The Evil Genius Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I want to the July fourth rally and had a similar experience.... not nearly as racist or mean as the media makes a Trump rallies out to be... he didn’t mention the 3-4 term thing at that rally though. So a little bit of GOP branded racism is acceptable? I can see the bumper sticker now. Vote Trump in 2020. We're not as racist as people say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Did you feel like Mike Scott at an Eagles game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 What I mostly got from Renegade's experience is that there is a huge disconnect between policy people support vs politicians they support. All those conversations you had and "middle ground reached" on issues? Guess what, Trump (and the GOP proper for that matter), is in favor of none of it....so why are these people voting for Trump? Those people support a brand, and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Renegade7 said: You dont get it, the right has a pitbull they love to pet buy still hope doesnt bite them. You cant put someone on the same stage as him that's trying to be soft and measures that seem reasonable, they will get labeled an extremist. This isnt about the independents, this is about the left having something to vote for because the right will get scared into believing whoever the left candidate is is a socialist. I'm not sold on this being a blowout after seeing that many people that jus wanted a show, Hiliary was supposed to slay so bad Texas might be in play, remember? Silent majority is still there, people that want someone that will cross any line for their platform, the alternative cant be a soft hand approach. Trump would eat Joe alive. This assumes that Trump's hardcore base is half the electorate. It's not. It's about 35%. The actual moderates can and will think for themselves, and they see past Trumps unpresidential schtick for what it is, an absolute unfitness for office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: This assumes that Trump's hardcore base is half the electorate. It's not. It's about 35%. The actual moderates can and will think for themselves, and they see past Trumps unpresidential schtick for what it is, an absolute unfitness for office. I dont think it assumes anything when he still has 79% approval of all Republicans and 42% among independents even still after everything hes done in office. People do think for themselves and will still hold their nose against based on their fear of socialism or taking private insurance. This is what I mean by people changing what they'll put up with from their guy versus the alternative. How many people on this site alone have talked about how many of his nonsense doesnt effect them anyway? That's not just his base saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 45 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: So a little bit of GOP branded racism is acceptable? Acceptable or inevitable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: I dont think it assumes anything when he still has 79% approval of all Republicans and 42% among independents even still after everything hes done in office. People do think for themselves and will still hold their nose against based on their fear of socialism or taking private insurance. This is what I mean by people changing what they'll put up with from their guy versus the alternative. How many people on this site alone have talked about how many of his nonsense doesnt effect them anyway? That's not just his base saying that. People don't want to admit that "people who can think for themselves" could end up liking a guy or even voting for a guy like Trump. People that talk about "people who can think for themselves" like to look in the mirror and say that they can do the same. And if they can think for themselves and come to the conclusion that Trump sucks, well, so should others. And anyone that likes Trump or anyone that holds their nose while voting for him certainly can't be someone that thinks for themself. Because that would make these two people alike and there's no way in hell the first person wants anything to do with the Trump supporter. Plenty of people have thought for themselves and have found something appealing in Trump. I'm not sure what that is, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: What I mostly got from Renegade's experience is that there is a huge disconnect between policy people support vs politicians they support. This. My BIL complains about "people living on the gubmint", but is damn near at the mailbox for his SS disability check (which is necessary for him, to be fair). He knows social programs are important, just doesn't think "some people" are "worthy". 🙃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: People don't want to admit that "people who can think for themselves" could end up liking a guy or even voting for a guy like Trump. People that talk about "people who can think for themselves" like to look in the mirror and say that they can do the same. And if they can think for themselves and come to the conclusion that Trump sucks, well, so should others. And anyone that likes Trump or anyone that holds their nose while voting for him certainly can't be someone that thinks for themself. Because that would make these two people alike and there's no way in hell the first person wants anything to do with the Trump supporter. Plenty of people have thought for themselves and have found something appealing in Trump. I'm not sure what that is, but whatever. Sure. But it means acknowledging that a lot of people openly support a bigoted sexual predator who doesn't give a **** about them or anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, The Evil Genius said: Sure. It means acknowledging that a lot of people openly support a bigoted sexual predator who doesn't give a **** about them or anyone else. I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Destino said: Did you feel like Mike Scott at an Eagles game? Most people when they realized I was a liberal and no chance of voting for Trump either had their eyes go wide or actually indifferent. At one point I was talking to three veterans at the same time, my cousin included. He would clarify I had slight TDM (Trump Derangment Syndrom), and I could see people out the corner of my eyes reacting to conversations I was having with people, some smiled some I could tell weren't happy. The closest we came to someone being mad I was there was while we were leaving, but even though I felt like she didnt want me there, she still mentioned she was glad I came to hear what they had to say for myself instead of just believing the fake news. Honestly, I believe it might be a different story once the campaign really heats up, in 2016 there were so many protests, the violence was inevitable. I didnt see any protesting inside the rally or even more surprisingly outside the building. Its jus too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 I don’t think many people are going to be able to hold their nose and vote trump again this time around though. Unless the democratic candidate is truly horrid... warren beats trump easily... Biden beats trump, the rest are closer... Bearnie or buteledge/sp probably loose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Sure. But it means acknowledging that a lot of people openly support a bigoted sexual predator who doesn't give a **** about them or anyone else. True, but the mistake I believe some people are making is saying stuff like 4 out 5 Republicans still support Trump so 4 out of 5 republicans are racist. Stuff like that is why they take those generalized attacks and make t-shirts out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: True, but the mistake I believe some people are making is saying stuff like 4 out 5 Republicans still support Trump so 4 out of 5 republicans are racist. Stuff like that is why they take those generalized attacks and make t-shirts out of them. No, that's not a mistake. Those people genuinely feel that way because that's the only way they can rationalize someone voting for Trump. Or they can't get over the fact that some voters might not put race and race relations at the very front of their voting agenda. Plus it makes them feel better about themselves because it gives them a chance to distance themselves from Trump, Republicans, GOP, etc. People say that stuff because they mean it. They don't mince words and they say it time and time again. It's not a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 @Renegade7 cheers to you for taking a day to find out for yourself. I would imagine these rallies are not as offensive as they were in 2016 or 2017 simply because the attenders have what they want now and don't need to show their true selves as much as they did when they were desperate for changes. They are "at peace" now. Wait until 2020 gets rolling and the campaign fires are burning. (Or maybe the campaign crosses are burning.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I dont think it assumes anything when he still has 79% approval of all Republicans and 42% among independents even still after everything hes done in office. People do think for themselves and will still hold their nose against based on their fear of socialism or taking private insurance. This is what I mean by people changing what they'll put up with from their guy versus the alternative. How many people on this site alone have talked about how many of his nonsense doesnt effect them anyway? That's not just his base saying that. 79% of Rebublicans seems low to me, and 42% of independents will lose him the election. And I don't really think that a substantial amount of people on this site talk about Trump's nonsense not effecting them. In any event, the latest polling I've seen has him at 36% of independents and falling. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/six-in-10-americans-expect-a-recession-and-higher-prices-as-trumps-approval-rating-slips-washington-post-abc-news-poll-finds/2019/09/10/d99f3408-d2d7-11e9-ab26-e6dbebac45d3_story.html Quote Trump’s overall approval rating among independents is deeply underwater, with 36 percent approving of his job performance and 58 percent disapproving. That compares with a narrower negative split of 43 percent approval to 54 percent disapproval two months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, Spaceman Spiff said: People say that stuff because they mean it. They don't mince words and they say it time and time again. It's not a mistake. This is why last thing I posted was pondering difference between racism and prejudice. What I saw with my own two eyes was very few minorities, but cheering for ones on stage and cool with people on the floor because they had a common enemy. The conversation about blacks that were conservative not sticking with the dems because they felt they had to despite political differences was made a multiple times. This isnt to deny racist in the base or alt-right rallying behind a candidate they finally like. Is half the country actually racist just because they'd rather vote for Trump then a democrat, or has tribalism thoroughly taken over our political process that people will put up with what comes across as racist as long as their other platform items are addressed, like lower taxes and conservative judges? I'm not really in the mood for defending them, I'm jus not sure this gross labalization on both sides is working in the whole country's best interest. May be too late to reconcile that. 10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: 79% of Rebublicans seems low to me, and 42% of independents will lose him the election. And I don't really think that a substantial amount of people on this site talk about Trump's nonsense not effecting them. In any event, the latest polling I've seen has him at 36% of independents and falling. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/six-in-10-americans-expect-a-recession-and-higher-prices-as-trumps-approval-rating-slips-washington-post-abc-news-poll-finds/2019/09/10/d99f3408-d2d7-11e9-ab26-e6dbebac45d3_story.html Ya. I checked a couple different articles, if anything it is going down. I was speaking about either Trump supporters or conservatives in general, I'm not going to drop names, but they no who they are and a couple of those convos got really bad in other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Acceptable or inevitable.. Acceptable in a country who's stated goal is everyone getting equal protection under the law? Theres no way we meet that goal if we deem what your talking about acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Is half the country actually racist just because they'd rather vote for Trump then a democrat, or has tribalism thoroughly taken over our political process that people will put up with what comes across as racist as long as their other platform items are addressed, like lower taxes and conservative judges? IMO, it's tribalism. Party first, no matter what. Party before country, in this case. It's sad. To others (and I'm not criticizing them for it) that put race matters first above all else, half the country is racist. They can't fathom anyone else prioritizing any other issue in front of race...and that automatically makes them a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Ya. I checked a couple different articles, if anything it is going down. I was speaking about either Trump supporters or conservatives in general, I'm not going to drop names, but they no who they are and a couple of those convos got really bad in other threads. I have absolutely no doubt that Trump's hardcore supporters are still 100% on board, and nothing will change that short of possibly film of Trump having sex with a man. I do believe that Trump could, as he said, shoot someone and he would not lose support among those people. My point is that Trump's hardcore base is 35%, which isn't enough to win. Trump's hardcore opposition is somewhere around 50%. https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3638. I'm sure a Trump rally made you feel certain things, but a rally is not representative of the electorate, it's representative of Trump's hardcore base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Acceptable in a country who's stated goal is everyone getting equal protection under the law? Theres no way we meet that goal if we deem what your talking about acceptable. or... inevitable?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: or... inevitable?? Yes, that too. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I'm sure a Trump rally made you feel certain things, but a rally is not representative of the electorate, it's representative of Trump's hardcore base. Agree with this wholeheartedly and not trying to say it was. In work in DC, I'm sure you know people that seem extremely intelligent but still cant being themselves to vote for a Democrat. I literally work for the federal government a couple blocks from the Capitol and work with a couple of them. I'm nervous about these polls, they said ones for Hillary were too much in her favor as well, and I'm not sure if they really changed how they do them. The outcome should be obvious, but 2016 was supposed to be, too. 4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: or... inevitable?? We should not give in to the inevitable nature of the worst intentions of some people in this country for votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: This is why last thing I posted was pondering difference between racism and prejudice. What I saw with my own two eyes was very few minorities, but cheering for ones on stage and cool with people on the floor because they had a common enemy. An african-american friend once said this to me and I thought it was pretty poignant. "Everyone is prejudice. Not everyone is racist. Racist sounds like an adjective but it's really a verb." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 That's very deep thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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