Pathetic crowds at home opener

[kleese]

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

 

It wasn't always this way.

 

Disagree... Redskins glory streak started with George Allen in the very early 70s. Prior to that the Redskins had 25+ years of awfulness which included an owner that may have been more detestable than Snyder. Check attendance numbers from 50s and 60s... it’s pretty meh. Yes of course for the 20ish years of glory fans rolled out... Browns fans have never wavered despite far less success than the Redskins overall (even including this past 20 years). 

[ixcuincle]

He right. The Redskins didn't have a winning season from the end of WW2 to the George Allen era. 

 

Imagine that today. That would cripple this fanbase. We can at least point to a winning season at 8-7-1, and before that 9-7. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

22 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Looks like it’s supposed to rain Sunday. Stadium might be pretty empty this week too ?

 

I put the over/under on Packers fans at 30,000.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

16 hours ago, kleese said:

But the truth is Browns fans are just way better than Redskins fans. There is simply no debate about that. It is an incredible fan base. 

 

DC's median income is twice that of Cleveland's. DC fans have entertainment options.

 

DC is an area filled with transplants. In 1980, if your dad moved the family to DC to work in the Department of Grass, you became a Redskins fan because that's what was on tv. In 2018, you can watch whatever team you want and never miss a game.

 

Cleveland also lost their team and that created this creepy traumatized mother vibe in their fanbase. They know the team sucks, but they are terrified that they are going to wake up and find it dead in its crib. Skins fans know that the team isn't going anywhere so they can wait until it's 11-5 to pay attention.

 

[kleese]

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

DC's median high school income is twice that of Cleveland's. DC fans have entertainment options.

 

DC is an area filled with transplants. In 1980, if your dad moved the family to DC to work in the Department of Grass, you became a Redskins fan because that's what was on tv. In 2018, you can watch whatever team you want and never miss a game.

 

Cleveland also lost their team and that created this creepy traumatized mother vibe in their fanbase. They know the team sucks, but they are terrified that they are going to wake up and find it dead in its crib. Skins fans know that the team isn't going anywhere so they can wait until it's 11-5 to pay attention.

 

 

I agree with everything you just said. Basically explaining the reasoning for my opinion. Better, more loyal fans based largely in part due to the reasons you listed. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, kleese said:

 

Browns have also been bad off the field too man. You can’t be THAT bad on the field while simulatenously pleasing the fans off the field. Browns fans aren’t like “you know we are 1-31 the last two years, but man this is an affordable hot dog.”

 

I think if Dorsey was our GM (along with multiple big names in that FO to help him) and we drafted Mayfield -- the stadium would have another vibe to it.

 

Among other things, I think the 1-2 punch of having a real personnel guy and then taking him away and then a real franchise QB with many years likely ahead of him and then taking him away -- has had some impact on this franchise.  If you are going to do that replace both with something similar. 

 

The Browns don't have a running petition online like Redskins fans (last I looked with almost 10,000 signatures) about removing their Team President. 

 

We are going through I think tougher times as for future/hope than the Browns for a change.  Though I agree with your general point, the Browns are the NFL's equivalent of the Cubs -- die hards win or lose.    Having said that I have a book called GM about the Giants GM and he talked about how impressed he was more than any team in the NFC East about the dedication and passion of Redskins fans. 

 

He referred to a meaningless game played at the end of the season at Fedex between the Redskins and Giants and the stadium was packed and it was loud.  The game he was referring to was one of the early Jason Campbell starts back when we thought he might be the goods.  My point is I don't underestimate the power of having a young QB that you are excited by as to giving some overall hope about the future. 

 

I think part of the problem here is we don't have that.  We can talk about having some good drafts.   But if you are old at QB so what?  That's why I wanted to draft a QB this year as opposed to go for a veteran.  I am not blaming Alex on this.  I think he's a good QB.  But I don't think fans think we are going to be world beaters with him unless they see it.  I don't think its an accident that last off season Kirk jerseys in Minny outsold Alex's jersey's here by far.

[kleese]

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think if Dorsey was our GM (along with multiple big names in that FO to help him) and we drafted Mayfield -- the stadium would have another vibe to it.

 

Among other things, I think the 1-2 punch of having a real personnel guy and then taking him away and then a real franchise QB with many years likely ahead of him and then taking him away -- has had some impact on this franchise.  If you are going to do that replace both with something similar. 

 

The Browns don't have a running petition online like Redskins fans (last I looked with almost 10,000 signatures) about removing their Team President. 

 

We are going through I think tougher times as for future/hope than the Browns for a change.  Though I agree with your general point, the Browns are the NFL's equivalent of the Cubs -- die hards win or lose.    Having said that I have a book called GM about the Giants GM and he talked about how impressed he was more than any team in the NFC East about the dedication and passion of Redskins fans. 

 

He referred to a meaningless game played at the end of the season at Fedex between the Redskins and Giants and the stadium was packed and it was loud.  The game he was referring to was one of the early Jason Campbell starts back when we thought he might be the goods.  My point is I don't underestimate the power of having a young QB that you are excited by as to giving some overall hope about the future. 

 

I think part of the problem here is we don't have that.  We can talk about having some good drafts.   But if you are old at QB so what?  That's why I wanted to draft a QB this year as opposed to go for a veteran.  I am not blaming Alex on this.  I think he's a good QB.  But I don't think fans think we are going to be world beaters with him unless they see it.  I don't think its an accident that last off season Kirk jerseys in Minny outsold Alex's jersey's here by far.

 

I agree with the general point that one thing that consistently being bad yields is that you start over at coach and QB. And that generally gets fans excited— at least at first. 

 

Currently we are not in that spot so you don’t have that natural excitement. Personally I’m OK with that because I don’t WANT them to start over yet. I like Jay more than most and consistently being .500 is something that I view as positive incremental step out of the darkness. 

[hail2skins]

1 minute ago, kleese said:

Currently we are not in that spot so you don’t have that natural excitement. Personally I’m OK with that because I don’t WANT them to start over yet. I like Jay more than most and consistently being .500 is something that I view as positive incremental step out of the darkness. 

But at what point do you hold Jay to the same standard you supposedly held Norv to, as I think you mentioned that you were ready to part ways with him after 1997?

 

Or was your impatience with Norv driven that he pretty much immediately followed the glory years, while Jay has followed many years of crap?

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

I agree with the general point that one thing that consistently being bad yields is that you start over at coach and QB. And that generally gets fans excited— at least at first. 

 

Currently we are not in that spot so you don’t have that natural excitement. Personally I’m OK with that because I don’t WANT them to start over yet. I like Jay more than most and consistently being .500 is something that I view as positive incremental step out of the darkness. 

 

I don't really lump Jay in this.  Like you I am ok with Jay.  Conversely, Hugh Jackson isn't a new coach nor do I think the Brown fans are excited by him. 

 

But like Redskins fans, Brown fans have likely become familiar with the idea that the one who picks the groceries is very important.  The Browns got a guy that is considered among the best and with lieutenants under him with big names, too - we got the guy that was ranked the least trustworthy and third least prepared GM in the league. 

[turtle2328]

3 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Fed Ex was half full vs. The Colts, it won't be for the Green Bay game.....there will be Packers fans in those seats if Redskins fans don't show up.

If the ticket office is doing it's job, there will be roughly 57k Redskins fans and hardly any Green Bay fans.

[turtle2328]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think if Dorsey was our GM (along with multiple big names in that FO to help him) and we drafted Mayfield -- the stadium would have another vibe to it.

 

Among other things, I think the 1-2 punch of having a real personnel guy and then taking him away and then a real franchise QB with many years likely ahead of him and then taking him away -- has had some impact on this franchise.  If you are going to do that replace both with something similar. 

 

The Browns don't have a running petition online like Redskins fans (last I looked with almost 10,000 signatures) about removing their Team President. 

 

We are going through I think tougher times as for future/hope than the Browns for a change.  Though I agree with your general point, the Browns are the NFL's equivalent of the Cubs -- die hards win or lose.    Having said that I have a book called GM about the Giants GM and he talked about how impressed he was more than any team in the NFC East about the dedication and passion of Redskins fans. 

 

He referred to a meaningless game played at the end of the season at Fedex between the Redskins and Giants and the stadium was packed and it was loud.  The game he was referring to was one of the early Jason Campbell starts back when we thought he might be the goods.  My point is I don't underestimate the power of having a young QB that you are excited by as to giving some overall hope about the future. 

 

I think part of the problem here is we don't have that.  We can talk about having some good drafts.   But if you are old at QB so what?  That's why I wanted to draft a QB this year as opposed to go for a veteran.  I am not blaming Alex on this.  I think he's a good QB.  But I don't think fans think we are going to be world beaters with him unless they see it.  I don't think its an accident that last off season Kirk jerseys in Minny outsold Alex's jersey's here by far.

The new QB, coach and front office have little impact on the season ticket base. Did any of you buy season tickets because they drafted Campbell, RGIII, hired Marty, Mike, Bruce or Scott?

I'd argue winning isn't even a thing. We had sellouts before we were good as do other teams. And if the only way to secure season ticket holders to have what amounts to unrealistic winning results, the entire league is busted and doomed. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, turtle2328 said:

The new QB, coach and front office have little impact on the season ticket base. Did any of you buy season tickets because they drafted Campbell, RGIII, hired Marty, Mike, Bruce or Scott?

 

 

I am not in position to buy season tickets being in South Florida.  But I've read posts of people who have season tickets who are very unhappy about Bruce, some gave up their tickets and posted why in an a WP article and it included their issues with Dan and Bruce.  

 

Clearly the enthusiasm about the team was higher in 2012 for example than now -- so not getting what's your point by those references --  is it that enthusiasm and season ticket sales aren't interlinked?  If so the Redskins PR team are wasting their time with all their promos because they certainly act like selling the team and buying season tickets go hand in hand.  Heck they hired Brian Lafemina to specifically address this issue and let him do a media tour including going on 106.7 and 980 to push season ticket sales. 

 

\

13 minutes ago, turtle2328 said:

 

I'd argue winning isn't even a thing. We had sellouts before we were good as do other teams. And if the only way to secure season ticket holders to have what amounts to unrealistic winning results, the entire league is busted and doomed. 

 

Not sure I understand the point.  Are you saying the problem isn't how the team operates nut its instead that fans have gotten oddly obtuse and unrealistic about their expectations about this team?

[skins2victory]

The Browns had 8 first round picks from 2012 - 2016. All are off the team. They have not been winning on or off the field, but there fans still show up to give there team a home field advantage.

 

2012: Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden (both out of NFL)
2013: Barkevious Mingo (Seahawks)
2014: Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel (both out of NFL)
2015: Danny Shelton (traded to Patriots), Cam Erving (viewed as bust, now with Chiefs)
2016: Corey Coleman (traded to Bills)

 

 

 

 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In the NFL, you sell one of three things: wins, hope, or inertia. The Skins sold inertia for a very long time. That seems to have ended at the exact moment that there isn't a hell of a lot to be hopeful for.

[hail2skins]

Despite the struggles since 1992, the Redskins were able to parlay the lingering good feelings from the glory years, a new stadium with more capacity, and pulling Joe Gibbs out of the hat in 2004 to pretty much keep FedEx filled for its first 10 years.

 

Then the Zorn/Vinny thing blew up with the mailing of the "fan cards" to Ashburn. I remember people complaining about the end zone scoreboards and the lame excuses about we couldn't install new ones because of wiring issues, etc. But voila, before the 2010 season, new scoreboards magically appear.  Then the Shanny/McNabb debacle, seats start to be ripped out, and the mediocrity has continued.

 

I think the attendance embarrassment last Sunday is likely attributed to three factors, from least to most relevant:

 

1) Caps winning the Cup and people deciding they are going to spend their fall sports entertainment dollars at Capital One instead of FedEx

2) The bad feelings over the Cousins departure led to a season ticket bleed

3) The team's new strategy of limiting the amount of sale to brokers and the resultant price increase on the secondary market, having your casual non-STH to look at a considerably more expensive Stubhub ticket than they were paying for over the last few years and go. "uh...……..no"

[Momma There Goes That Man]

3 hours ago, ixcuincle said:

Imagine that today. That would cripple this fanbase. We can at least point to a winning season at 8-7-1, and before that 9-7. 

 

8-7-1 is not a winning season. That we have to point to that as one of our hallmark seasons of the last decade + is a large part of the problem 

[RandyHolt]

We finally graduated past painted dirt, but the forces in play are likely too strong.  The decades of failure and ineptitude at Fledex are nothing to scoff at. In particular of course our horrid record in prime time and on the big stage. The opposition fans taking over seems to get worse even year to year. We are damaged goods.  And Sean passing was a huge kick in the nuts as guys like him filled the seats. As can a young QB.  We decided on a steady hand.

 

At least our beloved Ovi finally hoisted the cup. I think that may have eaten into some Redskins tickets as well.

[max21]

I’ve been to many games at FedEx, after going to several hockey games last year and even going to one of the Stanley Cup final games I want to spend my hard earned money at Capital one. It is a much better and exciting experience, A LOT more fun. 

[kleese]

2 hours ago, hail2skins said:

But at what point do you hold Jay to the same standard you supposedly held Norv to, as I think you mentioned that you were ready to part ways with him after 1997?

 

Or was your impatience with Norv driven that he pretty much immediately followed the glory years, while Jay has followed many years of crap?

 

Without question I was less patient with Norv considering where we were before he took over. Actually though while 1997 swung my perception of him and the team I didn’t want him gone until after 1998.... we basically came full circle... awful when he took over to average to 0-7 in his 5th year— exactly where Jay is now. In his 5th year we took a massive step back and had no playoff seasons to show for it. If Jay goes 5-11 or something this year I will for sure understand letting him go. 

 

One last thing on Norv (because you know I’m a masochist in this subject) the frustration for me was always that we were losing DIRECTLY because of his mistakes or flaws. With Jay I don’t think it’s quite as black and white— more grey area. And I also think Jay has done a better job of building a staff than Norv did— with McVay being a very good example of that. 

[RandyHolt]

26 minutes ago, maxspruill21 said:

I’ve been to many games at FedEx, after going to several hockey games last year and even going to one of the Stanley Cup final games I want to spend my hard earned money at Capital one. It is a much better and exciting experience, A LOT more fun. 

 

True dat I have been a hockey fan all along. We are SO lucky to have gotten Ovi as he was a top entertainer in the sport the past decade. On par with Sean Taylor grade hitting. 5+ per game for 80+ games.  Last year was nothing short of amazing as a fan. The only thing better would have been to win the last game at home.

 

I am happy you got to catch a SCF game. I got into the viewing party for game 5 at least.  But I am not really interested in battling traffic to drive to Fledex. I have been conditioned to know that the 1 big game a year I really want to see, we are going to get shelled on a Monday night with opposition fans everywhere. And then we get home at 130am, angry or hungover.

 

Oshie is a badass as you already know.  I will pay to see him. His work in game 4 was awesome. His monster hit on Letang was a series changer, as he was the worst D on the ice after that. 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

3 hours ago, hail2skins said:

But at what point do you hold Jay to the same standard you supposedly held Norv to, as I think you mentioned that you were ready to part ways with him after 1997?

 

Or was your impatience with Norv driven that he pretty much immediately followed the glory years, while Jay has followed many years of crap?

Norv was and always will be a Cowboy and to my recollection didn't beat the Cowboys..never wanted him here

[Hdf561]

I love the Redskins, but the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze. I get better coverage, better view, more comfortable seat, better food, better and cheaper beer, and cleaner bathroom from my house. The price is way to high, horrible access, parking to high, and personally the tailgating experience isn’t great either by the time you get set up you got to tear down or miss the start of the game that I overpaid for. 

 

All of that and on top of it the on field product sucks! At least IMO the Caps and the Nats games are better experiences even when the product isn’t as good. 

 

The skins have training camp here in Richmond (for now) so I get my close up look there I don’t need to come to Fed Ex for that unless I choose to. I usually try to hit one game a year but the lack of appropriate prices tickets may hinder this year. 

 

Just an opinion....oh and the Caps won the Cup, just go to the NFC championship game and you can charge whatever you want people will come in droves but Snyder doesn’t seem interested in actually winning. 

 

[Destino]

26 minutes ago, Hdf561 said:

At least IMO the Caps and the Nats games are better experiences even when the product isn’t as good. 

Wizards is a better fan experience as well.  It's very positive and happy.  The older I get the less the angry drunk vibe of NFL games appeals to me.  Plus, most of the football season is cold and I would prefer not to be cold if given the option. 

[NoVaSkins21]

This Sunday is probably shaping up to be a green and gold invasion with GB coming in and there's probably going to be a lot of empty again just like last week.  This franchise has regressed so much and the fans are tired of it and letting it show

[RandyHolt]

I am prepared to see all the empty seats from last week, filled this week with cheese heads.

 

Can anyone quantify the most fans we have had stop by? I seem to remember a Pitt game a few years back, as being one of the bigger invasions.  A total guess, maybe 10K.