FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Probos]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

After reading ES, I thought for sure he would look awful when I finally got to see the game.

 

i thought he looked pretty damn good to my eyes. Good poise and awareness. Rocket arm. Plays aggressive. I think he gets the mental side down and turns out to be really good for us.

 

"Pretty damn good".  Wow,...ok.  He looked like a rookie that has a lot to learn.  He does have a live arm, and should be good if coached and brought along properly.  But, I think in any scenario this year, if he has to play it's not good.  Skins best bet for any kind of success is keeping Colt upright -- and that's gonna be hard to do.

[mistertim]

58 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

I had been saying the same thing as you before I got to watch him handle adversity.  After watching DH respond to the two picks I've changed my mind.  I don't think Haskins is a (mentally) fragile player.  I think his mental toughness is probably his greatest strength.   Whether we believe in him or not doesn't seem to matter.  The kid believes in himself and I really like that.  Now, I still think the team should roll with Colt first and see what happens.  But as soon as he gets hurt (I hope not though because I like Colt) or the season seems to be going south then I think the team should roll out DHJR and see what happens.  

 

I don't disagree at all when it comes to handling adversity; I've liked how he's handled himself. I was more referring to having way too much stuff on his plate to the point where it isn't really about adversity as much as it about only being able to do so many things at once while still progressing.

 

Every rookie QB has to adjust to the speed of the NFL game, a new playbook that's likely more complex than what they're used to, and dealing with more complex NFL defenses. But on top of all that, Haskins also has to deal with having very limited starting experience in college, having some (IMO) pretty serious flaws in his footwork and fundamentals, and getting used to dealing with pass rush pressure (which he didn't get much of at OSU). Add to that the fact that we have a very suspect OL, and it could just be so much stuff at once that he wouldn't have a chance to progress much while juggling it all if he's thrown to the wolves too soon. 

 

I could be completely wrong though (it's certainly happened before). He might get the nod and go out and progress super fast and benefit greatly from being thrown out there. That would definitely be a pleasant surprise if it happens.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I could be completely wrong though (it's certainly happened before). He might get the nod and go out and progress super fast and benefit greatly from being thrown out there. That would definitely be a pleasant surprise if it happens.

Cooley on the Redskins Talk Pod asked a very direct question: do we think the Skins are a playoff team with colt or Case?  Everybody (JP, Mitch and Pete) all said some version of Not really.

 

Cooley then said it’s time for Haskins to go play and learn.  I think with the caveat he needs to be able to protect himself.  Peyton threw 20+ INTs his rookie year.  

 

If your QB gets his confidence busted because he’s learning, you’ve got the wrong guy. 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

With all the "slow" talk, I was surprised how well he moved. Looked fast "enough" for RPO. Just as fast as KC was in *my* eye. 1st series looked good. The fumble didn't help his confidence...almost looked like he thought he had to do it by himself after that..took chances he didn't have to..rushed a bit. the 2nd INT was an example of that..wanted it too bad. Has to learn to pick his spots better. Nice arm and velocity. Can't wait to see him again.

[ThomasRoane]

10 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

With all the "slow" talk, I was surprised how well he moved. Looked fast "enough" for RPO. Just as fast as KC was in *my* eye. 1st series looked good. The fumble didn't help his confidence...almost looked like he thought he had to do it by himself after that..took chances he didn't have to..rushed a bit. the 2nd INT was an example of that..wanted it too bad. Has to learn to pick his spots better. Nice arm and velocity. Can't wait to see him again.

 

I believe he's lost a few pounds.  He looks trimmer to me.  Probably got tired of hearing about his baby fat lol. 

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, Probos said:

 

"Pretty damn good".  Wow,...ok.  He looked like a rookie that has a lot to learn.  He does have a live arm, and should be good if coached and brought along properly.  But, I think in any scenario this year, if he has to play it's not good.  Skins best bet for any kind of success is keeping Colt upright -- and that's gonna be hard to do.

 

That doesn't make sense, sorry.  The fact is that DH improves, historically, with playing time.  The scenario where the Skins are 0-6 to 2-4 sets the stage for DH to have had enough time playing against the Skins starting Defense for over 2 months.  He'll get comfortable and gain confidence.  They'll be a routine where he prepares as the starter and as the Skins get further away from the Jay Gruden experiment, they can turn the page.  That is prime situation for getting DH the playing time he absolutely needs, in a season that would otherwise be a complete loss.  

[TheShredder]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Cooley on the Redskins Talk Pod asked a very direct question: do we think the Skins are a playoff team with colt or Case?  Everybody (JP, Mitch and Pete) all said some version of Not really.

 

Cooley then said it’s time for Haskins to go play and learn.  I think with the caveat he needs to be able to protect himself.  Peyton threw 20+ INTs his rookie year.  

 

If your QB gets his confidence busted because he’s learning, you’ve got the wrong guy. 

 

I view that a reasonable.  There's some value in starting the perceived best roster you can field to start the 2019.  You've got guys on that defense who truly are ready to win now and a HC who is essentially going into a must win season that starts in the gauntlet and lasts for half a season.  It would make sense to allow DH to get all the reps with the scout team vs the Skins starting D and work on all the negative things that have been viewable on tape from the preseason.  After the NE game it would be reasonable to expect that the Skins are close if not in fact winless. That's the time to unload Jay Gruden, bring in O'Connell and start the transition into the future. 

[joeken24]

21 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Kyler Murray was nearly perfect tonight as was Daniel Jones. Haskins needs to step up and play like he’s a first round pick and NFL player and not a bust. 

After one preseason game? You trippin like that?

[JoggingGod]

18 hours ago, Sonny9TD said:

Neither am I Haskins could have been had in the 2nd round if if got him at all. Waste of a 15 pick, We basically spent a 1st and next year's 2nd on Haskins because Sweat should have been the 15 pick. Haskins was a reach and to think Danny had to be talked off the edge of trading up. Could have got a better QB later in the draft. Haskins had wide open receivers at Ohio State and JT Barrett put up basically the same numbers with less. Haskins was not the QB we needed. Once i heard he was missing targets at Ohio State who were wide open i knew all he had was a strong arm with little touch. Guaranteed he doesn't make a successful career. A very poor man's Jameis Winston. He had NFL ready recievers to throw to who were always wide open at Ohio State. Even JT Barrett enjoyed success and is a better QB than Haskins truth be told. Should have taken the Auburn QB in the 4th but the Patriots knew what the deal was.

 

18 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Fant, Savage or one of the 3 Oline to go in the next few picks would have been better.

 

[benskins26]

I was excited by what I saw. The errors were simply an experience/nervousness. Coaching and experience can fix it. The mobility I saw far exceeded my expectations. I was thinking I was gonna see Jason Candle (remember that thread?) again. He was as mobile as KC. The arm strength was really impressive. I’m more enthused now than I was before. I hope to see growth by end of preseason.

 

that being said, CK can win games. I loved his drives. 

[Commander Wolffe]

37 minutes ago, benskins26 said:

I was excited by what I saw. The errors were simply an experience/nervousness. Coaching and experience can fix it. The mobility I saw far exceeded my expectations. I was thinking I was gonna see Jason Candle (remember that thread?) again. He was as mobile as KC. The arm strength was really impressive. I’m more enthused now than I was before. I hope to see growth by end of preseason.

 

that being said, CK can win games. I loved his drives. 

I agree 1000%

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Cooley on the Redskins Talk Pod asked a very direct question: do we think the Skins are a playoff team with colt or Case?  Everybody (JP, Mitch and Pete) all said some version of Not really.

 

Cooley then said it’s time for Haskins to go play and learn.  I think with the caveat he needs to be able to protect himself.  Peyton threw 20+ INTs his rookie year.  

 

If your QB gets his confidence busted because he’s learning, you’ve got the wrong guy. 

 

I listened to the same podcast.  I am coming around to agreeing with this.  I definitely agree that they aren't a playoff team with Colt or Keenum unless Keenum rediscovers his 2017 form. 

 

I still don't think I'd start him right away.  He seems like a bright kid and I think he'd benefit from more practice time, watching QB's prepare during the week, watching the speed of the game via the sideline -- Alex Smith tutoring, etc.   But I'd throw him in during the season at some point.   He seems to have a good head on his shoulders.  I think he can recover from initial setbacks.    The key thing for me is the O line can't be a train wreck.  I do have some fear if he gets battered like mad that he could develop the David Carr or as some say here the Patrick Ramsey syndrome where they start seeing ghosts when it comes to pressure.

 

I just listened to Cooley on Sheehan's podcast, his take:

 

Liked his first throw (rolling to the right), tight window throw.  He thought the two picks were bad picks but he loved him getting that experience and learning from that stuff.  Made some good throws.  Made some bad choices but likes him having that learning experience.  

 

If was funny considering Sheehan in the past wasn't much of a Haskins guy but he was egging on Cooley to say nice things about his performance.   Cooley's main point on Haskins though kept coming back to is get the dude experience and he will benefit from it.  I actually agree with Sheehan, I wasn't blown away by Haskins performance but I saw some decent potential in that performance.    More good than bad IMO. 

 

[skinzplay]

I hope like hell he's learning from Cavanaugh and Smith, and not Gruden and Rattay. You don't invest a 1st-rounder in a kid at this position and then entrust his development to Gruden and to someone who has never coached in the NFL and sure as hell didn't develop anybody at LA Tech. He only had that job because he'd been a QB there; legacy hire.

[JoggingGod]

Haskins is gonna have KOC too next year but as HC

 

[Probos]

15 hours ago, TheShredder said:

 

That doesn't make sense, sorry.  The fact is that DH improves, historically, with playing time.  The scenario where the Skins are 0-6 to 2-4 sets the stage for DH to have had enough time playing against the Skins starting Defense for over 2 months.  He'll get comfortable and gain confidence.  They'll be a routine where he prepares as the starter and as the Skins get further away from the Jay Gruden experiment, they can turn the page.  That is prime situation for getting DH the playing time he absolutely needs, in a season that would otherwise be a complete loss.  

 

It doesn't have to "make sense" to you, it's an opinion.  DH improves "historically"?  He's started one season in college.  I don't think one season of football counts as a true "historical" measurement. 

 

If the Skins are 0-6 or maybe won 2 games out of 6 (which is very likely), a coach on the hot seat and a questionable at best offensive line is just not a good scenario for this kid to be put into -- in my opinion.  DH is raw, very raw, but he definitely has the talent to be a very good QB in the league.  Skins are far from being a playoff contending team -- keep Colt upright as long as possible, hopefully the whole season.  Maybe they can get 8 wins (probably not) and Gruden gets another shot, another draft and DH gets his shot as a starter for 2020.  That's my perfect scenario.  I'm sure I'll be wrong.

[skinzplay]

It's a whole different ballgame for Manning, coming from a pro-style offense, to take his lumps and learn early in live action as a rookie. He had Tom Moore and Bruce Arians coaching him; later Jim Caldwell. Haskins has Tim Rattay, whom nobody in the NFL would hire. He hasn't been on a single staff list presented by any HC candidates at all. None. Same for O'Connell, whose hires were all last-minute reaches by HCs who were grasping for staff because nobody wanted to jump on what was predicted to be a sinking ship. Proved to be true in Cleveland (where he was QB coach under Pettine), and out in Frisco, where he was allegedly QB coach under Chip Kelly, but was most certainly not performing that role on the staff. Both of those hires remain head-scratchers to me. For some reason, some guys on the board here seem enthused about O'Connell. I don't think he should've ever been hired. And if Gruden is canned during the season, I hope that Callahan become interim HC and then gets rid of some of the dead weight on the offensive staff.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

It's a whole different ballgame for Manning, coming from a pro-style offense, to take his lumps and learn early in live action as a rookie. He had Tom Moore and Bruce Arians coaching him; later Jim Caldwell. Haskins has Tim Rattay, whom nobody in the NFL would hire. He hasn't been on a single staff list presented by any HC candidates at all. None. Same for O'Connell, whose hires were all last-minute reaches by HCs who were grasping for staff because nobody wanted to jump on what was predicted to be a sinking ship. Proved to be true in Cleveland (where he was QB coach under Pettine), and out in Frisco, where he was allegedly QB coach under Chip Kelly, but was most certainly not performing that role on the staff. Both of those hires remain head-scratchers to me. For some reason, some guys on the board here seem enthused about O'Connell. I don't think he should've ever been hired. And if Gruden is canned during the season, I hope that Callahan become interim HC and then gets rid of some of the dead weight on the offensive staff.

 

If I am reading your posts right?  Thumbs down to Jay, Rattay and O'Connell?  Thumbs up to Callahan and Cavanaugh? 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

If we drafted Haskins because we needed him to be the best looking rookie QB in the first preseason game of the year, then we are one million percent screwed as a team, as a franchise, and as a fan base.

[skinzplay]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I am reading your posts right?  Thumbs down to Jay, Rattay and O'Connell?  Thumbs up to Callahan and Cavanaugh? 

 

Roger that. Cavanaugh has never been allowed to do what he does best. Callahan would be a much better HC for this squad that Gruden; it would be obvious in less than 5 minutes to every player and assistant coach on the team. Does it go down as Callahan interim HC, Ray Horton DC........We'll see. Of course all of that means little or not enough success/demonstration of progress early in the season. As a lifelong fan, I sure as hell don't want to see that for our team. I want to annihilate every stinkin' team on the schedule, especially those dummies down in Texas and those little green men up I-95. But having faith in Gruden is not an easy proposition.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Both of those hires remain head-scratchers to me. For some reason, some guys on the board here seem enthused about O'Connell. I don't think he should've ever been hired. 

 

O'Connell isn't though some off beat choice that some on the board just happened to like.  The whole he's the next McVay stuff was started by a player from another team.  I would agree that he's a wildcard that we have much to learn about as to whether his reputation is justified -- but his reputation and pedigree IMO is clearly intriguing.

 

I just read a long article from the Athletic about O'Connell and to say that there were dudes around the league gushing about him, it would be an understatement.  I am reluctant to post Kirk's comments about O'Connell on that article because bringing him up in any regard is a mega hot potato and brings scorn by some that I am not in the mood to deal with.  But even for those who think Kirk is the worst Qb on earth, I notice some still respect his love for McVay.  Reading his comments about O'Connell were so over the top effusive that it rivaled what he said in the past about McVay.  

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/Article/Kevin-OConnell-next-highly-touted-head-coaching-prospect-132376231/

In fact, Redskins head coach Jay Gruden said in March that he promoted O'Connell just to make sure that he didn't lose him to another NFL team.

"Kevin is obviously a very talented coach and I think people understand that," said Gruden. "We were getting some nibbles out there to try to get him interviewed for coordinator, I wanted to make sure we kept him here, so I put him in the coordinator role."

I'm surprised by how much I hear about how highly-regarded O'Connell is around the league. Every NFL team is looking for the next offensive genius or innovator, and O'Connell is that guy to many teams. When I talked to Redskins tight end Vernon Davis in February, he said he loved that O'Connell was promoted, and that he had a very bright future ahead of him.

 

"It's a great opportunity for him, he's a great person, he's also a great coach," said Davis. "He's very in tune to what he's doing and what he needs to do. I knew that watching him all last year being the quarterbacks coach. Stepping in, a young guy who is very passionate about the game, 33 years old and he has a great future ahead of him. It's very, very exciting to see him take over that responsibility as offensive coordinator because it's well-deserved. He's going to do extremely well."

Expect O'Connell to either be the next head coach of the Redskins or the next head coach somewhere else — and it could happen as soon as next year. During an appearance on The John Keim report, ESPN NFL analyst Louis Riddick, who served as the director of pro personnel for the Redskins from 2005-07, said that O'Connell would be a guy he would pursue if he were to return to the NFL as a general manager.

 

"Kevin O'Connell is one of those guys who I know I myself, if I'm ever to get back in the league and be a GM, that's a guy people continually put on my radar and talk about as, 'You have to watch this young man, you have to keep an eye on him,'" said Riddick. "He needs to be the main voice in Dwayne Haskins' ear, he's the one that they need to let really guide him through the early part of his career and the early part of his rookie season until he eventually becomes a head coach somewhere, because people think he's special."

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

 

Roger that. Cavanaugh has never been allowed to do what he does best. 

 

He's been a QB coach and then elevated to offensive-assistant coordinator -- what does he do best that he's been limited to showcase?

 

12 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

 

Callahan would be a much better HC for this squad that Gruden; it would be obvious in less than 5 minutes to every player and assistant coach on the team. Does it go down as Callahan interim HC, Ray Horton DC........We'll see. Of course all of that means little or not enough success/demonstration of progress early in the season. As a lifelong fan, I sure as hell don't want to see that for our team. I want to annihilate every stinkin' team on the schedule, especially those dummies down in Texas and those little green men up I-95. But having faith in Gruden is not an easy proposition.

 

If they let go of Gruden, Callahan would be a yawn hire to me.  He had 2 years of HC experience -- 15 plus years ago, one of those 2 years was a really good season, the other a really bad season.  No one has hired him for HC since and he's 63. 

 

If they are going in house, I'd take my chances with the hire you don't like, O'Connell.   Going with young offensive minds seems like the current wave.  Plus the dude has some personality.  Guys who played the game like Ryan Clark have said personality and people skills are in his mind the key attribute for a HC.  

 

But to each their own.  

 

 

on another note

[skinzplay]

Riddick ain't fooling anybody. Whenever the FO wants to get its perspective out there, they pull the ol' Louis Riddick ventriloquist act. He's very reliable.

 

I do hope the kid does well with his coaching career. Nothing he had done to date warrants the role he has now assumed. It's great that Vernon spoke highly of him. What's he supposed to say? "Who.....O'Connell.....he ain't ***". Guys are going to be complimentary. In 2017, on some of those lists that were being developed, his name wasn't on a single one of them for QB coach or OC -- not for McVay, McDermott, not for Lynn, not for Marrone (who NEEDED a QB coach and ended up hire Scott Malinovich?), not even for Vance Joseph. I have my doubts that Gruden actually wanted to hire him. Just a hunch.

 

On the Cavanaugh question, he's never been the actual OC in Washington, in terms of what that role typically entails. Gruden has still been essentially his own OC. As for Callahan, I was mentioning him as interim HC for the remainder of the season if Gruden is shown the door before season's end. It really won't matter one way or another if Rasputin is still team president and gets to choose the next coach.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I don't remember reading your thoughts on Haskins' performance Thursday (although that doesn't mean I didn't read them, just that my memory is ****ed lately lol). What were your thoughts on his play? I have no problem with what I saw and was encouraged by a number of plays. His footwork was questionable at times, though, to put it mildly lol...and I'm of the mind that the passes that were intercepted are the types of passes young QBs often learn from if they have their mental **** together.

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Riddick ain't fooling anybody. Whenever the FO wants to get its perspective out there, they pull the ol' Louis Riddick ventriloquist act. He's very reliable.

 

I do hope the kid does well with his coaching career. Nothing he had done to date warrants the role he has now assumed. It's great that Vernon spoke highly of him. What's he supposed to say? "Who.....O'Connell.....he ain't ***". Guys are going to be complimentary. In 2017, on some of those lists that were being developed, his name wasn't on a single one of them for QB coach or OC -- not for McVay, McDermott, not for Lynn, not for Marrone (who NEEDED a QB coach and ended up hire Scott Malinovich?), not even for Vance Joseph. I have my doubts that Gruden actually wanted to hire him. Just a hunch.

 

On the Cavanaugh question, he's never been the actual OC in Washington, in terms of what that role typically entails. Gruden has still been essentially his own OC. As for Callahan, I was mentioning him as interim HC for the remainder of the season if Gruden is shown the door before season's end. It really won't matter one way or another if Rasputin is still team president and gets to choose the next coach.

 

For a history major like me, I can appreciate the Rasputin reference and I agree its apt. 😀

 

There are plenty who have commented on O'Connell some of which was put on this thread awhile back that goes beyond Vernon and Reddick.  But I don't care enough to debate it because there is no sample size to judge O'Connell yet so right now it's about trusting his resume and or word of mouth or not trusting it.  There is no right or wrongs that I can see.

 

As for Cavanaugh then I assume you mean the whole offense needs to be entrusted to him for him to showcase what he has.  He will be 63 this season.  The last time he was a true offensive coordinator in the NFL was in Baltimore about 15 years ago.  His last three teams ranked in points:  31, 21, 26.  It was better further back -- not so much in points but not bad on that front but in yards.  But we are going way back.    Some of Jay's critics among other things here seem to think the NFL has passed him by as for implementing college concepts, etc -- Callahan would be really taking this back old school.  I get the infatuation with some with O'Connell because at least in theory he seems to part of the new wave of offenses -- up tempo, RPO, air raid, etc. 

 

I can't link this article because it's from a paid account.