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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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I’m for giving Haskins the season because it’s only upside for the team if he fails (this includes achieving mediocrity) or succeeds. In the former situation, we get a better draft pick and have certainty in moving on to another QB. I have serious doubts he ever achieves success at this point given how badly he regressed to start this season. Unlike many of the posters here who may claim otherwise, I am rooting for him to succeed. I just can’t ignore the garbage play I’ve seen to date. Can’t miss wide open throws consistently AND turn the ball over.

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The pocket QB in today’s game is growing more and more difficult to nurture and let grow due to impact from young guys with mobility. 
Though,The mobile guys seem to hit a ceiling pretty quick and are left perplexed on how to beat a defense on 3rd and 7 consistently. 
 

Will be interesting to see how the good pocket QB measures up against the good mobile QB 10 years from now. Eliminating the elite on both sides from the discussion. 
 

Is the timeline and ceiling to develop the pocket versus the mobile QB different? Should there be different expectations? 

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4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Oh I am rooting for B for sure.  But I'm also not going to get fooled by a few good halves or games.  Fans always do that.  

 

This is where I'm at. I've made so many excuses for Redskins qbs in my life that I'm just going to be different with the new regime. But if he turned out to be the one to lead us and change our culture, I wouldn't care. I'd be absolutely shocked, but would support him. 

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2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

The pocket QB in today’s game is growing more and more difficult to nurture and let grow due to impact from young guys with mobility. 
Though,The mobile guys seem to hit a ceiling pretty quick and are left perplexed on how to beat a defense on 3rd and 7 consistently. 
 

Will be interesting to see how the good pocket QB measures up against the good mobile QB 10 years from now. Eliminating the elite on both sides from the discussion. 
 

Is the timeline and ceiling to develop the pocket versus the mobile QB different? Should there be different expectations? 

 

The dual threat Qbs are so hard to defend.   As long as they are good at protecting themselves they are going to be hard to stop.  Clearly, though the Russell Wilson types are more lethal who can burn you with both their legs and arm. 

 

That was a QB's coaches point about Justin Fields.  In his mind, he can run burn you with his legs like L. Jackson but he can also burn you with his arm better than L. Jackson, who knows if that's true, but in theory Qbs like that are very intriguing. 

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1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Haskins doesn't deserve anything.  Rivera and company should be allowed to select the quarterback that they want going forward.

I don’t know how eager Ron would be to select the QB that got him fired at his last gig.

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1 hour ago, CTskin said:

Deserves was the wrong word. It would be a disservice to the team if we didn’t see what Haskins could truly do. Second season, new offense, shortened offseason... we all saw what he did late last season, there is something there. Throwing in the towel now is short sighted and lacking comprehension of the situation. 

 

With a minimum of 200 passes, he had the worst qbr in the NFL last year. And he's last again this year. I have no clue what you're watching. By many statistics he's been the worst qb in the NFL his 10 starts. 

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"To be honest with you, as you look at what’s happening in our division, I don’t want that to be too late," Rivera said of possibly making a QB switch.

"We're in first place at 1-2, tied with Dallas. We have one team that’s 0-2-1 and another team that’s 0-3."

Through three weeks the NFC East is a shambles, and Washington might have the best defense in the division. The Giants look terrible on both sides of the ball and Washington already beat the Eagles in Week 1.

 

If Dallas keeps limping, and Washington's defense can continue to impress, then improved quarterback play could sneak Washington into a playoff contender.

Rivera knows this scenario because he's done it before. 

"We have to look where we are right now and say, ‘Gosh, we might be in position,’" the coach said. "That's something you have to think about as well. It will play into [the quarterback decision], trust me. I went through this in 2014."

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Josh Allen
Jared Goff
Drew Brees
Ryan Tannehill
Kirk Cousins
Matt Hasselbeck
Drew Brees
David Carr
Kyle Orton
Alex Smith

What is this list???? 
 

DAVID Carr? When was he ever decent? Did he get another job after he left Houston? He’s one of the biggest busts of all time. And then someone replied with “yeah that’s a good one” lol. Huh

 

Kyle Orton was great?? At what? Scrabble? 
 

Matt Hasselbeck was never terrible. He was a 6th round back up to freaking Brett Favre. He got to Seattle and became an average QB

 

Kirk Cousins won a crucial road game in the middle of a playoff run by throwing for 300 yards and 2 TDs in his first start. He looked decent in back up duty in various games. His first start in 2013 was nearly a win where he threw for almost 400 yards, 3 TDs, and 2 picks in Atlanta. He sucked the next two starts before getting another shot in 2014 where he was on fire the first two stats vs Jax and Phi before having another bad valley for the rest of 2014. In 2015, he re-wrote the team’s record book and the rest is history as he became a decent nfl starter. He was following a normal young QB progression path and ppl realized that he could be decent from the jump (at least those that gave him a chance). 

Another weird narrative is that Ryan Tannehill was terrible. Was he particularly great? No. But seriously google his stats. He was 7-9 his first season. .500 the next 2 years. 6-10 in 2015 but 8-5 in 2016 before he got hurt. Miami didn’t want to commit long term which makes sense but he was never terrible. I’ll attach his stats in Miami 

 

Josh Allen is another overblown example because he could rush for 500-600 yards a year so they made him valuable enough to wait for him to become a better passer.

 

And where did the Drew Brees thing come from? He was a pro bowler in SD. He threw for 3K, had 17 TDs, and 16 picks in an 8-8 year as a first time starter. If Dwayne did that, no one would be questioning him. Drew had a poor year in 2003 but he was a pro bowler in 2004 with an 11-4 record. SD didn’t want to pay him because he had a shoulder issue. Their mistake obviously 

I’ll concede Goff and Alex Smith. 
 

But man that list was a REACH

B8EF5A50-9804-4998-884A-738E54236128.png

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12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

"To be honest with you, as you look at what’s happening in our division, I don’t want that to be too late," Rivera said of possibly making a QB switch.

"We're in first place at 1-2, tied with Dallas. We have one team that’s 0-2-1 and another team that’s 0-3."

Through three weeks the NFC East is a shambles, and Washington might have the best defense in the division. The Giants look terrible on both sides of the ball and Washington already beat the Eagles in Week 1.

 

If Dallas keeps limping, and Washington's defense can continue to impress, then improved quarterback play could sneak Washington into a playoff contender.

Rivera knows this scenario because he's done it before. 

"We have to look where we are right now and say, ‘Gosh, we might be in position,’" the coach said. "That's something you have to think about as well. It will play into [the quarterback decision], trust me. I went through this in 2014."

 

 

 

 

I'm starting to get super high hopes for Ron again!! We can compete for the NFC East and switching qbs sooner than later might be the way! Love it.

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28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The dual threat Qbs are so hard to defend.   As long as they are good at protecting themselves they are going to be hard to stop.  Clearly, though the Russell Wilson types are more lethal who can burn you with both their legs and arm. 

 

That was a QB's coaches point about Justin Fields.  In his mind, he can run burn you with his legs like L. Jackson but he can also burn you with his arm better than L. Jackson, who knows if that's true, but in theory Qbs like that are very intriguing. 


Took Wilson many years to get where he is now, him being able to hurt you with his arm the was he is now. He was unable to see coverages and dissect teams as he has the last two to three seasons.
 

Hes an example of the elite/hall of fame and it still took 5 seasons or so to be an elite dual threat. 

 

Soon the term for the elite will be the triple threat QB:

 

Running ability, arm talent, and ability to read coverages pre and post snap.  
 

 

Side note: I still think there’s value for the dual threat QB, but it’s decreasing more and more each year, due to more and more guys providing this threat throughout the league. For example, the value of RG3 his rookie season in 2012 would be lower today in the 2020 season, but value still remains. 

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7 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I'm starting to get super high hopes for Ron again!! We can compete for the NFC East and switching qbs sooner than later might be the way! Love it.


After that comment by Ron I doubt Haskins is the QB second half against the Ravens unless of course he lights it up. You can’t make that comment publicly then not pull the trigger. We are at the end of the Haskins era. 

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1 minute ago, wit33 said:


Took Wilson many years to get where he is now, him being able to hurt you with his arm the was he is now. He was unable to see coverages and dissect teams as he has the last two to three seasons.
 

Hes an example of the elite/hall of fame and it still took 5 seasons or so to be an elite dual threat. 

 

Soon the term for the elite will be the triple threat QB:

 

Running ability, arm talent, and ability to read coverages pre and post snap.  

 

He's been a pro bowl level qb since his rookie year. Just wasn't putting up MVP numbers like the last 3 seasons. It's not like he was a mediocre dual threat qb then became an elite player.

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


After that comment by Ron I doubt Haskins is the QB second half against the Ravens unless of course he lights it up. You can’t make that comment publicly then not pull the trigger. We are at the end of the Haskins era. 

 

Agree. I'm so happy to hear those comments, validates everything I thought about Ron and what he'd bring to the team. And I think people are crazy to think Ron does not want to win the nfc east and go to the playoffs his first year as head coach with the raw team he has. What coach wouldn't? And if all it takes is a qb switch, why wouldn't he. Absolutely love it!

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3 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

 

He's been a pro bowl level qb since his rookie year. Just wasn't putting up MVP numbers like the last 3 seasons. It's not like he was a mediocre dual threat qb then became an elite player.


Most definitely, he was a great dual threat QB during a period of time when there wasn’t many. His value to the run game during those years and his overall playmaking was immense. 
 

 

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15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I put 0% of Haskins issues on Jay.   100% on Dan. 

 

I'll be honest, I'm pre-disposed to put things on Jay.  And I even said that it was Bruce/Dan's fault for putting Jay in that spot.  

 

But sometimes your boss deals you a hand and you have to deal with it the best way you can.  Jay didn't do that. For that, I put some of the blame on Jay.  

 

I also think he could have turned the "win or you're out" upside down by doubling down on Haskins from the get-go.  "You drafted him, I'm going to get him ready to play and play him."  That is probably the tactic which would have bought him more time, actually.

 

Regardless, it doesn't matter.  For whatever reason, Haskins missed an entire off-season of development in his rookie year, and that's just a crappy situation to be in.  

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28 minutes ago, wit33 said:


Took Wilson many years to get where he is now, him being able to hurt you with his arm the was he is now. He was unable to see coverages and dissect teams as he has the last two to three seasons.
 

Hes an example of the elite/hall of fame and it still took 5 seasons or so to be an elite dual threat. 

 

Soon the term for the elite will be the triple threat QB:

 

Running ability, arm talent, and ability to read coverages pre and post snap.  
 

 

Side note: I still think there’s value for the dual threat QB, but it’s decreasing more and more each year, due to more and more guys providing this threat throughout the league. For example, the value of RG3 his rookie season in 2012 would be lower today in the 2020 season, but value still remains. 

 

Agree that Wilson developed.  But he's been productive from the outset but no doubt he's improved each season.

 

I agree that RG3's 2012 season would come off less unqiue now then years back.  But not sure about the relevance.  If you get a D. Watson maybe he's not as unique but he's still hard to stop.  Once Josh Allen's has connected his arm to his legs he's been hard to stop, too.   Defenses aren't really catching up. 

 

It's like investing in FANG stocks.  Maybe Amazon isn't as unique with Netflix, Apple, Google , Facebook all being giants in their own right.  But you are still likely making lots of money regardless of which stock you ride. 

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30 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

But sometimes your boss deals you a hand and you have to deal with it the best way you can.  Jay didn't do that. For that, I put some of the blame on Jay.  

 

 

Forget your disdain for Jay's coaching for a second (I get your angst, etc on that front 😀) and put yourself in his shoes.  Look I'd feel the same way if this was Jim Zorn who was my version of who Jay was to you.

 

You get foisted a QB that you or some of your buddies in the FO at worst also weren't high on and at best he/they thought maybe in 2020 he could develop but not yet.  The owner basically suggests you/they are wrong (same owner who has gotten the Qb position wrong at an infamous level over his 20 year tenure).

 

Tough for me to guess who was with Dan, one beat guy suggested Bruce was, and I suspected Doug might have been on board too judging by some comments that were made at the time but I don't know.

 

So you got a QB where the owner is foisting the dude on you and you aren't on an island as to believing Dan is wrong.  Then supposedly that same QB doesn't look good in practice and doesn't kill it either as for putting in extra hours to improve. And to Dan's credit he didn't put a verdict on Jay playing Haskins right away or at least so it seemed. 

 

So you got a raw QB that you don't 100% believe in who you don't think is putting in the time to excel.  And you are in a win now season.  So why would you expect the head coach to take extra time to groom a QB during a season that he doesn't expect him to play?  You got Keenum winning the job and you had to teach him the system not Haskins.  You could say Keenum isn't the future and Haskins was but that's a fans point of view -- that's not the point of view i would think for dudes coaching for their lives that season. 

 

If Jay was brought back in 2020, I'd get your point.  But otherwise what was he supposed to do with Haskins?  He's not the Qb coach. Haskins had people working with him.  Jay is running the whole team.  Why should he have made Haskins a side pet project when his job was on the line during the season?

 

 

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I am not in the start Kyle Allen camp but interesting

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/david-carr-believes-kyle-allen-currently-gives-washington-its-best-chance

 

almost everyone tracking Dwayne Haskins' progress these days is concerned. Former No. 1 overall pick David Carr is a part of that group

The now-analyst published a story on Tuesday where he looked at six muddled quarterback situations around the league and gave his opinion on each depth chart.

Carr's take on what's happening in Washington was eye-catching.

"Haskins presents a lot of upside as a former first-round pick, but at some point, Washington must decide whether to wait it out or attempt to salvage the season by playing Kyle Allen," Carr wrote. "To me, Allen gives this team the best chance to win at this point in time."

That's an opinion that some, including DeAngelo Hall, have held since the organization acquired the ex-Panther in a trade this past offseason. And if Haskins continues on the turnover-and-inaccuracy-plagued path that he's on, it's one that'll gain more traction.

"I've seen Haskins miss a lot of throws," Carr wrote. "Though he started seven games as a first-year pro in 2019, he still looks like a rookie working through a preseason."


 

While Ron Rivera and the Washington Football Team as a whole would like to give Haskins a lot more time to figure his way out in the NFL, that'll be increasingly difficult to do if he has more outings like his "disaster" in Cleveland. 

 

On Monday, Rivera appeared frustrated that Haskins' shortcomings cancelled out what he felt like were worthy performances by the rest of the roster. He said that a lot of players "deserved better" than the two-touchdown defeat they suffered.

Carr is wary of what more losses like Week 3's could do to the locker room.

"My worry is, if Haskins doesn't visibly improve over the next few weeks, the staff will lose the rest of the team," he wrote.

Though Rivera isn't turning to Allen yet, everyone knows that he and Scott Turner are fond of the backup. They've won in the league with him leading an offense in the past and people like Carr think they'd be better off trying him in the lineup again.

Should they make that decision, though, that could mean the end for Haskins in Burgundy and Gold. So Carr understands why they are remaining committed to him for now.

"That said, if Haskins is benched," Carr concluded, "I'm afraid he won't regain the confidence he'll need to get back out there, this season or beyond."

 
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1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

What is this list???? 
 

DAVID Carr? When was he ever decent? Did he get another job after he left Houston? He’s one of the biggest busts of all time. And then someone replied with “yeah that’s a good one” lol. Huh

 

David Carr had ratings of 62.8, 69.5, 83.5, 77.2, 82.1. Those last three years he was throwing the ball to Andre Johnson and considered a rising star at QB who needed a good OL. 

 

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

Kyle Orton was great?? At what? Scrabble? 
 

 

Kyle Orton had ratings of 59.7, 73.9, 79.6, 86.8, 87.5. Again not superstar level but he was a stable QB that was good in Chi and Den, but neither team wanted him because he wasn't elite. 

 

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Matt Hasselbeck was never terrible. He was a 6th round back up to freaking Brett Favre. He got to Seattle and became an average QB

 

Matt Hasselback had a rating of 70.9 in his first season as a starter in Seattle with a 54.8 completion percentage. Over the next 10 years he saw a peak rating of 98.2. That's improvement. 

 

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:


Another weird narrative is that Ryan Tannehill was terrible. Was he particularly great? No. But seriously google his stats. He was 7-9 his first season. .500 the next 2 years. 6-10 in 2015 but 8-5 in 2016 before he got hurt. Miami didn’t want to commit long term which makes sense but he was never terrible. I’ll attach his stats in Miami 

 

you're right he was never horrible. I saw him at 76.1, and thats a big difference from where he finished last year (117.5) but its not bad at  all. 

 

 

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

And where did the Drew Brees thing come from? He was a pro bowler in SD. He threw for 3K, had 17 TDs, and 16 picks in an 8-8 year as a first time starter. If Dwayne did that, no one would be questioning him. Drew had a poor year in 2003 but he was a pro bowler in 2004 with an 11-4 record. SD didn’t want to pay him because he had a shoulder issue. Their mistake obviously 

 

 

Drew Brees had ratings of 76.9 and 67.5 his first two years. His third tyear he had 104.8 and 4th he had 89.2, but he was not elite at all before this. He was 8-8 then 2-9 and that's why he became a case study for patience (as well as size not being everything). 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

David Carr had ratings of 62.8, 69.5, 83.5, 77.2, 82.1. Those last three years he was throwing the ball to Andre Johnson and considered a rising star at QB who needed a good OL. 

 

 

That's why no one uses passer rating any more. There is no context to it, David Carr was absolutely awful. He threw more picks than tds, average less than a td per game, threw less than 160 yards per game, had a career 23-56 record. The only thing he had going for him is he had a decent completion %. But he was an absolute bust and a terrible NFL qb. 

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1 hour ago, wit33 said:

The pocket QB in today’s game is growing more and more difficult to nurture and let grow due to impact from young guys with mobility. 
Though,The mobile guys seem to hit a ceiling pretty quick and are left perplexed on how to beat a defense on 3rd and 7 consistently. 

 

I'm not sure this second statement is correct at all. I see players like Dak, Russel, Lamar and Patrick consistently converting with no issues. And the ceiling seems to be MVP seasons and Superbowls.

2 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:


not sure how accurate this even is, but wouldn’t be surprised. 

Not surprising but dismaying for sure. FO(Snyder) needs to stay out of football decisions. Let Ron be Ron.

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