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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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24 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I don’t see anything as pro Haskins or against, things be what they be.

I fully expect the Jets to quit on Gase--all reports indicate they hate him, and he is a terrible coach. I could see Carolina folding too, especially missing CMC for several weeks. They lost to two decent, not great teams. Maybe it's the Homer in me, but I just feel we'll get better as the season goes on, and we have more winnable games than the others do. I am open to all possibilities...and, unlike Meatloaf, I am willing to do anything for them.

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3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I fully expect the Jets to quit on Gase--all reports indicate they hate him, and he is a terrible coach. I could see Carolina folding too, especially missing CMC for several weeks. They lost to two decent, not great teams. Maybe it's the Homer in me, but I just feel we'll get better as the season goes on, and we have more winnable games than the others do. I am open to all possibilities...and, unlike Meatloaf, I am willing to do anything for them.


I see us at 3-4 wins which would leave us in the hunt. Miami tried to go 0-16 and ended up picking 5th, we should be in contention for a top 3 pick when December rolls around. Our division is putrid, so we may exceed my expectations and rip off a 5-11 or 6-10.

 

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5 minutes ago, volsmet said:


I see us at 3-4 wins which would leave us in the hunt. Miami tried to go 0-16 and ended up picking 5th, we should be in contention for a top 3 pick when December rolls around. Our division is putrid, so we may exceed my expectations and rip off a 5-11 or 6-10.

 

 

I really don't want to finish past 3--that gives us one of Lawrence, Fields, or Sewell. Unless of course Haskins shows major improvement, then that changes things. But I think the goal will be either to replace or protect Haskins.

 

Problem is we have the Giants twice, Eagles again (they could be in total disarray by seasons end), Carolina, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and the Cowboys, under Mike Nolan's expert tutelage on defense, look eminently beatable. That's 8-ish winnable games--to be clear we will NOT win 8 games--but we could **** around and win anywhere from 3-4 to 6. 

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If we beat Cleveland I think we get to 7/8 wins and compete for the East. The Cowboys have a tough schedule. We just need to split the series with them and the battle will be on. If we get smoked by Cleveland, 3-4 wins. I just hope Rivera is the type that isn't playing for draft picks. Nothing more loser mentality and culture than wanting to lose to get high draft picks. 

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14 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

If we beat Cleveland I think we get to 7/8 wins and compete for the East. The Cowboys have a tough schedule. We just need to split the series with them and the battle will be on. If we get smoked by Cleveland, 3-4 wins. I just hope Rivera is the type that isn't playing for draft picks. Nothing more loser mentality and culture than wanting to lose to get high draft picks. 

You're not paying attention. Rivera has said the following (almost exact quotes):

 

We aren't chasing cheap wins this year

Play competent football and wins will follow

Results are secondary to a good process

Trust the process

 

Rivera knows about creating a winning culture.

3 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

2020 is to find out what we have in Haskins.

 

And a bunch of the NFL-leading 35 rookie contracts we have.

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10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

You're not paying attention. Rivera has said the following (almost exact quotes):

 

We aren't chasing cheap wins this year

Play competent football and wins will follow

Results are secondary to a good process

Trust the process

 

Rivera knows about creating a winning culture.

There's no such thing as a cheap win on the player side of football. No player is going to respect a coach who's motivational speech is "go out there and lose". Rivera's going to coach to win. I'd be shocked if he did it differently.

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1 minute ago, NickyJ said:

There's no such thing as a cheap win on the player side of football. No player is going to respect a coach who's motivational speech is "go out there and lose". Rivera's going to coach to win. I'd be shocked if he did it differently.

 

That's almost exactly what he said. So...

 

The players also love him, by all accounts. He went for it on 4th against the Eagles to win, not tie. So, I don't know. I wouldn't say he's mailing it in--but this season has long been about evaluation and establishing a process and mentality over anything else. 

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6 hours ago, Llevron said:

I dont know how to quantify this, and maybe one of you guys can. But I really feel like I like Dwayne because he "thinks" the way I want a QB to think. I heard him say the other day that guys like Murray bring so much to the table with their legs and it helps make things easier for the team. And that while hes trying to add that to his game where he can, his game is in the pocket. I just like that he thinks that way and understands were he has to be successful. Hes like the complete opposite from RG3 in his head. That may not make any sense to any of you though. 

I get what you're saying. I'm glad I'm not the only one who makes the RG3/Haskins comparison. The way you put it is perfect...

 

I take it even further sometimes and this kind of vibes with something I believe @httr2020dynasty said earlier. It's hard to not root for the bamma. It does seem like he fits what most have wanted to see from a QB. Even down to the way he operates both on and off the field. He has to fix his accuracy issues. When our eyes and the numbers match, it shows you that it's something that he's awful at right now.

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What I find interesting to think about...

 

The Texans vs. the Washington Football Team roster construction.

 

The Texans have the better backs with D&D Johnson vs. Gibson and McKissick.


Fuller, Stills, Cooks, Cobb, Coulter vs. McLaurin, Inman, Sims, Simms, Wright. Not close here. Cooks and Fuller are hurt often, but the rest of their receivers are much better than ours. McLaurin is the best of all these guys in my opinion, though.

 

Their line vs. ours - closer than it should be. But the Texans get the edge. Not sure what their PFF scores are but it’s a better unit. Tunsil bring out hurts them, though, for sure. 
 

TE - Thomas vs. Akins - Akins wins.

 

I won’t talk about the D for now... but looking at their roster they’re constructed to be at least decent... But Watson has had trouble ascending with the talent around him. Previous to this year, they even had Nuke.

 

Why do I bring this up? My buddy and I were talking about top 5 QBs... I said: Wilson, Mahomes, Jackson, Rodgers, Murray in that order. He agreed except for swapped Murray out for Watson.

 

I think Watson is definitely near that top 5 but I have NO idea who he is as a quarterback as it pertains to franchise level play. I just don’t know. I mean he’s obviously skilled and can kick ass on the field... but that roster construction is poor, and that hurts him... but it’s still much better than our roster.

 

And here we are expecting a non-mobile (and in my opinion, less talented all in all) quarterback, in his first full year of starts, to elevate this roster to playoff levels. 
 

Questions I’ve asked myself:

 

1) Does a franchise level QB (Lawrence? Lance? Fields?) elevate this talent to wins? If so, how many more than Haskins talent level?
 

2) It’s said you can more easily fix total offensive cast than you can quarterback, so you always draft the franchise guy, but is this true? When has this franchise really had a great supporting cast? We had decent ones, even recently, but nothing great.

 

3) If your biggest need is tackle and the best tackle I’ve seen in a long long time (Sewell) and the best player in this next draft is gone, is drafting one of the top 3 QBs the answer? Or is trading back and filling more holes the answer?

 

Some of these will answer themselves.

 

And we can condense some needs down... meaning you can get a tight end who flexes and fill a tight end need and a slot need (a Brevin Jordan is an example there). 
 

I know my answers, but I definitely have been thinking about this stuff.

 

I’m not as high on Haskins potential as many, but man, I’m also a guy who tries to be fair in my analysis. And this franchise is not currently fair to him. Granted, this is a slapped together team, so we aren’t really at a point where we can say the franchise’s current direction left Dwayne out to dry, but the past regime sure did (we knew that).

 

It’s almost criminal.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

1) Does a franchise level QB (Lawrence? Lance? Fields?) elevate this talent to wins? If so, how many more than Haskins talent level?

I think their mobility helps. But even a great QB maybe eeks out 8 wins, tops. Which puts us in that middling, frustrating range we've been in, where we can't get top talent in the draft, and aren't quite ready to compete

 

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

2) It’s said you can more easily fix total offensive cast than you can quarterback, so you always draft the franchise guy, but is this true? When has this franchise really had a great supporting cast? We had decent ones, even recently, but nothing great.

Several posters will bring up the Cardinals to your first question--but they're really the aberration rather than norm (and Rosen was clearly not interested in being great). Last great supporting cast were the Hogs and the Posse, for Gibbs I.

 

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

3) If your biggest need is tackle and the best tackle I’ve seen in a long long time (Sewell) and the best player in this next draft is gone, is drafting one of the top 3 QBs the answer? Or is trading back and filling more holes the answer?

I think we'll have this answer by the end of the season. If we're sitting 4-6ish, maybe trading back and getting either of the tackles available (Little or Leatherwood, I think are the next two after Sewell from my very limited research), is best. We have several players we haven't seen yet for a variety of reasons, including AGG and Charles. Their development or lack thereof will clarify a lot. I am totally uninterested in wins and loses this year--I want to see improvement from our rookies and 2nd/3rd year players.

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58 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

That's almost exactly what he said. So...

 

The players also love him, by all accounts. He went for it on 4th against the Eagles to win, not tie. So, I don't know. I wouldn't say he's mailing it in--but this season has long been about evaluation and establishing a process and mentality over anything else. 

 

Been a fan for almost 3 decades, I'm just skeptical when we get all lovy dovy with a new coach. It's happened with every coach. I just want to see a different mentality on the field. The game against the Eagles was a great example. Relentless pressure on D, overcoming an offense that was struggling to move the ball and figuring out a way to win. That's the winning culture I want to see from Rivera. Not some process that involves tanking for draft picks. If we have a chance to win the East this year, I want to see him do everything he can to do so. Luckily, I for one don't believe him that it's a process that involves multiple years to win, and instead he's so laser focused on winning that he'll try everything this year to do so. But that's just my hope of him. Making excuses for losing has been done in Washington for as long as I can remember. 

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8 minutes ago, httr2020dynasty said:

Been a fan for almost 3 decades, I'm just skeptical when we get all lovy dovy with a new coach. It's happened with every coach. I just want to see a different mentality on the field. The game against the Eagles was a great example. Relentless pressure on D, overcoming an offense that was struggling to move the ball and figuring out a way to win. That's the winning culture I want to see from Rivera. Not some process that involves tanking for draft picks. If we have a chance to win the East this year, I want to see him do everything he can to do so. Luckily, I for one don't believe him that it's a process that involves multiple years to win, and instead he's so laser focused on winning that he'll try everything this year to do so. But that's just my hope of him. Making excuses for losing has been done in Washington for as long as I can remember. 

 

We've all been fans for a long time. I've been a fan for 40 years, so what?

 

And we don't have a chance to win the East this year, you'll be sorely disappointed if you think differently. Just a heads up.

 

You keep saying you want something different, but immediately revert to the same old short-term-gain/long-term-loss approach we've had every year under Snyder. How many times have we even attempted a legitimate rebuild?

 

Luckily you don't believe him that it's a process...even when he says things like "The offense is a work in progress, we won't begin to see a finished product until 2021?"

 

Again, you're setting yourself up for disappointment--but have at it.

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16 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

We've all been fans for a long time. I've been a fan for 40 years, so what?

 

And we don't have a chance to win the East this year, you'll be sorely disappointed if you think differently. Just a heads up.

 

You keep saying you want something different, but immediately revert to the same old short-term-gain/long-term-loss approach we've had every year under Snyder. How many times have we even attempted a legitimate rebuild?

 

Luckily you don't believe him that it's a process...even when he says things like "The offense is a work in progress, we won't begin to see a finished product until 2021?"

 

Again, you're setting yourself up for disappointment--but have at it.

 

I get what you're saying and most likely we win 3-4 games and get a high draft pick. But that would just be living up to expectations. So what I want to see from Ron is exceeding expectations. Winning 7/8 games with a team Jay would win 3/4 games with. If Ron just wins 3/4 games with a team that any coach would win 3/4 games with, I'll go back to being skeptical that things will ever change in Washington until I see it. What I saw in Philly was a change and I'm hoping there's more of those this year than not. And if there are, then we can compete for the east. Our schedule has plenty of opportunities to exceed expectations of being a 3/4 win team. 

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Average - bad QBs are in contention routinely.

 

Get the best rookie qb contract available & pay grown men to do grown men things on both sides of the ball.
 

Guards, and TEs who can block, are the most undervalued commodities. 

 

Load up on OL

 

Get a #1 WR & a #1 cb

 

Win

 

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Just now, httr2020dynasty said:

 

I get what you're saying and most likely we win 3-4 games and get a high draft pick. But that would just be living up to expectations. So what I want to see from Ron is exceeding expectations. Winning 7/8 games with a team Jay would win 3/4 games with. If Ron just wins 3/4 games with a team that any coach would win 3/4 games with, I'll go back to being skeptical that things will ever change in Washington until I see it. What I saw in Philly was a change and I'm hoping there's more of those this year than not. And if there are, then we can compete for the east. Our schedule has plenty of opportunities to exceed expectations of being a 3/4 win team. 

 

You believe whatever you want to believe. I'll look forward to your rants after losses.

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2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I really don't want to finish past 3--that gives us one of Lawrence, Fields, or Sewell. Unless of course Haskins shows major improvement, then that changes things. But I think the goal will be either to replace or protect Haskins.

 

Problem is we have the Giants twice, Eagles again (they could be in total disarray by seasons end), Carolina, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and the Cowboys, under Mike Nolan's expert tutelage on defense, look eminently beatable. That's 8-ish winnable games--to be clear we will NOT win 8 games--but we could **** around and win anywhere from 3-4 to 6. 

 

The Giants have quietly borderline dominated this series even during their down years.  If I recall they beat us 8 out of the last 12.    

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5 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Average - bad QBs are in contention routinely.

 

Get the best rookie qb contract available & pay grown men to do grown men things on both sides of the ball.
 

Guards, and TEs who can block, are the most undervalued commodities. 

 

Load up on OL

 

Get a #1 WR & a #1 cb

 

Win

 


I would absolutely get a guard. They get drafted so late... and there are always more than a few good ones. 
 

Blocking tight ends can be had almost in any round, you just have to be smart and vigilant.

 

Personally, I never understood drafting a team without first having a line.

 

Its like building a pyramid upside down. 
 

Right now we have a rookie QB contract. Shore up the offensive line first, get a receiving weapon and a blocking tight end. I guarantee that this offense looks much, much different. 

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We definitely need to see more out of Haskins... no doubt he seems to have a goid head in his shoulders and all buy we were sold Haskins based on his arm talent...

 

This arm talent needs to be not only arm strength but also accuracy.  To be honest, I have been most surprised by is inaccurate throws more than anything.

 

If his accuracy doesn’t significantly improve then we might have to move on.

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7 minutes ago, KDawg said:


I would absolutely get a guard. They get drafted so late... and there are always more than a few good ones. 
 

Blocking tight ends can be had almost in any round, you just have to be smart and vigilant.

 

Personally, I never understood drafting a team without first having a line.

 

Its like building a pyramid upside down. 
 

Right now we have a rookie QB contract. Shore up the offensive line first, get a receiving weapon and a blocking tight end. I guarantee that this offense looks much, much different. 


Comfortable QBs play well, uncomfortable QBs do not. Sure there are outliers, but the game is almost entirely predicated upon keeping your guy clean and knocking the shit out of theirs. 
 

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9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@Alcoholic Zebra

 

 

You are off to a good start about the Giants O line.  😀  but will see.  Bears and Steelers have really good D lines.  And they got SF up next but wonder with the SF injuries they won't be as fearsome as before. 

 

 

I can't take full credit for this, as our line is also worse than I thought it'd be.

 

I do think both lines had a rough start to the season and will play a better as the season goes on.  Maybe instead of awful, they'll graduate to below average.  Maybe with some time they'll settle in and play better.

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12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The Giants have quietly borderline dominated this series even during their down years.  If I recall they beat us 8 out of the last 12.    

And their fans are so goddamned annoying. I really want Chase Young to clown-pound Jones repeatedly. If there is one team I really want to kick the ever living crap out of...

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

The Texans have the better backs with D&D Johnson vs. Gibson and McKissick.

 

 

Right now, definitely.  Although maybe in a few games we'll think differently.  Gibson flashes elite talent that's just bananas.  This stat has to regress to the mean, if it doesn't...I can't even begin to say how good he can be.

 

Top RB's for Broken Tackles in the NFL.  Guess which one is Antonio Gibson

Player Att Yds BrkTkl
Att/Br
Player A 52 181 12 4.3
Player B 22 91 10 2.2
Player C 41 156 8 5.1
Player D 29 146 7 4.1
Player E 35 177 6 5.8
Player F 44 185 5 8.8

 

 

I think this has to regress for everyone on this list.  The data for 2018 and 2019 shows the top guys generally break tackles in the 8-10 per attempt range.

 

Player A Josh Jacobs
Player B Antonio Gibson
Player C
Christian McCaffrey
Player D
David Montgomery
Player E Austin Ekeler
Player F Ezekiel Elliott

 

 

Gibson has broken 10 tackles on 22 attempts, the guy is absurdly shifty/explosive.

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Here's every throw from Haskins in Week 2:  2:23 is Really concerning.  That's just plain inaccuracy.  Its an easy throw (doesn't matter because Cam Sims got called for offense PI).  He's great at throwing slants inside the hashes, but defenses will scheme that away and force the outside the numbers throws.  I don't know if he's accurate enough to make those throws.

 

 

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  • TK changed the title to FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State
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