Darrell Green Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 11 hours ago, Burgold said: I think part of the hate was that he rejected us. Okay, he rejected Allen, but emotionally it's the same thing. The other part of the hate is that it really isn't hate. It was an acknowledgement that with Gruden whenever a game mattered or whenever we played a good team, we would fail. I strongly believe if we had Kirk today, the season would have ended 6-10 or 7-9 and we'd be ****ing about the defense or some Monday night collapse. What I saw yesterday from Kirk in the fourth quarter and overtime was an OC that didn't really want to hand the ball off to Kirk. He was leaning really heavily on the run game. Now, Kirk made one really nice throw/bomb and threw the touchdown pass, but he wasn't the key. He was a piece to the puzzle. Agreed but let's not discount the 3,Rd down conversion to Diggs in a very short window. But I still don't understand the hate. He maximized his earning and left a team that is a trainwreck and went to a contender, this after the team showed little love. Every fan would have done the same or at least considered it. Not saying this is you but did the fans who felt he "abandoned" them feel the same about Preston Smith? Anthony Rendon? That position is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 7 hours ago, Llevron said: There is always fluff whenever we make a new trade or pick up a new player. Its the Redskins they always do that. We all know it. But no one who knew anything was watching the 2018 season and thinking "Damn that Alex Smith is such a good QB". No one, not one ****ing person could have known anything about football and watched that **** and really thought that he was that dude. But its COMPLETELY REASONABLY to think that Alex's consistency in protecting the football helped. That was the real argument. Also Kirk has a running game and still is up and down in Minny and still forces balls. The only people who thought having a run game would change him as a player were the people who are defending him right now. And that is wrong. He is the same player he always was, just more polished (which in fairness is proof to how hard he does work at his craft) Alex Smith was coming off a career year, the only season where he actual took shots downfield, aided obviously by a stable of gazelles who ran past everyone. The Redskins were buying at his peak value, they gave $71 mil in guaranteed money, a pick and a young corner who had value for an over the hill game manager. It was a horrible trade at the time and a cap killer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 32 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: That position is stupid. Fandom is stupid. Attaching as much emotional energy and money and hours as many of us do to a team that we don't play on is stupid. Hell, being on a Redskins message board after their season is over is probably stupid, too. I don't have a problem with any fan who feels jilted by Cousins or felt unhappy about other players choosing greener pastures. Our attachment to the team clearly comes from the emotional part of our brain because Spock would tell you that investing in this team for the past twenty years was highly illogical. I don't fault Cousins for wanting out and feeling that Allen/The Redskins did him wrong. I also don't fault fans in feeling that Shanny and Gruden gave him opportunities most fourth round back ups don't get and he should have felt some gratitude for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 59 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: That's bonkers, right? Did you write bananas first, then decide to edit it to bonkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Says the guy that apparently spends a lot of time reading Cowboy posts from a decade ago... This is true. Cousins came up during the RG3 Shanahan disaster. He had a front row seat to the dysfunction of this franchise. Either he or his agent were far too smart to sign here, likely both. There is a chance we could have signed him before he was proven prior to the 2015 season when it seemed clear he was going to be the guy at least in the interim. Yet Bruce went cheap and passed on surrendering any leverage and we lost any chance we may have. At that point it was too late and the front office followed with a series of mistakes and ego-driven embarrassments in how this whole thing was handled. If Cousins wasn't going to sign, and the FO likely knew this was the overwhelming possibility, he should have been traded for assets. You can't trade a guy who is unsigned as no one will give you anything for a guy who they can get as a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Alex Smith was coming off a career year, the only season where he actual took shots downfield, aided obviously by a stable of gazelles who ran past everyone. The Redskins were buying at his peak value, they gave $71 mil in guaranteed money, a pick and a young corner who had value for an over the hill game manager. It was a horrible trade at the time and a cap killer now. I still don’t think it was that bad of a trade when you consider our circumstances. Lots of people thought we were close, he was good enough and that we couldn’t keep our current QB regardless AND we were out of position to draft one. Now, we were wrong on all of that, but still lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Llevron said: I still don’t think it was that bad of a trade when you consider our circumstances. Lots of people thought we were close, he was good enough and that we couldn’t keep our current QB regardless AND we were out of position to draft one. Now, we were wrong on all of that, but still lol Lamar Jackson was still available. I know hind-sight and all. Bruce was trying so hard to show that the Skins are so close that he lost focus on the long term plans. Maybe he knew he was going to get canned after Kirk walked and Alex was suppose to somehow save him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, zskins said: Lamar Jackson was still available. I know hind-sight and all. Bruce was trying so hard to show that the Skins are so close that he lost focus on the long term plans. Maybe he knew he was going to get canned after Kirk walked and Alex was suppose to somehow save him. Lamar would have gotten both legs broken. He would have been ruined after less than one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Lamar would have gotten both legs broken. He would have been ruined after less than one year. We should never think like that. There would be a team with no players on it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, zskins said: We should never think like that. There would be a team with no players on it then. We lost two QB's to gruesome leg injuries in back to back games. Lamar was running 15-18 times a game by then. On our field with our blockers, you're right, He'd have had THREE broken legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ananoman Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, zskins said: We should never think like that. There would be a team with no players on it then. But isn't that a fairly good description of the Redskins? A team with no real players on it save for a small handful ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: We lost two QB's to gruesome leg injuries in back to back games. Lamar was running 15-18 times a game by then. On our field with our blockers, you're right, He'd have had THREE broken legs. **** I forgot about Colt. But I still think Lamar is more athletic and can throw form pocket really well and has excellent vision and when to run. Better instincts. 4 minutes ago, ananoman said: But isn't that a fairly good description of the Redskins? A team with no real players on it save for a small handful ? Two years ago we still had Trent and the OL was not that bad though along with AP. The O would have still been better with Lamar and AP or even this year for that matter with scary Terry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said: I’m glad we didn’t sign him for what he got, but definitely agree it was a big mistake to not trade him for something while we had his rights. When we had his rights he was not very good so he had no worth. He did not play much sitting behind RG3 and when he got in a game he as a interception waiting to happen. He was not like Brady going in for Bledso. When he was made the starter he was the guy choking and throwing ints to keep us out of the playoffs. If he was the second coming of Joe Montana, in the games he was put in, we would have locked him up but he did not show that in the final years of his rookie contract. It was just bad timing for us to let him sit for those early years. If we made him a starter soon as he was drafted then he most likely would have been a better player at the end of his rookie contract and we would have had a better gage on his ability but he was not playing and putting RG3 on the bench at that time. He became better the first year he was tagged. He was even better the next year but it was too late because by then Kirk knew he could score big time as a free agent so he took our tag money and used the time to improve his game, his stats and showcase himself to the league. IMO him and his agent had deals in mind, with other teams, when he took our tag money and had very little desire to play for us even if we matched the Vikes offer. When I watch him I do not get the impression he is a 100million dollar QB. He has limitations and the Vikes kept him from screwing up most of the game as they had the D balling and the running game going and to top it off the Saints were stinking up the joint. The Vikes coaches just let Kirk hand off and throw safe passes so he did not loose the game with ints and fumbles. Brees was handing the Vikes the game anyway so why risk using Kirk. If Brees does not throw up that wounded duck that got intercepted and he just kept nickel and dimming it, the Saints would have scored and won the game and Kirk would still be where he was before the game started. By the way, what were Kirks stats at the end of regulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Llevron said: I still don’t think it was that bad of a trade when you consider our circumstances. Lots of people thought we were close, he was good enough and that we couldn’t keep our current QB regardless AND we were out of position to draft one. Now, we were wrong on all of that, but still lol We were not close, (the defense from 2015-2017 was putrid) Alex Smith with weapons galore in KC went 10-6 nobody could possibly have predicted with josh docston and paul richardson and no run game he would do the same that 6-3 start was a complete fluke the three loses were bad and our wins were eeeked out...lets be real Bruce Allen panicked and tried to band aid the qb position by calling his old pal Andy Reid and seeing what he could offer....same thing with mcnugget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 20 hours ago, Llevron said: Its not a smart response because I dont think anyone worth their comments was actually saying we upgraded at QB. Only that we got more consistent play at the position and we were winning in part thanks to that. . You have not spent any time in a Redskins thread on a Maryland board that i post on. The masses literally feel this way and i am the resident idiot for posting that Kirk was pretty good and Smith was Mark Brunnel 2.0. This one clown that I have a personal battle with said Smith in a wheel chair was better than Cousins. I'm not kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Llevron said: I still don’t think it was that bad of a trade when you consider our circumstances. Lots of people thought we were close, he was good enough and that we couldn’t keep our current QB regardless AND we were out of position to draft one. Now, we were wrong on all of that, but still lol It was a trade a desperate teams makes, it was no different than the 3rd Gibbs gave up for noodle arm Mark Brunell, a 2nd for a washed up McNabb.. They tried their best to get out of a bad situation, made by their own ineptitude. It was the kind of short sided trade a stupid team makes, others would be a 2nd for Jason Taylor after an injury to Philip Daniels, a 2nd for the RB from the Niners after it was apparent Riggo would sit out the season. Smart teams don't do this, ours has never been smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I love Kubiak, and I think he's been such an incredible coaching resource for Cousins. I hope those two continue to work together; it'll be good for Cousins. If Stefanski gets a HC gig (which he shouldn't just yet), then I guess Kubiak would assume the full role of OC, which would further cement their relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Yes, clearly in the posts you both quoted I said that the team was wrong on all of these things. Do we really need to go back and show all the "football professionals" that thought it was a great move and a way not to step back and let Cousins walk at the same time? The situation was what it was. Kirk was going to walk unless we made him the highest paid in history to that point, and they werent going to do that, so they made the trade they did. It ultimately failed, yes. My point was at the time it wasnt the worst idea ever. I know many of you are perpetually negative about everything the Redskins do and thus will be correct often lol. But that doesnt mean that every move that fails, was the wrong move at the time. Perfect example, since im on it. The college style offense that the Redskins ran with RG3. Many of you thought it was a garbage system, ran by a garbage QB and that the league would catch up to it eventually and shut it down. That was 2012. They havent figured it out yet. It failed, sure. Here it failed. But that isnt because its a garbage system, its because we are a garbage organization. The Alex Smith thing could have worked here, too. Obviously not to a SB, or even the playoffs. But it could have been 8-8 had we not literally broken the legs of every QB on the roster that season lol. And obviously no I cant speak for every ****ing Redskins fan and im sorry if you really thought I was trying to. 12 hours ago, zskins said: Lamar Jackson was still available. I know hind-sight and all. Bruce was trying so hard to show that the Skins are so close that he lost focus on the long term plans. Maybe he knew he was going to get canned after Kirk walked and Alex was suppose to somehow save him. I feel you. We backed up Griffin and that new offense with a guy who couldn't run it. Stupid idea. So when Griffin was inevitably out with injury, they had to change the entire offense to fit the other guy. Putting us in the position we find ourselves in now. Its stupid **** like that that made Brice/Shanny such a bad pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 12 hours ago, zskins said: Lamar Jackson was still available. I know hind-sight and all. Bruce was trying so hard to show that the Skins are so close that he lost focus on the long term plans. Maybe he knew he was going to get canned after Kirk walked and Alex was suppose to somehow save him. Jay could have never succeeded with Lamar Jackson. As a play caller and designer he has no imagination. Would a coach who doesn't even believe in rolling out the QB be successful with a mobile QB? With the Redskins, Gruden would have tried to develop Jackson as a drop back passer who throws timing routes. Heck, if after seven years of being beaten by it, Gruden couldn't even install a hurry up option for his team do you think he could design a system around a non-traditional qb and even if he could do it he wouldn't. He was a lazy, "my system works, and players will fit in my square holes no matter what shape player they are" kind of coach. That's why he benched Adrian Peterson. That's why even after Guice was injured he tried like hell not to use Adrian Peterson. Jackson would have fared exactly as RGIII did under Gruden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Llevron said: The Alex Smith thing could have worked here, too. Obviously not to a SB, or even the playoffs. But it could have been 8-8 had we not literally broken the legs of every QB on the roster that season lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, SkinsFTW said: Pic Ok but argue the point. Im open to more information if you can present it in a meaningful way and not just post cause you seem to think im disagreeing with you on something. Im not arguing that Cousins is bad. Or that Alex was better than Cousins. Im literally arguing that we could have won 2 more games with Alex Smith that season had he not broken his leg. What is your argument? Seriously I would like you to make it make sense for me for once instead of just posting for the **** of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Okay, this is slightly confusing... was the team not 6-3 (probably going to be 6-4) and winning football games with Alex Smith? Ill say the same to the Smith bashers as I did the Cousins bashers a few pages ago... you don’t have to bash Smith to prop Cousins. They are separate, and although Smith “replaced” Cousins, neither purposely pit themselves against each other. Give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: Okay, this is slightly confusing... was the team not 6-3 (probably going to be 6-4) and winning football games with Alex Smith? Yes, no one is debating that. The point is that we were "6-3" in 2008 with Campbell and Zorn and how did that turn out? Pointing to a winning record halfway through the year without proper context in the direction the team was going (does anyone remember how putrid our offense looked against Houston before Colt came in?) is misleading. Yes, we probably would have won 2 more games if Smith didn't get injured. But would you rather have gone 5-11 or 6-10 rolling with McCoy and a cheaper FA or have a healthy and expensive Alex Smith lead you to 8-8 (at best) every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Llevron said: Ok but argue the point. Im open to more information if you can present it in a meaningful way and not just post cause you seem to think im disagreeing with you on something. Im not arguing that Cousins is bad. Or that Alex was better than Cousins. Im literally arguing that we could have won 2 more games with Alex Smith that season had he not broken his leg. What is your argument? Seriously I would like you to make it make sense for me for once instead of just posting for the **** of it. Haha. I'm just saying that it was kind of hilarious that to you "Alex Smith working here" meant we'd be 8-8. Bro 8-8 isn't working despite the fact that Bumbling Bruce and Doofus Dan have convinced you that it is. 8-8 is garbage. Look at the Patriots record for evidence of what working looks like, or even the Packers or Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 17 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: Yes, no one is debating that. The point is that we were "6-3" in 2008 with Campbell and Zorn and how did that turn out? Pointing to a winning record halfway through the year without proper context in the direction the team was going (does anyone remember how putrid our offense looked against Houston before Colt came in?) is misleading. Yes, we probably would have won 2 more games if Smith didn't get injured. But would you rather have gone 5-11 or 6-10 rolling with McCoy and a cheaper FA or have a healthy and expensive Alex Smith lead you to 8-8 (at best) every year? Cousins was leading us to 8-8 every year. I don't understand your point. Both guys had success and failures in different ways. Neither was going to save the team. Bruce Allen was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.