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Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

The Haskins conversation reeks of the Payne conversation from last years draft. Everyone knew that Payne was only a run stopper, and thus wasn't worth the 13th pick. Now it's about these criticisms of Haskins. And i get the idea that we're going into the deadest part of the off-season, but it's amazing how much people know so early. It reminds me of the teacher who knew I'd be in jail by 25. How about we let it play out. Besides no matter where he is now, if he can learn and improve, he can succeed. 

 

To me Haskins is so different a conversation than Payne.   I get the point is we don't know.  I agree.  Naturally no way to know about any prospect.   That pertains to the positive hype too.  We are all guessing.  The arguments though on the two players and stakes to me are very different though.  

 

Granted my position on Payne wasn't per se what everyone was saying. But I recall at least some were with me that it was simply we wanted Derwin James over him.  It's not exactly like we got egg on our face about that a year later -- after Derwin James was rookie of the year and first team all pro.  I thought Payne had some pass rush in him then and stated so before the season.  I thought good player but not sure about great.

 

With Haskins there is some bust worries by some.  If Haskins ends up "good" but not great or another QB ends up better than him (like the Payne argument by some) -- its still a home run pick.   If the Redskins swing for the fences and end up with a good QB, it would be an amazing feat for Dan's era considering how epically he's struck out at QB in different ways for 20 years.  And even bigger for the organization that has struck out at the position going back even longer save arguably for a 4th rounder in 2012. 

 

If they get a franchise QB even if its just a good one as opposed to a great one it IMO would set the organization up for years and turn the tide.  If they don't, the organization will continue to seem perpetually doomed at that position.  I was watching NFL Network's power ranking show where we were ranked near the bottom and even below the Giants.  Elliot Harrison's explanation was something like this:  its the Redskins, do we really think QB is going to work out well?

 

As for my opinion, I had him as my #3 QB in this draft after Murray and Lock.  My gut is 50-50 bust-boom.  So I am straddling the fence mostly.   I didn't want him at 15 but now that they took him, I'll go on the ride and see what happens.  My opinion is if they can improve his ability to move in the pocket and quicken his footwork, they got a gem.  Also fix his deep ball game where he seems to under throw them too much.   If they can't fix it, I think we will be looking for a new guy in 2-3 years or so.  If they do make it work, the Redskins finally escape the bad to mediocre dungeon that they've been mostly living in for 20 plus years.   Will see.

 

That's why to me this youtube video below is funny and apt.  The Payne pick was relatively low stakes as to the big picture.  Haskins IMO is very high stakes to the big picture.  And obviously, i hope it works out. 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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8 hours ago, SkinsNoles21 said:

 

 

I looked up his stats. He wasn't even that great. He wouldn't have made it past his rookie deal in today's NFL. 

 

 

We've reached a point where white people are comfortable with black QBs now ... IFFFFF they fit a certain mold. 

 

When they succeed with their mind and their arm, like Jameis Winston or Dwayne Haskins, they don't know how to handle it. 

 

Daniel Jones is trash. 

Ummm... I'm white and have never had a problem with black QBs.  

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IMO the fundamental question that will determine Haskins' fate is this, how do you develop and use him? Look around the league, there are a lot of examples of young QBs that were either highly touted pre-draft, or barely noticed, that completely confounded those supposedly "expert" assessments. People laughed at Chi taking Trubitsky, there was talk about whether Mahomes could play in the pros, Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson............. quite a few brand new toys have been unwrapped and when someone actually read the instructions first, they were smokin'. Others that fit comfortably into peoples perceptions and were handled in the same ole way by teams have yet to impress. Who would rather have Darnold? Or Rosen? 

 

The success stories hinge on an organization making the effort and stepping aside from their egos to use these kids to the best of their abilities, play to their strengths and build a team around them. If Jay & Co. sit the kid for a year of pounding his square peg ass into their preconceived round holes, he may never approach anything memorable. The same way that if they just throw him in and let him do what he wants without the parenting, he could be RG3 2.0. To my admittedly rook eye, this has kid something, he has some game and could become a transformational player for this team, but that won't just fall out of the air like rain. He needs to be mentored, coached in the best sense of the word and have a system and gameplan that allows him to flourish. THAT'S what I worry about.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I mean, Harmon is a less athletic Doctson.  

 

Harmon can run like, 2 routes right now.  Fade and comeback.  He struggles seriously vs press, he can't run any in routes, corners sniff those out immediately.  I love his effort with run blocking and how he fights for 50/50 balls.  He's extremely raw with his route running and not tipping his releases/breaks.  His best route is definitely the come back, that's the only one he's kind of refined.

 

Harmon and Doctson are not the same kind of receiver, not sure why you’d compare them. The biggest knock on a Doctson is his physicality. He is more athletic. They both were known for getting the 50/50 balls but they go about it differently. 

 

And the fade and comeback are not the only routes Harmon can run. You’ve obviously not watched enough, or any. The double move is probably his best route. But he routinely ran ever route successfully. 

Edited by dballer
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9 hours ago, SkinsNoles21 said:

 

I'll preface this by saying I do not care about your opinion, but nowhere in there at all did I compare the two or suggest anyone as a bar for anyone else. I simply suggested they have similarities in that they are african-american quarterbacks who do not run or use their athleticism, but instead rely on their head and arm to play QB. Read the conversation. Those are just simple facts anyone who's watched either of the two play can agree with. 

 

You just basically went off on your own irrelevant tangent. 👍 

 

 

You're right you said Jameis Winston was successful..that threw me off a bit.  😉

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I just don't see how after less than 20 games we're so knowledgeable. I haven't seen much of his tape, but i can understand those who say things like "because I've seen x from him, i think he can do x in the pros", but stuff like criticizing his scrambling ability or running ability, maybe he will never be Vick or RG3, but it's that what we were looking for with this pick? I think the question is more will be be able to anticipate pressures (trash at his feet), and make quick good decisions. There are examples of this, but also a lot of examples of him throwing from a clean pocket. 

 

This is why I brought up Payne. People were so sure he couldn't pass rush, but he did in the championship game and did his rookie year. 

 

In all honesty though, u think this is like the Ramsey year. Sure we spent a first on him, but if he doesn't work, we just try again. It's not like the rg3 or Campbell trades that set us back for future years because we traded up. And unlike the ramsey years, we actually have a nice system for a rookie qb with a good defense and good rbs, so maybe it's closer to Sanchez. 

 

I just keep thinking patience young grasshopper. 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 stuff like criticizing his scrambling ability or running ability, maybe he will never be Vick or RG3, but it's that what we were looking for with this pick? I think the question is more will be be able to anticipate pressures (trash at his feet), and make quick good decisions. There are examples of this, but also a lot of examples of him throwing from a clean pocket. 

 

I am presuming that your post is likely not addressed to me considering some of the content in it repeats points I've made in agreement.  So sorry for butting in if I am doing that.  To weigh in on the critique:  quick feet and movement in the pocket is a totally different drill than scrambling and running ability.  Romo for example wasn't fast but had quick feet and knew had to dodge pressure.  Brady has quick feet. 

 

To my eyes, Haskins doesn't have quick feet.  He has moments when he does but by and large IMO he's not that fluid moving laterally in the pocket and dodging pressure with his feet.   That's why I was wondering can a Drew Bledsoe type succeed in today's NFL or can the footwork be improved?    I wasn't in love with Josh Rosen as an example.  He's not fast.  But the dude does have quick nimble feet in the pocket.  That to me was obvious watching him.  Haskins didn't leave me with that impression.    I was just listening to Russini talk about why the Giants didn't like Haskins and it likewise centered on his footwork in the pocket.    

 

I don't think people's worries about Haskins are wild.   Likewise I don't think optimism about Haskins is wild either.  So I agree with the we don't know narrative and it can go either way.  Likewise, I've made the point that Haskins isn't as risky because they didn't trade up.  But I do think there is some risk for the organization mainly two fold (though personally I think it was a risk worth taking as to taking a QB)

 

A.  You don't really abandon ship quickly on a first round QB  (Cardinals notwithstanding) so its typically a 3 year or so experiment.  And if he's a bust basically you've wasted 3 years because you aren't going far with poor QB play if it goes down like that.

 

B.  Dan has struck out in so many ways at QB that it has reached comic proportions.  The Browns arguably at one point had the mantle of being the worst team in recent NFL history as to missing at the Qb position.  Considering the Browns nailed it last year finally -- if Haskins ends up a bust then I think the Redskins would hold the crown as the most inept franchise this century and beyond at the Qb position. ESPN 30-30 show worthy.   And fans already have their pitchforks out at Dan and Bruce.  Haskins busting would add major fuel to the fire -- and the backdrop that Haskins might have been Dan's guy (whether true or not that narrative is out there) will twist that knife. 

 

Yet, I think you got to do it.  No guts no glory. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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14 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

@Skinsinparadise who would you rather we had taken at 15?

 

I can't speak for SIP but my preference was to trade down and get draft capitol for next year.  Still could have got Sweat later; we drafted him at 26.  I think next year's crop of QB's is better than this years.  Based primarily on a wider body of work. 

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5 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

I can't speak for SIP but my preference was to trade down and get draft capitol for next year.  Still could have got Sweat later; we drafted him at 26.  I think next year's crop of QB's is better than this years.  Based primarily on a wider body of work. 

 

Exactly.  Yeah I am in the middle of typing that very point with some detail.  

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Posted (edited)

When have the Giants been smarter than the Redskins?

 

Whatever Haskins is he is our guy now I hope they are intelligent and patient with him.  If his prior experience and demonstrated skill set is as limited as Cooley suggests the Skins should have him sit a year and get him comfortable with NFL WCO.  I don't want this guy thrown to the wolves unprepared to the make the reads and work through his progressions.  We have a couple of proven NFL QBs so I think they should let Case Keenum start with McCoy backing him up while they develop Haskins.  Next season after a year of working to learn the system is soon enough to try Haskins after he's had an opportunity to digest all the things he needs to learn.

 

 

Edited by Veryoldschool
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8 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

I can't speak for SIP but my preference was to trade down and get draft capitol for next year.  Still could have got Sweat later; we drafted him at 26.  I think next year's crop of QB's is better than this years.  Based primarily on a wider body of work. 

 

You cant always trade down though, as the Raiders proved this year. Who would you have picked at 15?

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

You cant always trade down though, as the Raiders proved this year. Who would you have picked at 15?

 

I agree, there has to be a trading partner.  I think they said their board had Sweat ranked up there at 15.  Given no other choice I'd have kept Sweat.  Then you'd have the 2nd round picks this year and next.  Also, less competition for 2020 QB's.

 

That didn't happen and now the Redskins have to make the best of it.  Hopefully they will be smart about handling the QB situation; for a change.

Edited by ThomasRoane
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

@Skinsinparadise who would you rather we had taken at 15?

 

I actually had on the draft thread my top 3 desires

 

1.  Hockenson if he fell albeit I didn't think he would

2.  Sweat or Burns.  Loved both.  I've said I would take Sweat over Burns if his medicals checked out.

3.  Devin Bush if he fell but I didn't think he would.

 

Considering how the draft went, I would have traded down.  I didn't love any of the QBs aside from Murray though have obvious durability concerns about him.  I was at obnoxious levels against Daniel Jones.  I was a yo yo on Haskins at first liking him and then going sour on him close to the draft the more closely I watched him.  If I had to pick one after Murray it would have been Drew Lock.  I said Lock is a boom-bust prospect but I loved his upside the most.  I wish Haskins could move in the pocket like Lock.  My issue with Lock though is he's so inconsistent.

 

The reason why I wanted to trade down in part was the sweet spot for receiver and TE was arguably the 2nd round-early 3rd round range.  Ditto OG.  So go get another pick if you could.   Deebo Samuel.  Cody Ford (surprised he dropped that far).  Irv Smith, Jace Sternberger. Arcega-Whiteside, Parris Campbell.   The fact that they could have maybe traded down and ended up with Sweat anyway -- wow.     And as much as i like this draft, the fact that they came up with nothing at TE from arguably one of the richest drafts for TEs that I can recall -is probably my #1 disappointment. 

 

Count me among the people that do believe that Haskins wasn't Jay's #1 choice at QB.  There are too many reporters converging with similar variations of  the same story including Keim who is very cautious at putting something out controversial.  But I don't care enough to argue about it.  Also, count me among the people that believe that Jay is into making it work anyway and excited about the challenge.   So I feel the same way.   That wasn't who I would have taken.  But heck I am not a scout.   I do think there is something to Bruce's narrative about having all these ex-QBs in house to help Haskins so hopefully that all helps. 

 

But yeah for me I am immune to the hype.  Here's draft geek X or QB X or whomever selling Haskins -- that all means nothing to me.  I am not saying eveybody should act the same.  To each their own on that front.   But for me I've been burned enough on buying in that I am too jaded to go that route again.  I was beyond stoked in 2012 to see RG3 as an example.  

 

Just about every young Qb or old we've acquired came with lots of off season hype.  And I can go on and on about the praise.  I recall Strahan saying he's been on the other side of Jason Campbell so trust him he's a franchise QB.  Gibbs was blown away with Campbell's professionalism and arm.  RG3 was can't miss according to Bill Polian among others.  McNabb would bring the leadership and charisma that Campbell lacked.  Heath Shuler was called by a scout as crazy talented and would be Norv's next Troy Aikman. 

 

Just about every QB move had buzz.  I know the rap of the draft geeks that love Haskins.  But for me I got to see it play out.  I thought it was funny to see Elliott Harrison give the Redskins a low rating on NFL Network's power ranking and back that by going over some of their QB mishaps over the years and more or less saying he's not going to trust that organization to get the QB position right until he sees it happen.  I am in the same place.  And it's not that i am pessimistic either.  I am just agnostic.  Where I feel let's see how it plays out.   Like I've been saying based on the law of averages you'd figure they are due for finally getting this position right considering how many times they've screwed it up in so many different ways.

38 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

When have the Giants been smarter than the Redskins?

 

Whatever Haskins is he is our guy now I hope they are intelligent and patient with him.  If his prior experience and demonstrated skill set is a limited as Cooley suggests the Skins should have him sit a year and get him comfortable with NFL WCO.  We have a couple of proven NFL QBs so I think they should let Case Keenum start with McCoy backing him up while they develop Haskins.  Next season after a year of working to learn the system is soon enough to try Haskins after he's had an opportunity to digest all the things he needs to learn.

 

 

 

They haven't been in recent years but by and large they've been a better run organization by far during Dan's tenure.  I am assuming you are referring to their take on Haskins.  Yeah I don't care about it either.  My point is concerns about Haskins' footwork isn't some odd out of left field concern.  There are plenty of others echoing the same. Does that mean he will fail?  Nope.  But it's according to some the red flag to address. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I actually had on the draft thread my top 3 desires

 

1.  Hockenson if he fell albeit I didn't think he would

2.  Sweat or Burns.  Loved both.  I've said I would take Sweat over Burns if his medicals checked out.

3.  Devin Bush if he fell but I didn't think he would.

 

Considering how the draft went, I would have traded down.  I didn't love any of the QBs aside from Murray.  I was at obnoxious levels against Daniel Jones.  I was a yo yo on Haskins at first liking him and then going sour on him close to the draft the more closely I watched him.  If I had to pick one after Murray it would have been Drew Lock.  I said Lock is a boom-bust prospect but I loved his upside the most.  I wish Haskins could move in the pocket like Lock.  My issue with Lock though is he's so inconsistent.

 

Thanks for the thorough response. I just wanted to focus on this point. 

 

As I mentioned earlier, trading down is sometimes easier said than done, as everyone just saw with the Raiders.  So, considering we ended up with one of your top choices in the first anyway (Sweat), I’d count that as a win.  I know you probably would rather we had taken him at 15 and kept our draft capital for next year, but it’s hard to complain when we got a potential franchise QB so cheaply. 

 

I haven’t been active on the draft thread at all (or on the site in general) this year due to a much busier schedule, but I definitely wanted us to take a shot on a QB this draft without trading up for one. I also wanted us to somehow end up with a top edge rusher as well, so they accomplished everything I badly wanted in round 1. 

 

I know you would rather have had us select Lock, but I personally think Haskins was the correct choice. I agree with you about his lack of quick feet in the pocket, but that to me is something that is pretty far down on the list of what I look for in a franchise QB:

-Accuracy

-Decision making

-Arm strength 

-Ability to effectively read pre- and post-snap coverages 

-Leadership 

-Poise in big moments

-Anticipation 

-Maneuverability within the pocket

-Mobility when the play breaks down

 

Haskins checks all of those boxes except for the last two, which I can live with as long as he and the coaches continue to develop the mental side of his game to compensate (similar to P Manning and Rivers).  That’s the key here. If he is given the time to learn to effectively read NFL level defenses, I believe the sky is the limit with this kid. My issue is that I don’t think he’ll be given that time, will develop bad habits, and will never fully develop into what he could be (I obviously hope I’m proven wrong). However, that is likely going to be the case with any first round QB we select as long as Snyder is the owner, so I would rather take our shot now and see how it pans out, especially given how dire our QB situation was before the draft. 

Edited by HTTRDynasty
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29 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Thanks for the thorough response. I just wanted to focus on this point. 

 

As I mentioned earlier, trading down is sometimes easier said than done, as everyone just saw with the Raiders.  So, considering we ended up with one of your top choices in the first anyway (Sweat), I’d count that as a win.  I know you probably would rather we had taken him at 15 and kept our draft capital for next year, but it’s hard to complain when we got a potential franchise QB so cheaply. 

 

This may be a little off-topic, but i was thinking that it's quite possible if we do somehow end up with a bad record this season we could potentially just trade down next year if there is a suitor. With the bigger QB class of next season we could see teams trying to grab one of the top QBs and if we already have ours (potentially) we could end up with a second in the end. I doubt the front office is that forward thinking, but in the end it could still be a possibility. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

This is why I brought up Payne. People were so sure he couldn't pass rush, but he did in the championship game and did his rookie year. 

 

I think Payne was a very different situation. IMO the worries about Payne's pass rushing ability (which was one of my major concerns about him) were founded on lack of production more than anything else. As you noted pretty much the only time he had actually produced as far as sacks and pass rushing was in a couple of games in one season. I don't think that's an unfounded worry when you're talking about a 1st round pick. That's like me saying that I want a certain Safety in round 1 and to convince you I tell you that he's not only excellent in the box in run support but is also a ball hawk with plenty of coverage ability (basically what you'd be expecting out of a 1st round Safety). But then you look up his stats and find that throughout his whole 3 year college career he's has a grand total of 2 interceptions and 3 passes defended. You'd probably be a bit skeptical. 

 

Haskins is sort of the opposite...he has the gaudy stats but once you watch his film carefully there are some issues that stand out such as poor/slow footwork, only ever having played behind an elite OL, and a having a bunch of track stars at WR which may have inflated his stats because of tons of short throws taken for big time gains and TDs. Add to that the fact that he only has one year of experience and it makes me worry about him being thrown to the wolves too soon.

 

If by the end of training camp and preseason Jay and the coaching staff truly believe that Haskins is ready then I'm all for him going out there and playing. My worry is that all of the reporting about Haskins being Dan and Bruce's guy and not really Jay's may be true, which means Jay may not feel Haskins is ready but he could get pressured to start him by Dan and Bruce (Dan especially). If that happens then I think it could wind up being a disaster. Like every other time Dan has made QB decisions. 

Edited by mistertim
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

As I mentioned earlier, trading down is sometimes easier said than done, as everyone just saw with the Raiders.  So, considering we ended up with one of your top choices in the first anyway (Sweat), I’d count that as a win.  

 

Sure, I've made the same point you made if not here on another thread.  I am not complaining about the draft, I've praised it to death.   

 

They took a lot of players I touted and researched.  Haskins isn't my guy.  But what do I know, I am not a scout.  I've got concerns about him that are shared by some others -- and my point is I am not just throwing those concerns out the window because I am basking in the hype.  I've been there and done that as to basking in the hype and ignoring concerns voiced about the Qb's we've acquired.  The concerns in this case about Haskins are my own.    In his defense, every young QB for the most part has concerns.  The question is can you overcome them or are those concerns unfounded.  Will see. 

 

With my own amateur opinion, I saw things that I didn't like that I voiced well before we took Haskins in the draft.    Conversely, I felt pretty familiar with Sweat, Love, Harmon, McLaurin and I liked them all before the draft, too.  So I liked those picks and most of the others, too.  That doesn't make me right or wrong.  That remains to be seen.   But what's the fun if you are going to watch 6 games or so of certain players to just throw that opinion out the window based on whether we take the player or not.    But I am hoping for ALL our players to be great regardless of what I thought about them before the draft and that goes double for Haskins.  So i am hoping your rosier view of him turns 100% accurate.

 

I obviously don't grade players for a living.  So my ego isn't invested in whether i get it right or wrong.  In the past, I've gotten some ones right and got some ones wrong, too.  When I don't love a draft pick or FA they take, I am still rooting to be wrong and for that player to kick butt.  The Redskins winning gives me much more joy than nailing a review of a prospect right.   I want all our players to be All Pro studs.

 

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I haven’t been active on the draft thread at all (or on the site in general) this year due to a much busier schedule, but I definitely wanted us to take a shot on a QB this draft without trading up for one. I also wanted us to somehow end up with a top edge rusher as well, so they accomplished everything I badly wanted in round 1. 

 

 

I wanted an edge rusher badly.  As for QB I didn't care because I was willing to wait to 2020 where in theory at least its looking like a rich QB draft.  But again, no crying from me about Haskins.  I am jazzed to see if it works.  Having a QB brings hope.  The national TV shows have gone from barely giving the Redskins a whit of attention to talking about them non stop -- especially with the Daniel Jones narrative being interlinked some.  That's fun for me.

 

  The ESPN college station last week reran a chunk of Haskins' games, I recorded them.  I'll rewatch and maybe I'll have a different take.   But again I don't hate the Haskins pick.  The one I would have hated is Daniel Jones and I've documented why way before he became a national punch line.  As for an opinion, I've stuck my neck much harder on Jones than Haskins.  Haskins to me is similar to Lock in one sense which is I see them both as boom or bust prospects.  I don't see much "boom" in Jones.  I think he can be a marginal starter but I don't see much upside.  I could be wrong about him, too.  but hopefully I am right about Jones. 😀

 

 

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I know you would rather have had us select Lock, but I personally think Haskins was the correct choice. er, so I would rather take our shot now and see how it pans out, especially given how dire our QB situation was before the draft. 

 

I liked Lock's upside better than Haskins.  But I wasn't pushing for Lock either.  My take on that was if they have to take a QB then Lock.  But Lock to me has bust potential, too.  I just liked his tools better than Haskins.  Will see.  It's just an opinion.  Scouts have said judging college QBs and projecting them to the pros is the hardest thing for them to figure it out. And they get it wrong a lot after careful research.  So again what do I know.  I am just a fan posting an opinion having some fun.   But I don't even take my own opinion on prospects that seriously -- its just fun for me that's all.    My point is hype from draft geeks for our QB selections doesn't move me anymore -- it used to move me but am jaded on that point. 😧

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Interesting convo guys...........

 

I admit that I am not a draft geek in the least, but I have spent a lot (too much) time recently watching as much of Haskins as I could find ( I LOVE the internets!) I may not have seen every play but I am pretty sure I have some of every game.

 

Yeah, he's a rook. He was a sophomore fercrissakes last year. He is young and just figuring out what he's got in a lot of ways. Yeah, he doesn't seem to pay a lot of attention to his footwork and yeah, his resume is one page, so I am trying to parse this and see if I can find anything would might be a valid indicator.

 

I see two things in particular, one technique and one mental. I like his fluid decisive release, when he decides to throw it, it's out. I spend every fall screaming at the TV "Pull the ^&%W!*(^$# trigger! Throw the ball!" He gets it OUT, he isn't winding up from last Thursday, it's gone. I like that a lot! Pressure's coming? Bam! Ball gone. Even when you just have to throw it away, get that thing outta here. The other is that he genuinely seems to learn, watch his progression thru OSU's season and in the beginning, rough, but as the season progresses he smooths out, reading more, making better decisions. You can see him grow through the season. Watch game 1-2 -3- 4, etc, and about halfway thru the season, go rewatch 1 again. Yes, your wives will be muttering behind your back but you'll see a difference. Now, can he learn enough, fast enough, well enough? Who knows? But you'll never get that answer with a clipboard in his hand.

 

I am kinda glad that this thread has sparked so much interest and conversation, because I honestly want to hear some of the savvier guys here give their opinions once they get the chance to dig deeper into this kid.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, SkinsNoles21 said:

We've reached a point where white people are comfortable with black QBs now ... IFFFFF they fit a certain mold. 

 

When they succeed with their mind and their arm, like Jameis Winston or Dwayne Haskins, they don't know how to handle it. 

 

Daniel Jones is trash. 

 

I don't think that's true, or at least I hope that's not true.  I also agree that Daniel Jones is not a good prospect.

 

But, let's not compare Jameis Winston and Dwayne Haskins whatsoever.  I don't want people getting the wrong idea about Haskins.  Haskins hasn't had the off-field problems Winston has, no rape accusations, no theft cases, no standing on top of tables in public and yelling "**** them in the ****".  Haskins, as far as I know, hasn't tried to gag himself with a 'W' on the field while his teammates look at him he's crazy.  Haskins seems smart, dedicated, and a lead by example type.  No part of that seems like Winston.

 

They couldn't have more opposite personalities and character.

 

I think a better comparison would be Jason Campbell.  That said, I think Haskins is more talented than Campbell.

Edited by Alcoholic Zebra
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Haskins >>>>>>>> a 2020 2nd rounder.  When you have a stud QB prospect fall into your lap and you desperately need a QB, you count your blessings and draft him.  You don't wait until next year.

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23 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I mean, Harmon is a less athletic Doctson.  Doctson is a surprisingly good blocker, in college he also caught everything.

 

 

Harmon can run like, 2 routes right now.  Fade and comeback.  He struggles seriously vs press, he can't run any in routes, corners sniff those out immediately.  I love his effort with run blocking and how he fights for 50/50 balls.  He's extremely raw with his route running and not tipping his releases/breaks.  His best route is definitely the come back, that's the only one he's kind of refined.

I respectfully disagree. Doctson is nowhere close to McLaurin as a blocker, not nearly as fast, MUCH less physical, and has NEVER played special teams, much less the highest ranked ST prospect in the draft. Honestly, Terry is the polar opposite (the anti-Doc) of Josh, in my humble opinion. Harmon is just a good receiver, period. Hail

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13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To me Haskins is so different a conversation than Payne.   I get the point is we don't know.  I agree.  Naturally no way to know about any prospect.   That pertains to the positive hype too.  We are all guessing.  The arguments though on the two players and stakes to me are very different though.  

 

Granted my position on Payne wasn't per se what everyone was saying. But I recall at least some were with me that it was simply we wanted Derwin James over him.  It's not exactly like we got egg on our face about that a year later -- after Derwin James was rookie of the year and first team all pro.  I thought Payne had some pass rush in him then and stated so before the season.  I thought good player but not sure about great.

 

The Payne vs James conversation is a different one than what I'm talking about. There was a lot of speculation last year about Payne's overall value because he couldn't pass rush. That's more of what I'm referring to now. I mean, I get the whole draft profile thing where they say "whose game is his most like" and they try to determine the perfect system for the guy. But what we know right now is that OSU redid their offense because he was so much of a better thrower than their previous QBs, and we saw their WRs all have great years partially because of it. 

 

But its like the Payne pick because just like with Payne where we had one or two games with Payne rushing the passer, there wasn't a lot of tape. So people projected to say he couldn't and were proven wrong (at least in his first year). There's not a lot of tape of Haskins scrambling or running for first downs or doing bootlegs, or even throwing under pressure. There's some but people kinda dismiss this evidence and say that the more accurate story is that its not a part of his game. And I just laugh at that because what do we know about the guy. We don't know much about the OSU system, what his reads were, when he was told to "not run", how much he trusted his WRs to get open and thus not forcing him to run. What we know is that he ran a bad 40 time which I think is the least important thing for a QB because I don't want my QB running 40 yards down the field, I want him to take whats there and slide or run out of bounds. 

 

But your thing is about the "meh" offseasons. I think by definition, you take a first round QB and its no longer a "meh" offseason because it has the potential to transform your franchise. And Skins fans recognize this and we're seeing this place as excited as its been since KC left. 

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Posted (edited)

Has anyone heard a Peep out of Haskins?? No Gatorade contracts, Twitter frenzys, motivational slogans made into tee shirts, or even so much as a "hello" ?? It appears that he is already learning to keep his face and random thoughts out of the spotlight, which is a very encouraging sign in this market. I hope he can keep that up and that it is a sign of being a bit more humble than our previous rookie QB.

Edited by bowhunter

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