Serious Question: Do you regret letting Cousins go?

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 1/6/2020 at 6:25 PM, Burgold said:

Fandom is stupid. Attaching as much emotional energy and money and hours as many of us do to a team that we don't play on is stupid. Hell, being on a Redskins message board after their season is over is probably stupid, too.

 

I don't have a problem with any fan who feels jilted by Cousins or felt unhappy about other players choosing greener pastures. Our attachment to the team clearly comes from the emotional part of our brain because Spock would tell you that investing in this team for the past twenty years was highly illogical. 

 

I don't fault Cousins for wanting out and feeling that Allen/The Redskins did him wrong. I also don't fault fans in feeling that Shanny and Gruden gave him opportunities most fourth round back ups don't get and he should have felt some gratitude for that.

 

There is a difference between expending emotional energy on a team and taking a stupid, selective, position that Kirk Cousins "abandoned" the fans while not taking the same position when other players leave.  I didn't hear one poster say anything when Preston Smith did the same thing.    Same with "Kirk didn't want to be here"  Well what sane player would chose to take a worse deal with this franchise, a franchise that showed him zero respect,  over a franchise that is a contender and offered a better deal?  Again a stupid position, those saying this would take the exact same position Kirk did if they had that chance .  

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

There is a difference between expending emotional energy on a team and taking a stupid, selective, position that Kirk Cousins "abandoned" the fans while not taking the same position when other players leave.  

Nah! Players leave all the time. Quarterbacks are different. In particular, the song and dance, we endured during the Cousins fiasco was different. At the same time, this isn't unique. You've heard plenty of sour grapes over players leaving through the years. It happens all the time.

 

Besides, Preston Smith wasn't all that good while he was here. Sure, he got some pressures, but he almost never got home. Pretty much everyone felt he was okay, but not good enough. A step above just a guy. Turns out, he was another victim of Barry and Manusky's inability to take advantage of a player's talents.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

There is a difference between expending emotional energy on a team and taking a stupid, selective, position that Kirk Cousins "abandoned" the fans while not taking the same position when other players leave.  I didn't hear one poster say anything when Preston Smith did the same thing.    Same with "Kirk didn't want to be here"  Well what sane player would chose to take a worse deal with this franchise, a franchise that showed him zero respect,  over a franchise that is a contender and offered a better deal?  Again a stupid position, those saying this would take the exact same position Kirk did if they had that chance .  

#1) Jay put his head on the chopping block to Promote Kirk over RG3. Jay gave him his shot ...and he repaid him with disloyalty

#2) Bruce may have been a brain dead Azz tagging Kirk twice thinking he could negotiate a deal with Kirk , BUT he had to be given signals from Kirk/Agent that a agreement could be reached. Bruce was played..no doubt about it by Kirk to attain his goals with NO thought about #1. Had Kirk said what his intention was (either $$ or just I want out) I would have respected that.

 

THIS is why I can't stand the guy..disloyalty and deceit. True christian values..huh.

 

And YES Bruce deserved to get canned and I'm glad with all the changes but this nostalgia for this T^rd is beyond me.

[JSSkinz]

Who has ever said that letting Kirk go to get Alex was a good decision?  None of use knew Bruce was going to make that move, even many of the pro Kirkers thought as long as the team invests in youth it wasn't a bad decision to let Kirk go.

 

Giving a 3-year deal fully guaranteed to any QB outside of the elite status is idiotic when your team is far from making an impact in the playoffs.

 

We needed 3 years just to get our **** together so having to re-up your QB that quickly is not conducive to building a winning team.

 

Goal posts keep moving.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

16 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

#1) Jay put his head on the chopping block to Promote Kirk over RG3. Jay gave him his shot ...and he repaid him with disloyalty

#2) Bruce may have been a brain dead Azz tagging Kirk twice thinking he could negotiate a deal with Kirk , BUT he had to be given signals from Kirk/Agent that a agreement could be reached. Bruce was played..no doubt about it by Kirk to attain his goals with NO thought about #1. Had Kirk said what his intention was (either $$ or just I want out) I would have respected that.

 

THIS is why I can't stand the guy..disloyalty and deceit. True christian values..huh.

 

And YES Bruce deserved to get canned and I'm glad with all the changes but this nostalgia for this T^rd is beyond me.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and equally obvious is I won't be able to change your mind. But I have to laugh at the "loyalty" comment seeing as the Redskins, or any other team for that matter, never shows loyalty to players.  Why on earth should Kirk show loyalty to a team that showed him none?  Why should he not be able to maximize his earnings like every other American is able to do?  

[TheGreek1973]

16 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

#1) Jay put his head on the chopping block to Promote Kirk over RG3. Jay gave him his shot ...and he repaid him with disloyalty

#2) Bruce may have been a brain dead Azz tagging Kirk twice thinking he could negotiate a deal with Kirk , BUT he had to be given signals from Kirk/Agent that a agreement could be reached. Bruce was played..no doubt about it by Kirk to attain his goals with NO thought about #1. Had Kirk said what his intention was (either $$ or just I want out) I would have respected that.

 

THIS is why I can't stand the guy..disloyalty and deceit. True christian values..huh.

 

And YES Bruce deserved to get canned and I'm glad with all the changes but this nostalgia for this T^rd is beyond me.

If you think this was on Kirk, I got a bridge to sell you.  Kirk was the one that was disrespected.  Allen never committed to him.  If he made his a fair offer before that first tag he would have been with us.  By the second tag Kirk had made up his mind he was out.  Why wouldn't he, what exactly did this team show him to make him want to be here?

 

Heck yea I am mad we didn't sign him.

[TouchdownSkin]

17 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

#1) Jay put his head on the chopping block to Promote Kirk over RG3. Jay gave him his shot ...and he repaid him with disloyalty

#2) Bruce may have been a brain dead Azz tagging Kirk twice thinking he could negotiate a deal with Kirk , BUT he had to be given signals from Kirk/Agent that a agreement could be reached. Bruce was played..no doubt about it by Kirk to attain his goals with NO thought about #1. Had Kirk said what his intention was (either $$ or just I want out) I would have respected that.

 

THIS is why I can't stand the guy..disloyalty and deceit. True christian values..huh.

 

And YES Bruce deserved to get canned and I'm glad with all the changes but this nostalgia for this T^rd is beyond me.

This is exactly how I feel.  

[PF Chang]

It's the NFL, if you don't win your job is on the line. Gruden didn't start Kirk over RG3 to do him a favor, he did it because he wanted to win by starting the better player.

 

The idea that Kirk owes some special gratitude to Gruden because Gruden chose to start the better QB is nonsense. 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You are entitled to your opinion and equally obvious is I won't be able to change your mind. But I have to laugh at the "loyalty" comment seeing as the Redskins, or any other team for that matter, never shows loyalty to players.  Why on earth should Kirk show loyalty to a team that showed him none?  Why should he not be able to maximize his earnings like every other American is able to do?  

Loyalty to Jay...you don't think he owed Jay some courtesy given what Jay did to promote him over RG3. Jay stuck his neck out for Kirk. I agree..he owes/owed the team nothing.

He should have told Jay " I don't want to play for the skins" instead of playing Bruce

[rick7423]

46 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Loyalty to Jay...you don't think he owed Jay some courtesy given what Jay did to promote him over RG3. Jay stuck his neck out for Kirk. I agree..he owes/owed the team nothing.

He should have told Jay " I don't want to play for the skins" instead of playing Bruce

No, he did not. As all of these guys will tell you, it is a business.

 

To be honest, he probably told Jay this exact comment, you may never know as neither will ever tell you everything that happened behind the scenes of that cluster frack of a team.

[Tsailand]

If Jay had started RG3 in 2015, he would have been fired before the end of the season.

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

If Jay had started RG3 in 2015, he would have been fired before the end of the season.

 

Exactly. This entire "loyalty" discussion is crazy.  There IS no loyalty between players and teams or coaches.   Kirk does not owe Jay anything for simply playing the better player. That's the coach's job,  to give the team the best chance to win.  It was not a favor.  

[Veryoldschool]

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

#1) Jay put his head on the chopping block to Promote Kirk over RG3. Jay gave him his shot ...and he repaid him with disloyalty

 

Rubbish, Kirk responded by excelling and not only justifying the decision to play Cousins but by carrying the team and helping Gruden stay employed.

19 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

#2) Bruce may have been a brain dead Azz tagging Kirk twice thinking he could negotiate a deal with Kirk , BUT he had to be given signals from Kirk/Agent that a agreement could be reached. Bruce was played..no doubt about it by Kirk to attain his goals with NO thought about #1. Had Kirk said what his intention was (either $$ or just I want out) I would have respected that.

 

THIS is why I can't stand the guy..disloyalty and deceit. True christian values..huh.

 

And YES Bruce deserved to get canned and I'm glad with all the changes but this nostalgia for this T^rd is beyond me.

 

So you're taking Bruce and Dan's side in this, wonderful, how insightful.  I see it differently.  After Kirk FINALLY got the opportunity to start for a season in 2015, an opportunity that should have been given in 2013 since Griffin was physically unfit to run his high school zone-read offense and mentally unable to run a WCO offense out of the pocket, Cousins dramatically won a division title with 9 wins, a 5 win improvement over their 4 win 2014 year.  That should have settled it, it would have for any competent franchise, not the Skins.

 

They should have known Cousins thoroughly after having him in the squad for 4 years.  In fact, even half knowledgable fans should have known Cousins since the only question about Cousins from the beginning of his career in DC was whether he was able to play at a high level for a season, not just for a few quarters or a few games.  Kirk answered that question affirmatively in 2015 and the moronic Skins failed to give him a serious multi-year contract and foolishly put the tag on him.  I can't imagine ownership anywhere that stupid.  All Snyder had to do to lockup the best QB the team had had in decades if not generations was to give him the middle of the road deal he requested, they refused and tagged him instead.  It's tough to imagine a dumber move.

 

Those of you who don't regret the Skins failing to secure Cousins for his long and productive career must be happy winning off the field like Snyder and Allen.  It's 2020 and at the very worse it's apparent Cousins is going to finish a long, productive career without a SB win like many other quarterbacks who were top 10-50% during their era.  That is the worse case, best case he wins a couple of SB and ends up with a bust in Canton, Ohio.   

 

No, of course, you Cousins critics can't imagine that happening, just like you couldn't imagine all the other things he has already accomplished, you just don't get him.

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Rubbish, Kirk responded by excelling and not only justifying the decision to play Cousins but by carrying the team and helping Gruden stay employed.

 

So you're taking Bruce and Dan's side in this, wonderful, how insightful.  I see it differently.  After Kirk FINALLY got the opportunity to start for a season in 2015, an opportunity that should have been given in 2013 since Griffin was physically unfit to run his high school zone-read offense and mentally unable to run a WCO offense out of the pocket, Cousins dramatically won a division title with 9 wins, a 5 win improvement over their 4 win 2014 year.  That should have settled it, it would have for any competent franchise, not the Skins.

 

They should have known Cousins thoroughly after having him in the squad for 4 years.  In fact, even half knowledgable fans should have known Cousins since the only question about Cousins from the beginning of his career in DC was whether he was able to play at a high level for a season, not just for a few quarters or a few games.  Kirk answered that question affirmatively in 2015 and the moronic Skins failed to give him a serious multi-year contract and foolishly put the tag on him.  I can't imagine ownership anywhere that stupid.  All Snyder had to do to lockup the best QB the team had had in decades if not generations was to give him the middle of the road deal he requested, they refused and tagged him instead.  It's tough to imagine a dumber move.

 

Those of you who don't regret the Skins failing to secure Cousins for his long and productive career must be happy winning off the field like Snyder and Allen.  It's 2020 and at the very worse it's apparent Cousins is going to finish a long, productive career without a SB win like many other quarterbacks who were top 10-50% during their era.  That is the worse case, best case he wins a couple of SB and ends up with a bust in Canton, Ohio.   

 

No, of course, you Cousins critics can't imagine that happening, just like you couldn't imagine all the other things he has already accomplished, you just don't get him.

 

 

I'm not going to go so far as to put Kirk Cousins and Canton in the same paragraph, I'm pretty convinced he will never win a Super Bowl with his BigGameItis.  But i agree with most everything else you wrote, especially the part in bold.  The jury is still out on Haskins, we could go another 30 years looking for a QB as good as Kirk.  I don't have that much time left.  

[Veryoldschool]

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I'm not going to go so far as to put Kirk Cousins and Canton in the same paragraph, I'm pretty convinced he will never win a Super Bowl with his BigGameItis. 

 

I did say the best case.  In any case, he is chasing his first SB now and I hope he gets it.

13 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

But i agree with most everything else you wrote, especially the part in bold.  The jury is still out on Haskins, we could go another 30 years looking for a QB as good as Kirk.  I don't have that much time left.  

 

I don't have 30 years left either, hopefully, Haskins blossoms and gives the Skins a chance.

[Tsailand]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I'm not going to go so far as to put Kirk Cousins and Canton in the same paragraph, I'm pretty convinced he will never win a Super Bowl with his BigGameItis.

 

I would have settled for 15 years of relevance, much like the Chargers had with Rivers.  No, they couldn't get it done in the playoffs, but perhaps we could.  At least in the NFC you don't have to worry about getting past Manning/Brady/Steelers every year.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

6 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Rubbish, All Snyder had to do to lockup the best QB the team had had in decades if not generations was to give him the middle of the road deal he requested, they refused and tagged him instead.  It's tough to imagine a dumber move.

 

No, of course, you Cousins critics can't imagine that happening, just like you couldn't imagine all the other things he has already accomplished, you just don't get him.

You KNOW I was screaming to TRADE Kirk after the 1st tag and before the next Draft so I am no FO apologist or Dan supporter. They screwed that up big time.That is just a lazy fallback to justify your position. Kirk was/IS a average to good QB.

 

BUT..Kirk was responsible for the the beginning of the end to a miserable feckless Redskin Staff. Gruden NEVER matured into a leader and if Kirk stayed we'd still be mired in mediocrity because that's who Jay was. Bruce was not a quality GM/President because he was one dimensional- Good Cap manager/Bad Talent (durability) scout.

So I am NOT Sorry Cousins is gone..it has led to a fresh start with a quality coach and assistants who know the pro game inside and out.

 

So I say THANK YOU KIRK!!! and you are still a T^rd and a disloyal one at that.

 

 

[volsmet]

[JSSkinz]

Dear Kirk, I wrote you but still ain't callin'
I left my cell, my pager, and my home phone at the bottom
I sent you two Tweets back in autumn, you must not-a got 'em
There probably was a problem with Twitter or somethin'
Sometimes I scribble my pro Kirk posts when I jot 'em
 

Anyways, I hope you get this man, hit me back,

Just to chat, truly yours, your biggest fan
This is ExtremeSkins Stan

[CommanderDOOM]

Phew, some of you guys....

[rick7423]

Man, I know I am not as smart as most of you (especially The Hangman- C_Hanburger) but wow, the venom and hatred for Kirk is just unwarranted, (IMHO ONLY!).

 

A wise man once said "opinions are like a55holes, everyone has one but everyone else's stinks". So very true.

 

All I really can say is get over yourself. Kirk gave us some good years, not perfect, but when he played here I always thought we had a chance. I haven't had that feeling before him (1 yr with RGIII) nor since. Haskins is not the answer.

 

I will agree with The Hangman- C_Hanburger on one thing, we should have traded him when we had the chance, but didn't. That is not on Kirk, it is on this feckless, stupid, and irresponsible franchise. No NFL franchise is "loyal" or "faithful" to any player. Once used up, they are discarded like last weeks trash.

 

To be perfectly frank, I have not watched much of the Skins this year for the first time in 40+ years. I have watched and followed the Vikings, Rams, Packers, and 49ers. Watching all of the Redskins castoffs and "problems" succeed. 

 

I am of the opinion that fans have it wrong, we should not follow a franchise, we should follow the people and players. They are, after all, what makes the league so good. lord knows the Redskins have made the league look really bad for a lot of years now.

[volsmet]

Imagine seeing the day where Drew Brees was so awful that people thought it made Kirk worth 30 million. Extraordinary.

Kirk Cousins is garbage.

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

my Gripe with Kirk isn’t based on any sense of loyalty he should have had regarding Gruden. My Gripe with Kirk is based on his attitude once he was tagged the first time, from that point forward he did not negotiate in good faith with the Skins. Yet publicly he was saying all the right things, in his “Golly Gee Style”
 

He just seemed disingenuous.  His attitude during those two years was F these people, they’re screwed now, I got you over a barrel. And that just sucked. It felt treasonous to me.
 

Yes, we screwed Up by not signing him A year or two prior. But he Relished the position he had us in and it rubbed me the absolute wrong way.  Let’s not forget he was super disappointed to be drafted behind RG3, like pissed. I think that feeling never left him and when he could he stuck it to us. I’m a Skins fan first. 

[rick7423]

16 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

my Gripe with Kirk isn’t based on any sense of loyalty he should have had regarding Gruden. My Gripe with Kirk is based on his attitude once he was tagged the first time, from that point forward he did not negotiate in good faith with the Skins. Yet publicly he was saying all the right things, in his “Golly Gee Style”
 

He just seemed disingenuous.  His attitude during those two years was F these people, they’re screwed now, I got you over a barrel. And that just sucked. It felt treasonous to me.
 

Yes, we screwed Up by not signing him A year or two prior. But he Relished the position he had us in and it rubbed me the absolute wrong way.  Let’s not forget he was super disappointed to be drafted behind RG3, like pissed. I think that feeling never left him and when he could he stuck it to us. I’m a Skins fan first. 

Really? He felt slighted at being drafted behind RGIII? Funny you should mention that, but it was actually the exact opposite. RGIII was deemed the savior and resented KC being drafted in the same year. RGIII had the ownership and management ear (Bruce and Dan) and did everything to contaminate this team against KC. It was obvious to the most casual ob server other than those blinded by the "Savior".

 

You, my fiend, are one that was blinded. Dan and Bruce wanted RGIII to be the man so much that they did everything to make KC feel unwanted. So many reports on this are available. RGIII apoogists just can't get over the fact that Shanny drafted KC and he was the better choice.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@rick7423 Bud Your extrapolating a lot there. I wasn’t some savior lover anti Kirk guy by any means. But Kirk was definitely bummed at the situation initially. I’m not speaking on RG3 and how he felt. I’m talking Kirk. Please don’t assume and throw me into some category.

But that isn’t as relevant for me as what transpired after he was our guy, and headed towards his showdown with the skins. My Gripe was how he came off to me once the window to get him at value passed.