FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Cooley was much more brutal on Sheehan's podcast about Haskins.  Essentially called the offense a high school like offense, and that he has very poor mechanics and no touch on any of his throws.  Compared it to a pitcher in baseball who can only throw a fastball.  Also hinted that receivers are going to get tired of that as the season goes on.

 

I've seen some Campbell and Ramsey comparisons by some.  Personally I think they were all different style QBs.  But the one thing that Haskins has in common with Campbell is they both throw a very flat ball and for dudes with strong arms neither were good throwing the deep ball even though they had plenty of arm to do it.   Haskins still had a chance to develop on that front.  I wouldn't bet on him succeeding or failing on that front.  I really don't know.   If I took a bet before the season, I'd go slightly in his favor.  Right now, I'd go slightly against him succeeding.  But I might change my mind again on Sunday. 😀

 

My only hardcore opinion on Haskins is I disagree with the theory that this dude is just overflowing with talent and in turn it would be shocking if he busts.  To me he has plenty of bust potential.  I see him boom-bust.  Sort of where I was with him on the draft thread, I said the dude can make some beauty throws and shows really great flashes but then on other plays "meh".  That's exactly how he looked to me as well in the 2019 camp.  One great practice, 2 "meh" practices and 2 awful practices among the ones i watched.  In sports IMO, players can flash, the great ones are consistent.  Not saying Haskins can't develop on that front.  But there are outfits PFF included who don't think accuracy-footwork is easily fixed.  Ditto throwing with anticiplation. 

 

My opinion on Haskins vacillates.  At the moment, my take is the best thing about him is his competitive drive.  He's a gamer.  I like him when he's fired up and emotional.   He is the type I think that plays well angry.  That's why to me next Sunday is a good test.  If he plays with fire and that translates then its a great sign.  If he plays again like he's been playing then for me at least I am going be concerned.  

[KDawg]

Haskins is a high risk high reward guy, so his bust potential is very high.

 

I’ve seen some people digging on Burrow a bit, using some bad moments to illustrate that people are being more patient with him than Dwayne. Burrow is absolutely a rookie quarterback. He showed it at times the first two games. And he made some big mistakes. 
 

But he is also calm and poised. No moment is too big. I watched a lot of Cincy in week 1 and 2. Week one he was worse, but in the final moments he led the team right down the field and threw the game winning pass that hit AJ Green in the chest... and he dropped it. He also had some major mistakes against the Chargers.

 

Cleveland he was much better.

 

What Burrow shows is the ability to play big in big moments and he stays calm. That is consistent with his college days. No moment has been too big for him. Burrow is low risk. He is going to at least be a good QB. You can see it, despite his cast.

 

Haskins is different. He’s not calm and cool. We’ve seen it time and time again. And that’s not necessarily a knock. Dude gets excited when the team does well. He shows fire. Sometimes too much, but fire. He also showed (last year) that as a backup he just didn’t put in the effort. I don’t think he’s a competitor, a fierce dude who refuses to lose and hates losing. But I think he’s a guy who can really get things going with confidence and knowing his team is behind him. 
 

That’s what makes him high risk and high reward. If he gets support, he can do some special things. But if things aren’t great around him, he has a very high bust potential.

 

It’s too early to fully judge any of these dudes. For instance, I think Minshew has some franchise level potential. Dude is totally carefree at all times. Nothing shakes him. I think Burrow has it. Murray has it. Allen has it. 
 

I don’t think Jones does. I don’t think Haskins does. I don’t think Darnold does. 
 

Mayfield is too up and down.
 

But still, if I sat here and said I can tell you for certain that I’m right on any of these guys I’d be full of ****. 
 

Murray I’m pretty damn confident. But a lot can happen. 
 

Minshew has high “Fool’s Gold” possibilities, but he’s proven time and time again he just gets it done, despite some struggles at times. 
 

Haskins has high, “Just Wait and See” potential.

 

I don’t think Haskins is at all the same as waiting for Campbell or Ramsey. Haskins can ride a hot streak pretty hard I think.

 

Where they are similar is that gun shy/we didn’t protect them aspect. And it’s absolutely true. 
 

I want to see Haskins with an offensive scheme that we thought we would see, some protection, more quick hitters and play action to the left, more slants and in breaking routes, and even though I love how safe he is with the ball, I wouldn’t mind seeing him taking a risk or two. If he can help manufacture points, he gives himself some job security.
 

Until we see that it’s hard to say what Haskins is. 
 

But, at the same time, if he doesn’t show flashes given circumstance, we may be spiting ourselves to keep waiting. It’s a hard line to determine. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Haskins is different. He’s not calm and cool. We’ve seen it time and time again. And that’s not necessarily a knock. Dude gets excited when the team does well. He shows fire. Sometimes too much, but fire. He also showed (last year) that as a backup he just didn’t put in the effort. I don’t think he’s a competitor, a fierce dude who refuses to lose and hates losing. But I think he’s a guy who can really get things going with confidence and knowing his team is behind him. 

 

 

His emotions I agree tend to waver.  I like him when he plays with urgency.  That's what i mean about him playing angry.  I would gather he knows he has something to prove this Sunday.  I am gathering he might start the game with some urgency especially considering the slow starts thus far.  Will see. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

His emotions I agree tend to waver.  I like him when he plays with urgency.  That's what i mean about him playing angry.  I would gather he knows he has something to prove this Sunday.  I am gathering he might start the game with some urgency especially considering the slow starts thus far.  Will see. 

Agree. When he plays with urgency it’s like he turns his brain off. He doesn’t see pressure. He zones in and delivers strikes in places they need to be. 
 

It’s when he has too much thinking time that he starts to falter. 
 

Im hoping the offensive staff finds a plan that works for him. 
 

We are message board posters... as I was told yesterday, none of us know better than anyone on a pro staff. I don’t fully agree with that, but they do know more about what’s happening behind the scenes, so I can’t sit here and judge the gameplans thus far. 
 

But I do wonder the circumstances that have made our staff choose the gameplans that they have.

[@DCGoldPants]

16 hours ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Campbell in his first 7 games 110-207 for 1297 yards, 10 TDs and 6 INTs.

 

Campbell in his second season playing 13 games-250-417 for 2700 yards, 12 TDs and 11 INTs.

 

Haskins last year 119-203, 1365 yards and 7 TDs and 7 INTs. 
 

Haskins so far this year 35-64 for 401 yards 2 TDs and 0 INTs. 

thank you.

 

We know Campbell had better weapons, a better OL, and wasn't the 1st year in a new system. Curious what this comparison looks like at the end of the year. Or 13 games. 

[Tress Is The Way]

20 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

thank you.

 

We know Campbell had better weapons, a better OL, and wasn't the 1st year in a new system. Curious what this comparison looks like at the end of the year. Or 13 games. 

This, and Campbells release was SO very slow compared to Dwayne's. In that comparison it was literally night and day.

 

Also I wanted to bring this article up, with those saying that Hask doesn't have touch or accuracy.. quoting the article: It’s hard to quantify “touch,” but, in terms of throwing ability, this can set Haskins apart from the rest of the QBs in this class. When he has time to set his feet, he is money.

https://medium.com/@thetim_dix/video-analysis-dwayne-haskins-arm-strength-release-time-and-decision-making-measured-14eb82d6ff6e

[Riggo#44]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

It’s Haskins or a new guy from 2021.

 

And, if it's not Fields or Lawrence, maybe even for 2021 as well. I'll defer to yours, @volsmet, @Skinsinparadise, and a few others superior draft knowledge as to who is coming out in the 2022 draft, but if we can get Sewell or another anchor LT in the meantime. Or is Trey Lance that good? I know absolutely nothing about him other than he's the 3rd QB right now coming out.

31 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

thank you.

 

We know Campbell had better weapons, a better OL, and wasn't the 1st year in a new system. Curious what this comparison looks like at the end of the year. Or 13 games. 

 

I said this before, and I'll say it again, Jason Campbell is still winding up to throw his last pass from 6 years ago. Just posting stats tells us next to nothing when comparing players.

[max21]

Minshew is super fun to watch, I think the whole thing with Jax tanking doesn’t make sense to me. They have a good core IMO, even with Fournette, Calais and Ramsey gone. And for whatever reason they seem to get random good receivers in the draft, Chark wasn’t good his first year but that dude is a route running machine now.  People love Minshew in Jacksonville Ive been to mayport tons of times for work and they love the dude. 

4 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

And, if it's not Fields or Lawrence, maybe even for 2021 as well. I'll defer to yours, @volsmet, @Skinsinparadise, and a few others superior draft knowledge as to who is coming out in the 2022 draft, but if we can get Sewell or another anchor LT in the meantime. Or is Trey Lance that good? I know absolutely nothing about him other than he's the 3rd QB right now coming out.

I’m no volsmet or SIP but I’ve looked him up the last few days considering I’ve seen him all over draft boards and he is an interesting prospect, his freshman year he threw 28 tds and zero INTs. Apparently is great with his reads and has the mobility when he gets flushed to make any type of throw. Has speed and illusiveness ran for over 1k yards also, all this in his first year. Only one year of tape on the guy and I think I read a lot of his balls get swatted at the LOS and ball placement is somewhat of an issue also. Almost certainly a top 15 pick. These types of quarterbacks aren’t going to last long now considering everyone wants a Mahomes/Jackson. 

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Jason Campbell started 7 games in his rookie year...just like Haskins.

 

Campbell:

138/257 - 53.7% - 11 TD - 9 INT - 71.4 Passer Rtg - 5.39 AY/A

 

Haskins has looked more promising than Campbell in his first 9 starts.

So he’s  less putrid than another bust? So what? Being crap instead of diarrhea isn’t really promising.  

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, max21 said:

 

I’m no volsmet or SIP but I’ve looked him up the last few days considering I’ve seen him all over draft boards and he is an interesting prospect, his freshman year he threw 28 tds and zero INTs. Apparently is great with his reads and has the mobility when he gets flushed to make any type of throw. Has speed and illusiveness ran for over 1k yards also, all this in his first year. Only one year of tape on the guy and I think I read a lot of his balls get swatted at the LOS and ball placement is somewhat of an issue also. Almost certainly a top 15 pick. These types of quarterbacks aren’t going to last long now considering everyone wants a Mahomes/Jackson. 

 

I've not watched Lance yet but that's a good description above based on what I've read.  It's no secret that a QB with wheels can really make a dent in the NFL, 

[Skinsinparadise]

Lol, I am finally listening to Cooley's take on Haskins' play -- depressing listen.  Like anyone Cooley is at times wrong but he's been right a lot.

 

Among his points:

 

A.  The simplified offense might be predicated on what they think Haskins is capable of now

B.  He mightly struggles moving to the right.  He's miles better going straight back or to the left

C.  He struggled with just about any pass that wasn't short.  Only completed 2 over 10 yards

D.  He missed opportunities when guys were open.  There were plays to be had (in his defense though that's the case for any QB)

E.  Talked about how he threw swing routes on the back hip of the RBs so they had to turn back to catch the ball. On that note, that's what I saw a lot in camp he struggles throwing balls in the flat where he doesn't throw ahead of the receiver to set up YAC. 

F.  He isn't confident throwing the ball down the field

G.  He's not that accurate throwing underneath balls

H.  He got better at the end when the Cards switched to softer coverage but still wasn't that hot

I.  He wasn't pressured a lot but was in the Eagles game.  He sees the accuracy issues whether he's under pressure or not under pressure

J. Needs better touch. 

 

He seemed to suggest that his lack of accuracy throwing down the field will push defenses to crowd the line of scrimmage.  But he thinks he'd still throw the ball down the field more.  He would boot him to the left.  He needs to build his confidence especially going beyond the short passes. 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Haskins is a high risk high reward guy, so his bust potential is very high.

 

I’ve seen some people digging on Burrow a bit, using some bad moments to illustrate that people are being more patient with him than Dwayne. Burrow is absolutely a rookie quarterback. He showed it at times the first two games. And he made some big mistakes. 
 

But he is also calm and poised. No moment is too big. I watched a lot of Cincy in week 1 and 2. Week one he was worse, but in the final moments he led the team right down the field and threw the game winning pass that hit AJ Green in the chest... and he dropped it. He also had some major mistakes against the Chargers.

 

Cleveland he was much better.

 

 

Aj Green caught the game winner, but it was ruled offensive pi. 
 

I posted a moment of struggle in response to someone saying he had no moments like that. He’s been good for a rookie, better than Wentz has been. 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Lol, I am finally listening to Cooley's take on Haskins' play -- depressing listen.  Like anyone Cooley is at times wrong but he's been right a lot.

 

Among his points:

 

A.  The simplified offense might be predicated on what they think Haskins is capable of now

B.  He mightly struggles moving to the right.  He's miles better going straight back or to the left

C.  He struggled with just about any pass that wasn't short.  Only completed 2 over 10 yards

D.  He missed opportunities when guys were open.  There were plays to be had (in his defense though that's the case for any QB)

E.  Talked about how he threw swing routes on the back hip of the RBs so they had to turn back to catch the ball. On that note, that's what I saw a lot in camp he struggles throwing balls in the flat where he doesn't throw ahead of the receiver to set up YAC. 

F.  He isn't confident throwing the ball down the field

G.  He's not that accurate throwing underneath balls

H.  He got better at the end when the Cards switched to softer coverage but still wasn't that hot

I.  He wasn't pressured a lot but was in the Eagles game.  He sees the accuracy issues whether he's under pressure or not under pressure

J. Needs better touch. 

 

He seemed to suggest that his lack of accuracy throwing down the field will push defenses to crowd the line of scrimmage.  But he thinks he'd still throw the ball down the field more.  He would boot him to the left.  He needs to build his confidence especially going beyond the short passes. 

Cooley reads the ES, probably didn’t even watch the game. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

Aj Green caught the game winner, but it was ruled offensive pi. 
 

I posted a moment of struggle in response to someone saying he had no moments like that. He’s been good for a rookie, better than Wentz has been. 

Yeah, it was OPI. I categorized it in my brain as a “wtf” moment. You’re right. 
 

And yes. Better than Wentz for sure.

[volsmet]

Just now, KDawg said:

Yeah, it was OPI. I categorized it in my brain as a “wtf” moment. You’re right. 
 

And yes. Better than Wentz for sure.

Green has had a good bit of rust, he looks like he could have used minicamp.

[Riggo#44]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

And yes. Better than Wentz for sure.

 

On a side note, how completely ****ed are the Eagles? Wentz has been a bag of warmed over dog-**** this year, has a HUGE incoming cap hit, and, as well-noted here, the Eagles are some projected $60m over for next year. Ah, between the Phillies cratering again and the Eagles in a world of hurt, I do love a good scoop of schadenfreude in the morning.

[max21]

10 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Cooley reads the ES, probably didn’t even watch the game. 

Does he really? Lol

[heyholetsgogrant]

4 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

On a side note, how completely ****ed are the Eagles? Wentz has been a bag of warmed over dog-**** this year, has a HUGE incoming cap hit, and, as well-noted here, the Eagles are some projected $60m over for next year. Ah, between the Phillies cratering again and the Eagles in a world of hurt, I do love a good scoop of schadenfreude in the morning.

I’m just glad we put the Stubblefield/Haynesworth days behind us. 

[DJHJR86]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The simplified offense might be predicated on what they think Haskins is capable of now

 

This seems to be something that people are overlooking.

[volsmet]

Just finished the 2nd half and I was very impressed by DH. Defenses play differently up by a bit, but Logan Thomas, McLaurin, Inman & Gibson all dropped huge passes - none were easy, but all need to be made in the nfl. Haskins stayed much more relaxed in the pocket, his feet were really good throughout his progressions, he made some beautiful throws ... one to Gibson down the sideline was absolutely filthy, Gibson just couldn’t hold on, it may have been a catch he could have ripped off for a TD. Haskins was the best player on offense in the 2nd, I am very encouraged by seeing him rebound like that. He was frantic ... then found a way to get back to what he’s been coached up on & he was impressive through most of the 2nd. Encouraging from both he and the guys working with him. 
 

[JSSkinz]

When I listened to Cooley he was throwing a little shade at Ron and the offensive scheme/gameplan, I guess you can only do what your QB allows but it did seem as though Cooley felt the coaches could have called a better game.

 

He didn't really buy Rons response that Dwayne is too hyped up which causes his throwing issues and Cooley's direct quote was "this is a high school playbook".

 

Doesn't that say alot?  We're running that basic of an offense? 

[Riggo#44]

12 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Haskins was the best player on offense in the 2nd, I am very encouraged by seeing him rebound like that. He was frantic ... then found a way to get back to what he’s been coached up on & he was impressive through most of the 2nd. Encouraging from both he and the guys working with him. 

 

He did this against the Eagles too, but failed to build on it against the Cards. So we'll see against the Browns, hopefully he comes out calmer and can get us moving earlier.

[HTTRDynasty]

Hmm... maybe Dwayne isn't in the worst QB situation in the league after Darnold.  At least he doesn't have his own medical staff out to get him.

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Someone has to explain to me how a QB can play 2 years at one of the top programs in the country and in his 2nd season as a professional and still has poor mechanics.  

[volsmet]

 

 

 

 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

But I do wonder the circumstances that have made our staff choose the gameplans that they have.

 

On the plus side the in game adjustments have been positive (and it's been years since we could say that with a straight face). We have been better second half on offense in both games (low bar I know). It seems Rivera is scratching his head a bit re the offensive game planning - reports he met with Scott this week to talk about what we are doing early in games compared to the second halves and how we get off to quicker starts in games. I have not been blown away by Scott so far as an OC - but he's playing with a weak hand.