2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I haven't watched him, but he seems like a Mohammed Sanu clone by your description.

 

He's better than Sanu was.  Sanu was a pure grinder who relied on underneath volume.  Jefferson is taller and leaner and has a smooth verticality in his arsenal.  His best plays are often beating slot man coverage deep.  He also has about as many touchdowns this season as Sanu had in his collegiate career.

 

In a normal WR draft, Jefferson has a real chance at going first round.  In this one, I think he still has a chance at going top 50.

[bakedtater1]

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

WASHINGTON REDSKINS — OFFENSIVE LINE

With no more Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff hitting free agency, the Redskins offensive line went from strength to liability in the blink of an eye. Left tackle, left guard and right guard all need addressing. 

 

I get the whole trent thing..and maybe scherff..I can totally see the skins letting him walk because he was a Scott pick..good ole Brucie will screw the pooch and let him walk..despite the struggles I've brought on to 75 I say ya keep him and build with him...and why not flowers...what has he done to be excused from that spot?...I guess I could see him going when the house is cleaned and that goes for donald Penn..I think he has held his own pretty good..I understand youth movement..yes I wanna be young across the line as well..maybe use that pick on chase young if he ain't gone..get a tackle that we can build on in the 3rd..but from what I've seen give flowers the spot...maybe replace moses..center is good left guard is good..use the number 2..3..over all pick on a left tackle if chase is gone replace Penn I guees..if ya trade 77 use that pick on a right tackle.

[PartyPosse]

If we do lose Scherff to FA then we absolutely have to trade back in this draft to recoup that lost 2nd. We have too many holes to waste a pick on an (albeit elite) DE. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

41 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I get the whole trent thing..and maybe scherff..I can totally see the skins letting him walk because he was a Scott pick..good ole Brucie will screw the pooch and let him walk..despite the struggles I've brought on to 75 I say ya keep him and build with him...and why not flowers...what has he done to be excused from that spot?...I guess I could see him going when the house is cleaned and that goes for donald Penn..I think he has held his own pretty good..I understand youth movement..yes I wanna be young across the line as well..maybe use that pick on chase young if he ain't gone..get a tackle that we can build on in the 3rd..but from what I've seen give flowers the spot...maybe replace moses..center is good left guard is good..use the number 2..3..over all pick on a left tackle if chase is gone replace Penn I guees..if ya trade 77 use that pick on a right tackle.

 

Here's my case for Flowers over Scherff.  Since everything I read is we have to re-sign Scherff, I thought I'd do a counterpoint for funsies.

 

We need to let either Flowers or Scherff go, it would cost a lot to retain both.  In order to keep Scherff here we'd have to pay him far too much money.  Franchise tag at 16+ million, a long term contract would probably be 14 or 15 million.  Flowers would probably cost 1/3rd of what Scherff costs.  Scherff is better than Flowers, but not 3 times the price better.  It also doesn't help that in Scherff's 8 games played, he's already had 8 penalties, which ties his career high (that he set playing 16 games).

 

- Scherff isn't the most penalized O-Lineman in the game (and there are some solid ones at the top of the list), but he is the most penalized Guard, and he's done that despite playing 2 fewer games than the next most penalized Guard.

 

- Scherff is tied for most Holding penalties in the NFL.  He's got 6 of those.  Again, he's done that in just 8 games.  All of the other O-Lineman with 5 or more holding penalties have played in 10 or 11 games.

 

- Scherff has missed 12 games over the past 3 seasons.  You have to worry about injury history and his normal penalty-free play suddenly being penalty-prone.

 

- Flowers has missed 1 game in 2015, and 1 game in 2017 (Week 17 when their season was already over), could he have played through that?  Maybe.  But he's been remarkably healthy.

 

- Flowers is at a career low in penalties per game.  He was awful with penalties before, but the switch to Guard has been good for him.

 

- Flowers is still just 25.  Scherff is 2.5 years older, he'll turn 28 in December, whereas Flowers doesn't turn 26 until April.

 

How does this pertain to the draft?  We still need OT help, and we could still use Guard depth.  We've been using Tony Bergstrom as an occasional 6th O-lineman in big packages...and he's been awful.  We re-sign Flowers, extend Rouiller, and start Martin at RG.  Interior O-Line is locked up at good prices for a few years.  Christian starts at LT next season.   Our OL play in 2020 can be decent without breaking the bank, but we'd have zero depth.

 

OT depth, who can eventually replace Moses at RT is key.  Further Guard depth is key.  Our 2020 depth would be bare, we'd have nobody, and any injuries that could happen would cripple the unit.  The best way to get depth we can develop is through the draft.

 

P.S.  When Callahan started benching starters in the 4th quarter on defense, he also benched Penn and put in Christian.  Who near as I can tell, was decent.  He moves better than Penn, that much is clear.

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

P.S.  When Callahan started benching starters in the 4th quarter on defense, he also benched Penn and put in Christian.  Who near as I can tell, was decent.  He moves better than Penn, that much is clear.

I feel like Penn was pulled once he had his meltdown, no?

 

Also, go figure but Ereck Flowers is looking like the best OL to come out of that 2015 draft (either him or Peat).

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

19 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think second or early third round is his natural range.  You're right about the relative value of outside receivers vs inside guys and the reason is the difficulty of the matchups, and how much hard it is physically to win outside leverage against NFL press.  The release against NFL press is one of the biggest barriers to entry for college receivers coming into the league.  Much easier to start out in the slot.  IIRC, Michael Thomas was an outside receiver at Ohio State, so the potential to play that role was on tape.

 

I don't think Jefferson is going to run a fast forty or blow anyone away with the quickness he shows on tape, but he strikes me as the classic overachiever.  He is big for the position, physical, competitive, tough, and ultra reliable.  He's got some nice nuance in his vertical breaking routes and isn't typically bothered by physicality in the contact window.  And he has nice potential as a blocker.  The willingness and aggressiveness and the size are there to excel in that part of the position.  He's a blue collar receiver who reminds me of McLaurin in his clutchness and his football character.  (He's not going to run 4.3 though).

 

Just watched the cutup against Auburn, and clearly need to watch more.  Thought his blocking was meh at first, but as the game went on he got feistier and feistier.  His aggression blocking was nice in the 2nd half.  He'd really go after some of those DB's.

 

As you mention, ability to win against NFL press is a barrier, and I think that's a problem for Jefferson.  When going against off coverage where he had free releases, you could see enough speed for him to do stuff in the NFL.  But against press, he struggled.  He'd try a variety of hesitation moves, but he either lacks the explosiveness to separate from there, or ability to fool the defender.  Against tight coverage near the line, he was largely taken out of plays.

 

I need to see more, but so far it looks like most of his damage will be done against zones, or schemed free releases from bunch sets and the like.  I need to see more, specifically I'm not sure yet if he can or can't run routes like whip/pivot/whatever-they're-called.  From that game, I'd guess he'd be available in the 3rd round, but with more film, he could be in the 2nd or fall to the 4th.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Tedskins 21]

On 11/7/2019 at 4:14 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Montez Sweat is still young.  Troubling signs, surely, but 1 full off-season for him where he thinks "Ok, that didn't work like it did in college, how can I fix it?"  If after 2 seasons he still struggles, that's rough.  To put this in context with someone else, DeMarcus Lawrence did absolutely nothing in his rookie year, flashed in his 2nd year, went back to nothing in his 3rd year, before finally figuring it out and turning it on in his 4th and 5th years.

 

Regardless, even if Sweat pans out, what team wouldn't want two stud passrushers.  Remember the havoc that Ware and Miller created in their SB win?

 

There are 7 pass rushers drafted in the 1st round in 2019, and according to PFR here's some stats (in order of draft position):

Nick Bosa - 24 pressures (including 7 sacks), 21 combined tackles, 1 missed tackle, 4 Tackles For Loss (11 minus the 7 sacks)

Clelin Ferrell - 3 pressures (inc. 1 sack), 15 tackles, 1 missed tackle, 1 TFL

Josh Allen - 31 pressures (7 sacks), 25 tackles, 2 missed tackles, 1 TFL

Rashan Gary - 3 pressures (1 sack), 12 tackles, 3 missed tackles, 0 TFL

Brian Burns - 19 pressures (4.5 sacks), 15 tackles, 3 missed tackles, -2 TFL (I think this can only happen if he didn't actually tackle the QB, but ran him out of bounds behind the LoS)

Montez Sweat - 15 pressures (2.5 sacks), 33 tackles, 1 missed tackle, 1 TFL

LJ Collier - 0 pressures, 2 tackles (I'm including him since his draft projection was that as a "big edge" on the strongside, no idea how Seattle is using him though)

 

Our guy Sweat has been much more active in the run defense part than everyone else.  I'm surprised Brian Burns only has a bit more pass rush production, i've heard he's playing great for Carolina.  He's also someone I liked a lot more than Sweat coming out.

 

Sweat hasn't shown ANY flashes.  He's going to be average at best.  You don't just learn to be fluid or learn instinct.  He's like RGIII, only on the defensive side.  But sure, let's give him time....

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

Sweat hasn't shown ANY flashes.  He's going to be average at best.  You don't just learn to be fluid or learn instinct.  He's like RGIII, only on the defensive side.  But sure, let's give him time....

Hes been excellent against the run and would look much better replacing Kerrigan, if we draft Young.

[Tedskins 21]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Hes been excellent against the run and would look much better replacing Kerrigan, if we draft Young.

 

We needed an impact passrusher, not a run stopper.  

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

We needed an impact passrusher, not a run stopper.  

"Need", not needed.

 

You cant just close the book on a guy half way through his first season on a team that sucks and needs new coaches. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

We needed an impact passrusher, not a run stopper.  

Well, the FO shouldn’t have relied on a draft pick to fill a pressing need.  Plenty of time for Sweat to improve his pass rush production, especially given how the season is going.  He still has a high ceiling, and the run stopping contribution is still a very positive sign from him.  I’ll add that I believe if the secondary was playing better and we had better coaching, he’d be more productive.  
I don’t think that it’s a coincidence that Kerrigan has also been virtually nonexistent.  People are also starting to question how good our dline really is, but when you have this many players you believed to be good (most of whom have proven themselves), it’s probably a separate variable causing them to not look so hot.  

[Thinking Skins]

4 hours ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

We needed an impact passrusher, not a run stopper.  

I disagree. I think we need playmakers on both sides of the ball. If thats Chase Young, great, but I wouldn't mind trading down and drafting a CB because that area's a true weakness right now. We also need a TE who can win the battles, or a MLB (maybe SDH or Foster are the answer next to Holcomb but who knows), a FS who can make plays like Fitzpatrick. 

 

When the year ends what I'll be asking myself is not just who the best players are, but who the playmakers are, and who the guys are who can be the cornerstones of a franchise. If I can't have faith that the coaches will turn this thing around then I want hope that we have a playmaker (more than a hard worker) who can just make a dynamic play and change the game around. 

[Skinsinparadise]

new ones

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Someone posted on Youtube, the All-22 footage of every Haskins passing play against the Jets.  So I used that to judge the OL.   Nobody was particularly bad.

 

Keep in mind this is just pass blocking.

 

OT's

Geron Christian looks like he's ready to start.

Penn was probably the worst one, he doesn't move all that well, some guys can get around the corner on him.

Moses has issues with bull rush, he doesn't get blown away, but he'll steadily lose ground.

 

IOL

Flowers worst play was the first play of the game, he forgot the snap count and his man had a free rush.  Besides that he was fine.

Roullier had some low snaps, besides that he was great.

Scherff had a miscommunication with Moses early on, and his holding penalty that negated the 67 yard pass to McLaurin was unnecessary.  I think it was just frustration and he wanted to take the guy down to the ground.

 

6th OL on jumbo packages

Bergstrom...he's bad.  I have no idea why the 6th OL isn't Penn, Geron, or Martin, ...or anybody else.

 

Based on just pass blocking, I don't see a reason to draft OL in the 1st round.  Geron Christian looks ready to be our LT of the future.  I know run blocking can be an entirely different story, so I'm curious if anyone knows of All-22 run blocking cutups from that game?

 

A Guard or Center drafted in the 1st round has to be able to really be a people mover in the run game.  The pass blocking snaps highlight how little value a Guard can have.  I saw a few times where Scherff is "looking for work" --> "sees work" --> tries to help out his teammate but has no angle to do so.  Whereas OT by the nature of controlling and protecting the Edge have extra value in pass protection.  So on some pass plays Guards aren't really doing much.

 

I can see an argument for Moses to be upgraded on, and his contract gets more expensive in 2020 and 2021.  But from a pass blocking perspective a 1st rounder has to be a measurable immediate improvement in that area, and it would be hard.  I don't see the value.  An argument can be made for a Day 2 pick, stash and develop like we did with Geron Christian.  I can get behind that.

[kingdaddy]

10 hours ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

Sweat hasn't shown ANY flashes.  He's going to be average at best.  You don't just learn to be fluid or learn instinct.  He's like RGIII, only on the defensive side.  But sure, let's give him time....

Gotta give him time....He'll realize he needs to get bigger/stronger and get it done over the offseason. Sweat is gonna be a stud for us. 

[The Consigliere]

On 11/11/2019 at 4:26 PM, Skin'emAlive said:

It’s a tough call. One that Chicago is facing. They have an All pro in Mack, but because they used their draft capital on him, they couldn’t upgrade the OL. 
 

We have the opportunity to move an extremely valuable pick to upgrade multiple positions this year and next. We need an overhaul at the tackle and tight end positions. 

The bears problem isn’t blown draft capital on Mack, it’s picking the one bust among 3 prospects, the other two of which have become potential HOF level talents. They acquired ARob, Anthony Miller, Tarik Cohen, David Montgomery, Taylor Gabriel and Adam Shaheen for Trubisky and he’s managed to ruin all of them. He’s a cascade effect that’s killed everything else they’ve tried to do.

[Sonny9TD]

19 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Someone posted on Youtube, the All-22 footage of every Haskins passing play against the Jets.  So I used that to judge the OL.   Nobody was particularly bad.

 

Keep in mind this is just pass blocking.

 

OT's

Geron Christian looks like he's ready to start.

Penn was probably the worst one, he doesn't move all that well, some guys can get around the corner on him.

Moses has issues with bull rush, he doesn't get blown away, but he'll steadily lose ground.

 

IOL

Flowers worst play was the first play of the game, he forgot the snap count and his man had a free rush.  Besides that he was fine.

Roullier had some low snaps, besides that he was great.

Scherff had a miscommunication with Moses early on, and his holding penalty that negated the 67 yard pass to McLaurin was unnecessary.  I think it was just frustration and he wanted to take the guy down to the ground.

 

6th OL on jumbo packages

Bergstrom...he's bad.  I have no idea why the 6th OL isn't Penn, Geron, or Martin, ...or anybody else.

 

Based on just pass blocking, I don't see a reason to draft OL in the 1st round.  Geron Christian looks ready to be our LT of the future.  I know run blocking can be an entirely different story, so I'm curious if anyone knows of All-22 run blocking cutups from that game?

 

A Guard or Center drafted in the 1st round has to be able to really be a people mover in the run game.  The pass blocking snaps highlight how little value a Guard can have.  I saw a few times where Scherff is "looking for work" --> "sees work" --> tries to help out his teammate but has no angle to do so.  Whereas OT by the nature of controlling and protecting the Edge have extra value in pass protection.  So on some pass plays Guards aren't really doing much.

 

I can see an argument for Moses to be upgraded on, and his contract gets more expensive in 2020 and 2021.  But from a pass blocking perspective a 1st rounder has to be a measurable immediate improvement in that area, and it would be hard.  I don't see the value.  An argument can be made for a Day 2 pick, stash and develop like we did with Geron Christian.  I can get behind that.

Good post. Like the thought process. Not sure we don't need a LT but maybe Geron can do it. Maybe. Moses is a dilemma. I just think he is a great backup in case a really good RT goes down. If there is a Tackle in the draft that can start we need him. That 2nd round pick is coming back to bite us more and more. However the 1st round pick should be Burrows or Chase Young. Probably chase Young to show Sweat how to do it before we trade him.

[Koolblue13]

@Alcoholic Zebra thanks for that great post. I acutely feel better.

[The Consigliere]

On 11/15/2019 at 4:28 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If we burn Haskins and pick another QB this year, then I honestly don't understand how any fan could expect the next guy to succeed for this organization.  Franchise QBs are made, not found.  It already kind of feels like we are incapable of developing one, burning up Haskins would be proof for me.  And the opportunity cost isn't really just the 15th pick in a vacuum because Haskins was a huge value pick.  The cost is an elite prospect.  That would be two elite QB prospects we've burned up in a span of seven years, and very probably three.

 

Ruining Haskins and Tua... I can't stomach that.  The unbelievable bungling of the QB position that this organization has been guilty of--for decades--but most egregiously this decade... it would end my fanhood.

 

Just as a matter of principle, there is absolutely no way I want to see this FO getting yet another shot at QB.  Seventh times the charm?  No thanks.

 

We need to make it work with Haskins.

Don't understand this argument. While I believed in Rosen, and still do, the cardinals believed (rightly it seems) Murray was a perfect fit for their offense and a superior talent to Rosen, and so they dealt Rosen, and got their franchise QB. instead of being Miami, and unclear on what to do at QB, Arizona has crossed that franchise changing need off their list. 

 

We are like Miami, we have no idea if QB is still a need. We rolled the dice w/Haskins, it's 50/50 at best we were right and the early returns are largely negative (though unfair, w/no OL and few weapons, nobody is going to look good), if we land on 1.01, or have a chance at Tua if he slips due to the current injury concerns, he's a flat out, locked in "Just make the pick and walk away" move. At this point it's highly unreasonable to think that Haskins has a better than sub 50% chance of hitting. Tua absolutely has a higher chance, and is a signficantly better prospect. Burrows I'm a bit more skeptical of, like Haskins, he's got 1 quality year on his record, and unlike Haskins, he also has one crappy year on his record. I am fine w/taking Young over Burrows, but not over Tua. Period. I just don't get your reasoning, it is more about feelings than reason to me. If we want to go with feelings, we should quit the fandom period, nothings gonna change till Snyder's dead more than likely. However, if anythings going to change anything it's a legit franchise QB. That's franchise transforming. Tua is likely to be that kind of guy, Haskins is less than 50% likely to be that guy. Reason should be the guide. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

@Alcoholic Zebra thanks for that great post. I acutely feel better.

 

I think if Jamal Adams wasn't on the Jets, we would feel better about how the protection was in that game.  Adams is surprisingly amazing and instinctive as a pass rusher.  There were times he (legally) whacked Haskins after a throw, where I don't see how you can really blame any of the OL.

 

Like, I'm shocked.  We all knew of Adams being a pretty good player, but with how much of a knack he has as a blitzer, he has to be the best safety in the game currently with how the Jets use him.

 

-----------------------

Getting a little sidetracked here, but it's almost always a bad idea to draft a Safety in the Top 10.   Over the past 20 years, here are the safeties who have been drafted in the Top 10.

 

-Jamal Adams is only now worth it.

-Eric Berry would have been, but injuries.

-Mark Barron was not.

-Laron Landry was not.

-Donte Whitner was not.

-Sean Taylor, everyone here knows about.

-Roy Williams was not.

 

That's not a good success rate.  Less than half don't pan out?  I haven't watched either of the Top 2 safeties in this draft, but from what I'm reading, I doubt they'd be worth a Top 10 selection either.  The Draft Network has Delpit at #10, McKinney at #33, and Hamsah Nasirildeen at #36.  I watched a game of Nasirildeen, and I think #36 is too high of a valuation for him as well.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Don't understand this argument. While I believed in Rosen, and still do, the cardinals believed (rightly it seems) Murray was a perfect fit for their offense and a superior talent to Rosen, and so they dealt Rosen, and got their franchise QB. instead of being Miami, and unclear on what to do at QB, Arizona has crossed that franchise changing need off their list. 

 

We are like Miami, we have no idea if QB is still a need. We rolled the dice w/Haskins, it's 50/50 at best we were right and the early returns are largely negative (though unfair, w/no OL and few weapons, nobody is going to look good), if we land on 1.01, or have a chance at Tua if he slips due to the current injury concerns, he's a flat out, locked in "Just make the pick and walk away" move. At this point it's highly unreasonable to think that Haskins has a better than sub 50% chance of hitting. Tua absolutely has a higher chance, and is a signficantly better prospect. Burrows I'm a bit more skeptical of, like Haskins, he's got 1 quality year on his record, and unlike Haskins, he also has one crappy year on his record. I am fine w/taking Young over Burrows, but not over Tua. Period. I just don't get your reasoning, it is more about feelings than reason to me. If we want to go with feelings, we should quit the fandom period, nothings gonna change till Snyder's dead more than likely. However, if anythings going to change anything it's a legit franchise QB. That's franchise transforming. Tua is likely to be that kind of guy, Haskins is less than 50% likely to be that guy. Reason should be the guide. 

 

I'm getting tired of people trying to tell me that my evaluation of Haskins is based entirely on feelings or some kind of desperate fandom when it's clear that their negative opinion of Haskins is 100% based on Q Rating bull****.  AKA Feelings.  My evaluation of Haskins has been fixed, since well before we picked him.  It hasn't changed because of two little starts for a dead dog team.

 

I evaluated Hasksins last year and graded him a 7.  I've seen a huge number of Tua games and will probably end up grading him around a 7.2, the same as I graded Murray last year.  A healthy Tua is a marginally better prospect than Haskins.  I watched Rosen from his freshman season on and would have graded him a little over a 6.  Haskins, Tua, and Murray were all significantly better prospects than him.  Even still, the Cardinals severely ****ed the dog with Rosen and basically ruined his career.  They're not a good organization, shouldn't be viewed as providing some kind of model to follow, and I hope they don't ruin Murray too because he's a rare talent at the position.

 

There is no way we're moving on from Haskins this offseason and it's absolutely the right call.  

[The Consigliere]

On 11/17/2019 at 6:23 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some scouts wondered whether Tua will return to Alabama for his senior season—the QB has one year of eligibility remaining (it was assumed that he would forego that final year to enter the 2020 draft), and it’s a fair question. The benefit of returning for his senior season would be to prove to NFL evaluators he can come back from this serious injury and return to his previous level of play. The downside, obviously, is risking further injury without getting paid NFL money, and the possibility of failing to play at the same level as he was pre-hip injury, which would certainly lower his stock. If he declares for the 2020 draft, a team can still talk themselves into that best possible outcome for Tagovailoa.

It’s too early to tell how long Tagovailoa will be rehabbing, or when he’ll be cleared to play again, but ultimately, that will be the determining factor on his draft stock.

“Yes, the injury will be a major factor,” one evaluator said. “It will all be based on the team doctor’s recommendation to the GM. Period.”

There is an argument to made that Tagovailoa shouldn’t have been playing at all in that game, with Alabama leading Mississippi State 35-7 and with the QB still recovering from his latest ankle procedure. Tagovailoa underwent a “tightrope” procedure—a cutting-edge surgery designed to speed up recovery and allow him to return faster—for a high right ankle sprain on October 20. 

Tagovailoa was focused on returning for the Crimson Tide’s game against LSU last week, a decision that Alabama head coach Nick Saban said he largely left up to his quarterback; Tua started, but there were moments of doubt during that game. Now with hindsight 20/20 vision, maybe a quarterback on the verge of earning significant money as a top draft pick should prioritize his long term health for the NFL over the short-term ability to extend his college season.

“If he’s on pace to be back for the start of next season, I think he'll be fine,” another scout said. “And all it takes is one team to take a chance on him... Example: Jaylon Smith.”

 

...One scout said he expects Tagovailoa to still be in the discussion for top quarterback in the class, but it will all depend on the medical reports.

 

Nothing is certain when it comes to Tagovailoa anymore, but there’s one clear result of his injury: Tua’s name will now be used alongside Smith’s as cautionary tales for top draft prospects.

 

The latter part is what's infuriating to me. Up 35-7, already injured, it's patently obvious that Saban is just running his machine, and doesn't give a ---- about the player. We already knew this from loads of stories coming out of his time w/the Dolphins but this is so much worse. Those Dolphins players were at least professionals, had gotten paid for putting themselves at risk. Tua hasn't gotten his first job yet and Saban is simply using him to try and get back into the playoff, having a surgery that doesn't put player first at least as it's M.O. states, then going back in to work on the two minute drill. And for the love of god, stop it with the, "its up to the QB' b.s.. Since when is Saban not in charge of every last detail. Suddenly Tua decides whose playing and when? Give me an expletive break. Again bad enough when a young professional like RGIII was sabotaged by complete and utter irresponsible horse bleep from Shanny, but it's 1000x worse when Saban is trying to sell the same tired ---- when Tua isn't even being paid. 

 

Just vile. I hope more and more and more players eschew chunks of, and maybe even all of final seasons if necessary. Something has to change. 

[Skinsota]

I want Chase Young.  I don't care about any other player in the draft right now.  Of course that will change.  Hopefully we make some deals, to get back some picks. 

[mistertim]

Yeah it was idiotic for Saban to leave Tua in there. I'm glad his surgery went well. As far as his draft stock, it's really hard to say and probably depends on how his recovery goes between now and draft day. I have a feeling that someone will still take a chance on him pretty high, as long as he can show that he's mostly recovered. That being said, it would be one thing if this were a one and done freak injury, but he does have a somewhat significant injury history now, which I could see scaring plenty of teams. All the talent in the world doesn't matter if you can't stay on the field (see Reed, Jordan). 

 

I think Cincy will go Burrow at #1 overall. To be honest, IMO Burrow was already right up there with Tua for that spot before Tua's injury. Now I don't see anyone besides Burrow being worth that pick. Unless Cincy isn't all that into Burrow and goes pure BPA in Chase Young. That would be interesting. One one hand I'd hate missing out on a generational guy like Young, but on the other then we'd probably have a few teams bidding to move up to 2 and take Burrow, so we could get a haul of picks potentially.