Skinsinparadise Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 What are they doing with Trent Williams, the holdout left tackle? Who is the quarterback? Who is the coach? The first one is easy: Trade Williams. It should have been done already, because if he wanted to play here, he would be here. He’s 31. His injury history isn’t great. You’re essentially playing chicken with the guy who had been your best player solely to prove you can “win,” whatever that means? Please. There are teams that need left tackles. Get a draft pick and move on. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/at-0-3-its-time-to-ask-what-this-redskins-season-is-even-about/2019/09/23/004a4742-dd95-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, benskins26 said: Id say Scherff is playing his way out of a big contract. If you think about his career in a vacuum, he’s had 2 great seasons, one injured, one bad (so far). Not sure how you can give him 15 a year. And let's just say that's the case, and dude is washed. Does paying him 13M vs. 14.5-15M make that much of a difference? It would be easier to respect the decisions if they actually made sense. Going to a guy poised to get the most $ as a free agent with less than what it would require to get there is a fools errand. If you really want to nitpick his play or simply think he's not worth the $ he commands, you plan accordingly and move on. You don't just offer what you think he's worth and provide reasons why you don't think they are a top of market player, create bad blood and hang onto him until you get nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 hours ago, volsmet said: In the quote atop this page SM promised to daft a bully/red/alpha (awful terms, each) and that ended up being Josh Doctson; few have ever judged a personality more erroneously. I can only share his quotes (which illustrate the point I was asked to illustrate) & what I’ve heard 3rd hand ... it could be incorrect, but the people I know, who know SM, said it was Fowler, Scherff, and Gurley for him. SM thought Scherff would be the tackle that protected RG3 on the right side & he absolutely loved Long at RG. He thought he could trade down & get Scherff - with Gurley being the backup plan - but when it was time to pick he decided his first pick in DC would be the tone setter for the next decade. Callahan pushed for Moses to get back in the rotation at RT before our practices with Houston & the right side came together quickly. Oh, and SM loved La’el Collins. Miller thought he was a tackle, decent article really. Top tackle for Tony: Some loved Scherff at tackle despite the limitations that seemed obvious to you, and I, in college. Oh again, SM thought he’d be a mauler of a guard if he ever moved inside, but it turns out he’s better in pass pro than he is in the run game. I must admit, I thought Scherff would be better in the run than in protection as well. I think Probably wasted at least a dozen posts screaming to get mega value La'El Collins as he fell out of the draft on day 3 four and a half years ago, just totally lost my ----. A top 15-20 talent, available on day 3, round after round, everyone passing, simply because cops wanted to interview him for names regarding an ex who'd been murdered, cops clearly stating, he was an information interview, not a suspect. Didn't matter. Kids career nearly ruined because the league is run by 80 year old white guys. 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: ] The 2015 draft rumor you mentioned, is what I heard was too from draft geeks, beat guys. But his 2016 man crush was documented many times. Scot was talking there about Ryan Kelly but was shocked when the Colts took him. Doctson came a bit out of nowhere. The one I recall hearing from one person who covers the team is that McVay loved Doctson and pushed him hard behind the scenes. Heck sometimes you get em wrong. As Parcells likes to see if you go 50-50 you are really really good at this -- ditto 2-3 starters out of a draft. It was pre your time here. But I won an auction to have lunch with Scot in 2016, spent 2 hours talking to him, so got some insight on Doctson, Scherff among other stuff which I posted on the board back then. But don't have the energy to repeat right now. 😀 I supported and support the Doctson miss. He was a good process miss. I don't have a problem with missing on guys with good process, I have a problem with bad process leading to missed guys. I remember Kelly as well. Man, what a difference that would'a made. Also heard we liked that safety the raiders took super early ahead of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: ] The 2015 draft rumor you mentioned, is what I heard was too from draft geeks, beat guys. But his 2016 man crush was documented many times. Scot was talking there about Ryan Kelly but was shocked when the Colts took him. Doctson came a bit out of nowhere. The one I recall hearing from one person who covers the team is that McVay loved Doctson and pushed him hard behind the scenes. Heck sometimes you get em wrong. As Parcells likes to see if you go 50-50 you are really really good at this -- ditto 2-3 starters out of a draft. It was pre your time here. But I won an auction to have lunch with Scot in 2016, spent 2 hours talking to him, so got some insight on Doctson, Scherff among other stuff which I posted on the board back then. But don't have the energy to repeat right now. 😀 His entire philosophy was reds, I understand he liked Kelly, but he drafted Doctson. Perhaps the draft had just the one red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 12 hours ago, volsmet said: Hilarious quote from SM about our ensuing first rounder. I do remember that, and it really shook my confidence in McC, who I was so happy to get, that was b.s. to me. Pure b.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSurrender Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 19 hours ago, UKskins said: Tyler Polombus supports this comment and thanks you. Stephon Heyer supports this comment and thanks you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Trents holdout continues to piss me off. Get it sorted. Scherff continues to disappoint and piss me off. Get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 No message can be sent that's better than an empty stadium, and maybe some Purge Style assaults on the Snyder compound wherever it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 hours ago, volsmet said: His entire philosophy was reds, I understand he liked Kelly, but he drafted Doctson. Perhaps the draft had just the one red. OK but the comment you posted was him referring to Kelly not Doctson. As for him getting Doctson wrong, I guess my thought is so what? I know he thought he was a red. Every GM gets some wrong as you know even first rounders. I get the humor is those comments didn't come into play for Doctson whether he was referring to him there or not -- I agree with that angle. But he was referring there in theory to Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: OK but the comment you posted was him referring to Kelly not Doctson. As for him getting Doctson wrong, I guess my thought is so what? I know he thought he was a red. Every GM gets some wrong as you know even first rounders. I get the humor is those comments didn't come into play for Doctson whether he was referring to him there or not -- I agree with that angle. But he was referring there in theory to Kelly. Oy vey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempre_victrix Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, The Consigliere said: No message can be sent that's better than an empty stadium, and maybe some Purge Style assaults on the Snyder compound wherever it is. Dan doesn't care, most of the seats have been paid for. He'll lose concession money, but he gets tons of money from revenue sharing. If the putrid displays of the last 20 years have not shamed him into action, nothing fans do will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 It’s crazy to think that some people here bashing the OL for being so bad are also on board with letting Scherff walk at the end of the year. Of all the positions you hold onto imo it’s OL. If you have a good one you hang on to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinky Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 4 hours ago, PartyPosse said: It’s crazy to think that some people here bashing the OL for being so bad are also on board with letting Scherff walk at the end of the year. Of all the positions you hold onto imo it’s OL. If you have a good one you hang on to them. If people are willing to let him walk, then he should be traded along with TW and (any of Norman, AP, Richardson that brings something back). Add a few more picks over the next 2 years and get some cap space back. Room that lets you eat the Smith/Reed contracts next year (maybe Moses didn't look at the numbers). Focus on OL would then be needed over the 2 years obviously. I don't see Norman/AP/Richardson as big losses like Scherff/TW, but hopefully the new picks this year can grow at G and we "just" need a pair of tackles. Clearly not ideal for the next year and means you at least redshirt Haskins, but I think it would send a message this team needs a true reboot. With Big Ben, Brees I don't think trading Keenum is a good idea (after last night I can't imagine anyones offering anything). I think you ride it out for at least a few more games and keep him as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 16 hours ago, volsmet said: Oy vey. I kid. 😀 On another note, there are some guys we might be able to acquire in a Trent trade to bolster this defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: I kid. 😀 On another note, there are some guys we might be able to acquire in a Trent trade to bolster this defense I know you’re making a joke but In an odd way you are just making the point that this coaching staff blows. Which I feel you and so many others argue the contrary in an effort to tear down the FO. We aren’t using the pieces we have in place correctly. Put Allen Payne and Ioan on Green Bay or Kansas City and you think they aren’t more impactful? If Moreau were to be traded, everyone would be like whatever until he’s PFF’s rated top corner. We are drafting talented players at a better clip league wide, we need a coaching staff that can get the most out of these guys. Don’t take this is as me saying I want Bruce to remain the head honcho. He’s been calling the shots for Jays tenure and one playoff appearance and zero wins isn’t good enough and clearly we are trending downward. That along with the fact that somehow everyone and their mother forgot about Weasel Snyder and instead has devoted their Redskin fandom to vilifying Allen, so naturally him being gone will reinvigorate the fan base which is SORELY needed. I was only pointing this out for those acting like Jay and his coaching staff is severely hamstrung. He’s been handed plenty of talented players over the years that seem to be playing much better in other systems with other coaching tutelage. And please please PLEASE I don’t need to hear a laundry list of FO F ups to prove Jay has it so bad. No team is perfect and most teams have a similar amount of moves that don’t pan out. There is zero reason Buffalo and San Fran should be 3-0 while we sit at an embarrassing 0-3. Coaching in football is paramount, and right now it’s obvious the current staff isn’t hacking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said: I know you’re making a joke but In an odd way you are just making the point that this coaching staff blows. Which I feel you and so many others argue the contrary in an effort to tear down the FO. To me you come off all over the place on Jay in general. I've seen you prop him not long ago, I've seen you rip him. Both times in the context of an argument you were making pro for the FO. I recall once was talking about Jay underachieving with the talent like you are doing here. The prop ironically was a nod to Bruce for making good hires and you included Jay who understands how to pick talent. That wasn't long ago. So Jay at different times good or bad depending how it makes Bruce look? Yet, you hit me for liking the coaches (even though I've been lukewarm and have killed the defensive coordinators here) just an excuse to rip the FO and by extension Bruce? I got plenty of thoughts about the team that have nothing to do with Bruce. And if I wanted to hit Bruce I wouldn't have to get that obscure. Read twitter, just about every thread here, listen to talk radio, put on the TV -- i am not a dude who is just flailing to dig up some angle to hit Bruce. I don't have to work hard at it at all. It's everywhere. I am sorry to tell you that a pro Jay position is actually a VERY pro Bruce position. I am not in love with Jay but like him and I don't think he's the moron that so many others think him to be. Some of the really anti-Jay people actually use a heavy handed Bruce tie as part of the hit. And I understand the angle. There is no easy argument that slams Jay and props up Bruce simultaneously. Jay was Bruce's boy, and he's stood by him. I doubt Bruce is saying behind the scenes Dan lets get rid of that bum Jay who has underachieved with my talent. Dan flat out said it was Vinny's call of hiring Zorn that led to his downfall and firing. Hiring a coach is a really really big deal. It's not just one decision in the mix of others but the key decision. Jay going down would probably be the worst thing for Bruce. Heck I flat out said multiple times for well over a year that I'd gladly take Jay as collateral damage to get rid of Bruce. And as for your Dan comments, read a few threads on the board especially some of the recent ones. In your post we got: A. That I am propping Jay up to slam the FO-Bruce B. Jay is underachieving with the talent the FO-Bruce has given him C. We are forgetting about Dan Snyder's role in this and not focused on him and should be. Instead we are vilifying Bruce. D. You don't want to hear about mistakes done by the FO-Bruce, since every FO makes them E. Yet, you say don't get me wrong that you aren't propping up Bruce and selling him to stay in the spot he's in. I am just going to let those points sit for all the people who have debated you and know your posting history on the subject. No editorial needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 What part of every coach will fail if everything stays as-is, is that hard to comprehend? That’s not defending Jay, Shanahan or every other coach that left with a worse reputation than they came in with. What it is saying is that there is an obvious lack of synergy between the coaches and FO, historically. While the team has talent, there are a laundry list of wasted resources that cost the team dearly. Drafting talent doesn’t mean the team is being ran optimally. It’s not even debatable, yet some fools always want to debate it. Bruce Allen doesn’t need to go to fire up the fan base. He needs to go because he’s bad at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 King also criticized the Redskins for their handling of the Williams situation, refusing to trade their Pro Bowl left tackle because they were confident he would return. There’s no end in sight for Williams’s holdout. “They look like fools,” King said. “It’s an utterly preposterous way to run your organization. ... King summed up the Redskins’ situation succinctly: “This is a franchise that is totally messed up right now,” he said. “We’re only three games into the season and I don’t know if there’s any franchise in the NFL that can be less optimistic right now than Washington is.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: To me you come off all over the place on Jay in general. I've seen you prop him not long ago, I've seen you rip him. Both times in the context of an argument you were making pro for the FO. I recall once was talking about Jay underachieving with the talent like you are doing here. The prop ironically was a nod to Bruce for making good hires and you included Jay who understands how to pick talent. That wasn't long ago. So Jay at different times good or bad depending how it makes Bruce look? I don’t recall what you are referencing but yes I think Jay is a good talent evaluator, as is Kyle Smith, and they seem to be big driving forces behind the draft successes as of late. And yes, Bruce deserves credit for hiring them and allowing them to go to work and pick some of these guys. Quote In your post we got: A. That I am propping Jay up to slam the FO-Bruce You and others do, yes. I’ve ready many times that we can’t judge Jay because of what he’s forced to deal with. And I think that’s bogus. Quote B. Jay is underachieving with the talent the FO-Bruce has given him Yup. Although massive injuries and some unfortunate circumstances play a part. Next man up though. Quote C. We are forgetting about Dan Snyder's role in this and not focused on him and should be. Instead we are vilifying Bruce. This is just something I find personally amusing. He’s the most hated figure in Washington and it’s basically a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. Snyder is the problem, always has been always will be it seems, though there are small signs of improvement. Quote D. You don't want to hear about mistakes done by the FO-Bruce, since every FO makes them My point is that Jay is not more hamstrung, than say Kyle Shanahan whos organization who has drafted multiple top ten disappointments and guys like Foster who are drafted and released 2 years in. That Garoppalo trade and contract is far from being worth it either, and yet here they stand at 3-0. Quote E. Yet, you say don't get me wrong that you aren't propping up Bruce and selling him to stay in the spot he's in. I’m saying it’s time for a change. For a few reasons. None of that takes away from the above 4 points. Quote I am just going to let those points sit for all the people who have debated you and know your posting history on the subject. No editorial needed. As @Califan007 says, you seem to be attacking me based on what you personally think I’m doing (mental gymnastics to support Bruce lol) and not my actual points. Nothing new to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Oh man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 19 hours ago, sempre_victrix said: Dan doesn't care, most of the seats have been paid for. He'll lose concession money, but he gets tons of money from revenue sharing. If the putrid displays of the last 20 years have not shamed him into action, nothing fans do will. That's where I am too. I think the only way anything changes, is if TV money dries up. Or the NFL changes the luxury suite exemption for revenue sharing. Right now, Dan doesn't need to do anything, and even with gross mismanagement is turning a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Some of you dont seem to get this, both Bruce Allen and Jay Gruden are absolute trash. It isnt an either/or. You dont get to be 1-9 in your last 10 games because just ONE part of your organization is trash and the other is average, you only get that way when you are trash from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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