2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I think Moses is a logical cap casualty next off-season at a $9m savings. Of course the team will be flush with cash next year so they could see him as a valuable piece and worth keeping around for depth.

 

I see us needing an immediate LT and a long term RT. There’s a chance Christian could slide to RT and emerge in his third year but I’d feel a lot better if we had 2 Rookie OTs to groom. One in R3 (Charles) and a later round OT in R5 or R7. 
 

We gain flexibility to do this if we get multiple picks for Trent. Something like a 3+4. Opens up the options to double dipping at a few spots on offense. Namely WR and OL 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

WOW! Now that's a bold statement.

I will admit he one of about 10 players that I have really grown to like over the past month. It seems he has grown on others as well. Many early mocks had as a 3rd rounder. The ones rarely have him getting out of the 2nd. 

 

He's been talked about in the 20s or back part of the first round in numerous recent mocks.  Here's Ledyard's from this morning.   The other one here and there mocked in the late first has been Wilson but not as much so.  

 

https://www.pewterreport.com/ledyards-final-2020-nfl-mock-draft/

25. Minnesota Vikings: Ezra Cleveland, OT, Boise State

Boise State OT Ezra Cleveland – Photo courtesy of Boise State

BUT WHAT ABOUT A CORNERBACK? Maybe I’ll be wrong, but I’ve got a hunch that Jeff Gladney doesn’t go as early as many expect, and Kristian Fulton doesn’t really fit Minnesota. It’s a deep cornerback class, and the Vikings have flexibility in their draft capital to jump up from No. 58 if they need to. I think they’ll consider Cleveland such a good fit as the heir apparent to Riley Reiff that they can’t pass up on him at No. 25.

[OVCChairman]

32 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Arians doesn’t use TE’s, declined to use Howard at all last year, put him on the market last week, and traded for Gronk yesterday, but we are supposed to believe they will only listen to exorbitant offers? I don’t buy it. A 4th to TB to replace the 4th they lost should be enough. 

 

 

I have a feeling it's because Brate is the one they are looking to move.  He's under contract so he could net a better return, Brate is a bigger cap it, and Gronk walks into that role as an instant starter.  Gronk / Howard > Gronk / Brate in regards to versatility.

[Skin'emAlive]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It could be.  I read Arians book.  In it, he prides himself on being adaptable on offense to meet whatever hand he's got personnel wise.   And he's known to love to do funky stuff with his offenses.  He's not per se a stuck in the mud type or at least that's not the impression I get about him. 

 

Brate and Howard combined for 70 catches last year. That's not bad and that's with some serious outside weapons.   Regardless, any team needs at least 3 TEs.  So why not keep 3 versus give one away cheap?

 

I agree that they may indeed trade Howard but in their shoes I wouldn't give him away, I'd hold out some for good value. 

Cameron Brate:

55 targets

36 receptions

311 yds

 

OJ Howard:

53 targets

34 receptions

459 yards

 

Dare Ogunbowale:

46 targets

35 receptions

286 yards

Breshad Perriman:
70 targets

36 receptions 

645 yards

 

Mike Evans

118 targets

67 receptions

1157 yards

 

Chris Godwin

121 targets

86 receptions

1333 yards

 

The TE is an afterthought in this offense. I mean, Ronald Jones and ogubowale both had similar targets and receptions to OJ and Brate. If TB develops some running game that * may change a little. But more than likely, it’s going to the wrs and rbs first and foremost. 

[Rolo Tomasie]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think he's more tailor made for LT versus RT.  

 

His strengths IMO are his length, tall, longish arms, and pass protection.  So those are LT attributes. Protect the blind side. 

 

He needs to improve as a run blocker.  I see more of the stocky, run blocker types at RT and that's not IMO Niang.  

I read where Niang is listed as 6'7" 328, but on film he looks thicker than that. Note #77 in the below video. Also, TCU had him at RT. I don't see LT feet, and I actually see him as a better run blocker than pass protector, but I'm no expert.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

I read where Niang is listed as 6'7" 328, but on film he looks thicker than that. Note #77 in the below video. Also, TCU had him at RT. I don't see LT feet, and I actually see him as a better run blocker than pass protector, but I'm no expert.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am no expert either of course.  It's just my opinion.   😀   Yep, he did play RT as some other RTs converted to LT like Trent did years back among others and in this draft players like Wills and Wirfs (mostly), Peart among others project by most to go to LT.  Bartch for example played LT but I see him more of a guard or maybe RT.  Jack Driscoll who I like and played RT, I think is likely better at guard.

 

Back to Niang, he can improve his foot work I agree.  But if you are a good pass protector and you got good length -- that's someone who I believe is worth molding and would prefer them at LT.  If he was a finished product, he'd be going in the first.    The kicker for me was watching him handle Chase Young and Nick Bosa in a game.  

 

Below from PFF, they grade him also as a better pass blocker than run blocker.   IMO, you don't waste a dude with that type of length and pass blocking ability at RT even if TCU did.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

[JamesMadisonSkins]

 

uhhh ...

Good god. I hope any "complete trade" that we get offered allows us to also be in a position to draft Chase Young. I've already fallen for him. I don't know if I can overcome the sadness of missing him on this defense.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

12 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

uhhh ...

Good god. I hope any "complete trade" that we get offered allows us to also be in a position to draft Chase Young. I've already fallen for him. I don't know if I can overcome the sadness of missing him on this defense.

😥😥😥😥😥

[Riggo#44]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

uhhh ...

Good god. I hope any "complete trade" that we get offered allows us to also be in a position to draft Chase Young. I've already fallen for him. I don't know if I can overcome the sadness of missing him on this defense.

 

Yeah, that gives me some angst--but just because it's offered, doesn't mean we have to take it.

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

uhhh ...

Good god. I hope any "complete trade" that we get offered allows us to also be in a position to draft Chase Young. I've already fallen for him. I don't know if I can overcome the sadness of missing him on this defense.

I think complete trade means that team won’t offer more.

Also, I’ll preface by saying I think Young winds up a Skin. But I told all of you months ago to let the process play out and not to count on him being in the uniform.

 

Then you guys went and caught feelings! I mean I get it. Everything you can want. But at some point you have to understand that the deed can’t be considered done until you’ve entered that territory officially. Otherwise it’s just a fantasy.

 

But nooooo, KD is just a worried jerk. Pfft.

[OVCChairman]

17 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

uhhh ...

Good god. I hope any "complete trade" that we get offered allows us to also be in a position to draft Chase Young. I've already fallen for him. I don't know if I can overcome the sadness of missing him on this defense.

 

 

I think that means the conversation went from "what would it take" to "here's an offer."  

 

I don't think that means the offer is even competitive, more likely that a team has made an official offer... 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Right @OVCChairman I agree. But I also think that this could have come from the Skins side, to entice another final offer to come through that they would consider. That being said, I know we'd have to "accept" said trade. And I don't see us doing that, especially if this FO likes the 3rd and 4th round prospects and can get some picks for TW.

BTW, lot of smoke on TW front. Seems like a trade could go down any minute

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Right @OVCChairman I agree. But I also think that this could have come from the Skins side, to entice another final offer to come through that they would consider. That being said, I know we'd have to "accept" said trade. And I don't see us doing that, especially if this FO likes the 3rd and 4th round prospects and can get some picks for TW.

BTW, lot of smoke on TW front. Seems like a trade could go down any minute

Would be glorious to be rid of that Allen mess.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Right @OVCChairman I agree. But I also think that this could have come from the Skins side, to entice another final offer to come through that they would consider. That being said, I know we'd have to "accept" said trade. And I don't see us doing that, especially if this FO likes the 3rd and 4th round prospects and can get some picks for TW.

BTW, lot of smoke on TW front. Seems like a trade could go down any minute

 

 

Yeah it's ramping up fast.  My HUNCH is that it's Tampa.  They pick at 14, so my assumption is they're trying to move up to take their favorite tackle (my guess is Thomas), and if they can't, they may pull the trigger on Trent before the draft....  It could ultimately come down to their pick tomorrow night.  If Thomas (or their favorite Tackle) comes off the board before 14, I could see an announcement very soon after that stating that the trade has been accepted.  

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I noticed PFF loves Jones.  I am a big Niang guy, I like Cleveland just a hair over him because of consistency and maybe durability.  

 

PFF is good at grading players individually.  I don't think they're very good at synthesizing that information and turning it into coherent team building analysis.

 

I don't think we're going to have a chance at Jones, so there is probably not much point in checking him out now.  But I loved what I saw from him, and think he's better than Wills and Jackson and Cleveland.  He's actually better than Wirfs too, but Wirfs is such a freakishly good athlete that his ceiling is through the roof.

 

I voted for Jones to be the OT3 in this class and put him at 13th overall on my board, and I typed up a small take on Jones in a defense of that vote which I don't think I'll be posting because it got to be tediously long and repetitive (it was almost 5,000 words).  Since I don't think people really want to read a ten page single space paper of repetitive scoutspeak takes, most of which they already know, I've decided to just cut and paste sections of the players we haven't discussed as much in here:

 

"Josh Jones, Houston - Big, well put together athlete at the position whose senior film was really good.  Footwork is a little jerky as a pass protector, but he's a wall who gives up almost no ground to power and has the size and length and lateral speed to handle speed on the edge.  Elite run blocker who really shines as a move blocker who can stick difficult point of attack blocks way out in space on small, speedy secondary targets.  Better athlete than Jedrick Wills.  Better pass protector."

 

I think the accuracy and anticipation on his second level and move blocks is in a tier of its own among the OTs in this class.  He really is a fabulous run blocker.  And his pass pro is almost as strong.  He's a battler who will dogfight power rushers to a standstill and he's got easy slide and mirror athleticism.

 

If he were there at 66, by some strange twist of fate, you take him no questions asked.  That would be the best possible outcome for us, even better than Tee Higgins or Jonathan Taylor.

[Skinsinparadise]

I wanted some real smoke on Trent-Tampa.  Finally got a little of it

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/23634/tom-brady-lures-rob-gronkowski-showing-bucs-all-in-to-win-hometown-super-bowl

A source told ESPN that the Bucs were in discussions to trade Howard two months ago to the Washington Redskins in exchange for offensive tackle Trent Williams, but talks fell through. The Bucs have until May 5 to determine if they'll pick up the fifth-year option on Howard's contract for 2021.

[Est.1974]

Top 7 team then. All the way down to CAR at 7.

 

interesting. Who they got, wasn’t Curtis Samuel on the block?

[Skinsinparadise]

I've debated @UK SKINS FAN 74 about the Redskins telegraphing they want to trade down. 😀   To me it's been the opposite of that.  But today I concede there is some smoke that they want to drum trade interest.  My take on this is I'd drum up trade interest, too.  You got nothing to lose.  I love Chase but there isn't a player-pick that's off limits to me at least none we have.  But I wouldn't be a cheap date, you'd have to blow me away.

 

@KDawg months ago liked to say what if a team wanted to trade up for Chase?  Those 2 tweets below does potentially connect some dots in that territory. 

 

 

 

 

If I had to take a stab at trade interest:

 

A.  Dolphins but it's not a big offer.  The thing the Dolphin beat guys keep saying is they still like Tua but their enthusiasm is tempered some because of injury concerns but will still take him if he fell to their pick or could get him cheap.  Some national draft geek types think the Dolphins lost interest in Tua.  I disagree.  But I do buy they lost interest in trading the moon for him.

 

B.  Atlanta.  It's pretty out there that they desperately want to trade up.  But that wouldn't jive with the 2nd tweet from Anderson since they aren't in the top 7 -- if those two tweets are connected which obviously I don't know. 

 

C.  SD.  Tua?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

 

[clskinsfan]

28 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think complete trade means that team won’t offer more.

Also, I’ll preface by saying I think Young winds up a Skin. But I told all of you months ago to let the process play out and not to count on him being in the uniform.

 

Then you guys went and caught feelings! I mean I get it. Everything you can want. But at some point you have to understand that the deed can’t be considered done until you’ve entered that territory officially. Otherwise it’s just a fantasy.

 

But nooooo, KD is just a worried jerk. Pfft.

Yes sir. The NFL draft is a clown show. You can never say never. And it is exactly what I need at the moment. The perfect thing to take my mind off of what is happening in this country right now.

[Est.1974]

I’ll guess Carolina want to move up to #2

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I think I would piss my pants.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I’ll guess Carolina want to move up to #2

I think I would piss my pants.

 

Me, too.  I'd be shocked based on all of the other reports out there.  But I'd beyond jazzed if they got a 2nd let alone a first. I don't usually associate Patrick as a plugged in rumor source.

[clskinsfan]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I wanted some real smoke on Trent-Tampa.  Finally got a little of it

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/23634/tom-brady-lures-rob-gronkowski-showing-bucs-all-in-to-win-hometown-super-bowl

A source told ESPN that the Bucs were in discussions to trade Howard two months ago to the Washington Redskins in exchange for offensive tackle Trent Williams, but talks fell through. The Bucs have until May 5 to determine if they'll pick up the fifth-year option on Howard's contract for 2021.

Hmmm. Howard and a 3rd and I jump on it I think. TW is worth at least a second rounder IMO. And Howard hasnt really done anything at the pro level. But it does make a ton of sense for both teams.