PartyPosse Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: Solid supporting cast? They have CMC and he’s great but outside of that they have DJ Moore (solid receiver. Not better than Terry tho. Not close tbh) and Curtis Samuel (average vet). They also had broken down Greg Olsen who was constantly hurt. That’s better than what we currently have but not by much. They were 5-11. Moore is on par with Terry. He’s a real good receiver. Samuel is what we expect Sims to be or even Gibson. A reliable durable TE like Olsen is so important. CMC is the most dynamic player in the NFL right now. They have a lot more than we do. Allen is not a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: And Ron has said as much. This is a learning and developmental year. (This next statement won't surprise anybody who knows my posting history. It's very on brand, if you will.) I blame Gruden a lot for essentially ignoring Haskins and setting him back by basically an entire off-season last year. (I blame Bruce/Dan for putting Jay in that position too. It's not one stop shopping for suckitutude). Regardless, Haskins first was ignored, then put in before he was ready, and Keim believes and has stated on the record Jay put Haskins in the game against New York because he thought he was getting fired after that game and he wanted to show everybody how far Haskins was from being ready. Keim is not one to throw things like that around lightly, and he's also not one to really stir the pot like that unless he really believes it. And I'm not entirely sure even _I_ believe it, but at the very least, I think you can safely say Haskins was not ready for the Giants game and there was no good outcome for him in that situation. I put 0% of Haskins issues on Jay. 100% on Dan. Keim also said that it wasn't just Jay who didn't want him at 15 but also Kyle Smith and other scouts in that building. If the FO loved Haskins and Jay was the outlier then maybe I'd agree with you. And nope according to multiple beat guys it wasn't all them loving him and they just thought it would take time. I've heard enough from different beat guys who have talked about it. It was also said Dan would crow to others during the college season that Haskins is the best player in the draft. Jay was in a win or else season and they took a Qb who he didn't want. He's somewhat supposed to throw that out the window and put his job on the line for the future of the organization? Nope IMO. Win now in a win now season. And I'd add in the practices I watched Haskins was mostly bad. He looked like a project. Keenum and Colt looked much more ready. And the beat guys who watched more practices than I did echoed pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I do agree that the "we know who he is" argument in relation to Allen makes zero sense...we have no idea who he could become ("we" meaning fans lol). I would like the team to (finally) develop a young, talented QB the right way for once. I can't say specifically what that should consist of, but when it comes to Haskins I'd like to think it at least includes giving him as many starts as Kyle Allen before reaching any conclusions. This is essentially the entirety of the argument I’m making. Why does Haskins need more time but we know who Allen is? I’m not, by any means, pining for Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: This is essentially the entirety of the argument I’m making. Why does Haskins need more time but we know who Allen is? I’m not, by any means, pining for Allen. What is it exactly that you want to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, CTskin said: Okay it’s easy to state these “measurables” after an absolutely disastrous game. I’m sure you were singing a different tune after the eagles game. the recency bias is strong here. kyler and burrow were #1 overall picks, Herbert was also up there, top 5 pick I believe? They weren’t in the same category as Haskins coming out. Jones is doing the same thing Haskins is doing. Minshew is the anomaly, whose success to this day has people duMbfounded. Deandre Hopkins probably wouldn’t appreciate that last statement. I’d also say as a whole, every one of those teams has a much better wr Corp... part of our problem is that all we have is McClaurin and our opponents know this. again, I’m not a fan of Haskins (obviously would love to see him succeed for the team), but how can people/you completely disregard the reality of his situation? I truly don’t like taking this stance, but I don’t see any qb having success here in our current state. because we watch the games and see with our own eyes him missing throws that an average qb can make. He might not have a great supporting cast but he definitely isn’t making it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Haskins just dosen't have it..If he keeps playing like he has then Ron will have no choice,but to bench him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, wit33 said: What is it exactly that you want to happen? From an on-field perspective? I don’t care. I’d argue that I’d rather see Haskins get the reps because you can’t bench him... if you do you lose him... and Allen is already a backup and we haven’t lost him yet. Haskins was also the owner’s guy, so letting him get the reps will either show our owner that he’s not the guy and to butt out or give us our quarterback. But from a fan perspective... I’d like to see a bit less hypocrisy. There is nothing saying Haskins is better than Allen. Not a single thing. And it’s not out of order to believe the opposite either. Let’s not pretend that Haskins is eons better than Allen. Both guys could use a little developmental time. Every time I read someone say that “we know what we have in Allen, but need to see more from Haskins”... I cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: This is essentially the entirety of the argument I’m making. Why does Haskins need more time but we know who Allen is? I’m not, by any means, pining for Allen. I would say Haskins needs more time more than Allen due to: 3 different head coaches, including one who allegedly didn’t want him on the team 3 different offensive coordinators 3 different offensive schemes Several games with nothing but rookie WRs—a rookie QB playing with 3 rookie WRS hadn’t happened in something like 40 years No viable TE Highly dysfunctional coaching staff Even more dysfunctional front office Franchise with a ton of off-field controversy and distractions Zero continuity Then on top of that: No OTAs this year No preseason games this year Truncated training camp Kyle Allen didn't have to experience even half of that. None of that is why his mechanics are bad or why he stares down WRs. But it does play a role in how well and how quickly he starts to overcome flaws in his game. It was widely said before the draft that whoever takes Haskins would be wise to let him sit for a year due to his lack of experience because he needed a lot of work and needed to be developed, but his potential ceiling was so high it would be worth taking a chance on him. Just as long as you were willing to develop him correctly because he wouldn’t be ready to start right away. You take a QB like that, and throw him into a chaotic, controversy-ridden, distraction-plagued dumpster fire--in the middle of a pandemic where he had to learn a new system over freaking ZOOM meetings lol—and yeah, I'd say he needs a bit more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, Califan007 said: I would say Haskins needs more time more than Allen due to: 3 different head coaches, including one who allegedly didn’t want him on the team 3 different offensive coordinators 3 different offensive schemes Several games with nothing but rookie WRs—a rookie QB playing with 3 rookie WRS hadn’t happened in something like 40 years No viable TE Highly dysfunctional coaching staff Even more dysfunctional front office Franchise with a ton of off-field controversy and distractions Zero continuity Then on top of that: No OTAs this year No preseason games this year Truncated training camp Kyle Allen didn't have to experience even half of that. None of that is why his mechanics are bad or why he stares down WRs. But it does play a role in how well and how quickly he starts to overcome flaws in his game. It was widely said before the draft that whoever takes Haskins would be wise to let him sit for a year due to his lack of experience because he needed a lot of work and needed to be developed, but his potential ceiling was so high it would be worth taking a chance on him. Just as long as you were willing to develop him correctly because he wouldn’t be ready to start right away. You take a QB like that, and throw him into a chaotic, controversy-ridden, distraction-plagued dumpster fire--in the middle of a pandemic where he had to learn a new system over freaking ZOOM meetings lol—and yeah, I'd say he needs a bit more time. And Allen hasn’t had a single snap here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 When you look at the rest of our schedule, it doesn't really matter who we put in at QB. Either one could probably beat the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, KDawg said: And Allen hasn’t had a single snap here. Not sure what you're trying to say here lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Nobody knows Allen better than our guys & they went with DH... in a battle that wasn’t particularly close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Kyle was literally only brought in because of his familiarity with the system and with Ron. If Covid wasn’t a thing I can all but guarantee we wouldn’t have given up a 5th for him. Kyle is an absolute last case scenario and we ain’t close to that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Allen might end up sucking but no one knows how he’d look with this team since they haven’t seen it. We know how they look with Haskins. I don’t care how bad Allen ended the season, his first 6 starts are enough for me to want to see what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: Not sure what you're trying to say here lol... Excuses fly all over for Haskins. Allen hasn’t even had a shot. But somehow “we” know he can’t be the guy... yet Haskins... who has shown much less from almost every perspective (with a lesser cast as well) could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Disagree with that last sentence, but there isn't a lot to draw positives from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, volsmet said: Nobody knows Allen better than our guys & they went with DH... in a battle that wasn’t particularly close. It’s a pretty normal thing for a qb who gets chosen to start to get replaced when they play terribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, volsmet said: Nobody knows Allen better than our guys & they went with DH... in a battle that wasn’t particularly close. 1 minute ago, PartyPosse said: Kyle was literally only brought in because of his familiarity with the system and with Ron. If Covid wasn’t a thing I can all but guarantee we wouldn’t have given up a 5th for him. Kyle is an absolute last case scenario and we ain’t close to that yet. I don’t necessarily disagree with either of you. I’m not arguing for... or against. It’s just laughable how many chances Haskins has been given and people don’t want to give the other guy any... I’m not even saying he should get one. I’m saying I don’t think Haskins has shown anything to warrant it, either, and we shouldn’t count a guy we’ve never seen in our uniform out but continue to believe in a guy who has proven nothing in our uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, KDawg said: Excuses fly all over for Haskins. Allen hasn’t even had a shot. But somehow “we” know he can’t be the guy... yet Haskins... who has shown much less from almost every perspective (with a lesser cast as well) could be. Outside of ignoring context (which you are labeling as "excuses"), I'm not sure why you responded to my earlier post with this thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderInTheRye Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Jumbo said: TrancesWithWolves said: I am proud of you grasshopper. Jumbo replied: well thanks, but you got it backwards, o stick that has been dipped you'll be lucky if we ever let you in the temple without a broom Old Confuse-us proverb: If all grasshoppers knew that they were grasshoppers they wouldn’t be grasshoppers. ”You may contemplate this on the tree of woe.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: Outside of ignoring context (which you are labeling as "excuses"), I'm not sure why you responded to my earlier post with this thought process. I think I’ve been very clear. We’ve seen Haskins do very little. Yet the guy who has shown more at the NFL level... we as fans know who he is. I haven’t ignored context, by the way. My opinions on Haskins and the situation here are very well documented. He was dealt a turd sandwich. But let’s not pretend Allen landed in utopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don’t necessarily disagree with either of you. I’m not arguing for... or against. It’s just laughable how many chances Haskins has been given and people don’t want to give the other guy any... I’m not even saying he should get one. I’m saying I don’t think Haskins has shown anything to warrant it, either, and we shouldn’t count a guy we’ve never seen in our uniform out but continue to believe in a guy who has proven nothing in our uniform. This is an organization that gave Kirk Cousins 6 years and 75 million dollars while waiting for him and now it’s absurd to give a guy a season’s worth of starts? 4 minutes ago, KDawg said: It’s just laughable how many chances Haskins has been given and people don’t want to give the other guy any... He’s started, what, 10 games and he’s been given that many chances? He’s literally been given one chance. Why this need to just flip flop QBs all the time? You think it’s that easy to just go from one to another to another just because? This is Haskins’ one chance. If he gets benched I doubt he’ll get another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: This is an organization that gave Kirk Cousins 6 years and 75 million dollars while waiting for him and now it’s absurd to give a guy a season’s worth of starts? ......is this a serious post? Waiting for him to do what? He didn’t get paid until after he re-wrote the team passing record book in 2015. He was a contributor to a division winning team his rookie year. Turning out a performance on the road in a must win game that Haskins would kill for. Why are ppl mentioning Kirk in this thread like the situations arent even remotely close? It’s hard to take you seriously when you use outlandish points like these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, PartyPosse said: This is an organization that gave Kirk Cousins 6 years and 75 million dollars while waiting for him and now it’s absurd to give a guy a season’s worth of starts? For the record, I wasn’t on board with Kirk. So that point is irrelevant here. Also, I didn’t say the second part. In fact, I’m on record saying the opposite. I’ve also not once said I want to see Allen. Let me make it simpler: Why do we know what Allen can do, but we don’t know what Haskins is capable of? I’d argue Allen is much more of a mystery at this point to us. Which is where I am. If anything we know who Haskins is. Not Allen. Again, to be clear: I don’t think either is the guy. I don’t even know if Allen is better. Not my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, KDawg said: I think I’ve been very clear. We’ve seen Haskins do very little. Yet the guy who has shown more at the NFL level... we as fans know who he is. I haven’t ignored context, by the way. My opinions on Haskins and the situation here are very well documented. He was dealt a turd sandwich. But let’s not pretend Allen landed in utopia. Are you getting me mixed up with someone else? lol..you're arguing stances I never took or posted. My only comment about Allen was in giving a possible explanation as to why "he needs more time" is being attached to Haskins more than to Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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