Welp...have we seen enough..?

[Thinking Skins]

10 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Some progress was made, it's not what people want yet but it's was it is.  Just keep working and playing and let's see how he looks towards the end of the season.

 

I think that's the most important thing. I think the worse thing Bruce could have said is "we're close" because now that gets tied into everything. We are a rebuilding team with a rookie QB. Lets develop him and build around him and take the lumps with him. Its what I wanted us to do with Ramsey, Campbell and Griffin. We kinda did it with Cousins until we didn't sign him to the team we built around him. Really the last time we developed a QB and kept him was Gus Ferotte. he wasn't great but he was fun to root for. But there were some ugly years in that process - nothing this bad but definitely not reminiscent of the Gibbs era. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

18 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

I guess I'm way off seeing QBs come In to the league Instantly starting and having success...immediately...again..please dont label me as a fan saying haskins needs time..or that hes a bust...I'm neutral...only thing I say about it is is..with him only having one year under his belt In college i believe it was a stretch for the skins to pick him where they did.

 

It's easier to have success when those guys are getting all the first team reps in training camp along with having better o-lines and receivers, etc.  Our o-line is not good, best LT in football holds out, pro bowl guard in Scherff is playing poorly this year, etc.  The best WR on the team is a rookie.  TE position is dreadful now with Reed out again, possibly forever.  Injuries to RB in Guice.  Toss in the fact that Jay didn't want him along with horrible play calling from both Jay and now Bill.  

 

Oh, and the defense sucks too.  It's not like he is being put into the best position to win.  Heck, read some article saying that they aren't putting in plays that he is comfortable with.  Thats a lot on any young, rookie QB.  I won't say bust until after next season (if his poor play carried over), cause it's not really fair.  

[RabidFan]

Is Bill calling the plays just for running game still?  I thought I read they gave all playcalling duties to the kid OC.  

[Veryoldschool]

The early returns are disappointing but I want to see how much progress he can make between now and the end of the year before I assess his potential.  I will be looking for progress towards competence, not a high bar to surpass.   Let's hope he can make it.

[theTruthTeller]

2 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

The early returns are disappointing but I want to see how much progress he can make between now and the end of the year before I assess his potential.  I will be looking for progress towards competence, not a high bar to surpass.   Let's hope he can make it.

By the time Kurt had finished the final season of his rookie contract, he had been through four preseasons and 25 starts.  Still the team refused to sign him to a contract with a middle-of-the-road starting salary and a two year guarantee because they wanted him to prove himself just one more time.  If you can't fully evaluate a QB after four years and 25 starts, you should just retire.  And now, basically the same decision makers will decide whether Haskins has what it takes or if they need to draft a QB in round 1, based on his accomplishments with the worst offensive talent in the NFL, and without any meaningful input from the HC, who probably will have never worked with Haskins.  It doesn't give you a really good warm feeling, does it.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

You have to let him finish the season. What do you gain by benching him already. They're finishing 1-15 or 2-14 whether he, Case, or Colt starts. Once upon a time rookies took their lumps and put up bad numbers. Now it appears that you can see any issues by the first year. Good QBs have at least decent seasons now.

[Veryoldschool]

34 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

By the time Kurt had finished the final season of his rookie contract, he had been through four preseasons and 25 starts.  Still the team refused to sign him to a contract with a middle-of-the-road starting salary and a two year guarantee because they wanted him to prove himself just one more time.  If you can't fully evaluate a QB after four years and 25 starts, you should just retire.  And now, basically the same decision makers will decide whether Haskins has what it takes or if they need to draft a QB in round 1, based on his accomplishments with the worst offensive talent in the NFL, and without any meaningful input from the HC, who probably will have never worked with Haskins.  It doesn't give you a really good warm feeling, does it.

 

Snyder and the Skins were idiots not to recognize Kirk's talent that was evident from his very first game in Cleveland in 2012 but let's not taint Haskins with our loathing for Snyder and his minions.  I'm not optimistic but I want to see how things play out.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Yes, the foolish owner & management who didn't recognize Kirk's talent when he performed so well is going to assess Haskins but let's not taint Haskins with our loathing for Snyder and his minions.  I'm not optimistic but I want to see how things play out.

 

I think you are underestimating Dan's instincts at QB.  When has he ever got it wrong?  😀 He will figure this out for better or worse and am sure he will be right as usual. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

 

A former member of the Redskins’ personnel department said Snyder’s involvement with the football operation typically outmatches his football expertise.“He can’t ever get it right because he wants to be involved in it all,” he said. “He wants to have input in everything.”

 

Several employees said that while Snyder likes to ask questions, he does not always seem receptive to advice. Many relationships with other NFL teams are strained, they say, and he has insulated himself from pushback and dissenting opinions.

 

“I think there’s a fundamental flaw with who he surrounds himself with,” said one former coach. “Dan’s not very open to receiving negative feedback.”

 

....In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. 

[carex]

27 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

By the time Kurt had finished the final season of his rookie contract, he had been through four preseasons and 25 starts.  Still the team refused to sign him to a contract with a middle-of-the-road starting salary and a two year guarantee because they wanted him to prove himself just one more time.  If you can't fully evaluate a QB after four years and 25 starts, you should just retire.  And now, basically the same decision makers will decide whether Haskins has what it takes or if they need to draft a QB in round 1, based on his accomplishments with the worst offensive talent in the NFL, and without any meaningful input from the HC, who probably will have never worked with Haskins.  It doesn't give you a really good warm feeling, does it.

 

25 starts is only one game over a season and a halfand those starts had been spread out over mulitple seasons and two different coaches

[theTruthTeller]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

25 starts is only one game over a season and a halfand those starts had been spread out over mulitple seasons and two different coaches

Yeah, that would make it impossible for even a skilled evaluator of talent to determine whether he was worth $18M/year.

 

The saw him in practice every ****ing day for four years!  And 21 out of 25 starts were made during Gruden's tenure (although i have no reason to believe that Gruden didn't want to sign him to a long term contract)

 

But if you don't think that 25 starts in four years is enough to make a good decision on a QB, how do you expect the same people to make a decision on Haskins?

 

[bearrock]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think you are underestimating Dan's instincts at QB.  When has he ever got it wrong?  😀 He will figure this out for better or worse and am sure he will be right as usual. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

 

A former member of the Redskins’ personnel department said Snyder’s involvement with the football operation typically outmatches his football expertise.“He can’t ever get it right because he wants to be involved in it all,” he said. “He wants to have input in everything.”

 

Several employees said that while Snyder likes to ask questions, he does not always seem receptive to advice. Many relationships with other NFL teams are strained, they say, and he has insulated himself from pushback and dissenting opinions.

 

“I think there’s a fundamental flaw with who he surrounds himself with,” said one former coach. “Dan’s not very open to receiving negative feedback.”

 

....In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. 

 

Wait.  Has anyone ever seen Snyder and George Costanza in the same place?

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

By the way, I remember the Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell debates which always came down to "It's not his fault that the team stinks."

 

It's entirely possible that the Redskins can never evaluate a young quarterback because the team will always stink.

[bakedtater1]

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

By the way, I remember the Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell debates which always came down to "It's not his fault that the team stinks."

 

It's entirely possible that the Redskins can never evaluate a young quarterback because the team will always stink.

Oh God especially with the snyder picking QBs 

[Jericho]

I don't really get the Cousins comparisons here. Cousins was a red-shirt senior with 3 years of starting experience in college. He was 24 before he ever appeared on the field for the Redskins. He was more of a finished product when he was drafted. Haskins was a red-shirt sophomore with one year of college under his belt. That's very inexperienced for a QB. When you take a guy like Haskins, you know you're playing the long game. He's almost certainly not ready now. But he has two years to grow and become better.

 

It's the same idea why most of the top picks in the NBA draft are freshman or young foreigners. Not college seniors. They may not be the best players right now, but odds are most of them will be better in two years. If you take Haskins, you have to give it some time or there was no point in taking him to begin with. The only exception to that I can see is if some uber prospect falls in your lap. Then maybe you think about your options.

[Stone Cold]

Revisit after a few games.  But as of now, I do not view him as a bust.

 

the real question it seems we need to be asking is:  do people WANT him to be our guy.  And to that I answer yes

[SprintBomb]

As a first round pick I would consider him a bust. I think it's to early though to truly call him a bust. He is on a horrible team that drafted him way to high. I feel bad for him. A competent organization could help him turn into a good QB.

[Veryoldschool]

4 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

As a first round pick I would consider him a bust. I think it's to early though to truly call him a bust. He is on a horrible team that drafted him way to high. I feel bad for him. A competent organization could help him turn into a good QB.

 

It's up to Haskins to turn himself into a good quarterback whatever the circumstances.  I want to see him have a supportive environment but in the end, it will be up to him to grow and develop.

[zCommander]

He is a bust. Just like the spud that never grows into a potato in Idaho overnight. Haskins is now busttater1. 

 

@bakedtater1 by the way your thread title is weak.  It is missing Haskins in the title. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[DJHJR86]

He legitimately reminds me of how bad Deshone Kizer looked in starting for Cleveland, and to a lesser extent, Rosen in Arizona.  Coincidentally these 2 guys were given up on after one year (in Cleveland no less).  He also is looking a lot like Finley is in Cincy right now.  Just totally lost and not ready for the NFL.  

[drowland]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

....In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. 

 

So this would mean Dan wasn't impressed with the 7 starts Campbell made in 2006.  Campbell completed 53.1% for 1297 yards, 10 TDs and 6 INTs.  If Haskins numbers are worse would the Dan go QB again in 2020?  

 

So far Haskins is at 58.2% for 498 yards, 2 TDs and 5 INTs for the year.  If you just count his starts he's 59.6% for 358, 2 TDs and 1 INT.  

[bakedtater1]

33 minutes ago, zskins said:

He is a bust. Just like the spud that never grows into a potato in Idaho overnight. Haskins is now busttater1. 

 

@bakedtater1 by the way your thread title is weak.  It is missing Haskins in the title. 

 

 

 

 

Well, change the title if ya dont like it..and piss all over where your from as well!! 👍😎😀😎👍

[Probos]

I struggle with this -- knowing Dan picked Dwayne really taints things for me.  A part of me wants it not to workout so Dan can eat another plate of ****.  But, the quickest way to the team improving is his play improving and eventually developing into a solid NFL QB.  

 

Can't call him a bust yet -- play the season out.  Pray Dan fires Bruce so that maybe we can get a few good candidates in for the HC job,...even though they'll have to inherit Haskins.  Jeeezo,...what a ****ing **** show this team is,......fook.

[sportjunkie07]

I haven't seen enough yet because I'm enjoying the redskins' ineptitude. 

 

Ive often seen him scan the field (though i doubt he is actually processing his reads) and he has plus arm strength. He also seems durable. 

 

As many noted during the draft, he needs a lot of development on his mechanics. It would involve multiple seasons of slowly getting better leading to an eventual massive contract. Judging by his nonchalant attitude and lack of preparation I don't think he has the mentality to access what he is doing wrong and make the crucial steps to improve the basics of his game. 

 

And he won't get much help in that regard from a 1 win team with a transient coaching staff and a new coach next year who will want his own guy. 

 

Haskins is a bust and a sunk cost. He has shown no flashes outside of raw arm strength and i don't think the risk of spending 5 years to potentially develop a guy into a Jameis Winston type of player is worth it. 

 

We are better off swinging again at a new qb, with a new coach. They can make immediate returns by prioritizing one of the better receivers in the league and hopefully, a healthy guice, who looked really good yesterday.  

[@DCGoldPants]

Almost 150 replies to this? 

 

Of all the things we've seen enough of. A guy on a rookie deal after his 2nd start?