bakedtater1 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, JoggingGod said: This injury makes the Alex Smith trade that much worse. We traded to win now but we can’t even do that now since his most vital weapon is gone. How can you say that without even seeing them play a game together?. outside of the trenches it's all about what happens behind center... And an excellent defense doesn't hurt...I imagine loosing guice will make an impact but I don't think it's seasons over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpig Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 That injury bums me out. Kelley is okay. Perine is Perine. Bibbs may have some flashy plays but Guice looked like he really was going to have an amazing rookie season. Kind of a weird way to tear an ACL, so I assume he was nursing a bad knee as some reports have said. Nice job training staff. I got a feeling that is really going to hurt since he would have made our offense very dynamic. Reed and Thompson will follow suit soon, and Payne wouldn't surprise me. Good lord the amount of ACL tears now. I want to see a statistic on now VS the 90's, 2000-2010 just for reference. When he comes back hopefully he isn't hindered. Some guys lose a step after that. Others have recovered perfectly fine. Either way they best be looking for another RB right now. Kelley and Perine aren't going to cut it IMO. My excitement is shattered now. Go CAPS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, NickyJ said: I probably shouldn't have used the word "durability" there. What I mean is that what Perrine is, and Kelley is supposed to be, is an almost all-downs back that you rely on for most of the games to take hits and keep on churning out yards. I haven't seen enough of Bibbs to judge how healthy he'd stay, but he doesn't seem like he's built to be able to go even most of the game as our lead back. Kelley just makes me cringe. The only way he doesn't end up a starter now is by injury. I've been catching up on some reading about the injury and the Redskins season in that context -- people's opinions seem to be all over the place on it. Usually (not always) if I take time to digest things, I feel more optimistic. It hasn't kicked in yet for me. Feeling if anything worse the more I dwell on it. I saw the floor before the Guice injury as 7-9 and the ceiling as 11-5. At the moment, it feels like the ceiling is 9-7, floor 5-11. Mainly because I hate our match ups now in the NFC East -- all opponents with potentially stellar running games. Tough for me to land on an opinion on the defense let alone count on them to be the strength of the team -- but I don't rule it out. If the season goes south hope it doesn't cost Jay his job -- him digging Kelley notwithstanding. If it cost Bruce his job, that would be the one redeeming thing for me. Maybe it will feel better in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Guice was the thing I was looking forward to most of all about this season. Certainly not Alex Smith, who has never won a damn thing with far more talented and better-coached teams than any we've had in decades. On some days, I deeply regret my Skins fandom. It doesn't seem like there's any light at the end of the nearly 30-year tunnel that Snyder built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bacon said: The DL might be good, but we won't be seeing Ioannidis until October. Where are you getting this from ? Everything I've read is he'll be ready for the opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Just now, Malapropismic Depository said: Where are you getting this from ? Everything I've read is he'll be ready for the opener. I read that he's out 3 weeks. Is that from today or 3 weeks of the season? Probably misread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Bacon said: I read that he's out 3 weeks. Is that from today or 3 weeks of the season? Probably misread. 3 literal weeks, not 3 weeks of regular season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Prepared for worst on this one since it's same knee was recovering from in college last year. Next year he could be recovering again. What research was done on his knee before and after drafting him? That seemed too easy to jus pop like that again, was he really ready or did we miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I've been catching up on some reading about the injury and the Redskins season in that context -- people's opinions seem to be all over the place on it. Usually (not always) if I take time to digest things, I feel more optimistic. It hasn't kicked in yet for me. Feeling if anything worse the more I dwell on it. I saw the floor before the Guice injury as 7-9 and the ceiling as 11-5. At the moment, it feels like the ceiling is 9-7, floor 5-11. Mainly because I hate our match ups now in the NFC East -- all opponents with potentially stellar running games. Tough for me to land on an opinion on the defense let alone count on them to be the strength of the team -- but I don't rule it out. If the season goes south hope it doesn't cost Jay his job -- him digging Kelley notwithstanding. If it cost Bruce his job, that would be the one redeeming thing for me. Maybe it will feel better in the morning. Interesting to hear your floor/ceiling before and after. I was talking with a friend earlier in the week and my range for the skins was anywhere from 5-11 to 11-5 depending on overall health and how acclimated the young guys get to scheme / speed of the game. Now I will adjust downward to 4-12 to 10-6 give or take. It was a kick in the gut, but I don't feel the season is lost. I still think we can continue to trend in the right direction if we see growth in QB play and in the front 7. I wasn't expecting a deep run this year anyway , so our end result may not be affected much. I feel 2019 and 2020 will be where it really comes together, so I echo your thoughts on gruden. I think he has done a fantastic job, and his scheme has proven to work. I hope he isn't the scapegoat for not getting over the hump; if anything, he has kept them competitive in situations where it could have went south quickly. As for the rbs situation specifically, I wanted the skins to give Perine another chance. I know he has disappointed thus far, but he is young and has shown flashes. A little more consistency and ball security can go a long way in him belonging in this league. I also am excited at the prospect of Bibbs and Marshall getting a good share of game time reps to see what we have in them. And guice was going to have rookie moments, I think his expectations for 2018 may have gotten a little out of hand. Hopefully he takes this opportunity to be studious in his approach, and stoke his fire a little more, and come back with a vengeance in 2019. I do not feel the sky is falling. This team was going to have it's struggles regardless, and there are still many areas that this team can show growth to make 2018 an enjoyable season to watch, and one to build on to hopefully make a run at another ring in the not so distant future. And when you think about the stellar run games of division opponents as you mentioned, I feel losing j allen or z brown would be more discouraging in that regard bc they are key cogs of what I hope to be a solid front 7 to win those battles versus opponents running games. Our run game took a big hit today, no doubt about it, but we can still be a competitive football team and have a solid season overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/derrius-guices-injury-doesnt-end-redskins-alex-smith-seen-014013085.html Interesting read for those who need a pick me up after the guice injury. I've also heard many people declare that Alex smith needs a thriving run game to be successful, but when Charles went down in 2015 and the chiefs had a 1-5 record, smith led them to ten straight victories by having his best year to date by becoming more of a down field passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, JSSkinz said: I think our FO should be on the phone right now, I just don't see Rob or Perrine as real starting backs in this league. Go get us Tevin Coleman for J Norman. I feel a knee jerk reaction to the guice injury is the worst thing the skins could do. If they can get a solid back like Coleman for decent value, then go for it. But I hope they don't overpay just to fill the gap that guice has left for 2018. Our run game took a big hit today no doubt. We aren't a rb away from a title, so while my first preference would be to stay with what we currently have and see what Perine / Bibbs / Marshall have in them, I would prefer they choose to sign a darkwa or Murray without giving up assets over overpaying for a rb out of panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 minute ago, KillBill26 said: I feel a knee jerk reaction to the guice injury is the worst thing the skins could do. If they can get a solid back like Coleman for decent value, then go for it. But I hope they don't overpay just to fill the gap that guice has left for 2018. Our run game took a big hit today no doubt. We aren't a rb away from a title, so while my first preference would be to stay with what we currently have and see what Perine / Bibbs / Marshall have in them, I would prefer they choose to sign a darkwa or Murray without giving up assets over overpaying for a rb out of panic. Yea, especially do not want to give away a good player or draft picks, just for a one year need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 I wonder what this means for our new FB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 9 hours ago, SAli457180 said: Seriously don't understand how it got this bad that quick. No cart and he walked off on his own. This SUCKS! I was talkin to one of my best friends who's a die hard Eagles fan about us losing Guice. We crack big jokes on each when our teams **** up. For over 20+ years. And he surprisingly didnt poke fun at the loss, he was looking forward to how tough our division would be this year. He wanted to see how our new offense was going to look with our new pieces. Anyway, to respond to the quote, my friend brought up how last season, the same **** happened to Wentz. He said Wentz went down, got up, kept playing, threw a TD pass, was celebrating. Everything seem straight. Next day, they announced that he was done for the season. And all their fans were left wondering wtf happened. Crazy injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yeah and that's my issue with our "power" backs. Perine and Kelley are big guys -- not fast (4.65) but they don't really plow through like for example Brandon Jacobs did. So even we are talking pure power -- am not in love with either guy in the context, either. Guice just hammered his way to three yards with nothing there. If it were Perine or Kelley IMO they would have likely been stopped in their tracks. What separates Guice from guys like Perine & Kelley is that you can go to a gym and get big physically. But you cant go anywhere to boost NASTINESS, GUTS, RECKLESSNESS, FIRE, PASSION, WILL, HEART, & DETERMINATION..... And when you have a player that has those attributes and then add that they have SKILL & NATURAL ABILITY. Checks across the board in damner ever category for that particular position??? You have a dangerous player. It's damner rare, you either have it or you dont. SEAN TAYLOR had all of those same attributes I just mentioned. Exactly why we haven't come close to replacing him yet. You cant teach that. ......Guice runs like every run is his last run. LITERALLY. Perine & Kelley (though he's slimmer now) are big for nothin. It aint about the dog in the fight, it's about the fight in the dog. If Guice can channel all of those attributes into his rehab, he will recover and be a beast for us. He's been throught this before, he knows what he has to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Vanguard said: I'm thinking that was the reason. Sony Michel has a far worse injury history than Guice, and the Patriots traded up to get him at the bottom of the 1st round. But they are the Patriots, they can do **** like that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakinaiken Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 We still have three preseason games left. I'll be flinching with dread on every single play called. Diminishes any sort of joy of watching football. We're doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 hours ago, mudpig said: That injury bums me out. Kelley is okay. Perine is Perine. Bibbs may have some flashy plays but Guice looked like he really was going to have an amazing rookie season. Kind of a weird way to tear an ACL, so I assume he was nursing a bad knee as some reports have said. Nice job training staff. I got a feeling that is really going to hurt since he would have made our offense very dynamic. Reed and Thompson will follow suit soon, and Payne wouldn't surprise me. Good lord the amount of ACL tears now. I want to see a statistic on now VS the 90's, 2000-2010 just for reference. When he comes back hopefully he isn't hindered. Some guys lose a step after that. Others have recovered perfectly fine. Either way they best be looking for another RB right now. Kelley and Perine aren't going to cut it IMO. My excitement is shattered now. Go CAPS! Fat Rob is objectively less than ok. 3 hours ago, Bacon said: Guice was the thing I was looking forward to most of all about this season. Certainly not Alex Smith, who has never won a damn thing with far more talented and better-coached teams than any we've had in decades. On some days, I deeply regret my Skins fandom. It doesn't seem like there's any light at the end of the nearly 30-year tunnel that Snyder built. No fanbase has ever collectively wanted a player more than this one wanted Guice. It’s a dark day in DC, but the sun will rise & we will feed fat rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 hours ago, KillBill26 said: I feel a knee jerk reaction to the guice injury is the worst thing the skins could do. If they can get a solid back like Coleman for decent value, then go for it. But I hope they don't overpay just to fill the gap that guice has left for 2018. Our run game took a big hit today no doubt. We aren't a rb away from a title, so while my first preference would be to stay with what we currently have and see what Perine / Bibbs / Marshall have in them, I would prefer they choose to sign a darkwa or Murray without giving up assets over overpaying for a rb out of panic. Coleman would be absolutely phenomenal in Washington. He couldn’t fit much better, I wanted him out of Indi. I hoped we’d sign Ivory to complement a draft pick like Guice, I think Ivory would do very well in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoggingGod Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 4 hours ago, bakedtater1 said: How can you say that without even seeing them play a game together?. outside of the trenches it's all about what happens behind center... And an excellent defense doesn't hurt...I imagine loosing guice will make an impact but I don't think it's seasons over time. Smith is only effective when he has a dynamic back to take the pressure off the passing game. He no longer has that on 1st and 2nd down. He’s going back to his mediocre 2016 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, JoggingGod said: Smith is only effective when he has a dynamic back to take the pressure off the passing game. He no longer has that on 1st and 2nd down. He’s going back to his mediocre 2016 season. Did ya read the article about when he lost his rb a couple years ago and he turned out to having one of his best years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 7 hours ago, Bacon said: Guice was the thing I was looking forward to most of all about this season. Certainly not Alex Smith, who has never won a damn thing with far more talented and better-coached teams than any we've had in decades. On some days, I deeply regret my Skins fandom. It doesn't seem like there's any light at the end of the nearly 30-year tunnel that Snyder built. This is exactly how I feel. Guice and the DL were the 2 things I was most excited about, it sure wasn't Alex Smith for the reasons you posted. While I felt the team was underrated going into the season I also recognized how good the division is. I was initially thinking 9-7 but now I am accepting 6-10, it's what they do. And with an aging QB who 2 contending teams felts was not good enough a year older when Guice returns I don't see the future as being any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 7 hours ago, KillBill26 said: Interesting to hear your floor/ceiling before and after. I was talking with a friend earlier in the week and my range for the skins was anywhere from 5-11 to 11-5 depending on overall health and how acclimated the young guys get to scheme / speed of the game. Now I will adjust downward to 4-12 to 10-6 give or take. It was a kick in the gut, but I don't feel the season is lost. I still think we can continue to trend in the right direction if we see growth in QB play and in the front 7. I wasn't expecting a deep run this year anyway , so our end result may not be affected much. I feel 2019 and 2020 will be where it really comes together, Agree that the team can grow in some areas and also agree with your 2019-2020 point. Heck sometimes bad things can happen that lead to good things long term. Heck I was at the game when the Redskins stomped on Dallas in Dallas in 2015 and it led to a 2016 resurgence for the Cowboys with them landing Elliot in the draft. On that same note, I don't think its far fetched now that they end up with a top 10 pick in the draft. Just about every draft geek under the sun had the Redskins picking top 10 (which I thought was crazy at the time), some even top 5 in the earlier 2019 mocks, IMO especially for D line and O line you got some potential monsters coming out next year. The reason why I think that injury specifically is a major kick in the gut beyond any player who they could have lost and it has turned my prediction for the season upside down (with the caveat that I might cool off, it just has happened yet ) is the following: A. I think it automatically makes them the worst team in the NFC East and hands down to me. And we got 6 games in the division. They went 1-5 in the division last year -- only game they won was the Giants who are now looking a lot better. Most of the national media already saw them as hands down the worst team in the division with Guice. I disagreed mainly because our running game could at least keep pace. But each team in the NFC east has a killer or potentially killer running game -- and I am not buying the team with the 30th YPA running game last year is going for a major turnaround with the exact same group. What strength does this team have right now where you can say with confidence they have over any team in the division? The Giants match up to me is the closest. They got pass rush, QB and O line over the Giants. But the Giants by a mile IMO has the better passing weapons, run game. And they are potentially elite at stopping the run. B. As for Alex Smith, I like him but I am not in the group who think he is an upgrade. I saw him as a slight downgrade. However, I think Alex with a really good running back is intriguing because it makes the RO and RPO dangerous. If I am an opposing defense, I am not too scared of the RO or RPO if Alex hands the ball off to Kelley or tosses it to him -- I spent a lot of time in the off season watching mostly two things on coaches tape, D line and RBs -- and to me Kelley doesn't have the vision to ever be even an average RB let alone a dangerous threat IMO. Hope am wrong, though. I wonder about Perine too on the same fronts but I try to give rookies a pass and another shot. C. The Chris Thompson comments from recently have gone below the radar about not being 100% until Nov and he feels pain when his leg is touched. My take on Guice's injury is really a combination of that and these comments. If Thompson starts off slow or for that matter gets hurt or doesn't start the season -- that coupled with Guice really makes IMO the running back position very weak. 7 hours ago, KillBill26 said: I do not feel the sky is falling. This team was going to have it's struggles regardless, and there are still many areas that this team can show growth to make 2018 an enjoyable season to watch, and one to build on to hopefully make a run at another ring in the not so distant future. You are right in theory. I am probably one of the worst guys to be objective on that front because by a mile Guice was the guy I wanted to see this season over any player. Loved the dude since last fall. I spent a ton of time talking about him for months on the draft thread before we took him. When we ended up taking him, someone who remembered all of that even called me out on the draft day thread asking for my comments. I've not been more giddy about a pick than that one. 99% of the reason why I booked a flight to the go see the Arizona game was to see his debut. I wasn't giddy about the Payne pick. Though I was very familiar with the player. And as for Alex Smith, I like the dude, I think he's a good player. But to me he's very nice-classy guy but also boring and as a player I think he can be boring too (not that Kirk was Mr. Excitement) aside from his running ability-RPO-RO -- and I was jazzed to see him do that with Guice. in other words, I was jazzed about Alex in the context of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. But I got no enthusiasm for a just peanut butter sandwich as to Alex. I don't see him as anything special (though he's good) aside from the RPO-RO. That's why I hang on Chris Thompson, if he's OK, then we still got some potential on that front. But at the moment I'm heading to the opener with very little enthusiasm because for me taking out Guice, also takes out what I was jazzed about Alex in one fell swoop. My remaining hope is that Jay turns Alex into something he's never been -- a passing machine without a big time running back. If I recall he had one good year (but not great one) without a running back. Can Jay do that with Alex? Maybe. But back to your point, I agree with fundamentally what you say. They are other components to dig. The team in some ways is on the rise. I agree especially as to the D line, will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 7 hours ago, KillBill26 said: If they can get a solid back like Coleman for decent value A smart move, not a 2nd rounder for TJ Duckett type move, this front office is conservative as hell and IMO and they've made it clear over the last 4 years they won't overpay for older players so it will have to be a clear win for us to get something done. I'm not so sure Jay and Bruce have another year to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tomb Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: A smart move, not a 2nd rounder for TJ Duckett type move, this front office is conservative as hell and IMO and they've made it clear over the last 4 years they won't overpay for older players so it will have to be a clear win for us to get something done. I'm not so sure Jay and Bruce have another year to wait. What do you think a decent offer would be? I'm thinking a 4th rounder - maybe a 3rd rounder if the Falcons won't budge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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