FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Veryoldschool]

McCoy is hurt again?  I hope Keenum can come on during the preseason games and at least prove serviceable for the start of the season.  I don't want to suffer through another 2013 when the staff was forced to start Griffin and we were told to consider it a development investment.  That was dreadful and thus far it doesn't look like they are inclined to rush Haskins on the field before he's ready.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

15 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

McCoy is hurt again?

 

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Colt got banged up some in practice I wonder.

 

jay said today that Colt will be ready for the 2nd game, but that was before today's practice.

But I havn't seen anything about Colt getting hurt in today's practice, either.

[JSSkinz]

I was listening to Russell earlier and he said Colt tweaked his leg and walked off the practice field visibly frustrated.

 

Not sure as to the extent of the injury but I think it's becoming clear Colts leg isn't right yet and he may be forcing things because he knows this is his last realistic chance to be a starting QB.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

I am going to get flamed for this but i have to say it.... Not a fan of Colt Mccoy

 

I'd rather have Josh Johnson as my #3 , or wait,  is it #1 ? Then Colt Mccoy....  At least i know Josh Johnson can take a beating and I loved the heart he showed last season.

 

 

Nevermind the Lions signed Johnson yesterday 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I am not convinced at all that Colt or Case gives us the best chance to win games. At all. The kids arm is 10x the threat that either present. Just thinking out loud.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

jay said today that Colt will be ready for the 2nd game, but that was before today's practice.

But I havn't seen anything about Colt getting hurt in today's practice, either.

 

Makes sense I figured Colt would be considered good to go for the 2nd game pre practice considering he practiced but not sure his status after practice.  Frankly, I don't really care.  I am pretty confident that Colt isn't taking this team anywhere -- got plenty of doubts about Keenum, too but maybe there is a small shot that he discovers his 2017 form?    I actually oddly had more interest in the Beck-Rex battle years back than this competition as to the 2 veterans -- I don't know why considering Colt and Case are better than Rex-Beck.  But I have a hard time generating any excitement about Case-Colt.

 

My hope is all riding on Haskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

I've been saying if Haskins is who Riddick and Bucky Brooks thinks he is -- this dude is the next Tom Brady.  They have loved him for months. 

 

 

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've been saying if Haskins is who Riddick and Bucky Brooks thinks he is -- this dude is the next Tom Brady.  They have loved him for months. 

 

 

 

 

Are you sure you’re 50-50 on him lol?? 

 

I’ll take him being the next Big Ben/Boomer/McNair/, the greatest QB of all time (Tommy) is a tough benchmark. 

[Sonny9TD]

4 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I am not convinced at all that Colt or Case gives us the best chance to win games. At all. The kids arm is 10x the threat that either present. Just thinking out loud.

There you are. LOL

[Sonny9TD]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@JSSkinz  I think you are picking on the wrong QB as for pocket presence thought he other one needs to stop fumbling but both have that issue.  😀   And I used to worship RG3 so don't mean to pound on the dude. 😀 Since Kirk is gone then I consider it a failure on that front.  And I know his name can open up a hornets nest.  RG3, too.  Campbell maybe not as much, I guess enough time has past by about him.   Brad Johnson to me wasn't the best QB here by a long shot IMO.  But leaving that point aside, he wasn't anything special IMO.   We've not had that first tier elite QB I think since Sonny.  This team doesn't do QB well for the most part.   Even Theismann IMO was good but not special. 

 

As for Haskins, I've defended him here from some critics for his first game performance.  I liked more than I didn't like.  But I am not going as far as I've seen things that I haven't seen from others.  But that's me.  So to each their own. 

 

Watching most of his Ohio State games, I am not totally at ease that the dude has great pocket presence -- based on a few flashes on Thursday. Or maybe a better way to put it is I have some concerns about Haskins's accuracy when he is pushed out of the pocket versus designed roll outs.  As for his flashes, I talked about that on the draft thread months back which is Haskins had flashes of overcoming his supposed shortcomings.  So it was hard for me to deduce whether that meant its just as it looks which is every now and then he does something well that he can often struggle with or the flashes are a harbinger of mastering this stuff in time.  I don't know.  But yeah as I pointed (among others) out he certainly has some strengths to build off on.   My point is we've seen flashes from all three previous young QBs.  RG3 arguably had an even stronger arm than Haskins.  Campbell had a strong arm, too.  Kirk made a ton of rolling pocket boot type of plays like Haskins first completed pass -- even going way back to his rookie start ironically against Cleveland.

 

To me, the issue with the QBs who failed here hasn't been talent.  And I can go back further on that to Shuler and Ramsey, etc.  The issue IMO has been more about quickly reading defenses and picking them apart like the great QBs in the league routinely do.   Arians gets into a point in his book about grooming QBs saying that he's worked with and seen many talented QBs who have failed.  One key difference he finds between failing and succeeding is their ability to dissect a defense quickly and understand what they are trying to do to them.   And he emphasizes the word "quickly" because he goes if you give just about any QB time they can figure it out.   He goes on that talking to defensive coordinators, they spend their nights figuring out ways to trap QBs by disguising coverage to ultimate force incompletes and picks.  Based on what we saw on Thursday, my take of camp when i was there, the beat guys take of camp -- Haskins still has ways to go on this front.  I've taken it on the chin at different times for having all of our young QB's back.  And I recall the arguments for most of them very well.   I'll likely continue to have Haskins' back, too.   But I am a bit cautious about my optimism this time.  Maybe I've gotten burned too much that I am afraid to fully buy in. 😀  

 

 

Excellent thoughts from someone who saw him at Ohio State. Way too much improvement needed. Big arm is not what makes a QB great. Accuracy after choosing the correct receiver does. A panic draft pick.

[Sonny9TD]

On 8/10/2019 at 7:00 AM, JoggingGod said:

 

 

 

 

 

Stephen A looks as clueless as he is about football.  Hunter Henry and Derrick Johnson? Stick to basketball Stephen A.  You are good at that. I do like Stephen A though.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

Are you sure you’re 50-50 on him lol?? 

 

I’ll take him being the next Big Ben/Boomer/McNair/, the greatest QB of all time (Tommy) is a tough benchmark. 

 

Lol, not sure if you are suggesting I am more negative or positive?  I gather based on your comment you are saying negative.   I think I post much more positive stuff on the dude. I think I am if anything the most likely guy on this thread to post any tweet that pushes Haskins and have done it a lot.  Much more so than anything that slams him.  You should know better than most via Kirk and Alex discussions that I am not afraid to land on an opinion on a QB. 

 

I have been the same on pretty much all the QB's we've had.  I develop an opinion and stick to it.   But yeah on Haskins I am genuinely 50-50.  I feel exactly like that.  It wouldn't shock me if he's a bust and it wouldn't shock me if he's a success.  High ceiling, low floor.  That doesn't mean I am right but that's how I feel. 

 

The Tom Brady comment about Riddick is just having fun with his man crush on Haskins which is epic from the stand point that I'd love for him to be right because if he is then we got a top 5 QB.  I pretty much watched every NFL live broadcast before the draft and the dude was in love with Haskins.  If he's anything near what Riddick or Brooks thinks he is then we'd be set for the next 15 years.  I used Brady to bring the point home because Riddick doesn't just like Haskins, he gushes.   On another thread, I touted that I'd like Riddick to be our GM.  So i am not mocking Riddick.   

 

Like I said I lean positive on ALL of our young QBs because I thought each one deserved time.  I've been more skeptical of the veterans they've brought in.   In order to escape the wilderness, we need to finally find a franchise QB.  I'd take Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan -- QBs like that.  It doesn't have to be a Brees or Brady caliber QB.    

 

I am sure you know that me saying Riddick thinks he's Brady -- doesn't mean that if Haskins is anything less than Brady then he's a bust.  That's absurd.  If the dude is a Rivers clone for example it would be the greatest feat for this franchise in the draft at QB arguable in many decades.  So trust me its not Brady or bust.  That would be crazy.  And I bet everyone here feels the same as for being perfectly happy if he is a really good QB even if he's not the best, etc.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

I wonder if the Redskins coaches knew what they knew now about the other two QBs, perhaps they would have tried to create a simplified version of the offense for Haskins to run and build on over time. It’s way too late now and this is probably the best thing for his short term development. (Disclaimer: This may be just a beat reporter's theory, I haven’t run it by coaches.) But there’s no way anyone thought the QB situation wouldn’t budge more than the few inches from McCoy to Keenum with neither laying claim to the job with any conviction coming out of Richmond.

https://thefandc.radio.com/case-keenum-ahead-redskins-qb-race-end-training-camp

[JSSkinz]

I really hope we see Haskins with the ones, to me he was the most impressive QB on Thursday and I get that he had the picks and maybe they dumbed things down for him but what are we waiting for?

 

When it comes to Haskins negatives I hear a lot about his poor footwork but I heard Hoffman say its already improved but needs much more work. Is it crazy to think he can get that right or improve it enough before the season starts?

 

For the people who like studying these QB's is there that much separation between Keenum and Haskins?  If so can Haskins improve those issues enough before the season starts? 

 

I'm being completely selfish but I really don't want a season full of Keenum, give me some Haskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I really hope we see Haskins with the ones, to me he was the most impressive QB on Thursday and I get that he had the picks and maybe they dumbed things down for him but what are we waiting for?

 

When it comes to Haskins negatives I hear a lot about his poor footwork but I heard Hoffman say its already improved but needs much more work. Is it crazy to think he can get that right or improve it enough before the season starts?

 

For the people who like studying these QB's is there that much separation between Keenum and Haskins?  If so can Haskins improve those issues enough before the season starts? 

 

I'm being completely selfish but I really don't want a season full of Keenum, give me some Haskins.

 

Hoffman also said that Haskins is way behind the other 2 QBs.    The comment from Breer below is more optimistic.  

 

I want to see Haskins this year but I think he might benefit from watching some games first.  I'd rather his success rate chances increase when he plays to build confidence, etc.  Lets say he avoids the first 5 games which look tough and then kick in.

 

But in spirit I agree with what you are saying.  I am not jazzed by Colt or Case.  And I am intrigued as heck to see Haskins. 

 

 

 

 

[desertbeagle85]

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/national-media-reacts-dwayne-haskins-debut-and-they-what-they-saw

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

2 hours ago, Sonny9TD said:

There you are. LOL

 

There You are..LOL. Case has you convinced on victory’s? I’m not sold. And if he doesn’t, then yes the sooner Haskins gets in there and works on his issues, the sooner we’ll know if he’s the answer.

[clskinsfan]

I'll tell you. I have been in favor of playing Haskins from the beginning. Lets say Case can get us to 7-9 or 8-8. Does it really matter if we go 4-12 or 5-11 instead? You miss the playoffs you miss the playoffs. I want to see Haskins in the next 2 games just to make sure he can handle the pressure and not get messed up from it. But he has BY FAR the best arm, poise and most importantly smarts in camp. What do we really lose by starting him?

[RandyHolt]

Colt tweaked something.... great.   I think Jay needs to rethink trying to make Colt a starter. He is the perfect vet backup for Jay. Collins is to Al Saunders, as Colt is to Gruden.

[NoCalMike]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I'll tell you. I have been in favor of playing Haskins from the beginning. Lets say Case can get us to 7-9 or 8-8. Does it really matter if we go 4-12 or 5-11 instead? You miss the playoffs you miss the playoffs. I want to see Haskins in the next 2 games just to make sure he can handle the pressure and not get messed up from it. But he has BY FAR the best arm, poise and most importantly smarts in camp. What do we really lose by starting him?

 

Regardless of how unrealistic it may be, I think you still go into every season with the lineup you feel gives you the best chance to win now.  It won't take long before that builds momentum or crashes.  Remember last season the team was 6-3 under Alex Smith and it seemed like half the fan base still wanted him to be benched.  Then he gets injured and we see what kind of QB play comes after and how the team overall takes a nosedive (not all on the QB of course).

 

For me, I have seen enough of Colt McCoy.  Even healthy, we know what he has to offer and it isn't starting QB material. To me he is just another Grossman, a veteran that sits on the depth chart, becoming an expert in the offense in the event they have to come into the game out of nowhere, maybe start a game or two, however you absolutely do not want them being the starter outright.

 

Keenum intrigues me because in some ways he resembles Alex Smith. He might not wow people with his stats, but he tries to be efficient and not lose games for the team.  Also capable of making big throws.  The downside is we saw the difference in his play when being on a stacked team (Vikings) and a not so good team (Broncos).  Who is the real Keenum, somewhere in-between?

 

Haskins starting from Day 1.....behind *this* O-line scares me.  I think we would see some marvelous plays which would turn us into junkies for more, but would it translate into wins?  I am not sure. It might be too soon.

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Regardless of how unrealistic it may be, I think you still go into every season with the lineup you feel gives you the best chance to win now.  It won't take long before that builds momentum or crashes.  Remember last season the team was 6-3 under Alex Smith and it seemed like half the fan base still wanted him to be benched.  Then he gets injured and we see what kind of QB play comes after and how the team overall takes a nosedive (not all on the QB of course).

 

For me, I have seen enough of Colt McCoy.  Even healthy, we know what he has to offer and it isn't starting QB material. To me he is just another Grossman, a veteran that sits on the depth chart, becoming an expert in the offense in the event they have to come into the game out of nowhere, maybe start a game or two, however you absolutely do not want them being the starter outright.

 

Keenum intrigues me because in some ways he resembles Alex Smith. He might not wow people with his stats, but he tries to be efficient and not lose games for the team.  Also capable of making big throws.  The downside is we saw the difference in his play when being on a stacked team (Vikings) and a not so good team (Broncos).  Who is the real Keenum, somewhere in-between?

 

Haskins starting from Day 1.....behind *this* O-line scares me.  I think we would see some marvelous plays which would turn us into junkies for more, but would it translate into wins?  I am not sure. It might be too soon.

 

 

 

This is a really good post and sums up some of my thoughts as well. We know what Colt is. He’s not going to last and even if he does he’s going to chuck it to the other team enough times to cough games up. And I think we know Haskins isn’t quite ready, even while displaying some really exciting potential. If all goes well with Keenum and he’s somewhere in the middle of his Viking self and Bronco self, he’s definitely capable of leading the Skins to 9-10 wins. Keenum had Emmanuel Sanders Philip Lindsay a rookie Courtland Sutton and literally nobody else last year. We don’t have anyone as good as Sanders (yet) but I’m pretty confident that this is a more talented skills group than what he had last year. Potentially much better if McLaurin lives up to his billing. I mean check out their receiving statistics, it was brutal. Demaryius Thomas deteriorating over night probably had something to do with that and Fant will be a nice chess piece going forward for them. 

 

Long winded way of saying that there’s some intrigue with Case as you said. He is 2 years removed from an NFC Championship game. I think he’s better than what he showed last year, and is under a much stronger and more established offensive coaching staff now with what should be a strong run game with AP Guice and CT. And I’m sure the team/Jay feel a similar way, this team is talented enough to be a playoff team with even steady QB play. We saw it last year with Smith. And once you’re in anything can happen. Philthy was 4-6 and got absolutely throttled by New Orleans, just as we did. I mean they got totally dominated. They end up making the playoffs and give New Orleans a run for their money in the POs. All of this talk about were gonna suck with Keenum anyways so why not just suck a little harder with Haskins is loser talk. Start the best man for the job. And if that’s Haskins so be it. But don’t rush him in there just to see what he has as soon as possible. That’s just not a very bright idea. We all witnessed the other night the guy has tools. He also seems to have the work ethic and desire to be great, which is so so important. We can know what we have by watching him in practice and watching him develop. Play him when he’s ready, don’t be Dan Snyder and impulsively rush him into something to put more Butts in seats weeks 1-8 or decide the season is over before it starts so why the hell not. 

[wit33]

Keenum does not protect the football and is the antithesis of Alex Smith. This is primarily why I preferred McCoy, as he doesn’t take care of the football either, but has years in the system, so a slight chance exists for him to have some success (potentially more than Keenum). I’d prefer a game manager with current skill guys in the team. 

 

[JaxJoe]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

So, basically Albert Breer is telling us the starting QB battle is between Colt and Case; that Haskins is so far behind that Breer (or Gruden) doesn’t think in two weeks that Haskins can catch up. I’m cool with that, shows patience from all parties. But if I were coach, I’d at least throw Haskins in with the 1’s to compare Apples to Apples. Politically, it would prudent as well to show management and the fans that all the QBs got a fair shot. I can only guess that it’s the knowledge of the playbook that is holding Haskins back this far. 

[Going Commando]

I'm an early and vocal Haskins stan, but you cannot give him the starting job this season if he doesn't earn it in camp or practice.  Doing so would be a huge **** you to the rest of the players and coaching staff on the team because it'd be a signal that we're sacrificing a year of their careers for a kid we think is more important than them.  It's unfair and it'd damage the culture of competitiveness of the team.  it's not good for Haskins either to just give him the job.  A sense of entitlement must be earned.

 

It's also not the best way to develop him from a football perspective either.  We're fortunate to have two solid vet QB options that we can play this year.  A redshirt season is usually to the benefit of a QB that is fortunate enough to come into a situation where he can sit--look at Mahomes.  Hell, look at Haskins's career at Ohio State.  And quite frankly, our offense is pretty bad this season.  There is only so much you can learn from being trapped in third and longs facing defenses playing with leads all game.  And the risk of developing bad habits would be very real.

[Going Commando]

If they start Haskins when it's clear he hasn't earned the job yet then it would be a sign that the team cares more about selling tickets and jerseys than developing him properly, winning games, and building a good culture of competitiveness.