Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Craig Hoffman on just now, he said asking around, its:

 

A.  He's upset at the medical staff

B.  He does want a bump in his contract

 

He says he gets the impression that both are in play.   The thing for me is if he wants a bump in his contract than clearly he's cool with staying.  

 

That's the part that makes me annoyed and also makes me question just how egregious the mistake was or how much Trent really was upset by it. 

 

If he's pissed and doesn't trust the doctors, then why would more money make him feel better about it? We are talking about cancer here. This seems much more like a situation where he decided he wanted more money and is now retro-fitting things into that argument so he can try to negotiate for it. 

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I'm with KDawg on this one........this move, whether orchestrated by the agent or by Williams himself, is deliberate. He had the surgery in February, so I don't want to hear that he somehow, all of a sudden decided to be pissed off with the team doctors now. He waited til after the draft, after free agency.........and now the team is in a terrible predicament, with few viable options on the market. As a fan, these kinds of moves diminish my respect for players. Without question, his health is most important, so I'm happy that the growth was not malignant. But to couple his supposed anger at the doctors with his demand for a new contract is too much for me. He got a contract extension in 2015 that pays him more than handsomely, so I'm not crying any tears over here for his financial situation. I like the guy and appreciate what he's done for the team, but this move just doesn't sit well with me.

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1 hour ago, WeThreeKingsRuleU said:

 

"Sorry, i shouldn't have said athletic trainers, team doctor would have been more appropriate."

 

No, that's not irony. I was talking about you claiming the other guy didn't know the team doctors' qualifications right after writing a post where you seem to know what those doctors were Thinking lol...

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36 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Right now 16-20 teams are interested in Trent, Houston is still interested despite drafting 2 tackles, including 1 in the first. Houston was willing to give up a substantial amount before the draft in 2018, but we weren’t listening to anything. At one point they were thinking/talking about Clowney + a first for Trent, though I don’t know if that offer was ever made or if it was just talk around their fo.

 

A decent tackle, another player, and a 2021 1st or 2nd in 2020 seems to be the average discussion around him. The timing is awful, obviously, and the details you’ve mentioned are things I went through last year when I was trying to convince others he needed to be traded if we were going to get the most out of the asset; now I’d still be surprised if we didn’t get a first, or value in line with one. A first & a player is about what I’d anticipate, though a 2020 first could be the hardest first rounder to get in draft history, the number of sophs that blew up, and the number of highly regarded QBs, has front offices more excited for this class than any most have been a part of. 

 

If he doesn’t do anything stupid & passes the physical, we can get a 2021 1st, *Lawrence draft*, for Trent .. I’d start there. 

 

 

Gifs make the ES gentlemen too emotional, it’s unsafe. 

 

Thanks. It would break my heart to see Trent in any other uniform, but if he truly wants to be gone I'd like to see us pick up another Strong LT prospect and a few picks. His salary relief might make things easier on the rest of the team as well.. 

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21 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

As a fan, these kinds of moves diminish my respect for players. 

 

If the story is true to the extent to which we think, Trent feels like the team put Ws and Ls over his life.   

 

I think whatever he chooses to do from that standpoint, exceeds the importance of our fandom, or our expectations of the season.  

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53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Craig Hoffman on just now, he said asking around, its:

 

A.  He's upset at the medical staff

B.  He does want a bump in his contract

 

He says he gets the impression that both are in play.   The thing for me is if he wants a bump in his contract than clearly he's cool with staying.  

 

It makes me think the initial reports could have (once again) been sensationalized, kinda like how Gruden was apparently just frustrated and pissed off that he was kept completely out of the free agency loop, that nobody was taking his input, and that he was only hearing about FA signings through media members. Or how Tomsula wanted out asap after the season ended. Or how Snyder was "taking over the 1st round of the draft" and forcing his football people to draft Haskins because his son went to high school with him.

 

The whole idea of Trent being pissed at the medical staff....and wanting a new contract...and wanting to stay...seems like a real possibility. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Now, the idea that Trent wanted to be traded because he was pissed at the way the medical staff handled his medical issues and that it was not about money seemed baffling to me...as I mentioned in another post he wouldn't have control over which team he was traded to so could easily end up with a team whose medical staff is no different (or even worse) than what he has here. And I had a hard time imagining Trent doing research on a bunch of teams' training and medical personnel before each visit if he were released and having that play as large roll in where he signed as money and chance at a Super Bowl ring lol...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Available is one thing... Morgan Moses is available most of the time as well. But I wouldn't say they're healthy. They were our best options at about 70% (Williams) and 60% (Moses), which is scary. But they were certainly not, and have not been, healthy. 

 

Have you wanted to move on from Williams previous to this news? 

 

No clue on percentage of health Williams was playing at and his overall level of play and ability to execute the game plan at a high level. I know he still moves like a WR and coaches and other NFL members feel he’s the best LT in the league. 

 

Side note: Moses needs to cut down on pre snap penalties, but is a solid pro. I expect the hope is for Christian to replace him in the next two years.

 

Quote

I'd say this is probably semi off-topic, but it might fit... Is Trent Williams, in his current iteration, a stud? To me, a stud is defined as a top 5 player at his position in the NFL. Trent Williams WAS a stud for a very, very large portion of his career. Now I'd say he falls out of that top 5. Probably still top 10, but is that still considered a stud? I'd argue it falls into, "Dude is phenomenal, but we have to be careful what we pay him".

 

I in no way study Trent’s game tape and compare that to other Lts in the game, resulting in some form of a spectrum of LTs, but from my fans view, he still moves at a level all to himself. I also go into each game confident he will win each matchup, no matter the opponent. 

 

57 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Right now 16-20 teams are interested in Trent, Houston is still interested despite drafting 2 tackles, including 1 in the first. Houston was willing to give up a substantial amount before the draft in 2018, but we weren’t listening to anything. At one point they were thinking/talking about Clowney + a first for Trent, though I don’t know if that offer was ever made or if it was just talk around their fo.

 

A decent tackle, another player, and a 2021 1st or 2nd in 2020 seems to be the average discussion around him. The timing is awful, obviously, and the details you’ve mentioned are things I went through last year when I was trying to convince others he needed to be traded if we were going to get the most out of the asset; now I’d still be surprised if we didn’t get a first, or value in line with one. A first & a player is about what I’d anticipate, though a 2020 first could be the hardest first rounder to get in draft history, the number of sophs that blew up, and the number of highly regarded QBs, has front offices more excited for this class than any most have been a part of. 

 

If he doesn’t do anything stupid & passes the physical, we can get a 2021 1st, *Lawrence draft*, for Trent .. I’d start there.

 

 

I absolutely value Trent, but your trade value is waaaaaay off, in my opinion. 

 

Maaaaybe a 2nd, but more likely a 3rd or 4th and a player type situation. 

39 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

I'm with KDawg on this one........this move, whether orchestrated by the agent or by Williams himself, is deliberate. He had the surgery in February, so I don't want to hear that he somehow, all of a sudden decided to be pissed off with the team doctors now. He waited til after the draft, after free agency.........and now the team is in a terrible predicament, with few viable options on the market. As a fan, these kinds of moves diminish my respect for players. Without question, his health is most important, so I'm happy that the growth was not malignant. But to couple his supposed anger at the doctors with his demand for a new contract is too much for me. He got a contract extension in 2015 that pays him more than handsomely, so I'm not crying any tears over here for his financial situation. I like the guy and appreciate what he's done for the team, but this move just doesn't sit well with me.

 

It’s on the team to be pro active with these kind of contracts. Absolutely no way Trent should have a contract with two years remaining and no guarantees. He’s a perennial pro bowl player. 

 

Fans and FOs must obliterate in their minds how things were done in recent history.  Reworking contracts in the later years will soon be the norm (not that it doesn’t take place, but instead of players having to force a team to increase levels of pay, the team be open and almost treat player as a free agent that’s under contract). 

 

The team cant consistently laud a player as the leader and elite talent and have sitting with a non guaranteed contract lol. Craziness! 

 

Its new business and players are using their leverage wisely. Not unlike the Transition that’s taken place in the NBA over last 10 years. 

Edited by wit33
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It's all 'bout the money.

 

Personally I think he deserves a raise, 3mil per year over the next 2 seasons is fair in the current market. I wouldn't commit to a major contract extension.

 

If he wants to take the piss for much longer, I'd happily accept him getting shipped out. 

 

Best thing to do, sort it out now.

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6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Have you wanted to move on from Williams previous to this news? 

 

 

 

Actually, yes. I’ve said it here. Not immediately, mind you. But I’ve been on the “find 71’s replacement ASAP because his health is deteriorating quickly” bandwagon.

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It's amazing that this team would have a deteriorating relationship with its best player. I mean, that's really only happened five or six times during Snyder's ownership.

 

Anyway, if there's one GM in the league who can trade an elite LT and then have a press conference where he assassinates the dude's character to a lapdog media, it's Bruce Allen. We are in good hands here, folks. Fear not.

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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Actually, yes. I’ve said it here. Not immediately, mind you. But I’ve been on the “find 71’s replacement ASAP because his health is deteriorating quickly” bandwagon.

 

What does his health is deteriorating quickly mean in your view? Not being a smart $&@. 

 

Once again, I’m open to someone schooling me if evidence has shown Williams isn’t still moving around at an elite level. 

 

Do you not think he’ll be athletic at 35? Obviously I do, but just trying to understand your thinking. Evidence is all over the NFL that guys who are less athletic than Trent can play T into mid 30s and get laid well to do so. 

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If he wants to come back or not, we should consider dangling him for a different LT.  Someone not as good, younger cheaper, hopefully more durable. Heck, even WITH him, I think we need to add a solid T as backup, for any win now ambitions.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Now, the idea that Trent wanted to be traded because he was pissed at the way the medical staff handled his medical issues and that it was not about money seemed baffling to me...as I mentioned in another post he wouldn't have control over which team he was traded to so could easily end up with a team whose medical staff is no different (or even worse) than what he has here. And I had a hard time imagining Trent doing research on a bunch of teams' training and medical personnel before each visit if he were released and having that play as large roll in where he signed as money and chance at a Super Bowl ring lol...

 

We have to keep in mind that the report that came out about Williams unhappy with the medical staff and wanting to be traded came from Jason La Canfora.

 

Anyone remembers his time as the Redskin beat reporter for the Washington (Com)Post, he wasn't the most reliable source.

 

I believe it was Art that had a thread that kept a running tally of his gaffes, errors, and mistakes, and it was a long, looonnnng list. :)

 

I take what La Canfora says and writes with a grain of salt. It doesn't mean what he wrote isn't true. It's just hard to fully believe it coming from him.

Edited by SkinsGuy
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22 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

What does his health is deteriorating quickly mean in your view? Not being a smart $&@. 

 

Once again, I’m open to someone schooling me if evidence has shown Williams isn’t still moving around at an elite level. 

 

Do you not think he’ll be athletic at 35? Obviously I do, but just trying to understand your thinking. Evidence is all over the NFL that guys who are less athletic than Trent can play T into mid 30s and get laid well to do so. 

 

Missing more and more time. Playing injured. If that isn't deteriorating health I don't know what is. Dude is banged up weekly.

 

I don't think he's moving as well as he used to. At all. I think he'll be athletic, but what does that have to do with injuries piling up? You don't get healthier as you age with the way football offseason training is structured unless you take significant time away. 

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Nothing's going to happen, Trent will be around but not playing much, we'll see mostly Keenum all year and try and stay relevant with a strong run game and defense, and then draft two OT's, a WR and a guard in next years draft, mark my words

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I don't know what you guys are talking about in here, I haven't read this thread in a day or so.  

 

I just came in here to post that my new favorite Redskins quote, 100% hands down is:

 

Quote

....but our doctors are very good. I know they did the best they can. I mean, they have plenty of degrees. 

 

I have been laughing my ass off for the past 5 minutes.  Thank you for the pick me up to head into the weekend, Jay Gruden!

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Craig Hoffman on just now, he said asking around, its:

 

A.  He's upset at the medical staff

B.  He does want a bump in his contract

 

He says he gets the impression that both are in play.   The thing for me is if he wants a bump in his contract than clearly he's cool with staying.  

 

I think that taking care of A makes B a parlay.  I think that if they don't do something regarding the medical staff, then I don't think a bump in contract would be on the table.  This is what I'm thinking, I've got no more sources than any of us.

When it comes to his timing, I don't see why he's getting **** for that.  His agent is in charge and it's in his best interests to come forward with maximum strength with maximum leverage.  That's just business.   He's using basic supply and demand.  I wish as a fan that he did it sooner if he were going to, but as a businessman I respect the approach.  Anything else would be stupid.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

It makes me think the initial reports could have (once again) been sensationalized, kinda like how Gruden was apparently just frustrated and pissed off that he was kept completely out of the free agency loop, that nobody was taking his input, and that he was only hearing about FA signings through media members. Or how Tomsula wanted out asap after the season ended. Or how Snyder was "taking over the 1st round of the draft" and forcing his football people to draft Haskins because his son went to high school with him.

 

The whole idea of Trent being pissed at the medical staff....and wanting a new contract...and wanting to stay...seems like a real possibility. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Now, the idea that Trent wanted to be traded because he was pissed at the way the medical staff handled his medical issues and that it was not about money seemed baffling to me...as I mentioned in another post he wouldn't have control over which team he was traded to so could easily end up with a team whose medical staff is no different (or even worse) than what he has here. And I had a hard time imagining Trent doing research on a bunch of teams' training and medical personnel before each visit if he were released and having that play as large roll in where he signed as money and chance at a Super Bowl ring lol...

 

The thing is the "media" and "reports" isn't just one person. And they can be easily exaggerated in retrospect.  For example the Tomusla story had context to it from some reporters -- some said he was leaning towards retirement if Manusky is let go.  Well, Manusky wasn't let go. Some said he "might".  That again doesn't mean for sure.   The Synder taking over the first round, was one reporter saying it, with other reporters saying Dan won't push a trade up but wants Haskins if he lands at their pick.  So it's not like most of these reporters had egg on their face on that one.

 

The locals disputed Russini's report about the draft.  As for the Jay report, that was the Junkies pushing that narrative.  Other reporters including Keim and Hoffman said Jay's input was being weighed in FA, he just doesn't have final say and didn't learn about the Collins signing until it was done.    It depends on what narrative you follow.  

 

As for Trent just about every local beat guy has said they think Trent and the team end up working things out.  It's Laconfora pushing he wants out no matter what but even he in a radio interview said they have time to work things out.  What's the outcome of this?  Who knows.  But if there is nothing to the story then Trent seems so far at least is willing to let it ride anyway because he and his agent aren't commenting on it.  So will see.

 

If you listen to 10 narratives from 10 different reporters, 1-2 are bound to be wrong.  But by osmosis it doesn't make the other 8-9 wrong, too just because their competitors in the business got it wrong.    On every story you mention there were multiple reporters who had the outcome correct or close enough.  So as for Trent, I'd presume the same thing.  We haven't seen anyone yet dispute that part of the soup of Trent's dissatisfaction (Jay himself didn't dispute it) with the medical staff is part of the soup.  There is some disagreement among the ones covering the story about whether the contract is part of the soup.  Some saying yes, some saying no.

 

And if we lumping the media all together in one brush as if they are all the same.  Then if Trent really is insisting on a trade then the media will be proven wrong.  Not the reverse of that.  Considering if anything is far as I can tell the predominant narrative by most is the Redskins aren't trading Trent and Trent will work things out with the team when its all said and done.  The Trent wants out or else narrative is a Laconfora narrative backed by one radio personality.

  

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Missing more and more time. Playing injured. If that isn't deteriorating health I don't know what is. Dude is banged up weekly.

 

I don't think he's moving as well as he used to. At all. I think he'll be athletic, but what does that have to do with injuries piling up? You don't get healthier as you age with the way football offseason training is structured unless you take significant time away. 

 

We’re certainly locked in on perceived value of Trent over next few years lol

 

Trent was shutdown in 2017, due to being out of playoff contention. If playoffs were in the picture he was available and I believe 2016 was a thumb or hand injury. Nothing too serious over his career, but many dings though, no running from that. 

 

Admittedly, I’m bias towards elite talent and have become okay with expecting players to miss time. Obviously there has to be a line drawn, but Trent is available much more than not. 

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one thing is clear.. when the player says its not about the money, it ALWAYS is.

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13 hours ago, FrFan said:

I wish you a strong relentless will, and a full recovery without setback. Hail !

Thank you brother,much appreciated from me and my family 

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Bruce is really putting a lot of info out there for the fan base.  "He knows the truth".  Great Bruce!  We all feel MUCH better now!!!  :bye:

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Bruce did a lot of deflecting there. And never once said “he’ll be here” or “we’ll get this worked out”. 

 

My feeling now is that this divide is not recoverable. Hope I’m wrong. 

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