high level. Turner has the better pedigree given his dads success in the NFL, while KOC has the year with Haskins under his belt to bring to the table. I don’t know for certain we are missing out on something special with KOC while At the same time it cannot be discounted that we may have hired someone special in regards to Turner. I’m 100% on board with what Ron wants to do because that’s what we’ve brought him here for. Set his staff and plan in place and begin to execute it. Change is part of life, QBs either got it or don’t, not too worried about Haskins because If Turner has his stuff together he will make sure to cater the offense to what DH likes and does well, within his philosophy and design of the offense. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poindexter Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, Burgold said: I'll be honest, I still don't what to make of KOC and don't know if he's good or bad. Given uncertainty, I can't fault Rivera for going after his own guy. Sounds like he gave Kevin a chance to wow him and didn't or gave him a chance to wow him and realized that KOC wanted to go elsewhere. Agreed....KOC most likely didn't impress whether it was on the chalk board or if he just wasn't committed to staying for a few season. Regardless, we have a young coach in Turner who will likely not be coveted at least for 3 plus seasons. Turner equals stability and will certainly bring along some struggles, but he will be here for a while. Hopefully he can bring his father in as a Sherman Lewis-type offensive consultant.....or bring in an experienced QB Coach who can help coordinate the passing game. It's still early and we have a few more positions to fill, hoping for a lot more experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said: As a courtesy he interviewed him probably a courtesy to Dan if I had to guess. Breer stated Turner was his target from the start. Ron could have kept KOC to empty the trash in the coach’s room if he wanted. KOC was under contract. Ron was introduced on Thursday. It’s now Tuesday. How is that giving KOC the run around? He treated him more than fairly. This thing moved at lightning speed. Usually new staffs are filled in at the Senior Bowl. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28429717/biggest-2020-offseason-needs-all-32-nfl-teams#WSH Quote (Kevin O'Connell has been interviewed twice and remains a strong in-house option, while former Panthers quarterbacks coach Scott Turner also has been interviewed). So courteous, he interviewed KOC twice apparently. For those interested in a more fuller picture, the following report from Hoffman https://thefandc.radio.com/kevin-oconnell-departs-as-redskins-hire-scott-turner Quote When Redskins offensive coordinator Kevin O'Connell found out Ron Rivera was going to be Washington's head coach, he was excited and planned on staying in Washington after a trying year. Rivera was high on O'Connell and the 34-year-old had heard great things about Rivera. The two talked and had terrific conversations, however as the process went forward it became clear the partnership was not going to work out. It did not come from O'Connell having a burning desire to leave, as he has a terrific relationship with Dwayne Haskins and would have loved the chance to keep working with him. However, Rivera started hiring a number of coaches he had worked with in Carolina. As time went on, it was clear O'Connell would not get to fill out his own staff and the two had a discussion and determined they would move in separate directions. That eventual decision to go separate ways was cordial, and a source described the process as going "as good as these things can possibly go." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said: To me, clearly, O'Connell was never Rivera's #1 as some people ran with and apparently Hoffman fueled. But somehow only in washington football club Land does the #5 guy on the depth chart get reported as "Ron's #1." 😀 Haha. Hoffman equivocated on it some. He fueled a narrative that Rivera might want O'Connell but O'Connell might not want in but might. And he strongly implied he got that from O'Connell directly. Finlay was saying after the Rivera hire that he heard he expects O'Connell to stay. Laconfora had a story on January 1st that O'Connell is likely coming back -- Hoffman just about immediately questioned it because he was on the air at the time and I just happened to be listening to it. I just listened to a podcast from Finlay and Keim from today. Keim said there was interest in Shurmur but Shurmur wasn't interested in coming here. Finlay said this could be about O'Connell wanting out, with his podcast partner saying that if O'Connell communicated he's not sure he wants back and wants to wait on what else is out there then Rivera might have been turned off by it. As for what the reality is? You got me. But that's the best I can recall what's been said by some of the reporters covering this. I guess it doesn't matter now since the book is written. Edited January 7, 2020 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Burgold said: Didn't you also strenuously argue that Haskins went to Danny and was forcing Rivera to hire KOC and that O'Connell's hiring would mark the beginning of the end because the meddling would already have started? It may not have been you, but I thought I associated your name with that screed. I argued that if KOC was the hire it was due to meddling. Albert Breer stated that Turner was the target from the beginning. Meaning Ron didn’t want KOC from the start. If he was kept it would have been because of meddling which is 100% accurate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre The Giant Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said: Bend the knee and kiss the ring. One day I will be wrong. Today is not that day... You are so disingenous it makes me want to put you on "ignore". Nobody disagreed KOC might not be the hire. You said if he WAS the hire, it was proof of Snyder meddling. There is and was no evidence of that at all. It was Rivera's decision through and through and always was, which is what everyone else said, and here we are. Your posts on this have been insufferable precisely because you couldn't understand this distinction and why everyone was disagreeing with you. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tomb Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, Poindexter said: Hopefully he can bring his father in as a Sherman Lewis-type offensive consultant..... How well do you think Norv can call Bingo? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, bearrock said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28429717/biggest-2020-offseason-needs-all-32-nfl-teams#WSH So courteous, he interviewed KOC twice apparently. For those interested in a more fuller picture, the following report from Hoffman https://thefandc.radio.com/kevin-oconnell-departs-as-redskins-hire-scott-turner When you’re being courteous to Dan that aligns. Hoffman turned out to be a complete hack on this one and is now backpedaling like the hack that he is. At least he’s changing his tune. Unlike posters in this thread who won’t acknowledge when they were wrong or acknowledge fake stats they posted when called out on them... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: I argued that if KOC was the hire it was due to meddling. Albert Breer stated that Turner was the target from the beginning. Meaning Ron didn’t want KOC from the start. If he was kept it would have been because of meddling which is 100% accurate. Ah! Your argument is that KOC being gone proves your case that Snyder via Haskins demanded KOC stays. In other words, you are arguing that you are right because you were wrong. 2 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) So maybe it was the Ron hires to the offensive staff that was in the offing that was the kicker. Hoffman in his radio segment said he can only say what he's allowed to say and suggested he was holding things back and I guess what he was holding back was that Rivera intended to fill out the offensive coordinator staff. Having said that, its hard to say that Hoffman has a balanced take on it considering he hinted pretty hard in that same radio segment that O'Connell himself was his source. So O'Connell will have his own prism of the events. I am not saying this is wrong but I am guessing that this is likely the O'Connell perspective of the story. https://thefandc.radio.com/kevin-oconnell-departs-as-redskins-hire-scott-turner Ultimately the season's results were enough that Rivera was interested in keeping O'Connell, but as the staff started to fill out it was clear that a unified vision might not be attainable within the offensive staff. As mentioned, O'Connell has a relationship with Turner, but some of the other former Panthers hires were people he did not know. Rivera and O'Connell both believe in having a single vision, but the longer the process went it became clear they may not have one. Rivera also started interviewing other candidates and in return, O'Connell asked to be able to speak to other teams, just in case. That understanding and willingness to communicate helped the eventual separation be as amicable as they can be in the NFL, per a source familiar with the process, however the result is the same – O'Connell is looking for another job. He will not have to look long. O'Connell and Josh McDaniels are very close friends, and O'Connell has described the Patriots offensive coordinator as one of his mentors. They share a vision and it's a near lock that the now former Redskins employee will be McDaniels' offensive coordinator if he lands a head coaching position. If McDaniels does not get a job this round, O'Connell will have options. A source told 106.7 The Fan multiple teams have reached out to O'Connell, who is currently mulling his options while waiting on McDaniels' fate. O'Connell was under contract in Washington and the team did block him from other opportunities last offseason. That was common practice under former team president Bruce Allen, and the cordiality of the process that has ultimately led to this change should be seen as a sign of the changing times in Ashburn. Edited January 7, 2020 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Burgold said: Ah! Your argument is that KOC being gone proves your case that Snyder via Haskins demanded KOC stays. In other words, you are arguing that you are right because you were wrong. I am arguing Ron would never hire KOC as his OC. He was never his target. That is now a fact. If KOC had been hired it would have been at the behest of the only person Ron answers to because Ron didn’t want him. Pretty simple. Everything I stated is 100% accurate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Burgold said: Ah! Your argument is that KOC being gone proves your case that Snyder via Haskins demanded KOC stays. In other words, you are arguing that you are right because you were wrong. Well he is a lawyer so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 "For Haskins, a new OC might not be a good thing. After working for a season with Redskins’ current play-caller Kevin O’Connell, the two have formed a bond and figured out a lot of things that they can get done on the field. When asked about the coaching changes on Monday, Haskins was adamant that he wanted KOC to stick around. It’s quite possible that Rivera is hired on the condition that KOC is kept on as the OC, and the offense is able to continue its steady growth while the defense receives a much-needed makeover. If stability is the goal, then keeping the QB and OC in sync is key." Link So, we're out of sync and still dysfunctional with a new coaching staff ! I'm sick of Haskins going public with his immaturity, no you don't have a say in the coaching staff selection when a new sheriff is in town. Those veteran head coaches are always bringing in their crew. Good way to alienate the new coaching staff, please shut up Dwayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 JP Finlay on just now, he said from what he heard O'Connell wasn't thrilled about the idea of having to do a 2nd interview (after the first) and Rivera wanted to fill out his staff didn't sit well with him so the interview process didn't go hot. So he more or less is running with Hoffman's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, skeenzfan said: He hired a DC he has not worked with and retained the ST coach who he hasn't worked with. How is that bringing the entire staff? Most coaches hire a lot of other coaches they have worked with in the past. McCarthy is hiring Nolan as DC, Bill O'Brien has Romeo Crennel, Mike Vrabel has Dan Pees, Andy Reid just hired Steve Spagnuolo and the list goes on. Yeah it's how the NFL coaching fraternity works. There are loyalties to certain people. I was reading an article on Robert Saleh and his journey through the coaching ranks and it said when he was a QC coach in Seattle and Gus Bradley got the HC job in Jax, Saleh expected to follow him and be the Jags LB Coach. Bradley decided to stick with the LB coach who was already there and Saleh felt betrayed. A year later Bradley brought him to Jax as LB coach. That kind of illustrates how it works. This guy gets a promotion in another city and he works to help promote those guys he grinded with and help push their careers forward. Or it's payback for giving them a job. Norv hired Ron after Ron was fired in Chicago. So Ron helps Norv out with a job after Minnesota and helps push his son's career. That's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) KOC sure as hell sounds like a millennial. How dare you ask me for a second interview? I'm young, I'm handsome, Albert Breer raves about me and our offense didn't look like a disaster for six quarters of football! But seriously, I'm sure he'll do fine going forward. Edited January 7, 2020 by Hooper 3 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: I argued that if KOC was the hire it was due to meddling. Albert Breer stated that Turner was the target from the beginning. Meaning Ron didn’t want KOC from the start. If he was kept it would have been because of meddling which is 100% accurate. spot on analysis, as usual SCS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just because some blogger boys say a coach is great doesn't mean it's true. And the blogger boys always love the young OC's -- they can relate to them. They jocksniff them and are so easily seduced by a five minute one and one with them. Particularly embarrassing with Hoffman and KOC, but it's the norm now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said: All my conjecture was proven to be fact. Admit it and move on. KOC is gone and Ron didn’t want him. If he had stayed it would be a result of meddling because Ron never wanted him. Simple as that. I would say that right now, the simple fact that you have reports about Ron Rivera not being committed to Dwayne Haskins is kinda proff that he was given carte blanche with his team. From all reports, Haskins was a Snyder's pick. If Rivera's allowed to move away from him asap, that's quite an indication of what he's allowed to do with the team. (Don't believe he will move away from him now, but Haskins will have to perform quick or ride the bench). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: JP Finlay on just now, he said from what he heard O'Connell wasn't thrilled about the idea of having to do a 2nd interview (after the first) and Rivera wanted to fill out his staff didn't sit well with him so the interview process didn't go hot. Poor baby... 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hooper said: KOC sure as hell sounds like a millennial. How dare you ask me for a second interview? I'm young, I'm handsome, Albert Breer raves about me and our offense didn't look like a disaster for six quarters of football! But seriously, I'm sure he'll do fine going forward. Hoffman pretty much showed his hand on who his source has been all along - O'Connell, and that's no surprise. Keim, who is much more credible, is saying that he gathers Turner was Rivera's choice/preference from the get-go, not O'Connell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hooper said: KOC sure as hell sounds like a millennial. How dare you ask me for a second interview? I'm young, I'm handsome, Albert Breer raves about me and our offense didn't look like a disaster for six quarters of football! Dont start that old man lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, skinzplay said: Hoffman pretty much showed his hand on who his source has been all along - O'Connell, and that's no surprise. Totally. KOC should have shared the byline with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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