Welcome the Redskins Jack Del Rio---And defensive philosophy

[SkinsFTW]

22 hours ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

Jack Del Rio Mic'd Up in Week 12 Win vs. Panthers (2016)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2zJuEqidJQ&t=184s

 

Near the beginning of the video one of the Raiders drops an easy INT and Del Rio explains it " They didn't grow up playing catch, they grew up playing Madden"

 

Lol.

 

I wonder if he realizes that he now works for an owner who has "grown up" the past 21 years playing Fantasy Football?

 

Lol.

[skinsfan93]

14 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Guess who else had no sacks in their bowl games before coming out?

 

JJ Watt, Khalil Mack, Bradley Chubb, Myles Garrett. Obviously guys who shouldn't have been drafted. 

 

This is just a lazy argument. 

 

As far as the game vs Clemson did you watch it? If so did you focus on Chase? If so did you focus on how they were game planning for him? If so did you see how it affected Clemson's game? Chase still had 7 pressures in that game, despite being completely game planned for and getting doubled often. That is all the absolute polar opposite of being "non-existent".

 

You don't pass on an edge rusher of Chase Young's caliber if you have a chance to draft him. He's the highest graded PFF defensive player they've ever done metrics for and has a ludicrous edge positional score of 97. For reference that's 3 full points better than Nick Bosa, who was considered a can't miss prospect and who's presence even as a rookie has been instrumental in transforming the SF defense from decent to dominant. We're insanely lucky that possibly the best pass rushing prospect in the past 10 years has fallen into our lap. 

 

Chase has been dominant this season, and has an effect even when he doesn't get sacks. Entire offenses have to be adjusted because of him. Corner isn't nearly as valuable a position as edge rusher. There's a reason that edge rushers are second only to QBs in the contracts they get. 

First I did watch the entire Clemson game and focused on Young. Someone mentioned he’s a generational pass rusher. Then someone with that moniker should have had more of an impact than zero sacks and 7 pressures. 
 

The guys you mentioned were not as highly regarded coming out of school except for Myles Garrett and he hasn’t done squat yet in the pros. Watt developed into what he is and Mack had questions coming out of a small school. 
 

My point is that why draft a guy at #2 when we have guys who can play end and we have major holes in our secondary to fill. I’m tired of getting a high ticket free agent at corner compared to drafting a young guy and developing him. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, skinsfan93 said:

First I did watch the entire Clemson game and focused on Young. Someone mentioned he’s a generational pass rusher. Then someone with that moniker should have had more of an impact than zero sacks and 7 pressures. 
 

The guys you mentioned were not as highly regarded coming out of school except for Myles Garrett and he hasn’t done squat yet in the pros. Watt developed into what he is and Mack had questions coming out of a small school. 
 

My point is that why draft a guy at #2 when we have guys who can play end and we have major holes in our secondary to fill. I’m tired of getting a high ticket free agent at corner compared to drafting a young guy and developing him. 

 

Why draft a secondary guy in the top 5 when we have guys who can play corner? Same argument. Because the top 5 guy is a superior talent and could become a potential game changer, especially if he happens to be the highest rated ever at his position and is unanimously seen as easily one of the best prospects to come out in the last decade (by people who know what they're talking about). 

 

So you only look at sack numbers? Do you realize how much of an impact pressures have? They game planned around Young and he was doubled quite a bit and he STILL had 7 pressures. Oh but he didn't have a sack. So if he had 0 pressures and 1 sack that would make you happy and tell you he's good?

 

Also.....Myles Garrett hasn't done squat? You mean besides have 30.5 sacks in 37 games? Besides being an All Pro his second season in the NFL? This is insanity. 

 

[NoVaSkins21]

On 1/1/2020 at 5:28 PM, NoCalMike said:

Look how different Montez Sweat looked as a player as soon as they let him rush the passer.  Dude was wreaking havoc on the other side of the line constantly. 

 

The thought of Sweat on one side and Chase Young (hopefully) on the other in Del Rio's 4-3 defense is just a salivating thought.  

[NoCalMike]

I am not qualified to be an NFL scout, also I don't watch a lot of college football.  However, I do in general, subscribe to the idea that you don't pass on a great player because you already have good players.   A great player can transform those good players into very good players.  Sometimes 1-2 studs can make the difference.  

 

The 49ers are largely the same team on offense they were last year.  Run the ball, throw a lot to Kittle....hope someone else gets open when he is covered.  What has changed is the defense.  They went from a solid, respectable defense, with a lot of good players, to BEASTS.  Why?  Nick Bosa.   This is like their 2011-2014ish teams where a player like Aldon Smith was seen as one of the most effective pass rushers in the NFL......as long as the actual stud, Justin Smith was taking on double teams.

 

 

[MartinC]

39 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I am not qualified to be an NFL scout, also I don't watch a lot of college football.  However, I do in general, subscribe to the idea that you don't pass on a great player because you already have good players.   A great player can transform those good players into very good players.  Sometimes 1-2 studs can make the difference.  

 

The 49ers are largely the same team on offense they were last year.  Run the ball, throw a lot to Kittle....hope someone else gets open when he is covered.  What has changed is the defense.  They went from a solid, respectable defense, with a lot of good players, to BEASTS.  Why?  Nick Bosa.   This is like their 2011-2014ish teams where a player like Aldon Smith was seen as one of the most effective pass rushers in the NFL......as long as the actual stud, Justin Smith was taking on double teams.

 

 

Bosa has had a big impact on the 49ers defense. But you wouldn’t know it from just scouting him by the stats sheet. He had 9 sacks and 47 tackles. (Sweat had 7 sacks and 50 tackles). But Bosa also impacted blocking schemes and teams had to game plan for him - just like Clemson did against Young (pretty much every running play was away from Young and he was doubled on every pass play apart from the designed quick throws). Having a player like Young impacts a game beyond just what he produces - everyone else eats because of him.

 

Sweat could have a HUGE year with Young opposite him.

[HTTRDynasty]

Next year is huge for Sweat’s development. I hope we hire a DL coach who has a history developing raw but gifted pass rushers.  As you can see in the video below, Sweat’s sacks this season mostly came from beating TE’s, chasing down the QB from behind, or coverage sacks. 
 

I want to see him consistently beat OT’s around the edge and get to the QB in less than 2.5 seconds. I doubt he’ll ever be a player that has the bend to be truly elite (he’s too stiff for that), but if he can learn to develop a better first step and rush plan, and learn to effectively use his hands, he could be very good, especially given the talent around him. 

 

Definitely room for improvement:

We’ll have a guy next year (Young) who should be in the upper right quadrant. I’d want to see 2020 Sweat in the same quadrant as 2019 Preston Smith at the very least. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

15 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Near the beginning of the video one of the Raiders drops an easy INT and Del Rio explains it " They didn't grow up playing catch, they grew up playing Madden"

 

Lol.

 

I wonder if he realizes that he now works for an owner who has "grown up" the past 21 years playing Fantasy Football?

 

Lol.

 

I love that line.  

[clskinsfan]

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Next year is huge for Sweat’s development. I hope we hire a DL coach who has a history developing raw but gifted pass rushers.  As you can see in the video below, Sweat’s sacks this season mostly came from beating TE’s, chasing down the QB from behind, or coverage sacks. 
 

I want to see him consistently beat OT’s around the edge and get to the QB in less than 2.5 seconds. I doubt he’ll ever be a player that has the bend to be truly elite (he’s too stiff for that), but if he can learn to develop a better first step and rush plan, and learn to effectively use his hands, he could be very good, especially given the talent around him. 

Definitely room for improvement:We’ll have a guy next year (Young) who should be in the upper right quadrant. I’d want to see 2020 Sweat in the same quadrant as 2019 Preston Smith at the very least. 

 

The thing I loved seeing from Sweat this year was progress. He got better as the season went on. Especially against the run. If we draft Young Sweat will always be singled. He is going to need to put on a few pounds for 4-3 end IMO. But the guy has the frame to do it and maintain his speed. 

[skinny21]

On 1/2/2020 at 2:08 PM, Riggo#44 said:

 

This makes me like it all the more. G&D have proven time and time again they are ****ing morons.

 

Nicholson has been terrible--but how much of that was Manusky? It never seemed as if anyone was on the same page--ever. I'm willing to give Del Rio the benefit of the doubt--he is the best DC we've had here since Williams.

Exactly.  Somehow left this out when it was meant to be my major point - is he someone that could have a turnaround under Del Rio.  

[Riggo#44]

12 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Young Sweat

 

That sounds like a late-night Skinemax movie.

[crabbypatty]

On 1/2/2020 at 7:42 PM, skinsfan93 said:

First I did watch the entire Clemson game and focused on Young. Someone mentioned he’s a generational pass rusher. Then someone with that moniker should have had more of an impact than zero sacks and 7 pressures. 
 

The guys you mentioned were not as highly regarded coming out of school except for Myles Garrett and he hasn’t done squat yet in the pros. Watt developed into what he is and Mack had questions coming out of a small school. 
 

My point is that why draft a guy at #2 when we have guys who can play end and we have major holes in our secondary to fill. I’m tired of getting a high ticket free agent at corner compared to drafting a young guy and developing him. 

One minor quibble, Khalil Mack was highly regarded, but there were some concerns about him being from a small school like Toledo and how that would translate to the NFL. He put that to rest though. Same to an extent with Donald and Pitt.. and look what he's done.

 

I do agree though, the more I watch the guy he is a true difference maker. Look what a guy like Von Miller did in the SB against Cam & co.. he singlehandedly destroyed their gameplan and wrecked their season.

If chase is a guy like that?? Sign me up post haste.

[crabbypatty]

On 1/3/2020 at 9:44 AM, clskinsfan said:

 

The thing I loved seeing from Sweat this year was progress. He got better as the season went on. Especially against the run. If we draft Young Sweat will always be singled. He is going to need to put on a few pounds for 4-3 end IMO. But the guy has the frame to do it and maintain his speed. 

 

Hopefully JDR will have him playing downhill next year with his ears pinned back.

For a rookie, 50 tackles, 7 sacks and 2 FF is pretty damn good individually.

 

[megared]

On 1/3/2020 at 4:44 AM, HTTRDynasty said:

I’d want to see 2020 Sweat in the same quadrant as 2019 Preston Smith at the very least. 

 

The difference between them is the y axis (defined as percentage of time a matchup is won within 2.5 seconds).  Maybe that would improve with him not being lined up weakside, but that's mostly an ability thing. 

 

And the only reason P. Smith isn't in the right-hand quadrant is because they have an even better rusher, in Z. Smith.

 

Sweat needs to improve his strength and technique in order to win matchups. There was also criticism of his alignment and hand placement.  For all of the love given to Tomsula, I'm not sure how that was even allowed to happen.  

[HTTRDynasty]

9 minutes ago, megared said:

 

The difference between them is the y axis (defined as percentage of time a matchup is won within 2.5 seconds).  Maybe that would improve with him not being lined up weakside, but that's mostly an ability thing. 

 

Right.  I think that win rate would definitely improved with him lined up against the RT.

 

11 minutes ago, megared said:

And the only reason P. Smith isn't in the right-hand quadrant is because they have an even better rusher, in Z. Smith.

 

Yep, which would be a similar situation with Sweat and Young, which is why I made that comparison.

 

11 minutes ago, megared said:

Sweat needs to improve his strength and technique in order to win matchups. There was also criticism of his alignment and hand placement.  For all of the love given to Tomsula, I'm not sure how that was even allowed to happen.  

 

Tomsula didn't coach the OLB's.  That was Chad Grimm - this guy:

 

[megared]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Right.  I think that win rate would definitely improved with him lined up against the RT.

 

I don't think it'll represent the difference between being subpar (2nd worst) at winning matchups and being elite at it.  The bigger problem is the fact that he isn't even league average (which to me indicates he wasn't ready to start).  Things like alignment, hand placement, leverage also hint that he wasn't properly coached up.  

 

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Yep, which would be a similar situation with Sweat and Young, which is why I made that comparison.

 

Yea, but Sweat isn't the pass rusher P. Smith is yet.  

 

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Tomsula didn't coach the OLB's.  That was Chad Grimm - this guy:

 

I'd just imagine there'd be some interaction when Sweat was lining up in a 3 point stance.  

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I don't think it'll represent the difference between being subpar (2nd worst) at winning matchups and being elite at it.  The bigger problem is the fact that he isn't even league average (which to me indicates he wasn't ready to start).  Things like alignment, hand placement, leverage also hint that he wasn't properly coached up.  

 

Yeah, I agree.  That's why I posted this before I anything else:

 

"Next year is huge for Sweat’s development. I hope we hire a DL coach who has a history developing raw but gifted pass rushers.  As you can see in the video below, Sweat’s sacks this season mostly came from beating TE’s, chasing down the QB from behind, or coverage sacks. 
 

I want to see him consistently beat OT’s around the edge and get to the QB in less than 2.5 seconds. I doubt he’ll ever be a player that has the bend to be truly elite (he’s too stiff for that), but if he can learn to develop a better first step and rush plan, and learn to effectively use his hands, he could be very good, especially given the talent around him."

 

I think his development heading into next year, in conjunction with having Chase Young lined up opposite him, could realistically move him into that upper left quadrant.  The DL coach we hire is going to be a huge point of interest for me.

 

It's also interesting to note how much teams focused on doubling Ioannidis, and how much better he did than Allen/Payne/Kerrigan/Sweat despite that.  I'm excited to see how much better he can be if he sees less double teams with Young on the DL.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I just watched most of the defense just now in one of Del Rio's games as a coordinator.   It's just one game so it might not generalize to his other games but it might.

 

Based on that one, he didn't blitz much, but liked to use stunts to create pressure.  the 2nd clip is part of the process of a stunt.  He likes to stack two edge rushers right on top of each other, like in clip one which I saw multiple times.  Mark Bullock said he prefers an under front looks in the 4-3 which resembles a 3-4.  The last two clips show that.

 

so my amateur take on this is I think he'd have fun if they'd draft Young (though what coordinator wouldn't?) you can put Sweat and Young stacked to together on one side lets say and Kerrigan on the other side where sometimes you send them all at the QB and other times you pull back one. So as Bullock said in his write up, you still might see our edge rushers on occasion in coverage.  

 

As for the under front stuff.  I could see Payne playing nose (1) on the strong side.  Ioannidis playing 5 on the strong side.   Kerrigan edge on the strong side and hopefully Chase Young standing up coming from OLB (the way they'd use von Miller on occasion) On the weak side.  Allen playing 3.  And Sweat coming off the edge. 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

so my amateur take on this is I think he'd have fun if they'd draft Young (though what coordinator wouldn't?) you can put Sweat and Young stacked to together on one side lets say and Kerrigan on the other side where sometimes you send them all at the QB and other times you pull back one. So as Bullock said in his write up, you still might see our edge rushers on occasion in coverage.  

 

As for the under front stuff.  I could see Payne playing nose (1) on the strong side.  Ioannidis playing 5 on the strong side.   Kerrigan edge on the strong side and hopefully Chase Young standing up coming from OLB (the way they'd use von Miller on occasion) On the weak side.  Allen playing 3.  And Sweat coming off the edge. 

 

Here's a visual of the 4-3 Under front (taken from the Bullock article) 

 

 

I'm not worried (not saying you are) about Young having to play coverage at times if he takes on the Von Miller role at SAM in our base package.  Von had the highest sack output of his career in 2012 (18.5), which was Del Rio's first year in Denver.  Though it helped that he was mostly playing with a lead with Peyton Manning at QB.  Still, I trust Del Rio is smart enough to put his players in the best position to succeed, unlike Manusky.

[Skinsinparadise]

Here's an article from this year about Rivera on defense. 

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/Article/Ron-Rivera-Panthers-2019-Preview-133504200/

 

If you're a defense and if all you do is one thing, and every time they line up and they know exactly where you're gonna be, they know exactly how you're gonna line up - Preparation's easy," explained Rivera during a February appearance on WFNZ's The Mac Attack. "Now all of a sudden, you start throwing elements in of a 30 front, you start throwing elements in of the Bear front and in your base front, now they've got to prepare for more than one thing. So looking at what can help us, what's been successful in the past, I think we've got to sit there and incorporate those into who we're gonna become as a defense.

 

"You've got to be multi-front. You've got to be multi-faceted in terms of how you want to cover, and then how you want to attack in terms of being aggressive with blitzes, line stunts, and different types of pressures ... I don't want to say I've looked at every play from last year, but I've looked at a good number of the plays. In particular, certain games where I do recall going and using the 30 front and saying 'You know what, look at what it's done to their blocking scheme. Look at how they've had to adjust. We can attack certain ways.'"

 

There was no greater illustration of what a Rivera-led defense is capable of than in Week 15 of last season, when the Panthers faced the very sort of offense that their system seeks to stop: On their way to the NFC Championship Game, the Sean Payton-led New Orleans Saints drove defensive coordinators to the point of madness with an offense that scored 504 total points and breached the 40 point barrier six times. But against the Panthers, the Saints' juggernaut of an offense would be held to just 12 points.

 

In implementing the Panthers' new system, Rivera stated that he studied some of the top defenses in the NFL: Namely those fielded by the Houston Texans, Los Angeles Rams, and Chicago Bears. And not only that, but he has also targeted a specific sort of new personnel for the Panthers' defense, acquiring players who are capable of playing at multiple positions: Namely Brian Burns, Bruce Irvin, and Christian Miller, all of whom can play both defensive end and linebacker.

 

In the Spring, the Panthers took their first major steps in learning Rivera's system during the installation period of OTAs and minicamp. And Rivera - who knows good defense when he sees it, having played on the 1985 Bears' legendary 46 Defense before leading other defenses to Super Bowls as a coach - has already seen a difference in Carolina's play.

 

"Position-wise, I just really like the development of speed on the defensive side," said Rivera. "I think we're faster than we've ever been."

 

Rivera assuming control of the Panthers defense is no small development, as it places far more of the responsibility for the Panthers' success or failure on him. During the 2018 season, though certain things were out of Rivera's control - namely injuries - plenty more was in his control. In a "torturous" re-evaluation of himself following the season, Rivera reflected on many of the things he did wrong that contributed to the Panthers' skid from 6-2 at midseason to 7-9 at season's end: He should have recognized the wheels were coming off earlier than he did, and he should have corrected issues on the defensive coaching staff well before he did so following a Week 13 loss. But most of all, he believes that he got away from what he believed as a head coach: A philosophy that made him the NFL's Coach of the 

 

"Stick to what you know, and do it," Rivera told the Charlotte Observer in February. "Somewhere along the line last year, I kind of got away from what I believed. You do the same thing for eight years, and you get in that comfort zone, 'This is what we do and this is how we do it.'

"I have to evolve, I have to change. This team has to evolve, this team has to change. ... I’ve got to step up. I’ve got to set the standard."

[Skinsinparadise]

I am trying to piece together who would be the Sam in a 4-3?  In theory, one of current OLBs, Kerrigan or Sweat should be able to do it but neither cover great.

 

Holcomb MLB

Foster or Hamilton Weakside (Will) LB. 

 

The one fit i think missing is a natural strong side (Sam) LB. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to an ESPN reporter who covered Del Rio talk about him on Keim's podcast.

 

Cliff notes:

 

A.  He likes him overall as a coordinator

B.  If there was a complaint about him was that he wasn't aggressive

C.  likes to use his D tackles to clog the middle and 2 gap

D.  Was good for Von Miller, moved him around the D line to take advantage of mishaps

E.  Doesn't blitz a lot, prefers 4 man rushes

F.  He likes to have his corners play man

G.  He has the reputation of being stuck on his ways but the reporter thinks that description is unfair -- says he's adaptable but he just doesn't talk about it much

 

 

[Riggo#44]

Envying the Vikings defense--assuming the draft Chase Young, how legitimately close are we to that?

[LD0506]

37 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Envying the Vikings defense--assuming the draft Chase Young, how legitimately close are we to that?

 

Give RR and JDR a year and then ask that question....