KDawg Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I don’t disagree that Jay will need to go because of this. But where I take some issue is that people jump right to Jay. Stop doing that. Who am I asking to stop doing that? You. Who’s you? Anyone who is letting the FO off the hook by going after Gruden first. Gruden will need to go because he’s a relic in this dysfunction. But the ire is being pushed on him to deflect. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if this wasnt leaked from the top of the Skins FO, either. its a distraction. And people are falling for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, KDawg said: You can't, in any shape or form, blame Gruden for this situation. If Jay was going to be removed, they should have done it. Not draft a PROJECT QUARTERBACK!!!!! and try to get the guy that won't be here next year to sink time and resources into him. This is 100% on the top end of the front office. No way around it. Not Jay. At all. Front office issue. That's the other part of what Hoffman got into. If you don't trust Jay's judgment or see it as awkward to have a development type QB in the building in a win now year for Jay then just fire Jay. Either ride with Jay or don't. Don't ride with him and neuter him all at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don’t disagree that Jay will need to go because of this. But where I take some issue is that people jump right to Jay. its a distraction. And people are falling for it. Not sure if this is directed at me? But if it is, yeah I am not saying at all Jay has to go. I agreed with your point. I am just saying the narrative has become awkward where it almost has to happen. But that narrative has been set in motion by the FO creating the awkward situation in the first place -- not Jay. It's almost a sad self fulfilling prophecy set in motion by them. I don't live and die one way or another with Jay. I disagree with the posts about Jay mishandling Haskins or that he's some type of buffoon. So I am in comparison very pro Jay compared to most. Plus I think the FO being a zoo makes his job very hard. I think it's perfectly in play that the next HC isn't even as good as Jay. I know some here think that's impossible since Jay is a walking nightmare to them. I think some people underestimate how hard it is to coach in an environment like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Outside of speculation we don’t know Kyle’s position on Haskins at #15, which should be weighted the most. You don’t draft a QB of the future, which this team desperately was in need of, based on the win-immediately perspective of a likely lame duck head coach whose team has proven they are nowhere near ready to win now, no matter who they drafted at #1. This team had an injured Colt McCoy and a career journeyman (Keenum) on his 8th team on the roster as of draft day 2019. We could either draft Haskins in the first, or waited on drafting someone later with a backup QB ceiling. Then we still likely reach for Sweat at 15, maybe don’t have a guy like McLaurin fall to us in the 3rd (either because we’ve gone WR in Rd 2, or are drafting our backup QB in the 3rd), and we are left with most likely still having to draft our QB of the future next year in the first. All so Jay can fail again at winning now. No thanks! I think Haskins has the best combination of arm talent, tools, work ethic, physique and mind for the position that we’ve had here in years. I’m glad we have him to develop in a year that would have otherwise been wasted with Jay guiding Colt & Case to 10+ losses with nothing to show for the future. I think this entire narrative being public is incredibly unfair to a rookie who has taken a few quarters of snaps, but it is sooo Redskins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Llevron said: What I like about yall is I cant really tell if you like him or not. Which in my mind means objectivity. I dont walk away from your conversations feeling super good about his prospects as an NFL starter, but I do get a sense of his potential. Dwayne has all of the talent he needs to be a good NFL quarterback. But he plays for a bad organization with a weak coaching staff that has no job security and minimal quality talent around him. It's a bad situation and we'll probably ruin him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 It's going to pretty funny when Jay ends up in Minnesota as the OC -- Zimmer loves him. OR the Bengals fire Taylor after one year and hire Jay as their HC. There were rumors in the offseason that they wanted Jay and were hoping Snyder fired him. Definitely going to be good for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Stormy said: Outside of speculation we don’t know Kyle’s position on Haskins at #15, which should be weighted the most. You don’t draft a QB of the future, which this team desperately was in need of, based on the win-immediately perspective of a likely lame duck head coach whose team has proven they are nowhere near ready to win now, no matter who they drafted at #1. On a podcast am forgetting if was Sheehan or Finlay they said they heard Kyle has Haskins rated as a 2nd rounder, he liked but didn't love Haskins. I don't recall who launched the point but I recall Keim agreeing that he heard the same. Sheehan likes to say he heard about the 2nd ground grade -- and says it was the FO who had it, so he doesn't mention Kyle but I presume it was. Other than that, I haven't heard much about Kyle aside from Russell saying that he heard Kyle and Jay are a faction in the FO that mostly see eye to eye and there is a competing faction to them from time to time. The other thing consistently said is that Jay and everyone is on board with developing Haskins and they like the dude, it will just take time. I'd bet ditto with Kyle. I haven't heard any narrative where someone thought Haskins is a bust. And they've liked the dude once he's walked in the door and his talent, etc. My point is I don't sense from any of the narratives there is any angst or anyone being upset about Haskins. So this is all about predraft stuff. If Jay wasn't totally sold on Haskins then yet likes him now -- I'd presume all is OK at least in theory? But again the drama of the owner might have interjected here is the real plot to the drama unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Hooper said: It's going to pretty funny when Jay ends up in Minnesota as the OC -- Zimmer loves him. OR the Bengals fire Taylor after one year and hire Jay as their HC. There were rumors in the offseason that they wanted Jay and were hoping Snyder fired him. Definitely going to be good for both sides. I was thinking something similar. Kirk's best years were with Jay. Kirk wasn't as good with Shanny or in Minny. Wouldn't shock me if he gets fired in season that's where he goes. There or Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I was thinking something similar. Kirk's best years were with Jay. Kirk wasn't as good with Shanny or in Minny. Wouldn't shock me if he gets fired in season that's where he goes. There or Oakland. Thinking that he ends up with his brother in Oakland like he did back in Tampa. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Jay is gonna just be fine. We might be too -- if Snyder turned to the league's advisory committee for GM candidates. Then picked the one he liked least -- doing the opposite of his instincts, which are always wrong -- and then let that GM hire the head coach. But we all know he won't do that. Even if he "fires" Bruce, he'll keep him around in some capacity and he'll hire someone out of the league who will do whatever they can not to upset Snyder, someone like Louis Riddick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Page 192 and 193 of this thread were the best read I've had on this board in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Hoffman just talked about this, taking his most recent segment and others. Hoffman is becoming my fav reporter. He's conservative like Keim and doesn't like to throw stuff against the wall that he can't verify with multiple sources. Listening to him. A. Jay didn't want Haskins at 15. True. B. Jay and Kyle didn't think he's worthy of the 15th pick. True. But not because they saw him as a bust. C. Jay doesn't like Haskins. False. Jay likes Haskins both as a player and likes him a lot as a dude. He thinks he has a chance but he's not ready yet. Paulsen brought up to Hoffman that it must be tough for Haskins to hear all of this and they felt bad for him. But as Hoffman and others like to say, Jay likes Haskins. This isn't like Shanny and McNabb and name that mismatched pair. The one thing that's mismatched about Jay and Haskins seems to be the win now season context. Jay supposedly likes Haskins (as do the other coaches) a lot as a dude. Yeah, I’ve suspected the above since the draft. My assumption has been that Jay wanted a player that could help him win this season - a TE, a replacement for Moses, a LG, a receiver, a corner (after losing both Fuller and Breeland), etc. If the team wanted to go with a qb*, Jay preferred a pro ready one like Jones. Makes total sense given his situation. Doesn’t at all imply he has a real issue with Haskins himself - as a person or as a qb. Just didn’t feel this was the right situation. And I think we all mostly agree on this point. * for ticket/jersey sales, added fan excitement (or maybe just interest) and/or because they just plain need(ed) to find a franchise qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I was thinking something similar. Kirk's best years were with Jay. Kirk wasn't as good with Shanny or in Minny. Wouldn't shock me if he gets fired in season that's where he goes. There or Oakland. Outside of them not liking one another. Nothing definitive reported, but stated enough times by radio personalities and reporters that it seems like there’s some truth to it. Al Galdi mentioned it recently in an interview and he stated as if it’s a known thing. Neither Finlay or Doc disputed it. Not a big deal either way though. Old news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, skinny21 said: Yeah, I’ve suspected the above since the draft. My assumption has been that Jay wanted a player that could help him win this season - a TE, a replacement for Moses, a LG, a receiver, a corner (after losing both Fuller and Breeland), etc. If the team wanted to go with a qb*, Jay preferred a pro ready one like Jones. Makes total sense given his situation. Doesn’t at all imply he has a real issue with Haskins himself - as a person or as a qb. Just didn’t feel this was the right situation. And I think we all mostly agree on this point. * for ticket/jersey sales, added fan excitement (or maybe just interest) and/or because they just plain need(ed) to find a franchise qb. Yes that's how the story seems to be no matter who tells it. The idea that Jay is cool with Haskins now albeit he didn't want to take him at 15 -- if we follow the whole story at least as its being told. IMO its no big deal on the surface. Jay likes Haskins, etc. The drama though is the owner interjecting if it happened that way. It's like being in an arranged marriage in a culture where arranged marriages aren't typically done. Once the premise is set that it's an arranged marriage the drama is inherent anytime something goes wrong where the point becomes hey you never wanted that person in the first place. Even if you want that person now, you still have the backdrop that you might not because of the circumstances of the arrangement. That's why Dan needs to stay out of this stuff IMO. 7 minutes ago, wit33 said: Outside of them not liking one another. Nothing definitive reported, but stated enough times by radio personalities and reporters that it seems like there’s some truth to it. Al Galdi mentioned it recently in an interview and he stated as if it’s a known thing. Neither Finlay or Doc disputed it. Not a big deal either way though. Old news. Mixed reports on that though. You had Mike Jones saying at the beginning of 2017 that Jay was standing on the table to resign Kirk and Jones doubled down on that in a recent article he wrote. He had company on that point with some other reporters agreeing. At the same time stories surfaced that Jay was sick of the narrative the summer of 2017 and being asked about the contract and went to move on by that time. Sheehan always suspected that Jay and Kirk were different cats. Paulsen thought Kirk and Jay were fine but didn't have the same chemistry as Sean and Kirk did. Knowing a little of Jay and Kirk's personalities I bet they can work with each other again. I do think though the Raiders are the more likely spot though. But I'd put the vikings as a dark horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I really want them to have a few games with Colt to see if hes what Gruden thinks he is. Even though I acknowledge he has nothing to work with on his side of the ball, I want to see what Gruden is so enamored by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Llevron said: I really want them to have a few games with Colt to see if hes what Gruden thinks he is. Even though I acknowledge he has nothing to work with on his side of the ball, I want to see what Gruden is so enamored by. Agreed. If Gruden is going to embark on his Redskins swan song over the next however many weeks, I hope McCoy stays healthy enough that we all get to see Gruden take his best shot with his preferred guy. It'll be like pre-closure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chdream Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Colt McCoy is not a NFL quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, chdream said: Colt McCoy is not a NFL quarterback. Not true He's a NFL backup quarterback. Just not a NFL starting QB. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chdream Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 He is an injury or interception ready to happen. Been the same since he has been in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, chdream said: He is an injury or interception ready to happen. Been the same since he has been in the NFL. Then those of us who want to see Snyder forced to clean house don't have anything to worry about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: Not sure if this is directed at me? It was directed at "you". Meaning people reading it that I described. But to answer your question - no - I don't think it was directed to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, KDawg said: It was directed at "you". Meaning people reading it that I described. But to answer your question - no - I don't think it was directed to you OK it threw me off because my post was close above it. So I responded to play it safe. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said: Not true He's a NFL backup quarterback. Just not a NFL starting QB. 😉 Also not true. He’s starting for the Redskins on Sunday, who are an NFL franchise (even though they might not be able to beat Centerville hs) so by definition Colt is a starting QB in the NFL. Should he be? No. But he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chdream Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Cleaning house is the least Snyder can do. I am starting to think Snyder wants this. Or Bruce and the whole crew would be gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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