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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

Vanguard

By Vanguard
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98ORAKPO98

98ORAKPO98

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Had a member of the Redskins tell me Payne is their best defensive lineman and is giving the OL fits. Hasn’t seen a guy challenge Scherff like that in practice. Also mentioned he’s starting at DE, not NT like many thought.

 
 

"Veterans have mentioned the strength that Payne possesses is off the charts… Another mentioned that Payne even looks to be a few weeks ahead of where last year's first-round selection, Jonathan Allen, was heading into training camp." @LakeLewis http://burgundy.blog/DPhype

 

 

Also, heard that the coaches all loved Payne and the FO liked Vita Vea. Wasn’t until both were brought in for workouts that everyone was in agreement Payne was clearly better that Vea.

 

 

I'm just the messenger. But I heard those names in that order. Was told Payne is too good to be at NT. They want him out there more than Allen. Even plan on running defenses around Payne.

 

https://www.redskins.com/news/daron-payne-makes-first-sack-in-debut-previewing-potential

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.richmond.com/sports/redskins/he-s-a-beast-redskins-rookie-daron-payne-turning-heads/article_08ee1389-ced9-5617-8d47-0a3de0f3a001.amp.html

 

Jonathan Allen knew how strong Daron Payne was when they were teammates at Alabama; but in case he forgot, Payne reminded him by squatting 650 pounds the first week he joined the Redskins.

“This was literally the first day he came in,” Allen said. “He just came in and squatted 650, throwing up 400 on bench. I mean, he’s a beast.”

Unlike Allen, Phil Taylor and Ryan Kerrigan didn’t have prior knowledge of Payne. Still, each of them said his strength was what they noticed first about the rookie — the rookie that is expected to be the missing piece on a defensive line that has no choice but to improve this season.

As last year’s first-round pick, Allen had similar expectations placed on him as Payne does this year, except Payne enters a defensive line that ranked last in the NFL last year in run defense.

Much of those defensive struggles had to do with injuries. An injury in Week 5 ended Allen’s rookie season. Taylor missed the entire season with a quad injury. Starting defensive lineman Matt Ioannidis missed multiple games with a broken hand, and defensive tackle Terrell McClain was unavailable for two games with a toe injury.

However, even if Derrius Guice receives much of the attention in Washington’s 2018 draft class, it can’t be understated that Payne must be ready by Week 1 to tighten up the defensive front that the Redskins will need against top-notch offensive lines in the NFC East, such as the Cowboys’.

“What I like about him, and it’s what I like about a lot of rookies, is that you see him, you don’t hear him,” Kerrigan said.

Payne sticks to the script. He talks about how he has to be in the gym every day to get better; how he thinks everyone is working hard. By definition, he’s a team guy.

Taylor said Payne understood the nuances of the position much quicker than he did when he was a rookie five years ago. Adding strength to that equation just puts Payne on a different level than other rookies.

“A lot of the guys in the league aren’t that strong coming in, and a lot of the guys that are on my end and further [in age] aren’t that strong,” Taylor said.

Payne said knowing the playbook by heart is one of his top priorities, but there are elements of the game that he won’t learn without game experience. Until that time, he’s relying on Allen to explain anything into simpler terms only they understand.

“If we’re doing like pass rush games, I know the terminology that we use from Alabama, [Allen] gets to use that to make it comfortable for me, so it’s a bunch of fun,” Payne said.

The Redskins have looked at Payne to be a defensive strength from Day 1. After seeing Payne during workouts, everyone else sees why he’s viewed in that manner.

“Watching him in the weight room, it’s really impressive seeing what he does,” Kerrigan said. “I’m excited to watch him progress throughout camp.”

 

 

 

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98ORAKPO98

98ORAKPO98

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https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/Bolt/Anthony-Lanier-puts-up-huge-numbers-for-Redskins-112404301

 

The Washington Redskins have a new star on their hands.

Defensive tackle Anthony Lanier II has been thrust into the limelight this season due to injures along the defensive line, and he hasn't disappointed. In fact, he's proven that he more than belongs.

Lanier has long been touted as a star in the making by the Redskins staff, with some going as far as to say that the former undrafted free agent is the best natural pass rusher amongst the current crop of defensive linemen. 

 

 

 

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98ORAKPO98

98ORAKPO98

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/redskinswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/04/redskins-dt-matt-ioannidis-showing-promise-during-training-camp/amp/

 

“Matt Ioannidis has been one of the better defensive players here so far,” Lewis said. “Yes, it’s early but you can see he has a different motor this year, seem like he is in great shape and his mental approach to the game is there”.

Ioannidis has been like a heat seeking missile consistently one of the first to flock to the football. He has shown tremendous growth in quickly recognizing where the ball is and making a play.

 

https://owlsports.com/news/2016/1/29/FB_0129162758.aspx


"A defensive linemen that jumped out from Tuesday's practice that I need to keep an eye on today is Temple defensive tackle Matt Ioannidis. Ioannidis measured in at 6-4, 303 pounds and was extremely active during the North practice. There were several snaps where he was in the backfield playing the run as well as working off blocks rushing the passer. Like his teammate, Ohio State's Adolphus Washington, both were extremely disruptive."
-- Bryan Broaddus, DallasCowboys.com
 

"Like Day, Ioannidis was very disruptive from the defensive tackle position on Wednesday, getting into the backfield against the run and the pass. He ranked ninth in overall grades among defensive tackles this season, and fourth in pass-rush grades. It's important that he show well this week against top competition, because his only negative pass-rush grade on the season came against the best offensive line he faced: Notre Dame."
-- Pro Football Focus

"Temple sent three players on defense to Mobile—Tyler Matakevich, Tavon Youngand Ioannidis—and the big defensive tackle was by far the most impressive. The North team offensive linemen struggled with his push and power all week, and he flashed the quickness to chase the quarterback too."
-- Matt Miller, Bleacher Report
 
"At least one NFL defensive coordinator said the 6-foot-3, 303-pound Ioannidishad a "very good day" Tuesday. A projected fifth-round prospect, Ioannidis had 10.5 tackles for losses, 3.5 sacks, four pass breakups and two fumble recoveries this past season."
-- Vaughn McClure, ESPN Atlanta
 
"As the week of practice continues, the scouting community is buzzing over a few players at the game, specificallyMatt Ioannidis of Temple and Ohio State Buckeyes star Braxton Miller….For Ioannidis, one-on-ones have been his time to shine. The Owls defensive standout has been disruptive on every day of practice against an impressive group of offensive linemen. It will be interesting to see how Ioannidis and Miller continue to perform as the week comes to a close, but it is clear that they are among the best, most talked about prospects at this year's edition of the all-star game."
-- Josh Sanchez, CampusSports.net
 
"Three guys the scouts are raving about already: Temple DT Matt Ioannidis, Boise S Darian Thompson, OSU WR Braxton Miller."
-- Ian Rapoport, NFL Network
 
"Temple's Matt Ioannidis has been labeled by many as a player who has most improved his draft stock over the first couple of days."
-- Andrew Gribble, ClevelandBrowns.com

 

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98ORAKPO98

98ORAKPO98

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https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/10/tim-settle-made-his-presence-felt-in-redskins-preseason-debut/

 

The way Tim Settle is able to move around at his size. Whoa. This dude is 335 pounds and moves around like a gap shooting 3T. Straight up monster.
 
 
Greg Gabriel
A DT to take a close look at is Virginia Tech’s Tim Settle. He’s a man! I have a 3rd on him in Draft Guide and it’s too low. He’s more of a 20 to 40 guy. Watched more tape today and he is very talented. I’ll upgrade on
Tim Settle was truly and all-around force for the Hokies in 2017
 
 
Embedded
 
keim_john.png&w=160&h=160&scale=crop

John KeimESPN Staff Writer 

Redskins defensive tackle Tim Settle expressed confidence in what he can do. "If it's 1 on 1, I'm [going to] win every time. If it's 2 on 1, I'm still going to win the majority of them."

 

http://draftanalyst.com/notes-combine-training-settle-looks-cat-quick

 

Another ACC defensive lineman to keep an eye on during the combine is Tim Settle of Virginia Tech, who is presently graded as a third-round choice on our board. While he won’t blister in the 40, I’m told Settle’s 10-yard splits have been fast recently, clocking as low as 1.61.

That’s quick for a guy expected to tip the scales around 325 pounds. By comparison, Eddie Vanderdoes of UCLA had the fastest 10-yard split at last year’s combine, timing 1.69. Rams All-Pro tackle Aaron Donald was clocked at 1.63 when he worked out at the combine.

Settle also timed 7.18 in the three-cone last week. Ryan Glasgow was the fastest a year ago at 7.54.

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/17/meet-tim-settle-the-defensive-line-prospect-who-moves-like-a-linebacker/amp/

 

 

Virginia Tech defensive tackle Tim Settle has no interest in being average. He wants to stand out in everything he does.

At 6’3″ and 335 pounds, standing out isn’t difficult for Settle, who is a force to be reckoned with just off of his size alone. Unlike most humans with his frame, though, he is an incredible athlete. He displays athleticism on tape that players 50 pounds lighter than him would love to have.

 

DW: You’re an incredible athlete for your size. Besides the offseason stuff you did, what do you do to maintain that high level of athleticism?

TS: Growing up, I played running back, so I always had the ball in my hands. You know running backs, you got to be able to outrun people. Running back’s a hard position. I feel like my footwork from me being so young kinda advanced me, and it separates me from the rest of the [defensive] tackles as in how I move. It’s just natural to me. I don’t think I did anything too different, it’s just how smooth I can be. I just try to be smooth.

 

 

 

 

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Bonez3

Bonez3

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Is D line the new 'it' position. I feel like theres some cyclical position (outside of the fixture of QB) that teams pursue for different periods of time in the NFL. They usually predicate championship runs. Seems like LT, CB, RB, WR all have had a top pursuit feel. 

 

After Jax run last year is Dline the new 'it' position to win? They definitely pressured NE to the end and had awesome regular season. Maybe a dominant d front is the catalyst to a championship. Philly Dline was also nasty last year. Between Foles and Bortles, something has to give.

 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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2 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Is D line the new 'it' position. I feel like theres some cyclical position (outside of the fixture of QB) that teams pursue for different periods of time in the NFL. They usually predicate championship runs. Seems like LT, CB, RB, WR all have had a top pursuit feel. 

 

After Jax run last year is Dline the new 'it' position to win? They definitely pressured NE to the end and had awesome regular season. Maybe a dominant d front is the catalyst to a championship. Philly Dline was also nasty last year. Between Foles and Bortles, something has to give.

 

I believe so. The main reason being, its the only position in football where the defense is superior to the offense in terms of athletes. WRs are generally bigger and faster than CBs, TEs are either too big for Safeties and too fast for LBs, and there are some freak QBs and RBs.  But OL outside of a handful aren't great athletes while you have some physical specimen DL. And since secondaries can't really cover or hit due to the rules, your best bet at winning football games is pressuring the opposing QB(on top of having a good QB yourself of course).

 

 

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Morneblade

Morneblade

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1 minute ago, Bonez3 said:

I think Zach Brown should shine this year. What more could he ask for as a primary run stuffing ILB. We're gonna see what he's about one way or the other

 

I think both Foster and Zack will have really good years. Zach might lead the league again.

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Sandy Monk

Sandy Monk

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20 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Anyone feel like we may have got lucky that Tampa took Vea? Payne seems several steps ahead so far.

 

Vita Vea was #1 on my list to Washington by the time he made it to pick #12. I didn't feel Payne was going to offer enough to the pass rush to warrant a top 20 pick. 

 

Man, I will be so happy to chow down on the crow, should it be served this season. :) 

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carex

carex

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1 hour ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Vita Vea was #1 on my list to Washington by the time he made it to pick #12. I didn't feel Payne was going to offer enough to the pass rush to warrant a top 20 pick. 

 

Man, I will be so happy to chow down on the crow, should it be served this season. :) 

 

I think it will.  The highlights I saw had him crashing into the backfield fairly often and just barely missing.  Well a lot of NFL QBs move less than college ones

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KillBill26

KillBill26

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11 hours ago, 98ORAKPO98 said:
 

Had a member of the Redskins tell me Payne is their best defensive lineman and is giving the OL fits. Hasn’t seen a guy challenge Scherff like that in practice. Also mentioned he’s starting at DE, not NT like many thought

 

@Mornebladere: discussion in other thread about Payne's position.  I hope they move them all around as much as possible, given that they are effective, to create more flexibility, give opposition different looks, and to help keep guys fresh

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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We should be thankful for Settle's not so hot combine.  Before that he seemed like a slam dunk 2nd rounder at least judging by mocks back then.

 

https://thebiglead.com/2018/03/06/2018-nfl-combine-draft-winners-losers/2/

Tim Settle

Tim Settle had the defensive line version of Orlando Brown’s workout. The massive Virginia Tech defensive tackle measured in at 6’3″ and 329 pounds, but really struggled during drills.

Settle posted a 5.37-second 40, a 23.5-inch vertical jump and an 8-foot broad jump. He also had a 20-yard shuttle of 4.83 seconds. None of that was good.

Settle likely ranks as one of the top five defensive tackles in this year’s draft, but his lack of agility and athleticism is pretty disappointing. He’ll have a chance to test better at his pro day, and he’ll need to if he wants to add some helium to his stock.

 
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KillBill26

KillBill26

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5 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

So? Guess where he has played in the games? NT and DT.

You mean the preseason games?  So because he hasn't played d end in limited time in 2 preseason games, that means he won't play there in the regular season?  And keeping guys fresh, increasing flexibility, and giving the opposition different looks is a bad idea?  If what was posted is true, that he has been giving the o line fits at d end, why wouldn't you want him to play there?  Because he is our best NT?  Don't you think settle or Taylor should be rotated in at NT too?  

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Sandy Monk

Sandy Monk

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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We should be thankful for Settle's not so hot combine.  Before that he seemed like a slam dunk 2nd rounder at least judging by mocks back then

 

 

Agree, and am thankful. 

 

Prior to the Combine, I loved what I watched of Settle in actual games. Then to see him look lumbering and sloppy at the Combine, not even for me to focus on the numbers, I was confused. 

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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

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2 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

Is D line the new 'it' position. I feel like theres some cyclical position (outside of the fixture of QB) that teams pursue for different periods of time in the NFL. They usually predicate championship runs. Seems like LT, CB, RB, WR all have had a top pursuit feel. 

 

After Jax run last year is Dline the new 'it' position to win? They definitely pressured NE to the end and had awesome regular season. Maybe a dominant d front is the catalyst to a championship. Philly Dline was also nasty last year. Between Foles and Bortles, something has to give.

 

Philly showed everyone how to beat a pass-heavy league with a mediocre secondary, have a great D line.

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Morneblade

Morneblade

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10 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

You mean the preseason games?  So because he hasn't played d end in limited time in 2 preseason games, that means he won't play there in the regular season?  And keeping guys fresh, increasing flexibility, and giving the opposition different looks is a bad idea?  If what was posted is true, that he has been giving the o line fits at d end, why wouldn't you want him to play there?  Because he is our best NT?  Don't you think settle or Taylor should be rotated in at NT too?  

 

First, I have no idea how much he's been at DE, if at all. Going up against Scherff

 

Second of all, I don't think there is much of a chance Taylor makes the team. How many teams carry 3 NT's especially when the 3rd one has not played in 5 years due to injuries?

 

Third, I see Settle in rotation to give Payne a breather, not to have him play DE and take Allen or Io off the field.

 

Just where was it reported that he was giving the OL fits at DE? I saw he gave Scherff a very tough time, but that was in 1 on 1's. That wasn't him lining up at DE. Heck, Payne was playing a 4 tech as a DT (shaded to the outside shoulder of the guard) on his sack. But he was still a DT.

16 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Philly showed everyone how to beat a pass-heavy league with a mediocre secondary, have a great D line.

 

That has always been the case. But people forget sometimes.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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29 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Agree, and am thankful. 

 

Prior to the Combine, I loved what I watched of Settle in actual games. Then to see him look lumbering and sloppy at the Combine, not even for me to focus on the numbers, I was confused. 

 

Jonathan Allen didn't have a bad combine but it wasn't hot either. I think that ironically helped too for him dropping. If Ryan Anderson blossoms this year then we got thank the combine as well -- he had an awful combine. 

 

As for Da'Ron Payne.  I had a weird ride on that one myself.    I touted him right away when the draft thread started last fall on the board, he was my first mention.  I gradually liked some players better than him so wasn't crazy about the pick.  But I said back then, if the dude is what he was versus Georgia in the championship then he will be a stud.  I was a big Derwin James guy.   And didn't love passing over him -- and ditto to a lesser extent Edmonds.

 

Having said that I hope Payne preseason game and camp buzz plays out.  I suspect it will.  But I am not fully sold until it happens during the season -- I think its the scars of J. Jenkins being this monster in 2011 camp sticking with me and that one never bore fruit.

 

I've been an Ionnaidis guy pretty early on.  Ditto Jonathan Allen.   Payne liked him didn't love him -- but love what I've seen-hard so far.  Settle I never watched.  I've read all I could about him -- its a really mixed bag depending on the source -- either he's overrated or underrated but I recall PFF really liked him.  But if Russell is right and Kyle Smith was pounding the table for him in the third round -- I like that.   As for Payne, I recall the draft geek that was really in love with him was Tony Pauline. 

 

As for the rest of the crew.  I like Phil Taylor if he can stay healthy but where does he play?  He's a pure nose.  Lanier to me is a pure pass rushing DT -- and I think that's fine as long as you pick your spots.  Hood I am guessing is going to be a utility infielder type sub -- RDE-LDE-NT. 

 

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carex

carex

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the nice thing about the way the front seven is set up right now is that it even protects some of the depth issue we might have.  Okay, so no one is quite sure about Anderson and McPhee?  Well, the only time we definitely need Kerrigan and Smith i at OLB is when we're in the base 3-4 and that's actually pretty rare. When we're in the nickel and one of them needs a breather it doesn't have to be McPhee or Anderson replacing them.  We can bring in Lanier or Ionnadis or swing Allen out to end and have Settle or Ionnadis take the other DT spot

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