!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[bakedtater1]

2 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

2. Avoid throwing Haskins out there to the wolves until later in the season. Theres no reason for it.

 

What if he's a gem?..I'm completely behind him getting things down first, but just what if?..what if we have a gem that's ready to shine now?

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

I see that you all are finally starting to come around...

 

Its obvious that we arent a contender. Haskins isnt ready yet. Our line is in shambles. And we are paying tens of millions to a guy who more than likely wont play again. Luckily for us, we are actually in the drivers seat for the final chapter of a franchise defining rebuild. Its unfortunate that this means another year older for guys like Kerrigan, but thats just how it is. The goal of this season should be:

 

1. Get Sweat, Collins, Moreland up to speed and figure out were we are regarding the lb position

2. Avoid throwing Haskins out there to the wolves until later in the season. Theres no reason for it.

3. Wait until the end of August and get the maximum return on a top 3 LT in the game. ( imo that is a 1st and 3rd)

4. Wait until the second half of the year to start working in Guice and Love

5. Drive up the value of Doctson. We wont be able to trade him, but a compensation pick might be nice.

6. Lock down Sherf

 

It is the right time to move on from Trent. He still has a ton of value, and we arent a contender. Its right for both parties to make the move. If we are terrible this year it sets us up for an incredible situation. The top end of the draft could include Herbert, Fromme, Tua, and Lawrence. If we are high, we could sell that pick and get a kings ransom. Coming out of the 2020 draft with Jerry Jeudy and Tristan Wirfs would cap the greatest 4-year draft plan in decades.

Spot on although I would incorporate Guice early on only because we still need to know what we have with him. 

[Skin'emAlive]

18 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

What if he's a gem?..I'm completely behind him getting things down first, but just what if?..what if we have a gem that's ready to shine now?

 

If he's a gem then that makes this plan even better. Trent has maybe 2 years of prime level play left in him. He hasnt been readily available for us for the past 3. In that time we have lost 3 quarterbacks to huge injuries, and the guy who replaced him (Ty) is no longer here. Dont take that risk. Move it along slowly, let him learn the nuances of the game, and then bring him in during the second half of the year. Both Haskins and the organization would be better for it.

 

Right now our team is potentially stacked with 4 good running backs, a qb of the future, and a few other complimentary pieces. Play it smart, draft high for a mauler LT that can move the ball on the ground, a legitmate #1 WR, and find a two-way blocking TE who can catch in the 3rd. That can be accomplished within a year. We are about to be set everywhere.

[sportjunkie07]

38 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Right now our team is potentially stacked with 4 good running backs, a qb of the future, and a few other complimentary pieces. Play it smart, draft high for a mauler LT that can move the ball on the ground, a legitmate #1 WR, and find a two-way blocking TE who can catch in the 3rd. That can be accomplished within a year. We are about to be set everywhere.

Chris Thompson is injury prone and must be used sparingly. He is a free agent next year. 

 

AP will be 35 next year in his last year with us.

 

Guice is coming off a major injury and hasnt proven himself in the nfl.

 

Love had a major injury, probably won't play this year and has not proven himself in the nfl.  

 

There is certainly some potential at the rb position but saying we are stacked at rb is a little much. 

 

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, rabidskin said:

.  I am sure Trent wants to leave, but think what this will start when you hear Kerrigan, Shreff, Payne, Allen all start saying the same when their contracts are almost up.  This will effect all of our players...

You made some good points. I think a lot of us would want Trent back if he wanted to play here. Some would still wish to cash in on his perceived value and get even more building blocks for the future.

 

I only quoted the above two sentences for a particular reason. You are correct, we have think about what effect caving to Trents $$$ demands (if they even exist) will have on the future, What would happen if every good player we have on our team starts demanding more money while still under contract?? If the issue is solely money, he agreed to a contract already.

[sportjunkie07]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

LDan has a 20 year sample size.  We have an idea of what he likes to do.  We have an idea of how his way works or doesn't.  

He's actually changed a lot. 

 

Gone are the days of trading picks away for nothing, winning free agency every year by overpaying, and constant meddling. 

 

Snyder has gotten more patient, but he still lacks vision. The Alex Smith trade was mind boggling. 

 

I don't think we should've drafted a qb this year but we kinda fell into haskins so I can't blame them. The old Snyder would've given up next year's first for haskins. 

 

He's getting better but still has a way to go. 

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

He's actually changed a lot. 

 

Gone are the days of trading picks away for nothing, winning free agency every year by overpaying, and constant meddling. 

 

Snyder has gotten more patient, but he still lacks vision. The Alex Smith trade was mind boggling. 

 

I don't think we should've drafted a qb this year but we kinda fell into haskins so I can't blame them. The old Snyder would've given up next year's first for haskins. 

 

He's getting better but still has a way to go. 

 

The Alex trade was par for the course.  Every so many years we seem to have an aggressive move, as to trading picks for a QB.  That Alex trade wasn't something out of nowhere.   It's the third time he's traded for a veteran 34 year old QB. 

 

But agree as to the emphasis on the draft.  The not trading picks part I acknowledged.  They also don't backload contracts the way they once did.  That's also an improvement.  But they still IMO aren't hot in FA it's just for different reasons now.   

 

As for him not interfering, it depends on what narrative you believe since there is no way to know for sure.  Some say he interferes plenty but just does it hidden by Bruce doing his bidding and Bruce takes the bullets for him.  The other narrative is that Dan trusts Bruce and Bruce is really running things with little interference from Dan.  If I had to guess myself, I'd say the narrative is somewhere in between those two narratives.  But there is no way to know.  We can only guess.  Dan has gotten even more reclusive in recent years. 

 

As for Haskins, what some have said is Dan was very afraid of repeating the RG3 mistake as for trading picks, etc.  So I'd guess he's an easy mark on that front to not repeat that one.  That's a guess, too.  I don't think anyone of us can say with any confidence whether Dan interferes or not since there is no way to know. On the Haskins narrative there were plenty who said that Dan was involved but a compromise was made.  Maybe that's wrong.  Maybe that's right.  No way to know.  Ditto the episode early this year with the defensive coordinators where multiple people said Dan orchestrated it. 

 

But regardless, my point was that obtaining high draft picks for a veteran as opposed to trading them away would be a new thing for Dan's era.  I'd feel that way even if I thought Dan's has become a rock star owner in every other way.    I am not saying that's what you mean.  I am just saying my point about getting a high pick in the draft isn't about a macro point about Dan but its a micro point about building a winner.  And it would be a new thing for Dan.   It doesn't bother me at all that its not how we've rolled in the past.   I see that as a good thing not a bad thing. 

[sportjunkie07]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But regardless, my point was that obtaining high draft picks for a veteran as opposed to trading them away would be a new thing for Dan's era.  I'd feel that way even if Dan's has become a rock star owner in every other way. 

That would certainly be great. We haven't seemed capable of offloading assets for value. I feel that is mostly a Bruce ego thing though. 

 

I agree that they do make an agressive qb move every 4 years or so but they are getting more responsible in doing so imo. 

 

The alex smith trade was still more responsible than what we did for mcnabb and rg3

 

It just happened that he had a career ending injury. I hated the trade from the get go but there was some really bad luck there too. That kind of injury with a massive contract just signed is unprecedented in the nfl. 

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

That would certainly be great. We haven't seemed capable of offloading assets for value. I feel that is mostly a Bruce ego thing though. 

 

I agree that they do make an agressive qb move every 4 years or so but they are getting more responsible in doing so imo. 

 

The alex smith trade was still more responsible than what we did for mcnabb and rg3

 

It just happened that he had a career ending injury. I hated the trade from the get go but there was some really bad luck there too. That kind of injury with a massive contract just signed is unprecedented in the nfl. 

 

I liked the McNabb and RG3 trades at the time but I wasn't as jaded then. 😀  I don't see much of a difference in the Alex-McNabb trades personally.  Both QBs were about the same age.  The compensation in effect was similar albeit one included a young player in the mix and the other was straight picks.   Both dudes close to their mid 30s who relied a bit on their legs. Brunell too ironically.  Alex coming off of a career year with mega weapons.    I think Alex has a much better makeup than McNabb -- intangibles, etc.  Other that that, neither guy IMO was poised to take the team to the SB.  So what's the point?  9-7?    

 

I'd take the 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 runs much easier if it was with a young QB at the helm because you can argue that the young QB would develop and grow.  But a 34-36 year old isn't growing as a QB.  Those are win now moves.  I hated the Alex trade.  Even before they made the trade I specifically laid out trading for him would be worse case scenario.  I didn't think they were going anywhere with him at the helm last season, they were 6-4 and could have easily been 5-5.  That Tampa win was a fluke.  The first time a team has ever won when they were out gained to that degree, if I recall Tampa won time of possession, too.  Tampa with over 500 yards and we had about half of that.  But Tampa missed easy field goals, and we recovered 4 turnovers in the red zone.  Alex had almost zip to do with that win.   But even if I played along, maybe they would have snuck into the playoffs at 9-7.  I am tired of 9-7 being the high bar.

 

But anyway to bring some sunshine to the conversation.  I think maybe Haskins can take us out of the wilderness.  And if he does, I do think the rest of the roster has some nice building blocks.   If Haskins is the goods and they are loaded with picks in the 2020 draft -- I'll be at my height of optimism 2012 style.  But I think unlike 2012, they can sustain some success.  As I've said on this thread and in other places, I do think a franchise QB would likely override Dan's weaknesses as an owner.   Most of Dan's critics I noticed disagree with me on that point.  They think Dan will always screw it up.  I understand the sentiment.  But I've said before I see Dan sort of as a mini George Steinbrenner.  George couldn't get out of his own way for about 15 years or so -- but then all of a sudden the Yankees got good and that seemed to calm him down and trust his people.  Hoping for the same with Dan.      

 

Bringing this back to Trent.  I do think if they end up with a first rounder for him and Haskins ends up the goods -- if Kyle does his magic in the draft then they might be able to finally make a run at a SB versus the 9-7, 10-6, one and done in the playoffs drill every 4 years or so. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, carex said:

 

But other teams have done it?  Other teams didn't have Dan Snyder as an owner and for you all that should make that idea not work

Everyone is well aware that Dan isn’t going anywhere.  So the next best thing to hope for is a shakeup of the guys under him.  There are actually some folks here with legit clout, both as coaches and the FO, in KOC and KS.  The absolute best thing that could happen is for the Skins to acquire an additional 1st round pick for the 2020 draft and let someone who actually knows how to build a football team make the selections, and also determine who is the best head coach to coach them.  If that’s Jay, it’s Jay.  If it’s KOC, just the same.  If it’s someone else entirely so be it.  

 

Yes, Dan will always be here.  Yes, it’s entirely possible he could select another doozy for him to be comfortable around vs. someone legit.  But that is a chance we should all be willing to take because the current structure will not yield the type of positive results we are looking for.  

[carex]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked the McNabb and RG3 trades at the time but I wasn't as jaded then. 😀  I don't see much of a difference in the Alex-McNabb trades personally.  Both QBs were about the same age.  The compensation in effect was similar albeit one included a young player in the mix and the other was straight picks.   Both dudes close to their mid 30s who relied a bit on their legs. Brunell too ironically.  Alex coming off of a career year with mega weapons.    I think Alex has a much better makeup than McNabb -- intangibles, etc.  Other that that, neither guy IMO was poised to take the team to the SB.  So what's the point?  9-7?    

 

I'd take the 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 runs much easier if it was with a young QB at the helm because you can argue that the young QB would develop and grow.  But a 34-36 year old isn't growing as a QB.  Those are win now moves.  I hated the Alex trade.  Even before they made the trade I specifically laid out trading for him would be worse case scenario.  I didn't think they were going anywhere with him at the helm last season, they were 6-4 and could have easily been 5-5.  That Tampa win was a fluke.  The first time a team has ever won when they were out gained to that degree, if I recall Tampa won time of possession, too.  Tampa with over 500 yards and we had about half of that.  But Tampa missed easy field goals, and we recovered 4 turnovers in the red zone.  Alex had almost zip to do with that win.   But even if I played along, maybe they would have snuck into the playoffs at 9-7.  I am tired of 9-7 being the high bar.

 

But anyway to bring some sunshine to the conversation.  I think maybe Haskins can take us out of the wilderness.  And if he does, I do think the rest of the roster has some nice building blocks.   If Haskins is the goods and they are loaded with picks in the 2020 draft -- I'll be at my height of optimism 2012 style.  But I think unlike 2012, they can sustain some success.  As I've said on this thread and in other places, I do think a franchise QB would likely override Dan's weaknesses as an owner.   Most of Dan's critics I noticed disagree with me on that point.  They think Dan will always screw it up.  I understand the sentiment.  But I've said before I see Dan sort of as a mini George Steinbrenner.  George couldn't get out of his own way for about 15 years or so -- but then all of a sudden the Yankees got good and that seemed to calm him down and trust his people.  Hoping for the same with Dan.      

 

Bringing this back to Trent.  I do think if they end up with a first rounder for him and Haskins ends up the goods -- if Kyle does his magic in the draft then they might be able to finally make a run at a SB versus the 9-7, 10-6, one and done in the playoffs drill every 4 years or so. 

 

I feel that the Redskins FO look at those 7 and 8 win seasons with key players missing hundreds of games combined and think "if they stay healthy and have a good enough QB then that should be worth two or three more games"

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I feel that the Redskins FO look at those 7 and 8 win seasons with key players missing hundreds of games combined and think "if they stay healthy and have a good enough QB then that should be worth two or three more games"

 

They indeed might think that in part because it saves jobs and I don't blame them for that.  My sights are higher than that.    Dan lived through the 80s glory years.  Hard for me to imagine after 20 years that doing the occasional 9-7, 10-6 thing is what floats his boat.  

 

It starts with a franchise QB.  If Haskins ends up being the goods.  Then they likely can aim higher than 9-7, 10-6 being the high water mark.   

[SkinsFTW]

On 8/17/2019 at 4:14 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This draft looks crazy stacked at LT and WR.   This team is due for some good luck.  Just by chance this is the perfect time for this Trent thing.  

 

Which means that everybody should know that the Redskins will not get anything for him and if they do it'll amount to nothing but hype and continued mediocrity, at best.

 

Dan E. L. Snyder-Super Genius

[carex]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They indeed might think that in part because it saves jobs and I don't blame them for that.  My sights are higher than that.    Dan lived through the 80s glory years.  Hard for me to imagine after 20 years that doing the occasional 9-7, 10-6 thing is what floats his boat.  

 

It starts with a franchise QB.  If Haskins ends up being the goods.  Then they likely can aim higher than 9-7, 10-6 being the high water mark.   

 

10-6 was actually our most common record during the Gibbs era and while we never made it to the Super Bowl with that record we did win one with an 11 win year

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, carex said:

 

10-6 was actually our most common record during the Gibbs era and while we never made it to the Super Bowl with that record we did win one with an 11 win year

 

Under Gibbs, they had FIVE seasons that Dan hasn't accomplished even once and that was done in about half the time Dan has owned the team.  But regardless, what do you want to see the team do?  I get that you are supportive of Dan, that's cool.  But right now we don't know what Dan will do with Trent.  What would you like them to do?  

[SkinsFTW]

14 minutes ago, carex said:

 

10-6 was actually our most common record during the Gibbs era and while we never made it to the Super Bowl with that record we did win one with an 11 win year

 

Gibbs had 1 losing season (7-9), Dan Snyder in the past 17 seasons has had 11. (1) 3-13, (2) 4-12, (3) 5-11, (2) 6-10, (3) 7-9.

 

Only 2 real hopeful seasons out of 17. 1 single playoff win which was, once again, Gibbs.

 

Yep, we're so close.

[carex]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Under Gibbs, they had FIVE seasons that Dan hasn't accomplished even once and that was done in about half the time Dan has owned the team.  But regardless, what do you want to see the team do?  I get that you are supportive of Dan, that's cool.  But right now we don't know what Dan will do with Trent.  What would you like them to do?  

 

these things really have nothing to do with what I'm saying

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, carex said:

 

these things really have nothing to do with what I'm saying

 

The discussion on this thread is mostly about what we want to see go down with Trent.  I was asking you what you want to go down.  I think I have a good handle on your stance on Dan.  

[carex]

 

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The discussion on this thread is mostly about what we want to see go down with Trent.  I was asking you what you want to go down.  I think I have a good handle on your stance on Dan.  

 

trade him.  It's not like there's a lot of options if he doesn't want to be here

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

 

trade him.  It's not like there's a lot of options if he doesn't want to be here

 

lol, pretty much...

 

Options :

1. Trade him

2. Don't trade him

[volsmet]

12 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

It is the right time to move on from Trent. He still has a ton of value, and we arent a contender. Its right for both parties to make the move. If we are terrible this year it sets us up for an incredible situation. The top end of the draft could include Herbert, Fromme, Tua, and Lawrence. If we are high, we could sell that pick and get a kings ransom. Coming out of the 2020 draft with Jerry Jeudy and Tristan Wirfs would cap the greatest 4-year draft plan in decades.

 

Lawrence is 2021, but I am on board with the idea ... and the result, Jeudy & Wirfs would be unbelievable.

 

 

On 3/18/2018 at 1:24 AM, volsmet said:

 

I also think we should trade Trent. He’s a blunt away from missing a season, we aren’t ready to contend for a title, and teams have never been more desperate for tackles. We could easily get another #1 in 2019, + several other valuable picks for Trent. Ty can play LT for us and we’d be fine. Then in 2019 we have more assets and a better foundation than these Browns everyone is lauding. The Browns who should have traded Joe Thomas. I love Trent, but the desperation for tackles is something we are in a great position to exploit. Pugh & Solder locking up massive contracts let’s us know teams would give quite a bit for our tackle. 

 

We wouldn’t be much worse this year & we would have quite a bit to build with moving forward. 

 

 

This dude, gets it. If our owner ever gets tired of being behind the times & stuck in 7 win purgatory... hire this guy to run things, and let him bring his favorite ESers.

 

 

[ddub52]

4 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Gibbs had 1 losing season (7-9), Dan Snyder in the past 17 seasons has had 11. (1) 3-13, (2) 4-12, (3) 5-11, (2) 6-10, (3) 7-9.

 

Only 2 real hopeful seasons out of 17. 1 single playoff win which was, once again, Gibbs.

 

Yep, we're so close.

Dan has owned the team for 20 years and won TWO playoff games, which is double the amount you stated! 

 

If it wasn’t so sad it’d be funny. 

[RandyHolt]

I assume Trent noticed like most did, that Colt broke his leg last year yet was not placed on IR.  That implies our crack med team was likely doing all they could to rush him back for a playoff game, that was virtually impossible to occur.  If we did have a playoff game, IMHO Jay would have been foolish to bench his hot QB who got him there, for his injury prone guy with a leg bone just recently mended.  Jay loves sure loves him some McCoy.  Trent witnessing the rush to get Colt ready for the playoffs certainly could have helped cement his opinions.

[purbeast]

24 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I assume Trent noticed like most did, that Colt broke his leg last year yet was not placed on IR.  That implies our crack med team was likely doing all they could to rush him back for a playoff game, that was virtually impossible to occur.  If we did have a playoff game, IMHO Jay would have been foolish to bench his hot QB who got him there, for his injury prone guy with a leg bone just recently mended.  Jay loves sure loves him some McCoy.  Trent witnessing the rush to get Colt ready for the playoffs certainly could have helped cement his opinions.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

I mean, why is it that arguable the 2 most high profile Redskins players who both broke their legs, had setbacks and infections for what is routine surgery, fixing a broken leg.

 

And then their #2 draft pick last year also has an infection and set back after surgery on another routine injury, especially in the NFL, of a torn ACL.

 

It just doesn't make any sense.  

[JSSkinz]

I wonder if many on here have ever read about our team doctors, I just did for the first time and these people are not working down at the free clinic.  They are established, experienced doctors and if you believe in online reviews from the standard medical review sites they seem to be very qualified people.

 

I'll sit back and wait for the **** storm of comments. 😀