!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[JaxJoe]

2 hours ago, ntotoro said:

 

If I remember correctly, there was a rash of MRSA outbreaks with one or two teams a few years ago. That's serious. Deadly, even. I realize the sportsball media in the DMV looooooooves to pile on the 'Skins, but a year ago Colt was the "in case of emergency break glass" QB and now they're saying "OMG OUR SAVIOR IS OUT DAN SNYDER MUST DIE!!!!!!1111"

 

In other words, it's more foolishness on their part.

The MRSA and Staph outbreaks were related to the artificial turf and the rubber pellets used and is especially resident in rubber oval tracks. I volunteered to do a trade study for my kid’s school on exploring playing surfaces to replace the existing grass. Turns out schools and colleges across the country are removing tracks and fields that use rubber. Or, spending big bucks on periodic decontamination treatments. 

[ntotoro]

1 minute ago, JaxJoe said:

The MRSA and Staph outbreaks were related to the artificial turf and the rubber pellets used and is especially resident in rubber oval tracks. I volunteered to do a trade study for my kid’s school on exploring playing surfaces to replace the existing grass. Turns out schools and colleges across the country are removing tracks and fields that use rubber. Or, spending big bucks on periodic decontamination treatments. 

 

Is it easier to remediate or remove that stuff? I can't even tell you how many times I've seen high schools with that stuff on their tracks.

[hatchetwound]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Shanny played Cerrato like a fiddle more than once.  It became a running joke on the board back then which is Vinny don't take Shanny's call! 😀  Back then they had such an odd disregard for any draft pick that wasn't a first rounder.  Throwing in a 2nd rounder because Denver threatened to trade Portis to Dallas (per Schefter) seems soooo Vinny and Dan. 

 

That trade is considered by many as one of the worst trades made in this century.  I don't know if I'd go as far as that. But IMO it was bad.  It came off to me as the perfect marriage of Gibbs at the time still married to his 80s style offenses and Cerrato/Dan's bizarre disregard for non first round picks.  If they are willing to give up 2 high picks for Duckett and Lloyd what's the big deal about throwing a 2nd for a player of Portis' caliber?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/758190-nfltrade-history-the-9-worst-trades-of-the-2000s#slide1 

Lets see, off the top of my head:

1) The Champ Trade

2) He was involved with the TJ Duckett Trade

3) He stole $35 million between 2010 and 2013

 

I feel like I'm forgetting one

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

Lets see, off the top of my head:

1) The Champ Trade

2) He was involved with the TJ Duckett Trade

3) He stole $35 million between 2010 and 2013

 

I feel like I'm forgetting one

 

Yeah me too, Champ and Duckett I know for sure.  Even if its just those 2, that was plenty.  😀

 

This is a good take of Vinny's worse moves

https://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2012/11/06/top-20-of-vinny-cerratos-worst-personnel-moves/

[RandyHolt]

I am sure I am not alone in saying I always hated rubber!

 

s.

[ntotoro]

9 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

Lets see, off the top of my head:

1) The Champ Trade

2) He was involved with the TJ Duckett Trade

3) He stole $35 million between 2010 and 2013

 

I feel like I'm forgetting one

 

Not necessarily a move, but basically saying that Chris Samuels needed to rub some dirt on his spinal stenosis and get back on it.

[JaxJoe]

10 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

Is it easier to remediate or remove that stuff? I can't even tell you how many times I've seen high schools with that stuff on their tracks.

My kids’ school doesn’t have a rubber track so I didn’t ask. Outdoor surfaces exposed to the sun aren’t as risky as indoors.  Turns out there are dozens maybe hundreds of companies that install playgrounds and athletic fields. It’s a big business involving tens and hundreds of thousands per job.  I corresponded with several here in north Florida and inquired why many of the artificial surfaces had mrsa resistant labels and they explained to me how virus and bacteria can survive a long time and infect another person who has an open wound. They have special detergents they’ll sell you and recommend  periodic treatment; especially spot treatment where it is known that blood has been exposed. But most schools don’t do this as it is slow and labor intensive. Sunlight actually helps retard the spread of diseases so the infections are more prevalent in indoor facilities. It sounded like these companies were fading out rubber surfaces as a recommendation. Maybe there’s too much of a liability? Artificial turf blades of grass are ok but not the rubber pellets used as shock absorption are not. 

 

Sorry, loooong answer. 

[RandyHolt]

Yep JJ knows what kills MRSA. Heat. HOT HOT HOT - I think direct sun will do the trick.  Indoors, I know hot steam works wonders on helping hospitals decontaminate.   I think Europe took the lead there as we were still working bleach rubs with rubber gloves.  Heat working to kill MRSA explains why the outdoor surfaces aren't as vulnerable as indoors. And, possible rain giving everything a good rinse.

[ntotoro]

22 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

Sorry, loooong answer. 

 

But well appreciated... 😀

[Califan007 The Constipated]

On 8/20/2019 at 5:19 AM, goskins10 said:

 Again, it does not really matter if the athletic staff has actually done anything wrong. There is enough of a perception that you should make a change.

 

 

But if they are not doing anything wrong, what do you change? And if you're changing something that is being performed correctly, do you risk the reality that things might end up getting worse? Even still, what if it leads to a lengthy period of players continuing to complain and the FO trying to figure out what else they can revise and change to give them the perception that things are better, even if they are not? And for all we know, maybe they have...but it's harder to change perceptions when you're not actually fixing or correcting something because it's flawed, you're just finding ways to placate people.

 

Me personally, I abhor changing things that are being done correctly in order to try and change perceptions. I'd rather explain why people's perceptions are wrong than cater to those perceptions, especially when it comes to health issues. 

 

I don't know if anyone has owned their own business before, but when you go from employee to owner, the perception of everything changes drastically. What seemed like a no-brainer as an employee is suddenly far more complex when you're the owner. As an employee, we all felt that ownership should be paying more attention to our complaints. When I became owner, it was necessary to not give a **** about a lot of complaints because I understood the reality behind the scenes that my employees did not. A lot of things would need to continue as-is, even if my employees didn't like it. Even something seemingly as simple as paying them...to employees, all I had to do was sign their checks. As the owner, I had to deal with unions, bank policies, and the U.S. government first in order to get to the point where I could sign their checks. A ****load of hoop-jumping had to occur twice a month, every month of the year, before they could be paid. I had to find clever ways of giving raises to those who deserved them. I had to fly all over the country and figure out who was in charge in order to speed up having my invoices paid. I had to understand the hierarchy of military bases and proper military etiquette. I had to adhere to an established union contract that none of the employees understood or had even read. All of these things were necessary, and in place, for various reasons. I don't even wanna imagine what complexities would have been in place if I were also providing health services directly to my employees.

 

Again, I have no clue whatsoever what Trent's exact complaint is nor whether or not it's valid...nor do I know what the general complaints about the athletic training staff have been and whether or not it is something unique to the Skins or prevalent across the league...everyone remembers Moses saying he was glad someone of Trent's stature was standing up for whatever he is standing up for, but almost nobody remembers he also said that it's not just with the Redskins. Moses pretty much flat-out said this isn't unique to the team. I'm sure players talk to one another across franchises and it could be that athletic training staffs across the NFL have the same SOP and players across the NFL have the same complaints (which if so, explains why I thought Trent asking for a trade wasn't very smart and would have been based more on emotion than logic...in that scenario being traded wouldn't change anything for him). For all we know, this could be something that has to be corrected through the CBA and the players union to guarantee a uniformity of quality of healthcare for all players. Or it could be handled individually through each team. I don't know. Hell, I don't even know the specifics of what the athletic training staff does lol...I know what thesubmittedone said in his posts and that hierarchy/chain of command sounds logical to me.

 

I can concoct 12 different scenarios that give 12 different arguments as to who--if anyone--could be blamed for whatever occurred, and they would all be valid. I'm able to do that because I don't know what actually occurred so I have to speculate--I'm damn good at speculating lol--and because I have zero desire to immediately find someone to blame for Trent not being here.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Again, I have no clue whatsoever what Trent's exact complaint is nor whether or not it's valid...nor do I know what the general complaints about the athletic training staff have been and whether or not it is something unique to the Skins or prevalent across the league...everyone remembers Moses saying he was glad someone of Trent's statue was standing up for whatever he is standing up for, but almost nobody remembers he also said that it's not just with the Redskins.

 

 

No doubt the vibe on this issue is that it extends to other teams, too.   Without knowing the where and why, the narrative seems to be something that overlaps the idea that the athletic training staff and players have conflicting agendas.  Or so is the perception with some players.

 

I run my own business, too and part of that business overlaps with media relations.  And perception can certainly bring real problems.  This rest isn't directed your way but I am using the perception concept to make a point.  Sometimes you have to address things heads on even if you think it's unfair.  And I've done it multiple times including even dealing with the pesky media.  I am also in the business where there are wins and loses (albeit not in sports) and the media covers it extensively.  And part of the reason why I got no sympathy for Dan-Bruce on the media front is because I can relate at least some from an apples to apples stand point. 

 

I've studied media relations and eons ago served as a press secretary.  Media perceptions of a company or a person aren't typically based on random circumstance that is just inflicted on them which you have no influence over. There is a reason why big corporations have a department focused just on this thing.     Companies especially public ones need to manage the perception game because it directly effects their bottom line.    

 

And there is plenty of grey and nuance in the perception game.  For example, does it help Dan with some for example that he is insistent on keeping the name?  Nope.  Do I think that is purely why he gets bad press?  Not at all.  That's ridiculous to me.  There are some hung up on the name but that isn't the key thing he gets hit on.  I got no doubt if Dan spent some time with some reporters and charmed them they way he used to like to do with FA's -- he'd get a much easier ride.  Heck Stephen Smith on First Take had Bruce on this year on his show and Smith talked about how Dan took him to dinner and in effect charmed him -- and Smith had the gloves off the whole time in that interview.  That's not IMO a coincidence. 

 

Like I've said Jay is a likable and charming guy, I don't think its coincidence that reporters like him.  I had a reporter slam me multiple times unfairly.  I didn't feel like taking the dude out to lunch after that but I did.  And I've not been slammed once (knock on wood from said reporter since).  There is a game to work the media perception wise.    And if you don't play it, then you are making the decision that you are comfortable that the product you put out might not be helped by the press.  Dan has the right to make that decision but likewise IMO has no reason to complain when he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt considering he made the decision not to care or make it a priority as to managing the press. 

 

So let's circle this back to the medical situation.  If their training staff are great and or Trent is delusional or a greedy dude, etc --  and they internally are stewing about the perception game happening with this...the odds might be that the media isn't going to help them with this if they don't have good relationship with them.  So then they are at the mercy to circumstance and narratives that people can piece together and turn it into their own conclusions.  Stuff that might be purely circumstantial like them leading the league in injuries two years in a row and there being a running narrative about their potential starting QB having an injury setback among other players having setbacks in their recovery this off season.  And like I said, it all could be purely circumstantial.  I got no idea one way or another. 

 

Of course, I doubt Dan and Bruce would purposely hire or endorse an incompetent training staff.  So I don't blame them for what's happening on that front.  As I've mentioned many times I want to trade Trent regardless.  I don't have a strong opinion as to who is at fault.  But I'll keep doubling down on the idea that i have no sympathy for their issues with the media.  I don't know who manages media relations over there but I'll just say my 2 cents is they need a major overhaul as to how they handle it.   I'd be fired by my client if they were getting hammered the way the Redskins often do and that firing would be justified.   I've had many clients and I never had one conversation where we felt that we were totally at the mercy of the media where we had no control to change it.  

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

But if they are not doing anything wrong, what do you change? And if you're changing something that is being performed correctly, do you risk the reality that things might end up getting worse? Even still, what if it leads to a lengthy period of players continuing to complain and the FO trying to figure out what else they can revise and change to give them the perception that things are better, even if they are not? And for all we know, maybe they have...but it's harder to change perceptions when you're not actually fixing or correcting something because it's flawed, you're just finding ways to placate people.

 

Me personally, I abhor changing things that are being done correctly in order to try and change perceptions. I'd rather explain why people's perceptions are wrong than cater to those perceptions, especially when it comes to health issues. 

 

 

Edit

 

 

 

I get this argument and actually agree to a point. I don't want to make a change for the sake of change. But as I said there is enough smoke about them that the perception - fair or not - is that there is a problem. At the very least they have lost the trust of some of the players. So that means they are not doing their job in some capacity. 

 

If it's all just the players whining - and I am in no way saying that's not possible - then this will be proven out when they start ****ing about the next staff brought in. But at least for me I have heard enough to believe there is some kind of issue there. 

 

I will say I do not think this is some diabolical plan by the FO to purposefully hire incompetent people as trainers - for what to save money? That is a really huge stretch, one I am not trying to make at all. It may be misplaced faith or it may just not be a good fit with the players. But when a relationship like that sours it's hard to get it back. You have to change some of the people. And sorry, I am changing the Athletic Trainers before changing the players. 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

5 hours ago, JaxJoe said:

The MRSA and Staph outbreaks were related to the artificial turf and the rubber pellets used and is especially resident in rubber oval tracks. I volunteered to do a trade study for my kid’s school on exploring playing surfaces to replace the existing grass. Turns out schools and colleges across the country are removing tracks and fields that use rubber. Or, spending big bucks on periodic decontamination treatments. 

Very interesting, Let me ask you though, I thought all that rubber on turf and on tracks was being replaced for cancer scares (which is even worse obviously). I forgot which university or highschool it was where all the girls on the soccer team which played on some sort of turf that was made from tire rubber were actually ingesting little bits of the field into their lungs and getting cancer. Really terrible story. 

[RandyHolt]

I remember seeing that black crap flying out of the turf decades ago.

 

Whose ****ing dumbass idea was it to spread shredded car tires onto sports fields? It's inevitable of course that it is getting into players mouths. And to no ones surprise inadvertently ingested by young children.  Hell i bet infants or toddlers on there on family day were eating it proper.

 

I can only imagine what the next generation turf component will be.  When in doubt bet on plastic.

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My 2 cents on this relating to the Redskins.

Only you could write War and Peace after saying “my 2 cents.”

 

 

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Why would Denver give up more for a guy that they would have gotten for free in free agency? Champ Bailey was gone. Everyone knew it. The fact that we got anything for him was a great move. Vinny and Gibbs, as a GM duo, messed some things up. This wasn't one of those things.

Bailey wasn’t gone at alll.  He was under contract.  He couldn’t just leave.  Since he couldn’t leave, you should maximize the value of your asset. 

 

That wasnt done.  Not even remotely

[LetThePointsSoar]

What the bloody **** HAPPENED to this thread?!?  😂😂

 

Any real TW news at all yet? 

[RandyHolt]

Here's a little hint. Don't read the threat title NEW DEVELOPMENT!!!1! and expect to see a new development whenever there is a new post. It helps keeps expectations in check.  It's a terrible long term thread name. 

 

Not until Jay and Doug sit down with Trent, or Bruce trades him, can we expect a new development.  Or, maybe a lawsuit that will last 4 years #AmericanLaw

 

As Jerry would say, He's gone, and nothings going to bring him back.

[owa]

Personally, I wish they'd trade Trent and AP.  At their age, they belong on contenders and I don't see us as contenders this year.  While they are probably our 2 best players, what is the point of them playing and taking away snaps from younger players.  They may stabilize us a bit but like others have suggested in the QB thread, what does it matter if we're 6-10 vs 3-13 except for better draft position.  Don't get me wrong, AP was one of the bright spots last year and it was great to see someone average more that 0.1 yards per carry and actually score a TD if he broke one open instead of being dragged down from behind like our other players.  But why bother, they're on the downside of their career and we have young players that could benefit from the work.  With QB, it is different since they have to master so much so I'm willing to wait a few games for Haskins but Trent and Adrian...they need to be moved to contenders.   Trade both and get younger players or draft picks for them while we can.

[owa]

Also, as I've said before I think our line is/was over-rated.  I think it looked good with Cousins because he appeared to make up his mind who to throw to before the snap.  He got the ball out really quickly.  With anyone else, it seemed like to me that we struggled in protection so what we've seen this preseason is more like what I consider the norm.  The QB has to get rid of it quickly or else the rush will get to him.  Trent may be better, even when hurt, but it doesn't seem that much different to me.  The QB has to get rid of it quickly or they get killed.  Which brings up another question, why is it that other teams seem to be able to have a picnic behind the line before we get pressure on them. I can't figure out if it is me being judgmental or what but it seems like other teams have all day to throw against us but we have a few milliseconds.  Is it our pass rush or something else?

[TK]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Here's a little hint. Don't read the threat title NEW DEVELOPMENT!!!1! and expect to see a new development whenever there is a new post. It helps keeps expectations in check.  It's a terrible long term thread name. 

Fixed  

[Malapropismic Depository]

Old Development ; New Speculations and New Guesses and New Un-verified Reports from Un-named Sources.

[RandyHolt]

Arrested Development: ES Med staff Detained amid Rampant Member Allegations of unwanted METs

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 hours ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

What the bloody **** HAPPENED to this thread?!?  😂😂

 

Any real TW news at all yet? 

 

Curious, how long have you been away ? 😁

[LetThePointsSoar]

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Curious, how long have you been away ? 😁

 

Not that long, and let's face it, never longer than 12 hours like most of us addicts even during the offseason.  Just cracked up at HOW far off topic we got, lol. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I Miss Trent! It’s gonna really suck to not have him starting  week 1. But I’ve resigned to the likelihood he is a goner. 😞 Also hope we bring home the goods on a trade.