FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

I don't see anyone propping up Justin Herbert.  I don't see anyone protecting that guy.  I don't see anyone propping up Joe Burrow, either.

 

This seem like a uniquely WFT thing we're talking about here, that we've gotta baby a QB along and wipe his ass until some specific point in time where it's determined that he can take over and prop everyone else up.  This is a dumb narrative that you guys are making to fit Haskins because you feel sorry for him and have some weird attachment to a guy who is highly inaccurate and kind of a prima donna.  

 

You think those guys are finished products and are propping up their teams and leading them to wins after four games?  You think they aren't getting support from their teammates and coaches and have the support and commitment to develop them from their organizations?

 

You're talking out of your ass.  But it explains why you don't have a problem with what this coaching staff has done with our QBs.

[RandyHolt]

If we draft Trevor, will we be told the day after that his mechanics are terrible, and that they had to run a simplified offense for him?

 

Asking for a once bitten 200 times burned run down fan base.

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

If you don't see anyone propping up Herbert or Burrow, you aren't paying attention. You all fight to keep this loser culture, scapegoating and burying our own players, because you think its about the player. It isn't about Haskins. He is just the latest victim. It's about this team being clueless and doing everything wrong.

 

I have had these conversations on Extremeskins nearly 20 years, and I always find myself defending some player the fans /media chose as the problem instead of holding the TEAM accountable. Yall always do the whole "you love this player more than the team" responses also. The culture is still the same.

 

 

 

Uh, no one's holding just Haskins accountable.  The team sucks, the franchise sucks, Dan Snyder sucks.  If you haven't seen people discussing this, then YOU'RE the one not paying attention.

 

But this is the Dwayne Haskins thread, we're here to discuss him.  And he's not good.  If you can admit that he's not good, then I'll concede that you want to have an honest conversation here.  This isn't some conversation about franchise vs. players and which one is to blame...if that's your narrative, then that's a pretty bad narrative.  Everyone here is complicit.

 

But to play your game, I'll side with Ron every time over a guy like Haskins.  Not sorry about it. 

[KDawg]

41 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Because that's what a reasonable team would do, but you're right, we aren't reasonable.

 

36 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

I can point to way more examples than your Rosen one, but whatever. Right now Rivera isn't doing a good job with the team or Haskins. Game management has been terrible. Situational decision making terrible. Discipline terrible. Fundamentals terrible. Rivera isn't coaching well. What has he done outside of the QB position that has been good? He didn't even give the halftime speech that motivated our team in their 1 comeback win.

 

32 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

You're just being a contrarian at this point. Reasonable teams don't hire coaches to work with developmental players on their roster? You are in sync with the thinking of our FO unfortunately.

 

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He absolutely did not give Haskins a real chance.  No earnest attempt at developing a QB prospect ends after four games.  No earnest attempt begins by hedging and immediately acquiring his replacement.  And it's one thing to trash a first round pick a year after you draft him to draft Kyler Murray--especially when you've known him since high school and know exactly how you'll develop him and build the team around him.  It's another thing to trash one for Kyle Allen.

 

This is going to be a longish post, so forgive me. But I hope this post makes you guys see where I'm coming from. You won't agree, you are dug into the Haskins stance just as I am the opposite. I'm not looking to bring peace and harmony. What I am doing with this post is making sure you guys fully understand where I (and I think a LOT of others) are coming from. Despite your post, Irep, I am NOT being contrarian. I have been consistent in my stances across the board.

 

Let's start with square 1.

 

The 2018 season ends and it's obvious we're going to need a quarterback moving forward. The problem was... there weren't any real good options. The draft comes and Snyder believes we have to take a quarterback. It's also obvious that Snyder and Allen don't want Gruden to be their coach moving forward.

 

So they keep him. 

 

The team needed a QB so we reach (yes, reach. It is NORMAL for quarterbacks to be reached on. That is not unique to this franchise or Dan Snyder. If Haskins weren't a QB he'd have been seen as a second or third rounder due to his arm and size and production IN MY OPINION. But, he is, so I figured he'd go in the first). 

 

The front office didn't agree with that selection. 

 

The coaching staff didn't want that selection (mostly due to the fact they knew they were gone and they wanted someone that could help save their jobs). 

 

Haskins was drafted and immediately had that pouty look on his face. People made it a big deal at the time, I did not. He was a 21ish year old guy coming out of college. I didn't love it, but... it's hard when you think you're better than that spot in the draft. I, too, was impressed with his arm talent. I knew nothing of his maturity or leadership. So despite my reservations I bought in a little to the pick and thought that maybe he could develop long term... But I didn't understand why the team would draft him with a coach that was likely on his last legs.

 

So my next thought was: "Huh. Maybe they're going to keep Gruden and see this through." Which was both semi relieving and absolutely terrifying. 

 

Gruden lasted 5 games.

 

He was replaced by a run heavy coach and an offensive line that was not good, but decent. They could open holes for the veteran back and give Haskins some opportunity to throw the ball around. At the time, I wasn't a huge fan of Haskins end of the season games that everyone hypes, but I certainly saw it as a positive step. At this point, some of his little attitude things were starting to bother me as well. Liking IG posts about Gruden being fired, selfies, etc. It's not what I like from a quarterback on a maturity level.

 

Mahomes and Jackson don't handle themselves like that. Baker Mayfield does, though, and I'm not a big fan of his either, but he's not on this team so I don't make a huge deal about it. The crotch grab in college really soured me on him. 

 

The decision was made to hire Rivera.

 

I have ALWAYS... I repeat... ALWAYS... believed that the head coach and GM need to shop for their groceries. We can quibble about the set up, for now I'm okay with it, but I'd have liked Smith to be named the official GM... But I always thought Smith and Rivera needed to be given the space to shop for their own groceries.

 

When the team traded Trent Williams, it was a move that had to happen. He didn't want to be in DC. Bruce Allen's gifted us with that one, and then didn't even get us a first. So, if we're blaming people for that, let's blame Allen. And by proxy, Dan Snyder.

 

When the team traded Dunbar, they probably knew a little bit about the legal stuff... and he had some wild contract demands... that it turns out Darby/Fuller have been pretty good anyways and Moreau is fine. So not giving him a contract wound up being an okay move. Wasn't a great move, but I didn't really care either way on that one.

 

Then the trade for Kyle Allen - At the moment I believed that this trade was an insurance policy trade. They didn't want to sign Cam because if they did, Cam was starting. Cam wouldn't come here to be a backup. A common refrain is, "Haskins could have developed", but I don't believe he could. His body language when Keenum was on the bench getting coached up and he was staring in the distance... Adrian Peterson even commented on the way he was handling himself. 

 

And part of me understands. That guy was handed a giant turd sandwich by being drafted to this mess of an organization. But it's still not doing him any favors. But according to reports (and some believe and some don't... I do because of the body language/commentary/general Haskins demeanor that *I* saw with my own eyes) he wasn't really trying at all as the backup QB. 

 

Kyle Allen was an insurance policy. I agree, Allen was HIS guy. But I don't believe for a single second that Allen was going to win the job. I thought he could have skills, but I thought the job was Haskins' to lose from the beginning because if they weren't going to see what they had in him, they would have signed Cam. There was no competition in camp even though it was said to be one... because Haskins was going to start unless he totally dropped the ball.

 

Again, we get into conjecture at this point. And this is a spot where many of us deviate... But I believe both the reports that Haskins worked hard this offseason AND the ones that he stopped working AS hard (important designation) when he won the job. I think he truly set out to win the job. Lost some weight, worked on some things, developed a relationship with the locker room. And once he was named the starter he got a bit more comfortable. 

 

The video with Thomas Davis in camp stands out. Whether Davis should have approached Haskins or not regarding staring down receivers is fair, but as a young player in the league you cannot see a vet approaching and say, "what do you want?" and then totally shrug him off. That echoes in a locker room. Everything that Haskins has done adds up.

 

His game against Cleveland was VILE. And his other games were poor. Up until Baltimore... where he played mediocre football. Not bad... not good. But his issue in Baltimore was he didn't listen to his coaches. When they tell you to take a shot at the end zone, you do it.

 

Has Turner been great? No. I'm curious why we're not using the backs more in space and getting the ball to McLaurin in space and letting him run. I'm curious about a lot of things. Heck, for Rivera I'm curious about a lot. Why does he insist on naming the starting QB immediately after the game? I wouldn't have used his timeout strategy, but why did he make his job much harder by refusing to call them? There's some issues I have with the way things are going, but I keep in mind one thing: This franchise from top to bottom is a mess. It was NEVER going to turn around this year.

 

So now I'm back to my Haskins point. Haskins didn't listen to coaches (players know that, for the record), bragged about throwing for 300 yards after a big loss and then his agent tweeted about everything. That stuff resonates in a locker room and the guys don't like it.

 

Haskins play wasn't good, but I think his play was enough to give him more time.

 

You don't go from 1st to 3rd or 4th unless you really upset a coaching staff. This is an area I know quite well. Something happened.

 

And when you AREN'T a guy that the current regime drafted and invested in your leash is likely much, much shorter.

 

Haskins was benched and his behavior while being benched was poor. He did nothing to change the narrative in my eyes about him. And who am I? No one. But I can bet the coaching staff saw similar.

 

So he was benched. And Rivera cashed in on his insurance policy. 

 

For what it's worth, to add again, I don't think Allen is the future either. But he could be a backup here for awhile if HE develops and learns to slide. His legs give him a shot as a backup QB in this league.

 

Also for what it's worth, I think Haskins could have served a similar role as a backup QB. In essence, I think we have a dearth of back up talent and no starting talent. And this is something you can absolutely disagree with me on... and I'll debate you on it, but I won't fault anyone for it. Everyone has an opinion.

 

But I believe Dwayne Haskins was given a chance, and would have had a longer pull string (Rivera said Haskins was going to start against the Rams following the Rams game) but Haskins general attitude and behavior rubbed people wrong. And again, he was a Snyder pick that no one on the current regime was on board with. 

 

So, to my TL:DR: Rivera has been far from perfect, but this situation was a mess. I don't believe Haskins has shown the maturity levels to be a franchise level QB, or the play. I also believe that Haskins would fare far better in a different situation far away from Dan Snyder, who drafted him into a position to fail. 

 

But a coach/GM should shop for their own groceries and not be saddled with stale produce. 

 

EDIT: One point I forgot... this team didn't have a backup QB on the roster aside from Alex Smith before Allen was traded for. Yes, he cost a 5th, but he's on a rookie deal. The other options require cap dollars and would have likely supplanted Haskins as well due to his (my opinion) maturity AND play. Allen was the perfect storm to trade for and be a backup from the jump that could start if necessary as a bridge if Haskins failed or got injured.

[Conn]

34 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Because he signed on to Coach and develop him. Why lie to our owner / media / fanbase about working with what we have? You seem to think this was a real competition. To me Allen was Rivera's guy all along and he didn't have the balls to be upfront about his plans.

 

Who cares if he did an end-around on Snyder? This same exact thing happened with Gruden “promising” to make a bad/ruined Griffin work and coveting Cousins the whole time, except this time Rivera actually has the power to do what he wants. Isn’t that what we want, someone who can do what they want despite Snyder? Haskins was already a sunk cost and hiring someone specifically bc they loved Haskins would have been doubling down on a huge gamble made within a crumbling organizational foundation by a know-nothing degenerate. I guarantee you Rivera was honest about Haskins early on, regardless. If you hire him, the team is his, and he isn’t optimistic but he’ll see what Haskins has.

 

Every grumble about Rivera (or this franchise) failing to develop Haskins as if it’s same old, same old misses one key detail—he was not drafted by football people, he was over-drafted by a ****ing moron who knows nothing. Everyone in the NFL knew Snyder was obsessed with Haskins. No one traded in front of us to get him because that was not his value and no one else was enamored with him like Snyder. 
 

People are clinging to their pre-draft evals, which, fine—but all evidence suggests he was not really that great a prospect at all, and if you liked and trusted Rivera six months ago I don’t know why him coming to that reasonable conclusion and having the power to make the call and get his guy in the future is a doomsday scenario. 

[Est.1974]

Haskins got gifted the chance and pissed that opportunity away with an unprofessional attitude. He deserved to be canned.

 

However, I said this last week, Rivera’s overall handing of the team is questionable at best right now. He’s now backed himself into a difficult corner. 

 

Plenty of blame to be shared around here.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I agree with the premise that franchise QB’s are built and developed, not just drafted.  
 

At the same time, not every guy you draft is capable of being developed and built into a franchise QB.  There is a baseline of talent, skills, maturity, leadership, etc. that needs to be met.  You have to determine early on whether a player is worthy of the investment or else you will waste precious time.

 

What escapes me about the Haskins guys here is that they won’t even begin to acknowledge that this could be about more than simply stinking on Sundays.  Any negatives are being automatically dismissed as “slander” as if they can’t possibly be true.  As if Rivera is conspiring to ruin Haskins career just because, well - he feels like it?  I just don’t get it, we aren’t talking about a guy in Rivera with any history of doing guys wrong.

 

I am not sold on the ‘Coach-centric’ model we have going on here.  I am not sold on Scott Turner or even Del Rio.  My ideal

organizational setup is one with a GM that hires his coach, who together select their QB.  So that’s something I share with some of the Haskins crowd.  I just can’t get behind the idea that all is actually swell with Haskins or that he is owed the investment of development given what we have seen and heard.

[IrepDC]

11 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

This seem like a uniquely WFT thing we're talking about here, that we've gotta baby a QB along and wipe his ass until some specific point in time where it's determined that he can take over and prop everyone else up.  This is a dumb narrative that you guys are making to fit Haskins because you feel sorry for him and have some weird attachment to a guy who is highly inaccurate and kind of a prima donna.  

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2019/10/01/no-one-should-really-be-surprised-by-josh-allens-struggles/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robreischel/2020/08/30/jordan-love-is-struggling-but-remember-aaron-rodgers-was-once-a-mess-himself/amp/

 

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/22/chargers-qb-justin-herbert-faces-struggles-against-first-team-defense/

 

http://local12.com/sports/bengals/after-brilliant-first-day-throwing-in-front-of-media-burrow-struggles-a-bit-in-red-zone-cincinnati-nfl-pro-football-joe-zac-burrow-tyler-boyd-sam-hubbard-xavier-sua-filo-michael-jordan

 

Articles about recent developmental QBs struggling, but I'm not comparing the QBs. I'm comparing how the teams handled their QBs struggles. Look at how the narratives of their struggles were portrayed. The teams all had their guys back and made it an intention to rally around, just like I said, their young QBs. Now compare that environment to Washington. How often do we get leaks tearing down our young QBs whether it's Haskins, Cousins, Griffin, Campbell, or Ramsey. Our culture is trash and a big reason we will never develop QB talent here.

[SprintBomb]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'd love to have some competence.  In the coaching staff and in the front office.  We do not have that now.

 

So you are using the last 5 games, with a poor roster,  to judge a coach who has won 2 coach of the year awards and took his team to the Super Bowl. Ok, makes sense I guess.

19 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Yesterday was not competence. Yesterday was one of the worst, one-sided games of football the league has ever seen. There was no development from players or coaches, in fact, it took major steps backwards.

 

I'm not sure I would have let any of the coaches back on the bus after that. 

Nobody would be so dumb as to fire a coaching staff after 5 games. Enough with all the drama. This roster stinks. It's a rebuilding year.

[wit33]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am fine with everything.  I take the Haskins benching as a good culture move not a bad one. 

 

I like some moves, I don't like some others.  I like the first draft.  I like how they left cap room in FA to go for the kill next off season.  I like Rivera as a person.  Overall, positive.   But on the aggregate, I believe you got to give a coach some time for their plan to play out.

When will you allow yourself an opinion on how Ron is doing? I hear you mention year 3?

 

I’m with you that the roster and culture are at the bottom of the league and that takes time and this why I’ve not reached a conclusion, but on and off the field the first 5 weeks of the season have been pretty bad. For me, it isn’t just about Haskins move, but his in game decisions, rationale for decisions and overall attitude towards the media, inconsistent approach to what the team is trying to accomplish this season. 
 

As I mentioned before, some definite confirmation bias going on, due to when hire took place being worried about any man, especially one who’s never had close to this amount of power managing and delegating. Some of what has taken place seems like a dude operating on his own and off cuff (complete conjecture), so that’s concerning for me. 
 

With that said, like you, I’m in it for the long haul and expect to compete next year and not hear excuses all year in the process. I guess this year will be a complete mulligan. Just didn’t think he was wired the way I’ve heard talk and in his approach. 

[IrepDC]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

 

Long post.

The crazy thing is that we agree on 90% of the discussion. We just end up at different conclusions somehow lol.

[megared]

15 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Who cares if he did an end-around on Snyder?  

 

It wasn't just on Snyder...it was on everyone.  And since he was probably empowered with operational control, along with the 5 year, and a massive amount of money, there was no need for him to do it this way.

 

As a GM, I can't distinguish this anything different than BA would've done.

As a Coach, I can't distinguish how this team is any better than a Gruden led team.  

9 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

 

So you are using the last 5 games, with a poor roster,  to judge a coach who has won 2 coach of the year awards and took his team to the Super Bowl. Ok, makes sense I guess.

Nobody would be so dumb as to fire a coaching staff after 5 games. Enough with all the drama. This roster stinks. It's a rebuilding year.

 

The roster stinks because he deferred on improving it.  That was a Ron thing.  Can't blame Dan for that. 

 

We were going to bring Amari Cooper in here for what purpose???

[Andre The Giant]

3 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

 

So you are using the last 5 games, with a poor roster,  to judge a coach who has won 2 coach of the year awards and took his team to the Super Bowl. Ok, makes sense I guess.

Agreed. Changing out the coaching staff and getting the same results tells me one primary thing ... the players aren’t good enough.

 

Our roster is a mess.  Manusky got killed for years on here, but JDR and Rivera aren’t doing any better with the defensive personnel.

 

Offensively, I actually think we’ve looked a little better (yesterday not included).  We haven’t a penalty every other play like last season.

 

Our team needs more talent.  More draft picks.  More quality free agents (which we curiously didn’t sign this past offseason, wondering if cash flow was an issue).

 

We don’t even have a QB around which we’re building.  After 21 years of Snyder ownership, we’re right where we always are.  
 

You don’t want to overreact to one awful game.  But regardless the team has a lot of holes.

[SprintBomb]

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

It wasn't just on Snyder...it was on everyone.  And since he was probably empowered with operational control, along with the 5 year, and a massive amount of money, there was no need for him to do it this way.

 

As a GM, I can't distinguish this anything different than BA would've done.

As a Coach, I can't distinguish how this team is any better than a Gruden led team.  

 

The roster stinks because he deferred on improving it.  That was a Ron thing.  Can't blame Dan for that. 

 

We were going to bring Amari Cooper in here for what purpose???

20 years of poor decisions isnt fixed in one off season. Stop being impatient. We weren't expected to be successful this year so no need to be shocked when we suck.

[Spaceman Spiff]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You think those guys are finished products and are propping up their teams and leading them to wins after four games?  You think they aren't getting support from their teammates and coaches and have the support and commitment to develop them from their organizations?

 

You're talking out of your ass.  But it explains why you don't have a problem with what this coaching staff has done with our QBs.

 

I think they're committed and supported but they're also balling out in a way that Haskins never did.  

 

And let's keep in mind, these guys in LA and Cincinnati are wed to those picks.  Rivera isn't wed to Haskins. You might not like it, but that's true.  Like pointed out above, Kingsbury wasn't wed to Rosen.  What's next from you, the Josh Rosen pity party?

 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I think they're committed and supported but they're also balling out in a way that Haskins never did.  

 

And let's keep in mind, these guys in LA and Cincinnati are wed to those picks.  Rivera isn't wed to Haskins. You might not like it, but that's true.  Like pointed out above, Kingsbury wasn't wed to Rosen.  What's next from you, the Josh Rosen pity party?

 

 

 

If I recall, steve wasn't a Rosen fan. So that's not going to happen if my recollection is accurate.

[Spaceman Spiff]

16 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2019/10/01/no-one-should-really-be-surprised-by-josh-allens-struggles/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robreischel/2020/08/30/jordan-love-is-struggling-but-remember-aaron-rodgers-was-once-a-mess-himself/amp/

 

https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/22/chargers-qb-justin-herbert-faces-struggles-against-first-team-defense/

 

http://local12.com/sports/bengals/after-brilliant-first-day-throwing-in-front-of-media-burrow-struggles-a-bit-in-red-zone-cincinnati-nfl-pro-football-joe-zac-burrow-tyler-boyd-sam-hubbard-xavier-sua-filo-michael-jordan

 

Articles about recent developmental QBs struggling, but I'm not comparing the QBs. I'm comparing how the teams handled their QBs struggles. Look at how the narratives of their struggles were portrayed. The teams all had their guys back and made it an intention to rally around, just like I said, their young QBs. Now compare that environment to Washington. How often do we get leaks tearing down our young QBs whether it's Haskins, Cousins, Griffin, Campbell, or Ramsey. Our culture is trash and a big reason we will never develop QB talent here.

 

Please, it's not like Griffin, Campbell or Ramsey went on to find success elsewhere.  Cousins was solid here, he's been decent in Minnesota. 

 

Anyone think Haskins leaves here and goes on to greatness somewhere else?  What are we betting?

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

 

This is going to be a longish post, so forgive me. But I hope this post makes you guys see where I'm coming from. You won't agree, you are dug into the Haskins stance just as I am the opposite. I'm not looking to bring peace and harmony. What I am doing with this post is making sure you guys fully understand where I (and I think a LOT of others) are coming from. Despite your post, Irep, I am NOT being contrarian. I have been consistent in my stances across the board.

 

Let's start with square 1.

 

The 2018 season ends and it's obvious we're going to need a quarterback moving forward. The problem was... there weren't any real good options. The draft comes and Snyder believes we have to take a quarterback. It's also obvious that Snyder and Allen don't want Gruden to be their coach moving forward.

 

So they keep him. 

 

The team needed a QB so we reach (yes, reach. It is NORMAL for quarterbacks to be reached on. That is not unique to this franchise or Dan Snyder. If Haskins weren't a QB he'd have been seen as a second or third rounder due to his arm and size and production IN MY OPINION. But, he is, so I figured he'd go in the first). 

 

The front office didn't agree with that selection. 

 

The coaching staff didn't want that selection (mostly due to the fact they knew they were gone and they wanted someone that could help save their jobs). 

 

Haskins was drafted and immediately had that pouty look on his face. People made it a big deal at the time, I did not. He was a 21ish year old guy coming out of college. I didn't love it, but... it's hard when you think you're better than that spot in the draft. I, too, was impressed with his arm talent. I knew nothing of his maturity or leadership. So despite my reservations I bought in a little to the pick and thought that maybe he could develop long term... But I didn't understand why the team would draft him with a coach that was likely on his last legs.

 

So my next thought was: "Huh. Maybe they're going to keep Gruden and see this through." Which was both semi relieving and absolutely terrifying. 

 

Gruden lasted 5 games.

 

He was replaced by a run heavy coach and an offensive line that was not good, but decent. They could open holes for the veteran back and give Haskins some opportunity to throw the ball around. At the time, I wasn't a huge fan of Haskins end of the season games that everyone hypes, but I certainly saw it as a positive step. At this point, some of his little attitude things were starting to bother me as well. Liking IG posts about Gruden being fired, selfies, etc. It's not what I like from a quarterback on a maturity level.

 

Mahomes and Jackson don't handle themselves like that. Baker Mayfield does, though, and I'm not a big fan of his either, but he's not on this team so I don't make a huge deal about it. The crotch grab in college really soured me on him. 

 

The decision was made to hire Rivera.

 

I have ALWAYS... I repeat... ALWAYS... believed that the head coach and GM need to shop for their groceries. We can quibble about the set up, for now I'm okay with it, but I'd have liked Smith to be named the official GM... But I always thought Smith and Rivera needed to be given the space to shop for their own groceries.

 

When the team traded Trent Williams, it was a move that had to happen. He didn't want to be in DC. Bruce Allen's gifted us with that one, and then didn't even get us a first. So, if we're blaming people for that, let's blame Allen. And by proxy, Dan Snyder.

 

When the team traded Dunbar, they probably knew a little bit about the legal stuff... and he had some wild contract demands... that it turns out Darby/Fuller have been pretty good anyways and Moreau is fine. So not giving him a contract wound up being an okay move. Wasn't a great move, but I didn't really care either way on that one.

 

Then the trade for Kyle Allen - At the moment I believed that this trade was an insurance policy trade. They didn't want to sign Cam because if they did, Cam was starting. Cam wouldn't come here to be a backup. A common refrain is, "Haskins could have developed", but I don't believe he could. His body language when Keenum was on the bench getting coached up and he was staring in the distance... Adrian Peterson even commented on the way he was handling himself. 

 

And part of me understands. That guy was handed a giant turd sandwich by being drafted to this mess of an organization. But it's still not doing him any favors. But according to reports (and some believe and some don't... I do because of the body language/commentary/general Haskins demeanor that *I* saw with my own eyes) he wasn't really trying at all as the backup QB. 

 

Kyle Allen was an insurance policy. I agree, Allen was HIS guy. But I don't believe for a single second that Allen was going to win the job. I thought he could have skills, but I thought the job was Haskins' to lose from the beginning because if they weren't going to see what they had in him, they would have signed Cam. There was no competition in camp even though it was said to be one... because Haskins was going to start unless he totally dropped the ball.

 

Again, we get into conjecture at this point. And this is a spot where many of us deviate... But I believe both the reports that Haskins worked hard this offseason AND the ones that he stopped working AS hard (important designation) when he won the job. I think he truly set out to win the job. Lost some weight, worked on some things, developed a relationship with the locker room. And once he was named the starter he got a bit more comfortable. 

 

The video with Thomas Davis in camp stands out. Whether Davis should have approached Haskins or not regarding staring down receivers is fair, but as a young player in the league you cannot see a vet approaching and say, "what do you want?" and then totally shrug him off. That echoes in a locker room. Everything that Haskins has done adds up.

 

His game against Cleveland was VILE. And his other games were poor. Up until Baltimore... where he played mediocre football. Not bad... not good. But his issue in Baltimore was he didn't listen to his coaches. When they tell you to take a shot at the end zone, you do it.

 

Has Turner been great? No. I'm curious why we're not using the backs more in space and getting the ball to McLaurin in space and letting him run. I'm curious about a lot of things. Heck, for Rivera I'm curious about a lot. Why does he insist on naming the starting QB immediately after the game? I wouldn't have used his timeout strategy, but why did he make his job much harder by refusing to call them? There's some issues I have with the way things are going, but I keep in mind one thing: This franchise from top to bottom is a mess. It was NEVER going to turn around this year.

 

So now I'm back to my Haskins point. Haskins didn't listen to coaches (players know that, for the record), bragged about throwing for 300 yards after a big loss and then his agent tweeted about everything. That stuff resonates in a locker room and the guys don't like it.

 

Haskins play wasn't good, but I think his play was enough to give him more time.

 

You don't go from 1st to 3rd or 4th unless you really upset a coaching staff. This is an area I know quite well. Something happened.

 

And when you AREN'T a guy that the current regime drafted and invested in your leash is likely much, much shorter.

 

Haskins was benched and his behavior while being benched was poor. He did nothing to change the narrative in my eyes about him. And who am I? No one. But I can bet the coaching staff saw similar.

 

So he was benched. And Rivera cashed in on his insurance policy. 

 

For what it's worth, to add again, I don't think Allen is the future either. But he could be a backup here for awhile if HE develops and learns to slide. His legs give him a shot as a backup QB in this league.

 

Also for what it's worth, I think Haskins could have served a similar role as a backup QB. In essence, I think we have a dearth of back up talent and no starting talent. And this is something you can absolutely disagree with me on... and I'll debate you on it, but I won't fault anyone for it. Everyone has an opinion.

 

But I believe Dwayne Haskins was given a chance, and would have had a longer pull string (Rivera said Haskins was going to start against the Rams following the Rams game) but Haskins general attitude and behavior rubbed people wrong. And again, he was a Snyder pick that no one on the current regime was on board with. 

 

So, to my TL:DR: Rivera has been far from perfect, but this situation was a mess. I don't believe Haskins has shown the maturity levels to be a franchise level QB, or the play. I also believe that Haskins would fare far better in a different situation far away from Dan Snyder, who drafted him into a position to fail. 

 

But a coach/GM should shop for their own groceries and not be saddled with stale produce. 

 

And this was a brilliant post. I agree that a coach/GM should shop for their own guys.  

[veteranskinsfan]

I would call the Cowboys today and see if they will give us something for Haskins.   Maybe they have a quarterback guru who can fix him.   On second thought, Haskins agent is already

calling teams this morning and trying to engineer a trade.

[megared]

2 minutes ago, SprintBomb said:

20 years of poor decisions isnt fixed in one off season. Stop being impatient. We weren't expected to be successful this year so no need to be shocked when we suck.

 

He totally punted on improving the roster via free agency.  He walked Apke out at FS when anyone that watched the guy, knew that was a bad idea.  He traded Trent, and didn't even think about the net loss.  Same thing with Flowers leaving. 

 

But he doesn't bear any blame for us watching noncompetitive football?  What young QB was going to blossom with this group?  

[veteranskinsfan]

Just now, veteranskinsfan said:

I would call the Cowboys today and see if they will give us something for Haskins.   Maybe they have a quarterback guru who can fix him.   On second thought, Haskins agent is already calling teams this morning and trying to engineer a trade.

 

[IrepDC]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Please, it's not like Griffin, Campbell or Ramsey went on to find success elsewhere.  Cousins was solid here, he's been decent in Minnesota. 

 

Anyone think Haskins leaves here and goes on to greatness somewhere else?  What are we betting?

You are blatantly missing the point. Did you not read what I said? I'm not comparing the QBs. I'm comparing how the teams handled their development. We will never know how well any of our guys could have been, because we generally surrounded them with poor coaching and poor talent, while throwing them under the bus when they have struggles. You still want to bury Haskins because that's the priority in our loser culture over winning. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

You are blatantly missing the point. Did you not read what I said? I'm not comparing the QBs. I'm comparing how the teams handled their development. We will never know how well any of our guys could have been, because we generally surrounded them with poor coaching and poor talent, while throwing them under the bus when they have struggles. You still want to bury Haskins because that's the priority in our loser culture over winning. 

None of them outright showed the same VISUAL (not even media reports) disinterest and immaturity as Haskins did here. They all also can use their legs so they aren’t pocket guys like Haskins. 

 

Haskins needs a chance to prove he has it or doesn’t. But that chance shouldn’t be here... not at this juncture. That’s just my opinion. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

You are blatantly missing the point. Did you not read what I said? I'm not comparing the QBs. I'm comparing how the teams handled their development. We will never know how well any of our guys could have been, because we generally surrounded them with poor coaching and poor talent, while throwing them under the bus when they have struggles. You still want to bury Haskins because that's the priority in our loser culture over winning. 

 

No, I want Ron to get his guys and build his team how he sees fit.  That's really where I'm at.

 

But fine, let's do this:  I'll admit that "burying Haskins" is the priority in our loser culture when you admit that Haskins was a bad quarterback who ranks last or near last in a lot of major statistical categories and lacks maturity.  Deal?

[Andre The Giant]

1 minute ago, megared said:

 

He totally punted on improving the roster via free agency.  He walked Apke out at FS when anyone that watched the guy, knew that was a bad idea.  He traded Trent, and didn't even think about the net loss.  Same thing with Flowers leaving. 

 

But he doesn't bear any blame for us watching noncompetitive football?  What young QB was going to blossom with this group?  

Watching the 49ers the last two weeks, Trent doesn’t look good. He got whipped by the Eagles.  As hard as it is to believe, we may have gotten the better end of that trade. A third round pick’s not nothing (plus a fifth).

 

Need a larger sample size, but color me surprised.

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, IrepDC said:

 

These questions are only necessary because we are clueless as a franchise. Also why is your question skewed to say the coach would be mediocre or subpar?

 

Also, plenty of coaches tell their players not to point fingers and step up for each other. We have a bad football team who is using Haskins as their scapegoat. The coach enabled that by throwing the QB under the bus, giving the other bums an excuse. 

 

Because logically if you have to go through multiple people before finding one who will work with your QB then he's likely not a coach who is highly sought after and/or he's not a guy who was top on your list. That or he's a new up and comer who you're taking a chance on. 

 

We know that Dan wanted Rivera from the get-go, so if Rivera wouldn't commit 100% to developing Haskins and said he'd evaluate it as he went, then Dan must have been on board with that. That's the price of getting a highly respected big time name for a HC...he may not think "your guy" is the "the guy" and if he doesn't then he's going to make a change.