Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Daniel.redskins]

Please. All these people acting like they are not concerned by the lack of production by the d-line.  As I said, just read this thread from last summer. 

 

I'm at the point that I feel a good team is built around the qb and linebackers.  Pittsburgh and Baltimore always draft linebackers.  Always always.  I think the dominate d-line theory didn't work and will not work.  That's why I'm upset.  I was fooled.  

 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Please. All these people acting like they are not concerned by the lack of production by the d-line.  As I said, just read this thread from last summer. 

 

I'm at the point that I feel a good team is built around the qb and linebackers.  Pittsburgh and Baltimore always draft linebackers.  Always always.  I think the dominate d-line theory didn't work and will not work.  That's why I'm upset.  I was fooled.  

 

It’s about symmetry. As with all things in football.

 

If your backers aren’t aggressive a pass rushing, run game gap plugging defensive line is going to look very mediocre.

 

Some of us saw this coming, at least to some extent, due to how poor our backers are. 
 

I think all of us would like to see the DL be dominant despite really bad linebackers and safeties who are decent. 

[Panninho]

I think a lot of people are not being completely honest when they are saying they did not expect more from Chase Young. He has been playing really good against the run but in the pass rush there is a lot of room to grow for him. I don't like the argument that he constantly gets tripple or double teamed in pass sets because while we all saw those videos where it happens, that is not happening on every snap like some people are claiming - and if it was true then damn, the rest of the line must be really poor.

 

But the truth is also that for a rookie he gets a lot of attention (on a line that features several other first rounders and is supposed to be one of the best units in the entire league) and he still has quite an impact which is very promising. Saying he is a bust is completely absurd. It's like there are only two ways the argument can go 9 games into his career, he is either a HOF or he is a bust without any middle ground. And if you haven't noticed it, the lack of offseason, proper training camp und rookie minicamp seems to hurt defensive players (especially rookies) a lot (!) more than offensive players. If people had to choose an offensive rookie of the year at this point there would multiple players that come to mind who have been really good (Herbert, Burrow, Jefferson, Wirfs, Becton, Aiyuk, Higgins, Claypool, etc.). On the other side of the line who has really stood out so far? If you look at other first round defensive players like Okudah, Brown, Simmons, Henderson, Kinlaw, Chaisson, Brooks, Queen, etc. they have all been all average at best and some of them have been outright horrible. I think PFF has only three defensive rookies graded in the 70s and Chase Young is by far the highest, whereas they have I think 2 or 3 offensive rookies graded in the 90s and several others in the high 70s and low 80s. Now that could be down to their grading system but I think it is part of a bigger issue. Playing defense in the NFL is hard, if you are a rookie and get thrown in there without any type of offseason you are going to struggle. That Chase Young is not blowing everyone away should not distract you from the fact that he also hasn't been struggling at all. On the contrary, he has been really solid in a rookie defensive class that has mightly struggled so far.

[KDawg]

I expected 8-10 sacks from Young. He’s in that ball park. He’s also dealing with a groin injury that doesn’t heal while continuing to play. So no, I’m not being dishonest. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by KDawg

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

 

I obviously think Young was a top 10 pick and a quality starter.  But don't act like you're not concerned about him getting manhandled one on one by no name tackles. 

 

How about teams feeling they need to triple team him based on his play so far? How about his leading all rookies in QB pressures, or how his pressures have lead to the quarterback throwing INTs? Should we also consider those things when evaluating Young?

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Califan007

[stoshuaj]

It’s not a Chase Young issue as much as it’s a fan base issue.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

So we're finding reasons to beat up on Chase Young overall, because of the bad penalty that likely cost the game?

[Riggo#44]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So we're finding reasons to beat up on Chase Young overall, because of the bad penalty that likely cost the game?

 

Well, people were siding with Haskins over Rivera, so does this surprise you at all?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Anyone else remember Haynesworth's effort against the Eagles?

 

 

 

 

Be glad we have Young on a rookie contract lol...

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So we're finding reasons to beat up on Chase Young overall, because of the bad penalty that likely cost the game?

 

 

Ding ding ding!!  We have a winner!  Irrational response to a rookie mistake that he has already owned. Not to mention the Lions moved 34 yds on 3 plays - yes one of them was the penalty. But had they not let a wide open 10 yd pass be completed on the first play or a 9 yd play AFTER the penalty, then it would not matter. It's not like it was a 34 yd penalty and that was the only play. 

 

He is literally the only player on the D that other teams have to game plan around and he makes a rookie mistake and all of a sudden - he is not living up to expectations. How about we get a secondary that can cover someone for more than 2 steps and see how much havoc the guy raises. 

 

The guy has come to work every day and had an impact on every game. Is he doubled every single play? No. They do go the other way a lot. But i have yet to see a straight up pass play that he is not doubled or at least chipped and sometimes chipped more than once. 

 

There are plenty of issues with this team. It's a bad football team. But we all knew that. Chase Young is NOT one of those problems. 

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I expected 8-10 sacks from Young. He’s in that ball park. He’s also dealing with a groin injury that doesn’t heal while continuing to play. So no, I’m not being dishonest. 

Well that's why I said a lot and not everyone. The hype here was ridiculous, some people were predicting he'd beat the rookie sack record, he was the best pass rusher to come out since Peppers (who had 12 sacks as a rookie) etc.pp. 

So if your expectations were different I obv was not talking about you. 

 

[Rskins91]

32 minutes ago, stoshuaj said:

It’s not a Chase Young issue as much as it’s a fan base issue.

Thank you. Reading replies from some of these “fans” is mind-numbing. 
 

You’re welcome to your ****ty opinion if you think Chase Young is a bust. You’re also going to get called out for it and laughed at when he turns the corner. Because trust me - all the signs are there that he will. 

[WilberMarshall]

It is preposterous blaming Chase for the loss.

 

Lions deserved to win the game. Any fan of football knows that giving Stafford time on the clock with 3 timeouts doesn't bode well for the opposing team.

 

Me, I was surprised that they didn't score a touchdown. Stafford picked out a WR streaking down the field wide open... Receiver dropped the sweet pass. 

 

We still didn't adjust. 

 

In obvious passing downs we didn't win the one-on-one battles and that includes Chase. The team needs to work on their personal groupings for obvious passing downs. I don't think they have figured it out.  

 

I still think we made the right choice drafting Chase...just seeing the extra attention he gets justifies the pick. The other DL men should win their own battles.

[Riggo#44]

34 minutes ago, Panninho said:

The hype here was ridiculous, some people were predicting he'd beat the rookie sack record, he was the best pass rusher to come out since Peppers (who had 12 sacks as a rookie) etc.pp. 

 

People also hyped Jesse Lumsden. There was a whole thread devoted to Colt Brennan. Ryan Torain, Chris Horton, we could increase the list ad infinitum. Maybe don't base your expectations off the over-exuberance of a message board. We aren't TEPIDSkins.com. WE'RE EXTEREME!!

[Panninho]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

People also hyped Jesse Lumsden. There was a whole thread devoted to Colt Brennan. Ryan Torain, Chris Horton, we could increase the list ad infinitum. Maybe don't base your expectations off the over-exuberance of a message board. We aren't TEPIDSkins.com. WE'RE EXTEREME!!

Haha, well I'm actually not doing that. I think Chase Young has been really good so far. Yes, I was hoping he'd put more heat on opposing QBs but I gave an explanation as to why I think this has happened. My main point was that people here went crazy and without knowing who exactly it was, I would find it a bit odd if these people would now say, that they didn't expect more production from him in the pass rush.

Apart from Young though, I am a bit disappointed with the rest of the line. I was expecting them to feast more of CY's presence and so far that hasn't really happened. Ioannidis is missed for sure but that Allen and Payne combine for 2.5 sacks on the season with 9 games played - yeah, I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect more from them.

[Warhead36]

Blaming Young for the loss yesterday is stupid. The entire D sucked for about 50 minutes. Hop missed a FG. The offense did basically nothing for a half. It was a collective effort.

 

Nobody is saying Young is a bust(or they shouldn't be anyway, that's just dumb). I'm not even saying he's been bad, in fact I think overall he's been pretty good. But when you invest a #2 overall pick in a guy, you're expecting more of an impact. He isn't changing games. Again, not saying he's been bad, but he's basically been on par with Preston Smith, who is a good player but would anyone be happy to take him #2 overall? And its compounded by the fact that we could have had two other young QBs at that spot who appear to be lighting it up(while we just benched ours).

 

 

[sprcr]

Good player, tons of potential.  Yesterday was not a good day for him.  Here endeth the analysis.

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, Panninho said:

Apart from Young though, I am a bit disappointed with the rest of the line. I was expecting them to feast more of CY's presence and so far that hasn't really happened. Ioannidis is missed for sure but that Allen and Payne combine for 2.5 sacks on the season with 9 games played - yeah, I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect more from them.

 

I am disappointed in them--especially Payne. They've been decent, but far from the wrecking balls I expected.

[OVCChairman]

Are we really talking about Young like he's a bust?  He made a stupid play.  It was a mistake.  

 

He also has single handedly forced multiple interceptions this season.  Something that does not show up on the stat sheet.  Last week we saw a clip where he was literally tripled teamed.   He literally held AP by 1 arm yesterday as AP was pushing through a pile.   He had a bad game yesterday.  A play that stood out to me was he got caught trying to pass rush to the inside and it opened a hole on the outside.  Not sure if the LB was supposed to be in the gap, but it happens. 

 

I don't think we're anywhere near a point we can say he wasn't worth the no. 2 overall pick..... 

[Rskins91]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Blaming Young for the loss yesterday is stupid. The entire D sucked for about 50 minutes. Hop missed a FG. The offense did basically nothing for a half. It was a collective effort.

 

Nobody is saying Young is a bust(or they shouldn't be anyway, that's just dumb). I'm not even saying he's been bad, in fact I think overall he's been pretty good. But when you invest a #2 overall pick in a guy, you're expecting more of an impact. He isn't changing games. Again, not saying he's been bad, but he's basically been on par with Preston Smith, who is a good player but would anyone be happy to take him #2 overall? And its compounded by the fact that we could have had two other young QBs at that spot who appear to be lighting it up(while we just benched ours).

 

 

See, this is a more nuanced take. The truth is we won’t know if Chase was the right pick for a few more years. Part of the knock on Tua was durability - which is an issue that can come up anytime. 
 

I will say that Preston Smith is a comparison I disagree with though. Preston would disappear for multiple games, only to emerge for a 2 sack performance. Preston also wasn’t as solid against the run as Chase is. And Chase can and will certainly get better as time progresses. 

[Daniel.redskins]

I'm not blaming the loss of Young.  I could care less about the penalty.  I guess I just fell into the hype that he would single handedly change our defense.  That was the expectation from some.  It hasn't happened yet, but maybe i just need to relax like everyone has said.  

 

Really, my argument actually belongs in the Haskins thread.  I've learned what good teams do.  They shoot for the moon at quarterback.  And if they miss, the shoot again.  Tua was there.  It's almost like if the Cardinals kept Rosen and drafted Bosa.  They would be 3-6 now.  But instead they are leading a strong division.  

[Rskins91]

13 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I'm not blaming the loss of Young.  I could care less about the penalty.  I guess I just fell into the hype that he would single handedly change our defense.  That was the expectation from some.  It hasn't happened yet, but maybe i just need to relax like everyone has said.  

 

Really, my argument actually belongs in the Haskins thread.  I've learned what good teams do.  They shoot for the moon at quarterback.  And if they miss, the shoot again.  Tua was there.  It's almost like if the Cardinals kept Rosen and drafted Bosa.  They would be 3-6 now.  But instead they are leading a strong division.  

Make no mistake - drafting Haskins was a poor choice. And I generally subscribe to your idea. But based on some of your previous posts, and others posts, it seems you’re correlating your disappointment with not getting Tua with Young’s performance. The truth is, Young will develop and grow, and has show signs he is a productive player. It’s also equally true that we COULD have made a mistake by not getting Tua while we had the chance.

Chase could become an All Pro DE, but if the Dolphins are making deep playoff runs and winning titles with Tua, then we’ll feel cheated. That isn’t a Chase Young problem though; that’s a scouting/GM problem. Getting frustrated at Chase because he isn’t Tua is illogical. 

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I'm not blaming the loss of Young.  I could care less about the penalty.  I guess I just fell into the hype that he would single handedly change our defense.  That was the expectation from some.  It hasn't happened yet, but maybe i just need to relax like everyone has said.  

 

Really, my argument actually belongs in the Haskins thread.  I've learned what good teams do.  They shoot for the moon at quarterback.  And if they miss, the shoot again.  Tua was there.  It's almost like if the Cardinals kept Rosen and drafted Bosa.  They would be 3-6 now.  But instead they are leading a strong division.  

I actually brought up Tu’a... Hell, I brought up Herbert, too, in the draft thread.

 

At the end of the day the injury history with us being on the outside is something you can’t ignore. He would have been the best player in the draft in my opinion if healthy. But that injury was gruesome. Miami wound up in the perfect spot for him. Taking him where they took him isn’t as much of a risk given the talent on the board vs. Tua. 
 

Herbert I thought was gaining momentum and worthy of a pick, but I thought he’d need some time and it’s tough to pass on Young. And since the team seemed to be set on giving Haskins a chance, Young became the guy I would have taken.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Tua’s health can still come into play. We don’t know if Herbert would have been the same here.

 

I agree, typically, that if you need a QB you take the top QB prospects. It’s why I wouldn’t pass on Fields if he’s there for any reason.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I agree, typically, that if you need a QB you take the top QB prospects. It’s why I wouldn’t pass on Fields if he’s there for any reason.

 

But doesn't Fields play for Ohio State?   😁

 

I am not worried about Chase. Like you, I was cool with Tua if they felt OK with his health in the last draft.  But a franchise QB would change everything for this franchise.   Right now my top hope is Fields.  2nd is Wilson. 

 

 

 

 

[Capsman]

13 hours ago, carex said:

 

okay, at this point you're just trolling

Ah no, not trolling.  Just being honest.  Some of the hyperbole here is laughable, that he "single handedly almost caused multiple interceptions" and "regularly getting triple teamed".  You will find examples of any lineman getting getting blocked by a second guy once or twice a game.  I literally counted one double team on Young all of yesterday.  One.  Perhaps I missed one, so let's say two. 

 

As for the backers and linebackers, it doesn't explain why he cannot get close to the QB even on the non-quick hitting plays against a single blocker.  His teammates are getting there before him.   He's repeatedly pushed to the outside or ends up way behind the QB (if not pushed to the ground).  The Bosas, Watts (even TJ) made their teammates better by both drawing extra attention and making the QB either move up in the pocket toward the interior rush or outside the pocket toward the other defensive end.   And they did that in their rookie seasons, even if the sack totals weren't high.   Honestly I've seen one impressive pass rush the entire season and that was his sack fumble against Wentz on a spin move.  

 

No, I don't think he's a "bust", he just doesn't look to me like a guy who has the tools to be a dominant d-lineman.  Has good straightaway speed but doesn't seem capable of lowering his center of gravity, like a motorcycle racer going around a tight curve.  His strength seems to manifest in static situations (holding the line in run defense for example) but he doesn't look particularly strong rushing.  You see that with a lot of guys like Payne, hard to move but they don't push the pocket.     Not sure I've seen him successfully bull rush.  Maybe I've missed one?  Where I do think he can improve is the hand to hand stuff and a move here or there, but he looks to me like a guy whose ceiling is in the 7-8 sack per year range.  Not bad, but not game changing either.

 

I will be happy as a lark if I'm wrong and it all turns out to be his groin, but despite his successful first game I noticed some of these things before his injury, like lowering the center of gravity, ankle flexibility, etc.  I'd really love to know what we were offered (if anything) for the pick prior to the draft.   

 

Prove me wrong, Chase.