!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I have yet to see the evidence you all actually believe better is possible

There is literally a thread right now, dedicated, to providing 3 recommendations to Dan Snyder on better being possible.

 

Several of the folks you are referring to have provided content there.

[London Kev]

On 9/26/2019 at 3:04 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s hilarious that you’ve led yourself to believe that you’re special when it comes to predicting coaches will end up sucking here.  Coachstradamus you are.  Guess what? I’ll beat you to it.  If things stay as they are and a new head coach is hired, no matter how you feel about them before they get here, everyone will eventually hate their guts.  Wow, I’m psychic!

 

There's a few really good debates going on here right now, and I don't want to derail anything but 'Coachstradamus you are' is one of the funniest one-liners that I've heard for ages, Kudos. 

[carex]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Elaborate on this point, please. I am interested in your point of view on the matter. 

 

All right.  Of course you know this will be very subjective.  To me you set up the team for failure for anyone reasonable.

 

You all act like you expect the team to be the worst in the league and talk about wanting to see a Super Bowl.  That's not realistic goals.  "Why doesn't this team that sucks win games? Why?"  Yeah, I'd love them to get to the Super Bowl.  I'm not going to condemn them for not making it, until it's a realistic goal for them to make it.  Even if it has been 28 years.  Also I remember when the Skins were the last NFC team to lose to an AFC team for a decade plus and I don't want them to go back till I'm sure they'll win.

 

And you say you expect the team to be the worst in the league when there are teams actively tanking, they were around .500 the year before and they have a QB that has had solid success in the past.  Where does the drop off in talent that would cause this collapse come from?

 

the way you talk about the Skins getting better it just feels like so many caveats that you may as well say they'll get better when pigs fly

 

People say the Skins will only go down hill because of the current regime, call for them intentionally get worse without addressing where the people to make them get better will come from

 

there's the no one wants to come here thing.  When someone signs it therefore has to be because we overpaid.  We should not overpay people  But when someone leaves without signing, we obviously offered them an unfair salary.  Despite the fact no one wants to come here, we should get people to sign here for exactly market value.  And anyone who says they'd like to come here is lying or said it cause they were overpaid.

 

if an ex Redskin has success elsewhere it always shows how terrible the Skins are as judges of talent, no matter how many teams the guy was on between his time with the Skins and his success.

 

The Skins are condemned for not bringing in anyone to deal with an injury issue, even if the player hurt was a guy brought in to deal with previous injury issues.  Players who come here will under perform and will over perform when they leave. Anyone who comes here and is thought of as top quality within the NFL is overrated by homer fans

 

It's become clear, that despite the fans calling for them to be frugal with money and to make the best of lower round draft picks fans only consider 1st, 2nd round picks or signing starters from other teams as addressing a problem

 

And I'm sure many people will say not everyone acts this way or is not lockstep with each other, but there's very little trying to convince people with differing opinions your way is right.  People who think the Skins need to replace coaches talk who and when with people who think they need to replace coaches while people who say the front office needs to be replaced first say that that would be a waste of time then talk with other people who think it would be a waste of time till the front office is replaced without actually convincing the people who just want coaching changes

 

 

[carex]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There is literally a thread right now, dedicated, to providing 3 recommendations to Dan Snyder on better being possible.

 

Several of the folks you are referring to have provided content there.

 

playing fantasy football as though you were talking to the team owner yourself and offering ideas is not believing things can get better.  That's playing fantasy football

 

Believing things can get better is looking at what we have, looking at things the people in charge can viably get and the challenges we've got coming and putting them together to make things better is believing things can get better.  In fact in my response posts I mention how I think all the caveats you all add to making the Skins better makes it equivalent to asking pigs to fly

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, carex said:

 

playing fantasy football as though you were talking to the team owner yourself and offering ideas is not believing things can get better.  That's playing fantasy football

 

Believing things can get better is looking at what we have, looking at things the people in charge can viably get and the challenges we've got coming and putting them together to make things better is believing things can get better.  In fact in my response posts I mention how I think all the caveats you all add to making the Skins better makes it equivalent to asking pigs to fly

So in order to be a real fan you have to find solutions with what's already here, because desiring change is unfan-like?  I really don't get it.

[KDawg]

26 minutes ago, carex said:

 

 

 

You all act like you expect the team to be the worst in the league and talk about wanting to see a Super Bowl. 

 

 

I'm not sure what this means.

 

Quote

That's not realistic goals.  "Why doesn't this team that sucks win games? Why?"  Yeah, I'd love them to get to the Super Bowl.  I'm not going to condemn them for not making it, until it's a realistic goal for them to make it.  Even if it has been 28 years.  Also I remember when the Skins were the last NFC team to lose to an AFC team for a decade plus and I don't want them to go back till I'm sure they'll win.

 

Since you're saying "you" I assume you mean me and everyone not named carex, so I'll reply from a personal standpoint.

 

I don't think they're going to the Super Bowl with this roster. Never have. So that's a false assumption. And I think I can speak for most of us here on that one. So I think you are starting off from uneven ground.

 

And you say you expect the team to be the worst in the league when there are teams actively tanking, they were around .500 the year before and they have a QB that has had solid success in the past.  Where does the drop off in talent that would cause this collapse come from?

 

the way you talk about the Skins getting better it just feels like so many caveats that you may as well say they'll get better when pigs fly

 

From my perspective: It's not about talent. But I do think people undervalued what Alex Smith brought to this team. Many disagree with me. He's not the ideal QB, but he values the ball and he makes some outstanding decisions. I think we lost a lot at quarterback. I also think our offensive line, mainly the right side has regressed. That's from a talent perspective. Otherwise its fairly close.

 

Where we struggle is from a structural standpoint. The front office > coaching staff connection.

 

I don't think its all that hard to repair. Remove Allen. Give full autonomy for football decisions to a football guy. Many problems resolve themselves.

 

Quote

People say the Skins will only go down hill because of the current regime, call for them intentionally get worse without addressing where the people to make them get better will come from

 

 

there's the no one wants to come here thing.  When someone signs it therefore has to be because we overpaid.  We should not overpay people  But when someone leaves without signing, we obviously offered them an unfair salary.  Despite the fact no one wants to come here, we should get people to sign here for exactly market value.  And anyone who says they'd like to come here is lying or said it cause they were overpaid.

 

if an ex Redskin has success elsewhere it always shows how terrible the Skins are as judges of talent, no matter how many teams the guy was on between his time with the Skins and his success.

 

 

None of this is true. No one comes for market value... to pretty much anyone not named The Patriots. I'm a big fan of Landon Collins, for example. Aside from getting okeydoked the other night, I think he's been very good for us. I would have spent the money on Earl Thomas, too, if I was looking to sign a SS. FS is a gaping glaring hole for us. I think Collins certainly came because of the money, but I also think he wanted to wear the same jersey as Sean Taylor. If the Skins gave him a lowball offer I doubt he's here. But they didn't and he is. 

 

I think when Skins go elsewhere and succeed it has less to do with talent and more to do with scheme... from a personal standpoint.

 

Quote

It's become clear, that despite the fans calling for them to be frugal with money and to make the best of lower round draft picks fans only consider 1st, 2nd round picks or signing starters from other teams as addressing a problem

 

A lot of this stuff is simply in your head. I'm not sure I've ever seen these sentiments in any of the quality discussion that occurs here.

 

Quote

And I'm sure many people will say not everyone acts this way or is not lockstep with each other, but there's very little trying to convince people with differing opinions your way is right.  People who think the Skins need to replace coaches talk who and when with people who think they need to replace coaches while people who say the front office needs to be replaced first say that that would be a waste of time then talk with other people who think it would be a waste of time till the front office is replaced without actually convincing the people who just want coaching changes

 

Lost me here, man. But I appreciate you taking the time. 

 

[carex]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So in order to be a real fan you have to find solutions with what's already here, because desiring change is unfan-like?  I really don't get it.

 

it's more about expecting the changes you would make to make a difference and then calling the team idiots for not doing what you would have done.  I think that's more about building you up than hoping for better for your team.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

it's more about expecting the changes you would make to make a difference and then calling the team idiots for not doing what you would have done.  I think that's more about building you up than hoping for better for your team.

 

So what you're doing here is about building you up?

[carex]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

So what you're doing here is about building you up?

 

I am talking directly to you, you all are not talking directly to the front office of the Redskins

 

Quote

 

A lot of this stuff is simply in your head. I'm not sure I've ever seen these sentiments in any of the quality discussion that occurs here.

 

Can you guarantee I've only seen quality discussions?

 

Quote

From my perspective: It's not about talent. But I do think people undervalued what Alex Smith brought to this team. Many disagree with me. He's not the ideal QB, but he values the ball and he makes some outstanding decisions. I think we lost a lot at quarterback. I also think our offensive line, mainly the right side has regressed. That's from a talent perspective. Otherwise its fairly close.

 

Where we struggle is from a structural standpoint. The front office > coaching staff connection.

 

then why do we have so many posts talking about who the Skins desperately need to cut ?

[Veryoldschool]

What are they waiting for?  Why haven't they traded Trent Williams?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, carex said:

 

it's more about expecting the changes you would make to make a difference and then calling the team idiots for not doing what you would have done.  I think that's more about building you up than hoping for better for your team.

Yes, because presenting recommendations that are in no way groundbreaking to an audience of folks who don’t me from Sam, about a football team I’ll never be in any way employed by, really builds me up.  

 

Honestly, of all the egregious things you’ve blessed us with over the years, this really takes the cake.

 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, carex said:

 

I am talking directly to you, you all are not talking directly to the front office of the Redskins

 

 

And we're all talking to each other. And not the front office. What's the difference?

 

Can you guarantee I've only seen quality discussions?

 

No, sir, I cannot. But that also means that perhaps you are doing some over generalizing. And in my opinion, you're focusing on a small fraction of the conversation that occurs on a fan forum called "extreme" Skins.

 

then why do we have so many posts talking about who the Skins desperately need to cut ?

 

Because they need to cut some people in some poster's opinions. Just as your opinion is that they should somehow improve without changing. (To be fair, that is a gross generalization of your own point, but when in Rome [and trying to prove a point])

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

I have yet to see the evidence you all actually believe better is possible

  

And you seem to have seriously misunderstood me if you think I want a Super Bowl.  The Redskins aren't anywhere near good enough to win a Super Bowl.  So I don't even think of a Super Bowl.  Seriously, I'm always a guy who says they might go 7-9 to 9-7, how can anyone think I believe the Skins going to the Super Bowl let alone winning it is somehow possible

 

If I truly believed this is all the skins could be, it would be very easy to never come back here. 

 

Am I frustrated at 0-3 and how there is constantly drama on and/or off the field?  Yes.

 

Do I have hopes that this team is going to magical run the table and hit the playoffs?  No.

 

Do I come on here every day and read constant amounts of info (like 234 pages of TW speculation that doesn't even have direct quotes from TW....) Yes

 

I come back hoping to see news on TW coming back or an epiphany that the window isn't there and we traded pieces that show we're thinking true rebuild.  Every rumor, speculation and news article is posted here and I hope to see news I like. 

 

However, saying I'm not a fan because I don't like how this team is run right now is 100% your opinion.  No part of me would come back if I wasn't hopeful it would get better. 

[carex]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yes, because presenting recommendations that are in no way groundbreaking to an audience of folks who don’t me from Sam, about a football team I’ll never be in any way employed by, really builds me up.  

 

Honestly, of all the egregious things you’ve blessed us with over the years, this really takes the cake.

 

 

 

people wouldn't trash talk people they didn't know if it didn't in some way make them feel better about themselves

 

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

And we're all talking to each other. And not the front office. What's the difference?

 

 

well, when trying to solve a problem it generally helps if all the people involved in the problem are there

[KDawg]

Just now, carex said:

 

well, when trying to solve a problem it generally helps if all the people involved in the problem are there

 

We're on a fan forum, man.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, carex said:

people wouldn't trash talk people they didn't know if it didn't in some way make them feel better about themselves

Actually, I think I can speak for a great many of us in saying that we find humor in trash talk.  Particularly on an internet forum with a less personal touch.

 

Sure, I think there is something amiss in your brain related to how you view this organization, but it doesn't make me feel better about myself.

[sportjunkie07]

28 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

What are they waiting for?  Why haven't they traded Trent Williams?

They're waiting for his value to go down. 

[carex]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Actually, I think I can speak for a great many of us in saying that we find humor in trash talk.  Particularly on an internet forum with a less personal touch.

 

Sure, I think there is something amiss in your brain related to how you view this organization, but it doesn't make me feel better about myself.

 

You know, I don't think I've ever asked.  How do you think I view this organization?

 

17 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

If I truly believed this is all the skins could be, it would be very easy to never come back here. 

 

Am I frustrated at 0-3 and how there is constantly drama on and/or off the field?  Yes.

 

Do I have hopes that this team is going to magical run the table and hit the playoffs?  No.

 

Do I come on here every day and read constant amounts of info (like 234 pages of TW speculation that doesn't even have direct quotes from TW....) Yes

 

I come back hoping to see news on TW coming back or an epiphany that the window isn't there and we traded pieces that show we're thinking true rebuild.  Every rumor, speculation and news article is posted here and I hope to see news I like. 

 

However, saying I'm not a fan because I don't like how this team is run right now is 100% your opinion.  No part of me would come back if I wasn't hopeful it would get better. 

 

sorry, but I also hang out on wrestling forums and see plenty of people who hate everything about WWE show up right at the beginning of every show and spend the entire time criticizing so I know plenty of people who think they'd walk away when they had no hope but don't

 

 

 

[CommDownMan]

4 minutes ago, carex said:

 

You know, I don't think I've ever asked.  How do you think I view this organization?

 

 

sorry, but I also hang out on wrestling forums and see plenty of people who hate everything about WWE show up right at the beginning of every show and spend the entire time criticizing so I know plenty of people who think they'd walk away when they had no hope but don't

 

 

 

 

So you're making an assumption about everyone based on a few people you met.  Cool.

[Capsman]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

it's more about expecting the changes you would make to make a difference and then calling the team idiots for not doing what you would have done.  I think that's more about building you up than hoping for better for your team.

I think you are off base here.  It's less about "building ourselves up" and more about a release of frustration.  For example, I'm not trying to build myself up by saying Greg Manusky is an absolute disaster of a defensive coordinator or Bruce Allen is a petulant, bratty man who doesn't have the goods to back up his arrogance.  It's simply a release, and no better location than amongst other Skins fans to do so.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, carex said:

You know, I don't think I've ever asked.  How do you think I view this organization?

I can only go on the fact that you take the contrarian angle at pretty much every ounce of criticism headed in the direction of anything related to the franchise: owner, FO, players (other thank Kirk, probably only because you decided he was a turncoat), etc.  if anything, you're consistent in that you will typically always find reasons to justify their decisions, make excuses for their results and if they ever hang a banner for "6-3 in 2018" it would be a crime if they didn't let you unveil it.

 

So honestly, I don't know how you view the organization per se, I just know that you always have an excuse for their shortcomings.

[skinsmania123]

 I try to put principles before personalities so I can have my own process and position on certain subjects and learn things.   On this site hell yeah sometimes I may adamantly disagree with a poster on  a certain subjects, i.e. Jay Gruden this year for me,  but then adamantly agree with that same poster on another subject, i.e.  Bruce Allen every year.  Thats just me.   I don't know anyone on here so it is hard to be pissed off BUT what I have noticed is some people neither read or comprehend what another poster is saying and that is too bad.  I mean no objective debate or openness to any other opinion?  Come on now.    And  I know I can say this, because I changed my position on Kirk Cousins on this site and stated why I did it.  And I was probably one of the most vocal lets get rid of Kirk campaigners.   If it were not for the debates however with some of the guys on here who saw him differently i would not have considered other areas.   And while some did trash talk, and it was fun going back at them, others patiently presented their positions and it won me over. 

 

Hopefully @jsharrin55 speaks for a lot of us. Especially on this point: If I truly believed this is all the skins could be, it would be very easy to never come back here.   

 

I come on here every single day believing that maybe, just maybe, Snyder as one example, will take the majority's advice on here and in those in the media, and stop meddling where he does not belong.   I guess I keep envisioning Joe Gibbs pulling him aside and saying, "lets have a long overdue chat son."   That will lead him to break off his bromance and late night drinking "we are close" rendezvous with Bruce Allen.  Fire the ass kisser, and admit to himself that he was wrong, and hire legitimate football guys to turn this **** show around.  

 

 

 

[Conn]

I'm not sure how someone could be so immersed in the discussion here and yet have such a distorted view of those discussions, but if this thread has been good for anything I hope it's shown @carex that though we may all hold different hopes for the team, we are all passionate fans. We express it differently but that's really it. Lots of good posts on this page, including from carex voicing his perceptions...and maybe we can all understand each other a bit more, as much as we might personally agree or disagree with individual posts. 

 

This idea that people here don't engage each other on topics they disagree on is unfounded though. That's essentially all ES is--different ideas to fix the team arguing constantly lol. 

[carex]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I can only go on the fact that you take the contrarian angle at pretty much every ounce of criticism headed in the direction of anything related to the franchise: owner, FO, players (other thank Kirk, probably only because you decided he was a turncoat), etc.  if anything, you're consistent in that you will typically always find reasons to justify their decisions, make excuses for their results and if they ever hang a banner for "6-3 in 2018" it would be a crime if they didn't let you unveil it.

 

So honestly, I don't know how you view the organization per se, I just know that you always have an excuse for their shortcomings.

 

tht's because in general I believe that there are always reasons for things and it has to be a lot more important than football for you to get into things where reasons don't matter

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, carex said:

 

tht's because in general I believe that there are always reasons for things and it has to be a lot more important than football for you to get into things where reasons don't matter

Of course there are reasons for everything but a lot of the time your reasons sound like excuses.  As if the mediocrity of the franchise is just bad luck vs, bad decisions.