Welcome to the Redskins Terry Mclaurin WR Ohio State

[goskins10]

13 minutes ago, arftech said:

How in the hell could you leave Bobby Mitchell off the list? 🙄

 

I think most consider him more of a RB - but he was a very good pass catcher so good call. 

[crabbypatty]

7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is jsut not true. He worked his ass off. In the end his game just did not translate. That happens. He could not get enough separation. He was not given chances at 50/50 balls - something he was allowed to do a lot of in college. And he struggled with some of th route combinations - which is where most NFL WRs bust out. 

 

But this idea he had no heart was started by Cooley who then immediately retracted it because it's jsut not true. He had a low key personality but his drive on and off the field was strong. He went from walk on cast away to start and 1st rd draft pick. He came back from several injuries and keep fighting to come back. Kirk and he never got on the same page. 

 

I will not go any further here - nothing to do with you. It's the Terry McC page and I am contributing to getting it derailed.  So I will stop - besides I know I am right...  totally kidding, well not totally maybe just mostly?  🙂   

 

 

I dunno, there was the talk of being homesick, the mystery injury that suddenly popped up and nobody could accurately diagnose, etc.

He did not fit well in the NFL, that much is for sure. I can't lay the blame on Kirk for his lack of production though, because everyone else flourished. Even Alex never looked his way either. So something about him the qb's did not trust/like.

but it is the Terry Mac thread, so I will bow out. I just think Doc was too soft for the NFL. Both mentally and physically.

 

[bakedtater1]

4 hours ago, arftech said:

How in the hell could you leave Bobby Mitchell off the list? 🙄

I knew I was missing one..thanks lol

Edited January 30, 2020 by bakedtater1

[Koolblue13]

17 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

I dunno, there was the talk of being homesick, the mystery injury that suddenly popped up and nobody could accurately diagnose, etc.

He did not fit well in the NFL, that much is for sure. I can't lay the blame on Kirk for his lack of production though, because everyone else flourished. Even Alex never looked his way either. So something about him the qb's did not trust/like.

but it is the Terry Mac thread, so I will bow out. I just think Doc was too soft for the NFL. Both mentally and physically.

 

Doctson, Cravens, Jones, we drafted a few week minded bums when McDrinky was pretend GM. Surprised we hit on Iaon.

[Burgundy Yoda]

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Doctson, Cravens, Jones, we drafted a few week minded bums when McDrinky was pretend GM. Surprised we hit on Iaon.

I don't think any of those guys LOVED football. That's the issue, it seemed like Scot found guys that weren't mentally prepared to work and improve their games. 

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I don't think any of those guys LOVED football. That's the issue, it seemed like Scot found guys that weren't mentally prepared to work and improve their games. 

I don't know if you can say they didn't love football. They might have. I'm a chef. I've met a ton of people who love to cook, even professionally, but just can't because they're just not tough enough to hang at the level I'm at. I think a guy like Cravens probably loved the hype of being a football player, but I also think he had some real personal issues. Doctson wasn't mature enough and matt jones was a ****.

[Conn]

4 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I don't think any of those guys LOVED football. That's the issue, it seemed like Scot found guys that weren't mentally prepared to work and improve their games. 

 

Which is weird because he was the guy who said his success was based on sitting across from players in interviews, looking them in the eye like men, and getting a feel for their character and drive. 

 

Oops. 

 

Those guys all fooled the hell out of him or he just whiffed big time. 

 

It's also ironic because the scouting consultation he's become known for before and after his tenure here, that NFL teams pay money for, doesn't involve meeting the players at all. Just breaking down tape from home. Maybe he's actually better at that and letting the personnel departments he's helping make the call on character.

[Vanguard]

Terry was on the latest Redskins Talk with coach Rivera.  A must see.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 1/30/2020 at 7:15 PM, Burgundy Yoda said:

I don't think any of those guys LOVED football. That's the issue, it seemed like Scot found guys that weren't mentally prepared to work and improve their games. 

 

Kiper among others likes to say if you get 2-3 starters out of a draft, that's really good.  Scot got 5 starters out of that 2015 draft, 2 pro bowlers.  That's an A draft IMO. 

 

2016 I think he might have gotten arrogant perhaps after the 2015 haul.  Supposedly he was bent on Ryan Kelly with the first rounder and I was able to piece together Jarran Reed (from a conversation I had with him) with the 2nd round pick.   Neither happened because they went before our pick.  Sean McVay is untouchable because he's a legend already at a young age, etc -- but I've heard multiple beat guys say he was standing on the table for Doctson and he was a big reason why they took him when Kelly was gone.

 

Ionnaidis was the best pick in that draft but several have said that was Jay standing on the table for him, that was his guy.  I think the best thing that came out of that draft is they traded down in that draft and accumulated three picks for the 2017 draft.   But overall that draft was "meh".  Actually that draft was similar to the typical Shanny draft where they'd end up with 2 starters.  Actually typical Redskins draft period.  Not better.  Not worse.

 

We've gotten a bit spoiled by Kyle Smith.  The 2019 draft might end up historically good.    If you go through though Scot's 2 drafts.  The 2015 was one of the best drafts the Redskins have ever had if you do apples to apples comparisons.  Jarrett was a good pick, it was just bad luck  that he got hurt.  Cooley was screaming in that off season not to put Reiter on the practice squad and that he'd be picked off.  He was right.  The dude is playing in the SB today.  

 

Scot to me was easily better than Scott Campbell who never pulled a draft IMO similar to 2015.  But Kyle IMO is the best we've had.  I am jazzed that he was promoted. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgundy Yoda]

@Skinsinparadise Good post, I agree that if you get 3 contributing players in a draft you had a good one. Now if one of those 3 turned out to be a pro-bowler that's probably a great draft. 

 

2015: Brandon Scherff / Preston Smith / Jamison Crowder / Quinton Dunbar (does he count?)

 

That draft was a great haul for us. Pro-bowl guard, 12 sack player, and an 800-yard slot receiver in the 4th is awesome, and a #1 CB that just happened to be an undrafted WR. 

 

I think my issue with Scot was that it seemed like he didn't really listen to other people's opinions too much. 

 

Our 2017 draft players need to step up imo. Jonathan Allen is the only one who's been any good. We all kind of knew Ryan Anderson was a reach, but Fabian Moreau and Montae Nicholson I don't think would classify as true "starters". 

 

2018 is too early to evaluate still, but after this next year I think we'll kind of get a "feel" for how these players are and will turn out. I think this class depends entirely on Guice. If Guice becomes a 1200+ yard RB I'd consider this a very good class with Payne, Guice, Settle, and SDH. 

 

2019 looks amazing, could be the best draft we've had in 20 years, better than 2000, 2004, 2012, and 2015. Looking back at some of those drafts in the early 2000's it's astounding how little draft picks we had. I'm a big fan of Kyle Smith and the work he's done, he's a professional and takes his job very seriously. I listened to an interview with him last year and I was pretty amazed at how in depth he was about his evaluation process. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

@Skinsinparadise 

I think my issue with Scot was that it seemed like he didn't really listen to other people's opinions too much. 

 

 

I am not sure that was the case with Scot though.  I've talked about it many times, I won an auction where I got to have lunch with Scot.  I talked to him for two hours and he told me multiple times how much he respected Jay's opinion and how they shared opinions with each other on college players.

 

Like I said I heard multiple times that Sean McVay stood on the table for Doctson.  I am sure Scot liked him, too.  But I wonder if he was pushed on it some.  What makes me wonder is the reporter he was tightest with was Jason Cole who said (before that draft) that Scot's favorite receiver was Michael Thomas.  I could be misremembering but I am pretty sure I read that.  I'll see one day if I can dig that one up.

 

I think an underrated part of that 2016 draft was them giving up their 4th rounder and accruing 3 picks for the 2017 draft.  It's something this team doesn't do that often -- moving picks from one draft to another. 

 

Scot I think had to go because of his antics.  But I somewhat cringe whenever I hear a media type slam Scot for the 2016 draft as if it was unforgivable when those same reporters attack Dan for being rash.  You want to give a FO IMO at least 4 drafts to build a team.  One great draft IMO and one "meh' draft doesn't = adios.  Unless we are old school George Steinbrenner.  The best GMs have just about all had some lemon drafts in the soup and yes its forgivable other big name GMs ala John Schneider have had some stinkers.   Heck Schenider had two bad drafts in a row yet he's still mostly crowned as the best GM in the league.  Ballard initially got a lot of hype (like Scot did) but it didn't start off that hot for him as to building a winner.  Now he's talked about in the same breath as Schneider.

 

As for Scot, like I said he had to go because of his drinking issues/antics.  I read he gave up the booze and is on a health kick.  Good for him.  My overriding impression from meeting him was he is a great person.  Super nice guy.

 

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

@Skinsinparadise 

Our 2017 draft players need to step up imo. Jonathan Allen is the only one who's been any good. We all kind of knew Ryan Anderson was a reach, but Fabian Moreau and Montae Nicholson I don't think would classify as true "starters". 

 

 

 

Yeah the 2017 draft isn't aging well.  It's not terrible though either.  I'd say its good though but not great and not living up to its initial hype.

 

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

@Skinsinparadise 

2018 is too early to evaluate still, but after this next year I think we'll kind of get a "feel" for how these players are and will turn out. I think this class depends entirely on Guice. If Guice becomes a 1200+ yard RB I'd consider this a very good class with Payne, Guice, Settle, and SDH. 

 

 

Early returns to me are really good.  I don't fault a GM for an injury unless that player was mega injury prone in college.  Guice had an injury at LSU but I wouldn't call him then injury prone.  So if Guice looks really good but doesn't quite come together because of injuries to me that's not on Kyle.  Just like IMO the career ending injury for Jarrett isn't on Scot -- that pick was a hit.  If we are evaluating personnel guys we can just judge them for the quality of the play not what fortune ensues once they hit the NFL unless said player was an injury risk from the start.

 

I like Payne but thought it was a mistake to take him over Derwin James.  Doug admitted there was a split in the room about the pick and on my end making an educated guess based on what Doug said I suspect Kyle and Jay were team Derwin James.  Settle looks like a nice find.  Ditto SDH.   Aside from them you got some decent role players.   It's looking good IMO.

 

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

@Skinsinparadise 

2019 looks amazing, could be the best draft we've had in 20 years, better than 2000, 2004, 2012, and 2015. Looking back at some of those drafts in the early 2000's it's astounding how little draft picks we had. I'm a big fan of Kyle Smith and the work he's done, he's a professional and takes his job very seriously. I listened to an interview with him last year and I was pretty amazed at how in depth he was about his evaluation process. 

 

2019 looks killer.  Will see sometimes drafts look great and then over time not so much (see 2011 draft) but I have a good feeling about this one.

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgundy Yoda]

 @Skinsinparadise I didn't know that about Scot. I always kind of knew Jay had an eye for talent, but I didn't know Scot had a high opinion of his ability to scout players and find talent. 

 

Back to the 2018 draft, I don't think the team anticipated Matt Ioannidis being as good as he currently is. He came off a 4.5 sack season but I'm going to guess they thought he wouldn't have seasons where he got much more than that. They were wrong and I'm pretty sure Derwin James would have been the pick if they knew Ioannidis was such a stud. We would still have an amazing DL core with Young, Ioannidis, Allen, and Sweat. Plus we would still have Settle for spot duty along with Derwin James in the secondary, hard not to picture it and seeing it being a better situation. Payne is still awesome though and could be our best DT sooner than later. Athletically he's on a different level than the other 2 guys. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 @Skinsinparadise I didn't know that about Scot. I always kind of knew Jay had an eye for talent, but I didn't know Scot had a high opinion of his ability to scout players and find talent. 

 

Back to the 2018 draft, I don't think the team anticipated Matt Ioannidis being as good as he currently is. He came off a 4.5 sack season but I'm going to guess they thought he wouldn't have seasons where he got much more than that. They were wrong and I'm pretty sure Derwin James would have been the pick if they knew Ioannidis was such a stud. We would still have an amazing DL core with Young, Ioannidis, Allen, and Sweat. Plus we would still have Settle for spot duty along with Derwin James in the secondary, hard not to picture it and seeing it being a better situation. Payne is still awesome though and could be our best DT sooner than later. Athletically he's on a different level than the other 2 guys. 

 

I like Payne, I think he's far from awesome.  He's an awesome talent but not an awesome player just yet.  Derwin James was an All Pro first team player -- something that Dan has never had in his whole tenure aside from a punter.  Hopefully, Payne evolves into a great player.

 

the players I have the most faith in become great players would be Guice and McLaurin.  After them:  Sweat, Payne, Allen, Ionnaidis.  Hopefully that comes to pass.  Will see.  😀

[RandyHolt]

On 1/30/2020 at 11:18 PM, ConnSKINS26 said:

....

Oops. 

 

Those guys all fooled the hell out of him or he just whiffed big time. ...

 

Or, he was wasted. And thus, loved everyone. I love you, man.

 

The guys we drafted were just the interviews he remembered.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[skinny21]

@Burgundy Yoda - a few points re. the 2017 draft...

 

Worth remembering Roullier is a solid starter.  

I’m with you in that we could really use some of these guys stepping up. 
I’m not holding out much hope for Nicholson, though I do have to wonder whether better coaching/scheme and players in front of him can help him up his game.  He’s at least shown decent range, tackling and hands.  Pretty much ditto Moreau.  

JHC hasn’t done much besides earning the dimebacker role and then losing PT.  I’m not writing him off quite yet though - I want to see if he can contribute under this staff.  

 

Robert Davis didn’t really do anything for us either (besides some  preseason catches), but earning a starting bid for another team, albeit due to injury, is something anyway.  I’ll be interested to see how things go for him from here.  
 

I kind of liked Holsey a bit, but injuries have been a problem IIRC.  
 

Overall, a pretty underwhelming draft to this point, but circumstances have afforded them a surprising amount of playing time.  Hmm... speaking of which, have all of them started games?  
The fact that our 2018 class has gotten so much PT (and a fair number of starts) makes it pretty easy to argue these two classes have looked better than they really are due to the amount of injury issues we’ve had.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

5 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@Burgundy Yoda - a few points re. the 2017 draft...

 

Worth remembering Roullier is a solid starter.  

I’m with you in that we could really use some of these guys stepping up. 
I’m not holding out much hope for Nicholson, though I do have to wonder whether better coaching/scheme and players in front of him can help him up his game.  He’s at least shown decent range, tackling and hands.  Pretty much ditto Moreau.  

JHC hasn’t done much besides earning the dimebacker role and then losing PT.  I’m not writing him off quite yet though - I want to see if he can contribute under this staff.  

 

Robert Davis didn’t really do anything for us either (besides some  preseason catches), but earning a starting bid for another team, albeit due to injury, is something anyway.  I’ll be interested to see how things go for him from here.  
 

I kind of liked Holsey a bit, but injuries have been a problem IIRC.  
 

Overall, a pretty underwhelming draft to this point, but circumstances have afforded them a surprising amount of playing time.  Hmm... speaking of which, have all of them started games?  
The fact that our 2018 class has gotten so much PT (and a fair number of starts) makes it pretty easy to argue these two classes have looked better than they really are due to the amount of injury issues we’ve had.  

Good post, I forgot about Roullier. What's the opinion on him so far, is he good enough for the C position not to be a primary need? 

 

Nicholson I think can really shine next season, the ability is there. Size, speed, strength at the FS position, he just has to put it all together and stop with penalties (Not sure how he was in 2019 compared to 2018 with these). 

[Warhead36]

Roullier is fine as a starting C. The Chiefs won a Super Bowl with former Skin practice squadder Austin Reiter as starting C.

 

You don't need five 1st round Pro Bowlers on your OL to be good. Just five guys who fit well together and a scheme that works.

 

I mean other than Joe Staley who's like 35, who is the big name high draft pick on the 49ers OL? And they had a dominant run game.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Good post, I forgot about Roullier. What's the opinion on him so far, is he good enough for the C position not to be a primary need? 
 

Thanks.  I’d say Roullier’s been pretty good.  Got some good grades from PFF.  I think @Warhead36 made a good point about him and olines.  

Quote

 

Nicholson I think can really shine next season, the ability is there. Size, speed, strength at the FS position, he just has to put it all together and stop with penalties (Not sure how he was in 2019 compared to 2018 with these). 

Yeah, I’m trying to stay objective regarding Nicholson.  As easy as it is to slam him, he’s done some good things and shown well at times.  Other times he looks like he guesses (wrongly) too often and isn’t a... heady player.  I do think, as you said, he’s got sufficient physical skills to be a good safety, he needs help via personnel and coaching/scheme though (and zero guarantee that’s enough).  Here’s hoping.  

One random tidbit that caught my attention was Collins talking about Apke starting and essentially said that Apke has to stay at FS the whole time whereas Nicholson was more interchangeable (ie. being able to come up in the box).  I got the sense it was maybe more about experience than anything, but still found it interesting.  

Edited February 5, 2020 by skinny21

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Thanks.  I’d say Roullier’s been pretty good.  Got some good grades from PFF.  I think @Warhead36 made a good point about him and olines.  

Yeah, I’m trying to stay objective regarding Nicholson.  As easy as it is to slam him, he’s done some good things and shown well at times.  Other times he looks like he guesses (wrongly) too often and isn’t a... heady player.  I do think, as you said, he’s got sufficient physical skills to be a good safety, he needs help via personnel and coaching/scheme though (and zero guarantee that’s enough).  Here’s hoping.  

One random tidbit that caught my attention was Collins talking about Apke starting and essentially said that Apke has to stay at FS the whole time whereas Nicholson was more interchangeable (ie. being able to come up in the box).  I got the sense it was maybe more about experience than anything, but still found it interesting.  

I'll have to go back and see that post you're talking about. 

 

I think with Nicholson and others were just seriously confused in that defense. You could actually see the confusion at times on the defensive side of the ball before the ball was hiked. Nicholson is probably a player that coaches need to put in position that requires him to just play ball and not have to think about a thing but covering your man or supporting the run game. I know it isn't that easy, but he's a guy that needs a simplified non-complex role. 

 

Apke has improved a promising amount in my opinion since he his 2018 rookie year. I just don't see the natural ability that Nicholson has.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'll have to go back and see that post you're talking about. 
 

I meant the post just above mine you quoted - about not needing all superstars on the line.  

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

I think with Nicholson and others were just seriously confused in that defense. You could actually see the confusion at times on the defensive side of the ball before the ball was hiked. Nicholson is probably a player that coaches need to put in position that requires him to just play ball and not have to think about a thing but covering your man or supporting the run game. I know it isn't that easy, but he's a guy that needs a simplified non-complex role. 
 

Confusion was definitely an issue, yeah.  Lot of mistakes/poor coverage by the corners too during Nicholson’s tenure, which you have to think makes a safety’s job that much harder.  I also recall a metric showing how we were not good at getting quick pressure on the qb... which also isn’t good for a safety.  
Cooley had some favorable breakdowns of Nicholson when he was playing behind Breeland/Norman/Fuller, so hopefully addressing the above issues will make a significant difference.  I am also not sure how good Nicholson’s instincts are...

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Apke has improved a promising amount in my opinion since he his 2018 rookie year. I just don't see the natural ability that Nicholson has.

He did better than I expected when he got into games.  One of the knocks on him was taking poor angles to the ball carrier and I haven’t really noticed if this has improved or not.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

It really is true that he does not like the nickname given him.

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I vote for the name McTerry McLaurin. 

 

McTerry McLaurin like the McRib is adored half year and missed the other half. Have McDonalds sponsor the hell out of him and call it a day. With our uniforms it's a match made in heaven. 

 

A good one I saw: Terrifying Terry (now you'll be really scary, Terry) 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[RabidFan]

On 2/2/2020 at 12:50 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 Sean McVay is untouchable because he's a legend already at a young age, etc -- but I've heard multiple beat guys say he was standing on the table for Doctson and he was a big reason why they took him when Kelly was gone.

 

Ionnaidis was the best pick in that draft but several have said that was Jay standing on the table for him, that was his guy. 

 

Lotta guys standing on tables.  LOL

 

As you said of Kiper was true, and also that Jay had an eye for talent in Ionidis and wasn't he one that suggested Dunbar move to DB?  I also recall Jay "standing on a table" for Trey Quinn for multiple rounds and we ended up with him in last pick of draft.  And the undrafted Sims Jr has outplayed him and grabbed his starting slot gig. 

 

I'd like to know who was in charge of the undrafted signees over the past 2-4 seasons as we seem to be pretty good at that.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

It really is true that he does not like the nickname given him.

 

 

 

I kinda feel him though. It does sound a little corny and forced. I think what he said is true...nicknames tend to just sort of develop naturally. It was one of Calvin Johnson's teammates that randomly started calling him Megatron because he was so huge and it just sort of stuck. Most nicknames tend to come from random happenings.