Riggo#44 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: RGIII too. Did it with McNabb. Did it with Trent. Did it with Cooley. RGIII--actually sucked, Snyder/Allen forced pick, did nothing after leaving. McNabb--actually sucked, Snyder/Allen forced pick, did nothing after leaving. Trent--I don't remember any real "slander." I wanted him to go success somewhere else--and get a 1st. Allen got the majority of the hate for this one. Cooley--I don't remember any slander either, he tore his achilles and wasn't the same anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Ultimately, this mess is our fault. (Jim Fassell practices voodoo.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, megared said: I can't look at the process Ron followed with Dwayne and derive very much logic from it. That's the problem for me. There's no good coach/GM that would tank an asset's value like this. Doesn't help the player, doesn't help the team. Aaaaaaaaaand despite the fact we're supposed to be competing...Ron just put together one of, if not THE worst offensive performance I've ever witnessed from this team. So I'm really gonna have to question how he thought this gives us the best chance to win. Or question why winning now even matters with such a crappy roster. I heard the announcer mentioned Ron thinking we can go 4-2 over the next 6 when he made the change. With THIS offense. I don't think you're really interested in understanding the logic Ron followed with Dwayne, to be honest. If you wanted to understand it, you'd have read a few of the litany of articles that have explained what happened. And Haskins was tanking his "value" just fine himself by ranking near the bottom of every passing category, it's not like he needed extra help. Question all you want how Ron figured this would give us the best chance to win, that's fine. But it's not like Haskins was giving us a good chance to win, his record proves it. That said, I don't think there's a QB on the roster who gives us a really good chance to win, though I think Kyle was doing decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: I can't look at posts like this with out reading "Poor victim Haskins who did nothing to bring this on himself." And this is coming from someone who was very excited about Haskins. His play and turned me off, and his attitude. And not just since he's been benched. There is far too long a list of stories about his lack of interest in putting in the work to get better. Any Haskins backer wants to address that, great. Otherwise you're ignoring the giant elephant in the room. Then you trade him in the middle of the night and without slandering him, and let him become another team's problem. What you don't do is slander the guy, to the point where his trade value is nil. You don't entitle selfish behavior by propping him up as a leader. It's Ron's job to get the most out of every player, transaction, opportunity. The second he doesn't he should be questioned. If it doesn't benefit WFT, why did you do it? He's the steward of the franchise, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Veretax said: Wow Falcons are 0-5? Any chance we trade for Matty Ice? I kid... Laugh at the Giants that won their first game against Big D The Giants lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, bh32 said: I don't understand all the fuss about Haskins being benched..He looked like crap. You don't understand bh. He clearly gave us the best chance to win and when you're a half game out of first ...seasons over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 26 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I'm reaching a point where I'd rather just be a general NFL fan and watch good football, whoever the team. I'm just a less excited fan. It reminds me of the McNabb controversy so much because he was a borderline HOF qb but comes here and has a bad season and all of a sudden we're hearing leaks about his work ethic, him being dumb, him not being wanted, etc. At lest RG3 got us 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, Spaceman Spiff said: Question all you want how Ron figured this would give us the best chance to win, that's fine. But it's not like Haskins was giving us a good chance to win, his record proves it. That said, I don't think there's a QB on the roster who gives us a really good chance to win, though I think Kyle was doing decent. I thought Allen looked ok. Loved his mobility. People pointing out this one game--Smith looked terrible--but what do you expect from someone who hasn't played in 2 years, in these conditions? We obviously would have done better with Allen than Smith--but still not won--so who cares? We have maybe 2 more wins in us--and hopefully a top-3 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, megared said: Then you trade him in the middle of the night and without slandering him, and let him become another team's problem. What you don't do is slander the guy, to the point where his trade value is nil. You don't entitle selfish behavior by propping him up as a leader. It's Ron's job to get the most out of every player, transaction, opportunity. The second he doesn't he should be questioned. If it doesn't benefit WFT, why did you do it? He's the steward of the franchise, right? Who's slandering him? Specifically, who's slandering him? Keim? JP Finlay? Standig? Copeland? Lewis? Grant and Danny? Who's SLANDERING Haskins? And where's this slandering taking place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, megared said: Then you trade him in the middle of the night and without slandering him, and let him become another team's problem. What you don't do is slander the guy, to the point where his trade value is nil. You don't entitle selfish behavior by propping him up as a leader. It's Ron's job to get the most out of every player, transaction, opportunity. The second he doesn't he should be questioned. If it doesn't benefit WFT, why did you do it? He's the steward of the franchise, right? Again, you refuse to hold Haskins accountable in any way, shape, or form. P.S. It's not slander if it's true. P.P.S. Haskins' play did more harm than anything Rivera said or did. Most teams aren't dumb, they see the tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I recall this post because I responded to it. I understand being upset about Haskins being benched. But I agreed with you on Rivera. Rivera is a good head coach. this was less than 2 weeks ago, you are changing you mind based on one move? I don't always agree with the HC but heck especially in season 1, i'd give him some time. Rivera has a decent sample size as a HC but not here yet. And he's groomed a franchise QB before. This staff is mostly his old Carolina staff. Even the FO has changed quite a bit. I am not sure about the same old same old WFT applies here. It's a different regime, aside from Dan. TBH, I was lying to myself then. Pretty desperately, because I was having doubts. I started having doubts about Rivera the moment he mishandled the Trent situation, saying **** like Trent needed to prove himself. I hated the Trent and Dunbar and Allen trades. Didn't really like our draft and found myself having to rationalize most of our picks when my gut was telling me we missed opportunities and got poor value too often. And now that the situation has played out, I don't think Rivera and his staff gave any kind of good faith effort at developing Dwayne at all. I don't even think they've been honestly competing the games. That is painfully clear to me now. I try to be an optimistic fan, but it's just not possible for me without completely ignoring things I know to be mistakes which are the product of incompetence as they are unfolding. I've been watching a lot more NFL football the past several years, and it's pretty revelatory when you start comparing what you're seeing with the really competitive teams with what you know from watching us. It's good to see the way the good players operate, and how good coaches interact with their players, including competing and handling good players who are difficult. I don't think we've done enough to truly rebuild the franchise. All of the football side of the FO is pretty much the same sans Bruce. The coaching staff is just basically an import of a staff in Carolina that has not been strong the past several years, and to pile on top of that, the HC is clearly checked out because he's dealing with cancer. Right now he's worried about being able to stand up on the sideline for four hours until he can get home as much as he's worried about implementing some sort of long term vision for a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I started having doubts about Rivera the moment he mishandled the Trent situation, saying **** like Trent needed to prove himself. Trent had no desire to be here--and no one blamed him. Allen had a 1st round pick on the table for him and passed for his ego. No one blames Trent. 4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: the HC is clearly checked out because he's dealing with cancer. Right now he's worried about being able to stand up on the sideline for four hours until he can get home as much as he's worried about implementing some sort of long term vision for a rebuild. But has enough energy to slander poor, innocent Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: Who's slandering him? Specifically, who's slandering him? Keim? JP Finlay? Standig? Copeland? Lewis? Grant and Danny? Who's SLANDERING Haskins? And where's this slandering taking place? Anonymous sources within the org. Why's that occurring if Ron's solid on his decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: Who's slandering him? Specifically, who's slandering him? Keim? JP Finlay? Standig? Copeland? Lewis? Grant and Danny? Who's SLANDERING Haskins? And where's this slandering taking place? I think this is the problem. Journalists and reporters are no longer objective people. They all are "experts" and hence have their opinions about everything. In their mind, in order to keep their credibility (Twitter nerds don't let anyone forget anything anyone says) people like Standig, Keim even Cooley emphasize the things that support the things they've stood behind and downplay the things that don't. It may not be slandering, but there's a definite slant depending on how they original felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, megared said: Anonymous sources within the org. Why's that occurring if Ron's solid on his decision? Because all reporters have sources? And use them to get material to write reports on? This isn't new, this is what reporters do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, megared said: Anonymous sources within the org. Why's that occurring if Ron's solid on his decision? Damn those anonymous sources! They must be behind Haskins complete inability to throw to a wide open receiver or improve his fundamentals. ****ing assholes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 I feel like I’ve seen more media/twitter slandering the Team and Rivera for daring to bench Haskins than vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Just now, PartyPosse said: I think this is the problem. Journalists and reporters are no longer objective people. They all are "experts" and hence have their opinions about everything. In their mind, in order to keep their credibility (Twitter nerds don't let anyone forget anything anyone says) people like Standig, Keim even Cooley emphasize the things that support the things they've stood behind and downplay the things that don't. It may not be slandering, but there's a definite slant depending on how they original felt. Well, there are two types...there are the guys like Grant and Danny who are here to mostly provide infotainment...and there's a straight up guy like Keim who's on the beat and doesn't editorialize. Keim doesn't give his opinion (unless he's doing a fan mail response blog type format), he gives you what he's heard. Grant will give you what he's heard AND his opinion, there's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: It may not be slandering, but there's a definite slant depending on how they original felt. There are some people who take more pride in being right than others--mostly 106.7 personalities. However, people like Keim, I've never gotten that feel from. And the objective evidence shows Haskins was not improving. Just now, Spaceman Spiff said: Well, there are two types...there are the guys like Grant and Danny who are here to mostly provide infotainment...and there's a straight up guy like Keim who's on the beat and doesn't editorialize. Keim doesn't give his opinion (unless he's doing a fan mail response blog type format), he gives you what he's heard. Grant will give you what he's heard AND his opinion, there's a difference. We are so on the same page tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: I'm just a less excited fan. It reminds me of the McNabb controversy so much because he was a borderline HOF qb but comes here and has a bad season and all of a sudden we're hearing leaks about his work ethic, him being dumb, him not being wanted, etc. At lest RG3 got us 2012. You know..., in 2 years we'll have the 10th anniversary of 2012. Admit it, you felt even better seeing that run than you felt for that fleeting moment when you thought Gus Frerotte might develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemaskins Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/strong-expectation-dwayne-haskins-traded-before-deadline-and-some-rival-execs-are-already-watching-film/amp/ Anyone seen this? Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: Who's slandering him? Specifically, who's slandering him? Keim? JP Finlay? Standig? Copeland? Lewis? Grant and Danny? Who's SLANDERING Haskins? And where's this slandering taking place? I believe the slander is the insinuation that he faked sick because he was bitter about being benched, which a lot of people were saying loudly or that maybe he had COVID, which was also kind of loud, while the official team statement was he'd been sick for a few days, and didn't have COVID was said kind of quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 minute ago, carex said: I believe the slander is the insinuation that he faked sick because he was bitter about being benched, which a lot of people were saying loudly or that maybe he had COVID, which was also kind of loud, while the official team statement was he'd been sick for a few days, and didn't have COVID was said kind of quiet Who said that though? I didn't see any of the beats, or the coaching staff, say it. Did I miss it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Slander, slander, slander. My god. First of all, to call it slander indicates that what has been said is false. I’m not sure what would lead one to believe that it’s false considering what we have seen and heard both on and off the field. Nobody is saying he’s a bad kid, just that he hasn’t been putting in enough time and has rubbed some folks the wrong way with his actions. Secondly, what evidence do you have to suggest that this so-called “slander” is being leaked by any of the top brass or coaching staff in Ashburn? How would it benefit them to make up false accusations about Dwayne’s work ethic? Why would Rivera, who has no history of doing shady things to his players, make up reasons to defame Dwayne and subsequently depreciate an asset? Lastly, the other term I take issue with is ‘Scapegoat’. I did not glean from anything Ron has said that Dwayne was being targeted as the sole/primary reason for the losses. I don’t think anyone who has been watching this team is of the belief that this team is awesome and it’s merely Dwayne holding them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: TBH, I was lying to myself then. Pretty desperately, because I was having doubts. I started having doubts about Rivera the moment he mishandled the Trent situation, saying **** like Trent needed to prove himself. I hated the Trent and Dunbar and Allen trades. Didn't really like our draft and found myself having to rationalize most of our picks when my gut was telling me we missed opportunities and got poor value too often. And now that the situation has played out, I don't think Rivera and his staff gave any kind of good faith effort at developing Dwayne at all. I don't even think they've been honestly competing the games. That is painfully clear to me now. Trent wanted a big contract or out. Dunbar wanted a contract extension now before FA. Judging by PFF, Darby has been better than Dunbar and Fuller is one of the highest graded CBs in the league. So their FA moves at CB look good. Haskins to me is yawn, as excited as you are about him, to me he's "meh. I put in plenty of time myself in doing my evaluation of him. I wrote a long report on him. I am not saying i am right and you are wrong. Got no idea. But none of us agree on every player on the draft thread. I wasn't the only person with that take on Haskins on the draft thread. Though i do agree with you on most players and it would be boring if we all agreed on everyone. So Haskins being demoted doesn't bother me one whit. But more importantly, I trust Rivera and Zampese on that count. They know more about him than i do to say the least. Rivera inherited a crap roster. Instead of filling cap space with junk like his predecessor, he did a ton of one year contracts, he didn't overspend, they will have plenty of cap room next year. They have an extra third rounder. I am guessing they will be aggressive next off season and this season is an evaluation year. Rome isn't built overnight. 9 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: I feel like I’ve seen more media/twitter slandering the Team and Rivera for daring to bench Haskins than vice versa. For sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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