So...Went to a Trump Rally today...

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Agree with this wholeheartedly and not trying to say it was.  In work in DC, I'm sure you know people that seem extremely intelligent but still cant being themselves to vote for a Democrat.  I literally work for the federal government a couple blocks from the Capitol and work with a couple of them.  I'm nervous about these polls, they said ones for Hillary were too much in her favor as well, and I'm not sure if they really changed how they do them.  The outcome should be obvious, but 2016 was supposed to be, too.

 

That's fair.  I'm nervous about polling only because the stakes are so high, I don't think the methodologies are wrong.  The polls in 2016 gave Trump a 30% chance of winning.  Those aren't great odds, but it's also wrong to round a 30% chance down to no chance at winning.    

 

Maybe I'm being naive, but I think that at least 50% of voters see Trump's antics and corruption and general unfitness for what they are, and think we can do better.  I'm just citing to polling to show that I'm not out on a limb.  

[PleaseBlitz]

In any event, @Renegade7 props to you for going to this thing and keeping your eyes and mind open. 

[NoCalMike]

Prejudice to me is a much more vague term. We all carry certain prejudices that might not even be based on race necessarily. It is more about pre-judging something or someone in the moment or situation. It certainly can be based on race or gender or whatever, but not always. A lot of times it has to do with the limited knowledge we might have about a person or group of people.   Someone might assume people attending a heavy metal concert are all Satan worshipers, not based on hate, but based on their limited interaction with folks who enjoy that genre of music.  Prejudice is not good, but it can be remedied a lot easier than full-on racism & bigotry. 

 

As far as Trump supporters being racist? Of course I don't think everyone who voted for him is a racist, however with all the evidence we have from Trump's own mouth by now, if you vote for him you are at least saying you are okay with his racism. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

That's fair.  I'm nervous about polling only because the stakes are so high, I don't think the methodologies are wrong.  The polls in 2016 gave Trump a 30% chance of winning.  Those aren't great odds, but it's also wrong to round a 30% chance down to no chance at winning.    

 

My main concern with the polls is whether or not they will translate to actual votes.  It isn't enough to yell and scream that you hate Trump and want him gone, everyone better actually go vote.  In 2016 too many people sat at home, either due to lack of enthusiasm or maybe disbelief that Trump could ever actually win so they felt they didn't need to vote.  I think this time around everyone knows the actual threat of a 2nd term for Trump and they will go vote.  I hope.

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, Chachie said:

 

 

An african-american friend once said this to me and I thought it was pretty poignant. 

 

"Everyone is prejudice. Not everyone is racist. Racist sounds like an adjective but it's really a verb."

 

Couldnt agree more.  I dont believe world without prejudice or even racism is possible when we have different races and maybe need to redefine what a post-racial world would look like.  Nearly every species on the planet is prejudice, some for survival sake, our species reasoning is jus typical more complex then that.

 

To me, post-racial world is one where we finally admit we're all prejudice, some definitely more then others, jus agree not to make laws that maliciously target races to protect the races from themselves. 

 

What I dont want to see in this country in the future is what some other ones do when one race finally gets control of government from another and punishes the hell out of them.  Reverse racism is still racism.

 

I think this is actually going to be a lot harder then we want it to be because of our biology

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I don’t think many people are going to be able to hold their nose and vote trump again this time around though.

 

How many are just totally apathetic towards the condition of our society/country and won't bother to vote at all?

 

That's kind of where I'm at.  Someone wants to address health insurance or climate change or whatever, cool.  But what about fixing the ~40% of our country who thinks Trump ain't so bad.  And don't even get me started on the swamp that has taken over most every part of our government.  And a large percentage don't really care about that.

 

So why vote for Trump or Warren or Biden or anyone else?  Sure MAYBE they will fix a single issue if they're lucky.  But I don't see anything fixing our society at all.  We are doomed as a nation.  But it was a fun ride.

 

enjoy the rest of your day

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

My main concern with the polls is whether or not they will translate to actual votes.  It isn't enough to yell and scream that you hate Trump and want him gone, everyone better actually go vote.  In 2016 too many people sat at home, either due to lack of enthusiasm or maybe disbelief that Trump could ever actually win so they felt they didn't need to vote.  I think this time around everyone knows the actual threat of a 2nd term for Trump and they will go vote.  I hope.

 

Agree.  I think one of the reasons people stayed home was a variation of "they are both the same" / "how bad could Trump be?"  Hopefully people have learned their lesson (the hard way). 

15 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So why vote for Trump or Warren or Biden or anyone else?  Sure MAYBE they will fix a single issue if they're lucky.  But I don't see anything fixing our society at all.  We are doomed as a nation.  But it was a fun ride.

 

Your standards are too high.    I'm settling for "won't actively destroy the foundations of our democracy" and "has a soul."

[Springfield]

This thread doesn’t inspire much hope for Dems winning next year.

[Spaceman Spiff]

35 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

How many are just totally apathetic towards the condition of our society/country and won't bother to vote at all?

 

That's kind of where I'm at.  Someone wants to address health insurance or climate change or whatever, cool.  But what about fixing the ~40% of our country who thinks Trump ain't so bad.  And don't even get me started on the swamp that has taken over most every part of our government.  And a large percentage don't really care about that.

 

So why vote for Trump or Warren or Biden or anyone else?  Sure MAYBE they will fix a single issue if they're lucky.  But I don't see anything fixing our society at all.  We are doomed as a nation.  But it was a fun ride.

 

enjoy the rest of your day

 

Right here.

 

I personally think people put way too much faith into politicians these days.  People seem to think that these candidates can fix anything/everything that ails us.  I'm not sure why I should have faith in any of them.  And voting for someone else because they're anyone but Trump isn't good enough for me.  

[Llevron]

12 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Right here.

 

I personally think people put way too much faith into politicians these days.  People seem to think that these candidates can fix anything/everything that ails us.  I'm not sure why I should have faith in any of them.  And voting for someone else because they're anyone but Trump isn't good enough for me.  

 

Agree with everything here but I would just like to add that politicians have wayyyyy too much power these days and if someone is going to get it, it might as well be the person I think is less likely to make my life worse. 

 

[Mooka]

37 minutes ago, Springfield said:

This thread doesn’t inspire much hope for Dems winning next year.

 

Dem favorite is still Joe Biden?

 

Still a runway for Trump and its not even close.

[Renegade7]

46 minutes ago, Springfield said:

This thread doesn’t inspire much hope for Dems winning next year.

 

I've gone from shocked hed win back to not suprised, but it's still early.  We dont even know who hes going up against yet or what his poll numbers will be by then.

 

One thing I'll add is the people who spoke their responses to Trump being racist was the economic numbers and low unemployment numbers for different races.  If a recession happens, you destroy about 2/3rds of the talking points they used or came back to in that particular rally.

[visionary]

Does making the talking points not true make people stop using them?  

[Springfield]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I've gone from shocked hed win back to not suprised, but it's still early.  We dont even know who hes going up against yet or what his poll numbers will be by then.

 

One thing I'll add is the people who spoke their responses to Trump being racist was the economic numbers and low unemployment numbers for different races.  If a recession happens, you destroy about 2/3rds of the talking points they used or came back to in that particular rally.

 

I feel like they’ll come up with new talking points as to why they like him if the economy tanks.

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, visionary said:

Does making the talking points not true make people stop using them?  

No, not yet anyways.  Theres only so much lipstick you can put on a pig, at some point there wasnt a number you could throw out to make a good situation out of the 07 recession.

1 minute ago, Springfield said:

 

I feel like they’ll come up with new talking points as to why they like him if the economy tanks.

"Promises made. Promises kept." Is one of them, farmers are turning on him.

[NoCalMike]

58 minutes ago, Springfield said:

This thread doesn’t inspire much hope for Dems winning next year.

 

It's not so much that I don't think Trump will lose, as it is the fact that he still pulls likely 40% of likely voters.   That alone is reason for pause and self-reflection on our society.  Not to mention in order to beat Trump the Dem nominee will have to be someone as bland and boring as Joe Biden, a guy who was never really had much success at running before but suddenly is being looked at as some kind of necessity.  Sad.

[Spaceman Spiff]

26 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Agree with everything here but I would just like to add that politicians have wayyyyy too much power these days and if someone is going to get it, it might as well be the person I think is less likely to make my life worse. 

 

 

Nah man, that's the thing.  None of these ****heads are going to make your life worse or better.  

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Nah man, that's the thing.  None of these ****heads are going to make your life worse or better.  

 

Bruh you cant sit here and tell me life as an American citizen isn't worse with Trump in office. If it was just the tweets and overt racism then I could agree somewhat but we actually have people in this country who are looking for minorities that they hear the president speak out against just to kill them. Thats a real thing that is a direct result of this dudes presidency. And the Republicans let him do it. There are multiple things that Donald Trump himself has messed up in this country that directly effect me now that republicans let happen. 

 

Im working for a non profit now and a big part of that gig is supposed to be getting all my student loan debt paid off in a few (10!) years as long as I make the base payments. That **** stopped happening recently. Thats a direct monetary effect on my life. Many of the things these people control could make my life better. 

[visionary]

12 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Nah man, that's the thing.  None of these ****heads are going to make your life worse or better.  

That's the Russian muddying the water method right there.   Convince some people to agree, and convince the rest that it doesn't matter.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Bruh you cant sit here and tell me life as an American citizen isn't worse with Trump in office. If it was just the tweets and overt racism then I could agree somewhat but we actually have people in this country who are looking for minorities that they hear the president speak out against just to kill them. Thats a real thing that is a direct result of this dudes presidency. And the Republicans let him do it. There are multiple things that Donald Trump himself has messed up in this country that directly effect me now that republicans let happen. 

 

Im working for a non profit now and a big part of that gig is supposed to be getting all my student loan debt paid off in a few (10!) years as long as I make the base payments. That **** stopped happening recently. Thats a direct monetary effect on my life. Many of the things these people control could make my life better. 

 

Fair enough.  No doubt he's lowered the tone in this country.  I'm not saying he hasn't.

 

But we're still living in a great time despite the fact that there's someone like Trump in office.  IIRC, you're in IT management and operations, right?  The unemployment rate for IT is practically zero.  I don't deny that some of the decisions have had a direct monetary effect on your life but you're also working in a city and an industry where people like you are getting new jobs with higher salaries practically every day.  There are things that politicians can do to make your life better, but there are also things you can do, too.  

 

1 minute ago, visionary said:

That's the Russian muddying the water method right there.   Convince some people to agree, and convince the rest that it doesn't matter.

 

Yup, I spend WAY too much time on facebook looking at Russian clickbait.  Got me!

[The Evil Genius]

As someone who is married to a second (first born in the US) generation American (and an interracial marriage to boot), this #PresidentPAB has absolutely made my life a lot worse. Luckily I choose (and am able) to live in a very protective region of the US so I am mostly shielded from Trump maga ****ery and the morons it's dug up from under the rocks.

 

[visionary]

6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Fair enough.  No doubt he's lowered the tone in this country.  I'm not saying he hasn't.

 

But we're still living in a great time despite the fact that there's someone like Trump in office.  IIRC, you're in IT management and operations, right?  The unemployment rate for IT is practically zero.  I don't deny that some of the decisions have had a direct monetary effect on your life but you're also working in a city and an industry where people like you are getting new jobs with higher salaries practically every day.  There are things that politicians can do to make your life better, but there are also things you can do, too.  

It definitely is not a great time for a lot of people.  Things have gotten much worse for many because of this administration's policies.  

 

 

6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Yup, I spend WAY too much time on facebook looking at Russian clickbait.  Got me!

I bet you'd be surprised, lol.  But Russia influences indirectly more than anything.  They are good at getting others to use their methods.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

35 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Nah man, that's the thing.  None of these ****heads are going to make your life worse or better.  

You sound like my dad. Well, like my dad has sounded since 2016 anyway. For the 8 years prior he had nothing good to say about our President then, as soon as Trump gets elected he's all like, "hey, as long as I get my three square meals a day I'm happy.."

[Dan T.]

6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

You sound like my dad. Well, like my dad has sounded since 2016 anyway. For the 8 years prior he had nothing good to say about our President then, as soon as Trump gets elected he's all like, "hey, as long as I get my three square meals a day I'm happy.."

 

So your dad's in prison?

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

As someone who is married to a second (first born in the US) generation American (and an interracial marriage to boot), this #PresidentPAB has absolutely made my life a lot worse. Luckily I choose (and am able) to live in a very protective region of the US so I am mostly shielded from Trump maga ****ery and the morons it's dug up from under the rocks.

 

 

My girlfriend is Nigerian, the amount of crap we have to go through because of the immigration system has a direct on our ability to plan for our future, let alone the present like the EAD process. 

 

It's a seemingly intentionally inefficient system, with her having to turn down jobs to keep from getting trapped in a contract that would force us to move just to get her sponsored. 

 

She's aware she's from a ****hole country some people want to send her back to for any excuse possible.

[The Evil Genius]

I can't imagine the horrors of going through immigration now.

 

The irony being that President PABs current wife lied on her application that got her the Einstein visa. She probably would have been deported under this current admin..I mean if she wasn't pretending to be his wife (while lusting after the Canadian PM).