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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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9 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I'm going to beat the drum for Anthony McFarland Jr.

 

You can never have enough speed and he has it in abundance.

 

He has the ability the split out wide as well.

 

 


 

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I want to bring attention to a player, Kyle Dugger, that I don't think @volsmet 😀 has mentioned yet...

 

 

 


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On 7/11/2019 at 11:50 PM, volsmet said:

Edge class is insane. I need some random guys to watch. 

 

Watching Utah this week someone stood out as a potential round 1 Edge in a class that seems it may have 33 round 1 Edge’s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Sports Illustrated ranks Utah EDGE Bradlee Anae 22nd among college football football player for the 2019 season.

    Anae has been getting a lot of hype from both college football writers and draft analysts as of late, and it might be compensation for being pretty darn underrated over the last two years for the Utes while picking up 14 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks in 2019. "Anae is an explosive athlete on the edge who’s too quick for most offensive tackles to deal with," the SI editors write, "and he’ll return this fall as part of a defense that has a real chance to be top-15 in the country for a second-straight year."

    Jul 11, 2019, 9:00 PM ET
     

 

 

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1 hour ago, VaK9Trainer said:

 

The key is making Miami believe that we have offers for the 2nd spot ( and we very well might) and make them believe that we are okay with trading down for more picks so that they panic and move up to guarantee that they get Tua.  I think that this is a lot more likely scenario than many on here think. Miami was in tank mode all year for Tua. They aren't going to lose the chance to get him!  

 

 

Right and in the process we give up probably the best pass rushing prospect to come out in a decade. I'm assuming that Miami doesn't believe we're stupid enough to pass on Chase Young, and I certainly hope we're not actually stupid enough to do it. If Miami calls I'd say "give me your entire draft plus your first next year and it's a deal", then they go "wut?? gtfo noob" and hang up. Then I chuckle and do exactly what i had planned...stay at 2 and draft Chase. If Miami is actually going to look into trading up I think it's far more likely that they'll be calling up Detroit than us (since, again, they probably assume we're not complete morons). They might test the waters but probably nothing serious. IMO this draft actually starts at pick 3. 

 

I don't want them to try and get cute. Stay at 2, draft Chase Young. Sit back, grab a beer, and smile for a full day...maybe give the Giants a quick call to thank them for beating us. We can send them a gift basket or something. Then get back into the mix when the 3rd rolls around. This draft is really deep at some good positions so there will still be plenty of talent to be had.

Edited by mistertim
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Haskins and KJ Hill going back and forth on twitter about getting him to DC. God I hope we can make that happen at the top of R3. 
 

shoot the only thing that could get me on bord for a trade down is if we were able to land Hill, Thaddeus Moss, Charles and Cushenberry between R2 and R4 with any added picks. 

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1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I can't say from film, but just on size...I seriously doubt it.  Unless it's a 4-3 Under Front, but then at that case, Chase Young would play that anyways.  He measured in at the Senior Bowl at 6'5 and 3/8ths, and 258 lbs.

 

He's not a Tremaine Edmunds or Brian Urlacher level of mover in space at those sizes.


They both played in the a Catholic league, we need each.

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Just watched three games of Hill.  I think he will be a decent/good player but I'd be surprised if he's McLaurin level great mainly because he's more of an underneath guy.   Also compared to McLaurin -- IMO not as fast, as elusive, as physical, as a deep threat, as good a run blocker.

 

It looks like this season they had Hill take over the Campbell role as to being the go to guy with screens.  He was decent with the ball in his hands but nothing special/explosive. He was no Parris Campbell on that front. 

 

If you get him in the 4th round, I think he might be a really good get.   He's a bit different stylistically from Crowder but he reminds me of him in some ways as to what caliber type of player he is where its feels like he has a high floor but not the highest ceiling. 

 

He played in the games I watched purely at slot.  I got no idea if he can beat press and I suspect based on his size and he doesn't seem to always play that physical -- that he might struggle with it.  So he is likely better playing slot.  In the two 2019 games I watched, he played outside receiver in 2 receiver sets but they mostly ran out of those sets.  On an aside Dobbins is one fast dude or at least he looks that way to me, when he has a crease, he's gone.  Hill isn't a bad pass blocker, he's not physical like a Garcon or McLaurin on that front but he's a willing blocker who locks into his assignment.

 

i haven't though digested all the Senior Bowl stuff yet, I get he's getting rave views.  I'll watch the game on Saturday and maybe that will jack up my assessment.  My most optimistic assessment is maybe he has some Stephon Diggs in him.  He's about the same size.  And he can make acrobatic catches like him.  He doesn't seem though to have the catch radius of Diggs.   But you never know -- he could be developing that way.  Like McLaurin he's an older receiver for a draftee, will be 24 next season.  He gets open/good separation skills which is the trait i value most in a receiver. 

 

I like that Haskins wants him.  Hill's best year was with Haskins.  He's great with the shallow crossers-mesh route stuff that Haskins seems to thrive with.  But if Sims ends up being a good slot guy, I wonder if Hill's play can translate to Z?  And I have a hard time guessing on that front.

 

The first two clips is him getting underneath and catching balls in front of the infallible-superman Isaiah Simmons. 😀 The last one is a still I pulled from a highlight reel I watched, one hander.  He had a one handed in practice today that got some buzz, so I gather he's got that one hand acrobatic gene. 

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-01-23 at 8.52.20 PM.png

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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From a WR group perspective, what do we think we need to help the group take the next step.  McLaurin can line up everywhere, but is a natural X.  He can get his own release off, and he can make corners pay for trying to slow him at the line.

 

Can Steven Sims?  Can Harmon?  Can they be X's?  Sims seems like he's got something going at slot.  Can he also line up at Z?  He seems like he's got some wheels.

 

Can Harmon fulfill some plays as a Slot?  A big slot like Cooper Kupp who can down block linebackers or Edge guys long enough for an outside run to work?

 

Do we have someone who can be an effective Z?  Is Harmon better as a sub package guy because he can't do a X, Z, or Slot well enough?

 

In the draft, I'm fine looking at WR's who can be a slot guy, or an X, but I think for them to really help out WR unit, they need to be able to play the Z.

 

Can KJ Hill do more than slot?  If his tape doesn't show that, and it's just a projection for us, then (to me) it drops his draft grade down.  The uncertainty adds risk.

 

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Yeah, I think we may find better value (at wr) if we picked up a guy that has proven they can play on the outside.  Better yet, someone that can play two different spots (Z and slot, or Z and X) in case Sims or McLaurin miss any time.  
Partially depends on how FA plays out too, IMO.  We might lean toward a LB, RB, corner, S, TE or an OL at that point.   I think there will be some legitimate talent available in the middle rounds.  
 

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For the record I’m not looking for a second year of finding a McLuarin. But I’d be cool with finding a solid outside WR or slot guy. Hill was apparently lining up on the outside at practice and doing well so I don’t think he’s purely slot. That’s just what they had him play. 
 

I am also cool with a repeat of the 2019 draft at WR. Hit a talented upside guy in the 3/4 round and come back in Round 5/6/7 (if we trade back and get a 6) and get a guy that drops ala Harmon. 
 

if we add picks that’s the route I go. WR/TE/WR in the middle rounds. 
 

I wonder where Moss will go. I really want him. 

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37 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

For the record I’m not looking for a second year of finding a McLuarin. But I’d be cool with finding a solid outside WR or slot guy. Hill was apparently lining up on the outside at practice and doing well so I don’t think he’s purely slot. That’s just what they had him play. 
 

I am also cool with a repeat of the 2019 draft at WR. Hit a talented upside guy in the 3/4 round and come back in Round 5/6/7 (if we trade back and get a 6) and get a guy that drops ala Harmon. 
 

if we add picks that’s the route I go. WR/TE/WR in the middle rounds. 
 

I wonder where Moss will go. I really want him. 

 

I'm high on Moss, too, but the injuries are a concern for me.

 

I think we will have a good choice available at TE in round 3. I almost think they have to pull the trigger then. Rookie + Hentges + Sprinkle is a decent TE group. 

 

I didn't love Hill when watching the Senior Bowl stuff on NFLN. Specifically, in the red zone, he struggled with separation. 

Edited by KDawg

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51 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

For the record I’m not looking for a second year of finding a McLuarin. But I’d be cool with finding a solid outside WR or slot guy. Hill was apparently lining up on the outside at practice and doing well so I don’t think he’s purely slot. That’s just what they had him play. 
 

I am also cool with a repeat of the 2019 draft at WR. Hit a talented upside guy in the 3/4 round and come back in Round 5/6/7 (if we trade back and get a 6) and get a guy that drops ala Harmon. 
 

if we add picks that’s the route I go. WR/TE/WR in the middle rounds. 
 

I wonder where Moss will go. I really want him. 

I think Steven Sims is that slot guy.  

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@KDawg I agree with TE in the 3rd or 4th. But if we land Hooper or Henry or even Ebron I think you’re a little less desperate. That rookie TE is more of a pick for 2021 and beyond anyway. Probably limited impacts in 2020 just by the nature of the position. 
 

Moss would be run as hell to watch though. Between him and Chase you’d be adding 2 physical freaks to the team 

 

Speaking of Chase. How many on here have actually gone and watched his highlight packages on YouTube? My. God. Is it too soon to buy his jersey?! 

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1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@KDawg I agree with TE in the 3rd or 4th. But if we land Hooper or Henry or even Ebron I think you’re a little less desperate. That rookie TE is more of a pick for 2021 and beyond anyway. Probably limited impacts in 2020 just by the nature of the position. 
 

Moss would be run as hell to watch though. Between him and Chase you’d be adding 2 physical freaks to the team 

 

Speaking of Chase. How many on here have actually gone and watched his highlight packages on YouTube? My. God. Is it too soon to buy his jersey?! 

 

I'm not big on the cost that those TEs would bring vs. what they provide. Henry plays in too few games for my liking, given the extent of injuries we have had. Ebron is invisible for long stretches. Hooper may get franchised/he's going to be expensive and I don't think his cost is equal to his impact. I like Hentges/Sprinkle more than most as a combo, but agree something needs to be done there. Moss would be perfect, but I'm not sure he's there in 3. But I think someone of the Moss/Trautman/Hopkins/Kmet grouping will be. 

 

I've watched a lot of Chase. He's great. Going to bring some excitement. 

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Rumor has it that Cincy is falling in love with Justin Herbert... I can't imagine being the one to make this decision, but could they try to move out of 1 and dance with Miami, moving back to 5, getting a haul of picks, and still getting Herbert?  

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26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm not big on the cost that those TEs would bring vs. what they provide. Henry plays in too few games for my liking, given the extent of injuries we have had. Ebron is invisible for long stretches. Hooper may get franchised/he's going to be expensive and I don't think his cost is equal to his impact. I like Hentges/Sprinkle more than most as a combo, but agree something needs to be done there. Moss would be perfect, but I'm not sure he's there in 3. But I think someone of the Moss/Trautman/Hopkins/Kmet grouping will be. 

 

I've watched a lot of Chase. He's great. Going to bring some excitement. 

I very much agree here.  Though Turner said we’ll be addressing TE via FA (at least I’m pretty sure that’s what he said).  I’m kind of hoping they bring in a cheaper guy that might be just ok (maybe a semi-younger one with some upside?) and look to the draft for more of a pass catching TE with room to grow as a blocker.  

I haven’t gone too much into the TEs, though I really like Harrison Bryant, like Hopkins and Trautman/Kent have gotten nice reviews from people I trust.  Not sure Brycen Hopkins has the size/ability to make it as a blocker, but who knows.  Interesting that Okwuegbunam seems to have fallen a bit - seemed like he was consistently near the top just a few weeks ago....

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9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If you get him in the 4th round, I think he might be a really good get. 

 

Excellent post about KJ Hill, and I think you're right about his draft value.  I like the player too, but think there are probably about 15 receivers who are comfortably ahead of him in the class.

 

Tier 1 - Lamb and Jeudy

Tier 2 - Higgins and Ruggs

Tier 3 - Hodgins, Justin Jefferson, Tyler Johnson

Tier 4 - Shenault, Lynn Bowden, Collin Johnson, Pittman, Duvernay, Hamler, Aiyuk, Mims

Tier 5 - Bryan Edwards, Juwan Johnson, KJ Hill, Van Jefferson, Gandy-Golden, Peoples-Jones, Juan Jennings, Binjimen Victor

 

Is kind of where I'm at right now.  Still need to watch a lot more of like half of these names, but this is my initial feeling.  I might end up breaking up those big tiers 4 and 5, but I don't have a fine enough feel for most of those guys yet to do so in a coherent way.

 

Hill was supposed to have something of a breakout season, but Olave kind of stole the show and proved to be the better player.  But there is also enough of a track record there for Ohio State receivers being significantly more productive players in the NFL, such that you can't write one of them off for mildly disappointing production while in school.

 

Thinking about it, there could be a similar effect going on with Michigan players.  Peoples-Jones was the #1 WR in this absolutely ridiculous 2017 WR recruiting class.  The year before, Gary was the #1 player in the entire class.  Patterson was the #4 guy.  Harbaugh is an awful coach.  How many high profile recruits have come through Michigan and actually lived up to expectations or, God forbid, gotten better?  10%?

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19 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Rumor has it that Cincy is falling in love with Justin Herbert... I can't imagine being the one to make this decision, but could they try to move out of 1 and dance with Miami, moving back to 5, getting a haul of picks, and still getting Herbert?  

Really feels like that would be a terrible move for them, but you gotta go with the guy you feel most comfortable with.  If that nets them additional picks to upgrade the team... well, good luck to them.  
 

@stevemcqueen1 Thoughts on where Proche falls on your list?  And Gabriel Davis?  Also, I really liked what I saw from Pittman, stood out to me, though I’ve only seen limited tape.  

Edited by skinny21

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18 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Rumor has it that Cincy is falling in love with Justin Herbert... I can't imagine being the one to make this decision, but could they try to move out of 1 and dance with Miami, moving back to 5, getting a haul of picks, and still getting Herbert?  

 

That feels like a lying season rumor, but never underestimate the base stupidity of bad front offices and coaching staffs when it comes to the QB position.  Mitch Trubisky got picked ahead of DeShaun Watson.  There is no acceptable explanation for that in any universe.  It's an enduring lesson for how god damn stupid so many guys who get paid (quite well) to do this are when it comes to quarterbacks.

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7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 Thoughts on where Proche falls on your list?  And Gabriel Davis?  Also, I really liked what I saw from Pittman, stood out to me, though I’ve only seen limited tape.  

 

I haven't watched Proche, so I can't say and I left him off my list on purpose.  I love Proche's career production, I'm looking forward to watching him.  Davis is interesting given his size and production but my brief impression of him was that he is slow.  Maybe a high 4.6 guy.  Needs quite a runway to get rumbling and looks like his hips are very stiff and changing directions is a real challenge for him.  There is subtlety to his movement at the top of his stem and economy to his movement after the catch, but enough to compensate for substandard athleticism against NFL man coverage talent?  It felt like a lot of his vertical separation was coming after the QB read, or from botched zone coverages.  So he's a good seam-reader and does a good job adjusting the route accordingly, which is a skill that translates.  But I project that the outside vertical element which is a big part of his game now might not travel with him to the NFL, and that's going to have to eat based on his short and middle of the field game.  If he can keep getting open against the press at the next level, then he's got an NFL future.  Tier five seems reasonable for him.  I could see him being better than some of the guys in that group, like Gandy-Golden or Victor or Juwan Johnson.

 

Pittman is a good and versatile and tough player.  He's big and he's slick.  There is suddenness to his breaks and he can run a big tree.  Torching Utah like he did was special.  Multiple NFL caliber DBs in that secondary who are strong man coverage defenders.  Not even Hodgins could get open and make plays on them.  Admittedly, part of that was Utah put Jaylon Johnson on Tyler Vaughns and Hodgins didn't have teammates who were better than him to draw the defense's attention like Pittman did.  Tareke Lewis is still a decent player though, and Pittman just utterly destroyed him.  If you're drafting Pittman, you're probably getting him in the third or fourth round and you're not really expecting him to come in and be your top receiver, generating wins against the opposing defense's best corner.

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@stevemcqueen1 Yeah, I haven’t watched Proche either.  Nice breakdown of Davis/Pittman.  Pittman is surprisingly sudden for a dude that size, and I love his blocking.
Good call on the route tree, I hadn’t really picked up on that.  That and his blocking should help him jump right in.  I think he can challenge Harmon at Z (he’s more dynamic and probably a decent bit faster than Harmon) and serve as insurance in case McLaurin misses time.  

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Rewatching that Pittman game against Utah, I thought a turning point was when Nurse took over man coverage responsibilities on Pittman.  The damage had been done by then, unfortunately.  And I definitely find myself wondering where was Nurse in the first half.  Suspended?  Looked like the adjustment was to shade the safety's zone towards Pittman and have Nurse play a bail coverage that took away Pittman's outside leverage and it worked.  I think Pittman was quiet against that coverage and only made another play when Nurse didn't have him.

 

So this brings up my question about Nurse, why can't I find him on any draft boards?  He's not on TDN's, CBS', or drafttek's boards at all.  Utah's website says he's a senior who transferred from Juco, so he shouldn't have any more eligibility.  This dude looks like Quinton Dunbar out there.  Similar background too.  And conspicuously good in a defensive unit full of NFL caliber players.  If he's flying that far under the radar, this is a potential seventh round heist.

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3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@stevemcqueen1 Yeah, I haven’t watched Proche either.  Nice breakdown of Davis/Pittman.  Pittman is surprisingly sudden for a dude that size, and I love his blocking.
Good call on the route tree, I hadn’t really picked up on that.  That and his blocking should help him jump right in.  I think he can challenge Harmon at Z (he’s more dynamic and probably a decent bit faster than Harmon) and serve as insurance in case McLaurin misses time.  

 

I think he can play inside too as he's got the toughness for it.  Same for Davis.  To my eye, the game just looks easy for Pittman.  He's got multiple gaits and a broad feel for coverages that lends him a ton of versatility.  Big and competitive at the catch point giving him value down the field on the outside.  Shifty and strong after the catch, plus good burst off of those short stems giving him value in that part of the field too.  He's not perfect with his routes as the detail and effort drops when he isn't the design of the play.  But he always seems to play under control and no match up is too intimidating for him.  Third round feels right for him.  He's not a freak of nature like the four first round guys and Hodgins are.  He's not as skilled and sharp as Tyler Johnson.  And he's not the lion that Justin Jefferson is.  But he is comfortably in the tier just below those seven studs.

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Excellent post about KJ Hill, and I think you're right about his draft value.  I like the player too, but think there are probably about 15 receivers who are comfortably ahead of him in the class.

 

Tier 1 - Lamb and Jeudy

Tier 2 - Higgins and Ruggs

 

Tier 3 - Hodgins, Justin Jefferson, Tyler Johnson

Tier 4 - Shenault, Lynn Bowden, Collin Johnson, Pittman, Duvernay, Hamler, Aiyuk, Mims

Tier 5 - Bryan Edwards, Juwan Johnson, KJ Hill, Van Jefferson, Gandy-Golden, Peoples-Jones, Juan Jennings, Binjimen Victor

 

Is kind of where I'm at right now.  Still need to watch a lot more of like half of these names, but this is my initial feeling.  I might end up breaking up those big tiers 4 and 5, but I don't have a fine enough feel for most of those guys yet to do so in a coherent way.

 

Hill was supposed to have something of a breakout season, but Olave kind of stole the show and proved to be the better player.  But there is also enough of a track record there for Ohio State receivers being significantly more productive players in the NFL, such that you can't write one of them off for mildly disappointing production while in school.

 

 

I am 100% with you on the top 4 (first two tiers) and like you I have a slightly preference for Lamb over Jeudy.  

 

As for the next group, I got a lot of work to do as for watching.  I've been hitting the TEs the hardest initially.  I was planning on watching Mims next because the buzz he's getting from the Senior Bowl. 

 

I agree about your point about Ohio State receivers.  By coincidence I debated hard to draft McLaurin on the 2nd day of draft day not on the overall draft thread but on the daily draft threads that were going on then.  So my arguments for him ran strong in my mind when we took him. But I didn't think the dude would be great but a good player.  He's great.   So as much as I liked him, he exceeded my expectations, too. 

 

So yeah watching K. Hill I was a bit hesitant to come up with a global take because like you said he can exceed expectations.  To me it seems unlikely because McLaurin had traits where with hindsight it doesn't seem that crazy that he ended up this good.  The 4.3 and change speed, the sick YPA, a lot of production (TDs) considering he wasn't the go to guy.  Plus with McLaurin he was the dude that was touted to death as for intangibles.  I recall posting a scouting report on that front here. 

 

So for K. Hill to me he doesn't have all the same stuff in the stew.  But at the same time, he's got good chemistry with Haskins and he runs some of the routes that Haskins thrives with and he seems to have really good hands.  I wouldn't bet on him being McLaurin part 2 but I guess you never know.  Anyway if you are taking a receiver in the 4th-5th round range, getting a dude who is solid is a good get.  Hill to me looks at the very least to be solid.

 

This draft is so stacked with receivers that my thing is being part of the party even if just a little.  Grab a receiver in the 4th or 5th, etc or if there is a surprise faller in the 3rd.   There are some O lineman that intrigue me depth wise but they don't tend to fall.   Receivers often do.

 

I suspect with the 2nd pick in the third round there will be a surprise fall that we will be happy with and surprised to see there. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

Rumor has it that Cincy is falling in love with Justin Herbert... I can't imagine being the one to make this decision, but could they try to move out of 1 and dance with Miami, moving back to 5, getting a haul of picks, and still getting Herbert?  

 

The interviews would be interesting.  I've heard a few people say Herbert is a bit eccentric personality wise and not the most outgoing with teammates.  Burrow on the other hand is described with mega intangibles-leadership qualities.  Herbert is so up and down as a QB, too.  I read he's having a good senior bowl though.  

 

But to your point even if they like Burrow over Herbert, if they like Herbert enough maybe a crazy haul of picks would sway them to take their chances.  

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