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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skins199021 said:

My problem isn't with Chase Young it is with our decision making. Chase is good, will be very good.

 

My argument for drafting Tua was obvious, great QB spec is way better than a Great DE spec. Tua was set to go number 1 before Burrow and his injury. Once Doctors said he was fine, I thought we had to take him. Dude is right on his way to playing like Wilson and Murray.

 

Let's assume we all believe Lawrence Taylor is the best DE to ever play, and let us pretend the following players are all 22 (knowing how their careers played out). LT, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Manning, Big Ben, Rivers

 

LT is going last in that group, because QBs change franchises. That was my logic, nothing again Young. The only thing that bothered me about Young's fans were the "Once in a generation" BS.

Sure, but what if the odds of LT being LT is like 75% and the odds of any of the QBs being what they end up being is only like 25%? Do you still take the QB? What if its only 10%? 5?

 

That could be the logic the FO used. #s varying of course but you get the gist of it. Tua was a massive risk coming off injury. He's also a smaller, running type QB who played on a stacked Alabama team. He wasn't an easy prospect to evaluate.

 

I 100% would have taken Joe Burrow over Young but I had no issues with Young over Tua.

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

As good as Young is, and as great as he may become...I can't help wonder what might be if we drafted Herbert instead.

 

 

lol don't torture yourself, look at it this way... in 2011

 

Jax took Blaine Gabbert and Tennessee took Jake Locker.... over J.J. Watt, Minnesota took Christian Ponder over Robert Quinn.... Cin got A.J. Green in the first round of that draft, and Dalton in the 2nd. 

 

4 years later Jax took Bortles over Khalil Mack

 

How much different would Jax be right now if they had taken J.J. Watt and Khalil Mack instead of Gabbert and Bortles.  

 

It's the most important position in sports, and probably the most difficult to truly assess.... 

Edited by OVCChairman
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PartyPosse

PartyPosse

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Skins199021 said:

My problem isn't with Chase Young it is with our decision making. Chase is good, will be very good.

 

My argument for drafting Tua was obvious, great QB spec is way better than a Great DE spec. Tua was set to go number 1 before Burrow and his injury. Once Doctors said he was fine, I thought we had to take him. Dude is right on his way to playing like Wilson and Murray.

 

Let's assume we all believe Lawrence Taylor is the best DE to ever play, and let us pretend the following players are all 22 (knowing how their careers played out). LT, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Manning, Big Ben, Rivers

 

LT is going last in that group, because QBs change franchises. That was my logic, nothing again Young. The only thing that bothered me about Young's fans were the "Once in a generation" BS.

I think you’re making such a ridiculous assumption about Tua it’s almost painful. It’s also considerably harder to find a generational DE than it is a Good to great QB. How many LTs are out there now? Mack and Miller? Maybe Donald? Tua might end up great but who knows now. You’re already basically claiming Tua as “generational” in your own way and based on what?

Edited by PartyPosse
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Skins199021

Skins199021

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42 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I think you’re making such a ridiculous assumption about Tua it’s almost painful. It’s also considerably harder to find a generational DE than it is a Good to great QB. How many LTs are out there now? Mack and Miller? Maybe Donald? Tua might end up great but who knows now. You’re already basically claiming Tua as “generational” in your own way and based on what?

Well once again Tua was going number 1 before injury and Burrow. With no injury he still could have gone 1. He wasn't some project QB.

 

And my argument is QB is a million times more important than DE for a team/franchise. Really not that hard to figure out either, we have sucked every year other than a few years here and there of slightly above average to good QB play.

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PartyPosse

PartyPosse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skins199021 said:

Well once again Tua was going number 1 before injury and Burrow. With no injury he still could have gone 1. He wasn't some project QB.

 

And my argument is QB is a million times more important than DE for a team/franchise. Really not that hard to figure out either, we have sucked every year other than a few years here and there of slightly above average to good QB play.

Going #1 doesn't mean anything. Case in point the QB currently starter for this team. 

 

Secondly, I think you have a better chance at winning with decent QB play and dominant DL play than you can with Dominant DL play and medicore DL. That's just my opinion though.

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Daniel.redskins

Daniel.redskins

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Skins199021 said:

And my argument is QB is a million times more important than DE for a team/franchise. Really not that hard to figure out either, we have sucked every year other than a few years here and there of slightly above average to good QB play.

I agree. This has been my argument. Not having a top 10 qb has completed hindered this franchise. We haven't a top 10 qb since Rypien in the early ninety's (though Cousins looked very good at times). We have had plenty of great pass rushers and it's been the same results year in and year out. That's why we should have taken Tua. We should have shot for the moon at the most important position. And no, I'm not writing Tua in as a future great as of yet. It's just the principle. 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

We really haven't.

Yeah really. Kerrigan is good, at times very good. So was Orakpo for a few years. That's it.

 

Young projects to be a Watt/Mack/Miller level game changer. He isn't there yet, but a lot of pass rushers don't put up huge sack #s their rookie year.

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Dark Acre

Dark Acre

Posted
Posted

If you have a mediocre QB (and let's fiat that he's a good leader, locker room type), you can scheme for him to win.  You don't need a great QB if you do that - strong running game, good protection, receivers who can properly run routes, and a reliable kicker - BUT you need a D that can create turnovers and disrupt the opposing offense.  It doesn't even have to be a dominant defense, just a plucky one that gives the O opportunities.

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PartyPosse

PartyPosse

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah really. Kerrigan is good, at times very good. So was Orakpo for a few years. That's it.

 

Young projects to be a Watt/Mack/Miller level game changer. He isn't there yet, but a lot of pass rushers don't put up huge sack #s their rookie year.

And some have monster first years and fizzle our.  First years are usually the least indicative of a player’s career.

54 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

That's true, now that I think about it. My hope is that Young and Sweat will both work out and we can draft a QB next year. If we have a top 10 qb with Young and Sweat we may really have something. But finding that qb is the million dollar question....

True that. 

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GOATFrerotte

GOATFrerotte

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I agree. This has been my argument. Not having a top 10 qb has completed hindered this franchise. We haven't a top 10 qb since Rypien in the early ninety's (though Cousins looked very good at times). We have had plenty of great pass rushers and it's been the same results year in and year out. That's why we should have taken Tua. We should have shot for the moon at the most important position. And no, I'm not writing Tua in as a future great as of yet. It's just the principle. 


Having Tua right now would have been so much fun. Still upset we passed on him. But oh well if we find a qb in the next draft and Young turns out to be worth a #2 pick it will work out. But it’s not the best sign teams can already take Young out of the game.

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TheShredder

TheShredder

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On 11/20/2020 at 6:24 AM, Warhead36 said:

Young projects to be a Watt/Mack/Miller level game changer. He isn't there yet, but a lot of pass rushers don't put up huge sack #s their rookie year.

Like I pointed out in the Preseason, Chase Young's hip-flexor injury was a deep core muscle issue.  When he went down a few weeks later with a directly related groin tear, he wasn't going to play 100% healthy this year.  He's got a drastically over built lower and upper body that now has proven to expose a lagging hindged core muscle group.  The sort of definitive treatment required in this situation takes months to correct.  Assumptions can be made that he's playing at around 80% and risks a third and possibly final deeper core tear.  He's an animal, no doubt.  He wants to perform and compete for Rookie of the year.  They decided to let him play it out, which doesn't require treatment or he'd be on the injury report every week.  It's all pain tolerance until the final tear or last game.  There's no way to judge him fully this year imo. 

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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, TheShredder said:

 He's got a drastically over built lower and upper body that now has proven to expose a lagging hindged core muscle group.  The sort of definitive treatment 

I wonder how many players are dealing with injuries this year because of the solo training everyone did during the off season this year. There have been a ton of injuries in the NFL this year 

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