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!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up


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17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That's like my son deserving praise for brushing his teeth at night.  Why should I credit him for doing what most kids do and are supposed to d?

 

 

No, it's like giving credit to dozens of other kids in the neighborhood for brushing their teeth at night, but when your son starts brushing his teeth at night you say "What, you want a cookie? You're supposed to do that." If the other kids deserve credit, so does your son.

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Just now, Califan007 said:

 

No, it's like giving credit to dozens of other kids in the neighborhood for brushing their teeth at night, but when your son starts brushing his teeth at night you say "What, you want a cookie? You're supposed to do that." If the other kids deserve credit, so does your son.

But I don’t give credit to other kids in the neighborhood, because everyone is supposed to do it.  

 

I don’t see a bunch of posts crediting teams for valuing the draft and not signing every high priced FA to huge deals.  Sure there are examples of teams that have tried that approach before but it was the Redskins philosophy for pretty much the entirety of VinnyDan’s reign.  It’s conventional wisdom that teams should build through the draft and spend wisely in FA.  When teams build  starters and depth via the draft, re-sign players at the optimal time, let go of players in the optimal way, spend wisely on FA and the results show that, they get credit.  The results don’t show that here, so why do they deserve credit?

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24 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That's like my son deserving praise for brushing his teeth at night.  Why should I credit him for doing what most kids do and are supposed to do?

 

Your obsession with folks loving to criticize the Redskins is just as odd as a lot of your takes.  I actually long for the day we can agree on something.  Watching exciting, winning football trumps criticizing every single day of the week.

 

yeah, but those aren't the options you have, are they?

 

I spend plenty of time in fandom and when something makes a fan unhappy there's an incredible tendency to only focus on that and that's what I complain about. 

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But I don’t give credit to other kids in the neighborhood, because everyone is supposed to do it.  

 

I don’t see a bunch of posts crediting teams for valuing the draft and not signing every high priced FA to huge deals.  Sure there are examples of teams that have tried that approach before but it was the Redskins philosophy for pretty much the entirety of VinnyDan’s reign.  It’s conventional wisdom that teams should build through the draft and spend wisely in FA.  When teams build  starters and depth via the draft, re-sign players at the optimal time, let go of players in the optimal way, spend wisely on FA and the results show that, they get credit.  The results don’t show that here, so why do they deserve credit?

 

that's what you're doing every time you compare the Skins to another team and say that's the way things should be done.  You're acknowledging their superiority and wishing your team did the same.  That's what giving credit is, whether you mean to do it or not.

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6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But I don’t give credit to other kids in the neighborhood, because everyone is supposed to do it.  

 

I don’t see a bunch of posts crediting teams for valuing the draft and not signing every high priced FA to huge deals.  Sure there are examples of teams that have tried that approach before but it was the Redskins philosophy for pretty much the entirety of VinnyDan’s reign.  It’s conventional wisdom that teams should build through the draft and spend wisely in FA.  When teams build  starters and depth via the draft, re-sign players at the optimal time, let go of players in the optimal way, spend wisely on FA and the results show that, they get credit.  The results don’t show that here, so why do they deserve credit?

 

I didn't say you specifically did. I said "we" (collectively) have praised other teams for not trying to build through high priced free agency and "doing it the right way" by concentrating on the draft...and I said we've been doing this for years. You don't see it as much now because, whether we like it or not, under Bruce the Skins have veered away from making "splash' free agency signings and ignoring the draft.

 

And is seems you are confusing what the credit is being given for...it wasn't for the results, it was for the approach:

 

"...only here is not paying guys like Haynesworth 100M & actually using draft picks seen as something to receive credit for.  As if that's some groundbreaking strategy."

 

No mention of results needing to be seen first in your post.

 

And the credit isn't for coming up with a new groundbreaking approach...it's for finally starting to do things the right way, even if it's being done by the wrong people. Again, i can't think of a single reason why Skins fans shouldn't be happy it's finally being done this way and give credit where credit is due.

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20 minutes ago, carex said:

that's what you're doing every time you compare the Skins to another team and say that's the way things should be done.  You're acknowledging their superiority and wishing your team did the same.  That's what giving credit is, whether you mean to do it or not.

 

 

Agree with this...not specifically for BFS but in general. We credit and praise other teams for doing things the "right way" when the Skins are not, and when the Skins start doing those same things should anyone be surprised when they also start getting credit? I'm not. It's the same thing as fans criticizing the Skins for doing things the majority of other franchises do. We most recently saw this with the whole "Haskins running the scout team" narrative.

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Agree with this...not specifically for BFS but in general. We credit and praise other teams for doing things the "right way" when the Skins are not, and when the Skins start doing those same things should anyone be surprised when they also start getting credit? I'm not. It's the same thing as fans criticizing the Skins for doing things the majority of other franchises do. We most recently saw this with the whole "Haskins running the scout team" narrative.

 

indeed.  Fans around here also embrace inconsistent narratives in their quest to not give proper credit.  For example if you take this thread as reality Ryan Kerrigan is either a hasbeen or neverwas who is not worth his salary.  So we should trade him, because certainly other teams will want to give us something of value for our expensive hasbeen/neverwas.  We're terrible because we do things differently  with our front office in that we don't have a traditional GM.  And then there's complaints that we could have had Sean McVay.... but like you don't promote the coordinators of fired head coaches.  Successful coordinators become coaches by going to different teams or by waiting for their successful boss to leave

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38 minutes ago, carex said:

 

indeed.  Fans around here also embrace inconsistent narratives in their quest to not give proper credit.  For example if you take this thread as reality Ryan Kerrigan is either a hasbeen or neverwas who is not worth his salary.  So we should trade him, because certainly other teams will want to give us something of value for our expensive hasbeen/neverwas.  We're terrible because we do things differently  with our front office in that we don't have a traditional GM.  And then there's complaints that we could have had Sean McVay.... but like you don't promote the coordinators of fired head coaches.  Successful coordinators become coaches by going to different teams or by waiting for their successful boss to leave

You are acting as if everyone shares the same opinion on everything, when that’s not the case.

 

For example, I think Bruce is a career loser douchebag.  However, I’ve never been of the belief that firing Gruden and promoting McVay was an option or his fault for not seeing it and making it happen.  

 

I also don’t crush him for making Ryan Kerrigan the highest paid LB at the time.  I do use Kerrigan and his contract as an example when folks get all hung up on $, “highest paid” should equate to best player, etc. type arguments.

 

Not all criticism is the same but you tend to lump all the critics and criticism together.  As if you can’t see that we are quite a diverse group in what we see as problems for this franchise.  The one and only thing that unites the overwhelming majority of us is that it starts with Snyder who is a terrible owner and that Bruce is a loser not qualified to run a football team.  

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2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

McVay should throw us a bone and offer us a 1st for Williams.

Why -so Allen can turn it down???? This situation gets more infuriating by the week. We have such a moron running this organization. 

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2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Agree with this...not specifically for BFS but in general. We credit and praise other teams for doing things the "right way" when the Skins are not, and when the Skins start doing those same things should anyone be surprised when they also start getting credit? I'm not. It's the same thing as fans criticizing the Skins for doing things the majority of other franchises do. We most recently saw this with the whole "Haskins running the scout team" narrative.

 

Not all situations are the same. And some situations need to be handled differently from time to time. What's "right" for the Redskins, may not be right for the "Bills" and neither of those is "right" for the Patriots. It's a situational thing. Blue prints exist to mark them up to fit your build. 

 

The Redskins deserve some tremendous credit for how they handled Cousins at the end. The Redskins deserve credit for quite a few things, actually. 

 

But they also deserve to get blasted for the way they do general business.

 

And let's not forget, people with proven track records are given much larger benefits of the doubt and for longer than those who haven't proven anything.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You are acting as if everyone shares the same opinion on everything, when that’s not the case.

 

For example, I think Bruce is a career loser douchebag.  However, I’ve never been of the belief that firing Gruden and promoting McVay was an option or his fault for not seeing it and making it happen.  

 

I also don’t crush him for making Ryan Kerrigan the highest paid LB at the time.  I do use Kerrigan and his contract as an example when folks get all hung up on $, “highest paid” should equate to best player, etc. type arguments.

 

Not all criticism is the same but you tend to lump all the critics and criticism together.  As if you can’t see that we are quite a diverse group in what we see as problems for this franchise.  The one and only thing that unites the overwhelming majority of us is that it starts with Snyder who is a terrible owner and that Bruce is a loser not qualified to run a football team.  

 

well maybe this diverse group should spend some time talking about what criticisms are reasonable vs not and could actually agree on some things

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Not saying anything eye-opening here, but want to mention that we have already gotten a lot of value out of Trent. Nine years and seven pro-bowls. It's not like we're pot committed to a young player and need to recoup unrealized value. If he retired today it would still have been a great pick. Get whatever you can and move on. Geez.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

...

 

The Redskins deserve some tremendous credit for how they handled Cousins at the end. The Redskins deserve credit for quite a few things, actually. 

....

 

 

Credit? For what? -  being consistent??????  As in consistently effing up?

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23 minutes ago, carex said:

well maybe this diverse group should spend some time talking about what criticisms are reasonable vs not and could actually agree on some things

No offense, but I don't gather any of us are real concerned about presenting a unified front to you in regards to criticizing the organization.  

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9 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Credit? For what? -  being consistent??????  As in consistently effing up?

Lots of things...

 

Cousins for one. Letting continuity have a chance with Gruden. Drafting and prioritizing DL and to some, but lesser and less effective and extent, the offensive line. Relatively good with contracts (some holes there). 

 

Theres more they should be chastised for. But they have done some decent things at times. 

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9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No offense, but I don't gather any of us are real concerned about presenting a unified front to you in regards to criticizing the organization.  

 

it's less having a untied front as having a productive conversation when you talk as opposed to screaming into the void when you talk

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49 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Not all situations are the same. And some situations need to be handled differently from time to time. What's "right" for the Redskins, may not be right for the "Bills" and neither of those is "right" for the Patriots. It's a situational thing. Blue prints exist to mark them up to fit your build. 

 

The Redskins deserve some tremendous credit for how they handled Cousins at the end. The Redskins deserve credit for quite a few things, actually. 

 

But they also deserve to get blasted for the way they do general business.

 

And let's not forget, people with proven track records are given much larger benefits of the doubt and for longer than those who haven't proven anything.

 

 

 

Don't disagree with you there. But just for the record, the original point I was countering was that the Skins shouldn't get credit for doing what they're supposed to do...I was pointing out that our fans here on ES have been giving a lot of other teams credit for years for doing those same things.

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40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Cousins for one. 

 

No way.

 

We let the highest paid QB in the NFL walk for nothing. You dont get bonus points in the NFL because we made 1 right decision by not paying Kirk.

 

A competent franchise would've gotten at least a 1st round pick for Cousins even without a contract or any rights. Kirk was young, 100% healthy and coming into his supposed prime.

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Just now, Mooka said:

 

No way.

 

We let the highest paid QB in the NFL walk for nothing. You dont get bonus points in the NFL because we made 1 right decision by not paying Kirk.

 

A competent franchise would've gotten at least a 1st round pick for Cousins even without a contract or any rights. Kirk was young, 100% healthy and coming into his supposed prime.

 

They mishandled the beginning, but to be honest, I'm not sure what value Cousins had to begin with. But they didn't compound the problem. Which was new for this regime.

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Lots of things...

 

Cousins for one. Letting continuity have a chance with Gruden. Drafting and prioritizing DL and to some, but lesser and less effective and extent, the offensive line. Relatively good with contracts (some holes there). 

 

Theres more they should be chastised for. But they have done some decent things at times. 

 

Are you serious?  Every team is going to have perhaps a few good moves - even the Browns when they won 1 game in 2 seasons, but that doesn't mean that the team or FO is doing a good job.  The proof is in the end result, and the Redskins have been awful for a very, vey long time.  You have to place the majority of that blame on the owner & FO.  The others are hired & fired by them.

 

I am also confused how you believe that they handled Cousins correctly.  I thought it was a complete disaster. They are the only team stupid enough to tag a QB twice & then get rid of him.  One tag perhaps, but no way they should have given him the 2nd tag.  At that pt they should have either extended him long term or parted ways. The way they handled it made absolutely no sense.  They compounded this mistake by signing Smith to a long term contract that will haunt them for a while.  Sure - nobody knew that  he would get hurt, but what exactly did anyone see in him to warrant that money. They should have just rolled with McCoy or some other low cost option while they planned for their future QB.  Throwing Fuller in the deal just made things worse.

 

Bottom line - Allen & co are awful but sure they may have stumbled into some good moves.  This is proven by their track record.

 

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1 minute ago, dicksogj said:

 

Are you serious?  Every team is going to have perhaps a few good moves - even the Browns when they won 1 game in 2 seasons, but that doesn't mean that the team or FO is doing a good job.  The proof is in the end result, and the Redskins have been awful for a very, vey long time.  You have to place the majority of that blame on the owner & FO.  The others are hired & fired by them.

 

 

 

I am serious. Yes. If you're familiar with my post history, I despise our FO. I just have a hard time chastising them for all the stupid **** they do but not acknowledging when I agree with them. It's hypocritical and quite frankly, stupid.

 

Can you tell me one time, in my post history, that I've said the FO was doing a good job? Saying they did some okay things and they're doing a good job are two very, very different things.

 

I am also confused how you believe that they handled Cousins correctly.  I thought it was a complete disaster. They are the only team stupid enough to tag a QB twice & then get rid of him.  One tag perhaps, but no way they should have given him the 2nd tag.  At that pt they should have either extended him long term or parted ways. The way they handled it make absolutely no sense.  They compounded this mistake by signing Smith to a long term contract that will haunt them for a while.  Sure - nobody knew that  he would get hurt, but what exactly did anyone see in him to warrant that money. They should have just rolled with McCoy or some other low cost option & while they planned for their future QB.  Throwing Fuller in the deal just made things worse.

 

I think they handled the situation poorly. The team should have been rebuilding. But they took the path that they thought they were competitive. And in order to achieve that, Cousins was their best option for two years. The part that I believe they handled correctly, regardless of what I thought they should have done in the first place, was not signing him to a big money deal. He was never worth that. Ever.

 

I won't ever agree on the Smith stuff. Dude had us at 6-2. But where I agree with you is 100% that they shouldn't have signed him because they should have been in full rebuild mode. But they weren't, and I liked the guy they picked to try to salvage this non sense.

 

Bottom line - Allen & co are awful but sure they may have stumbled into some good moves.  This is proven by their track record.

 

Right there with ya.

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27 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

Are you serious?  Every team is going to have perhaps a few good moves - even the Browns when they won 1 game in 2 seasons, but that doesn't mean that the team or FO is doing a good job.  The proof is in the end result, and the Redskins have been awful for a very, vey long time.  You have to place the majority of that blame on the owner & FO.  The others are hired & fired by them.

 

I am also confused how you believe that they handled Cousins correctly.  I thought it was a complete disaster. They are the only team stupid enough to tag a QB twice & then get rid of him.  One tag perhaps, but no way they should have given him the 2nd tag.  At that pt they should have either extended him long term or parted ways. The way they handled it made absolutely no sense.  They compounded this mistake by signing Smith to a long term contract that will haunt them for a while.  Sure - nobody knew that  he would get hurt, but what exactly did anyone see in him to warrant that money. They should have just rolled with McCoy or some other low cost option while they planned for their future QB.  Throwing Fuller in the deal just made things worse.

 

Bottom line - Allen & co are awful but sure they may have stumbled into some good moves.  This is proven by their track record.

 

 

extending him long term would have been the mistake

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47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

They mishandled the beginning, but to be honest, I'm not sure what value Cousins had to begin with. But they didn't compound the problem. Which was new for this regime.

Really shouldn't of tagged him twice imo.  The only thing they got right was not signing him long term.  Still Redskins paid him long term money with 2 straight tags.

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9 minutes ago, Redd said:

Really shouldn't of tagged him twice imo.  The only thing they got right was not signing him long term.  Still Redskins paid him long term money with 2 straight tags.

 

When you’re as bad as the Skins FO has been, credit where it’s due. 

 

Not sure why people are trying to make this out like I’m praising the FO :ols:

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