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Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum


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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I think there was some inauthenticity from Kirk but I presume in a different way that you imply here.  It's come out from too many sources (for me not to believe it) that talk to Kirk that he didn't like Bruce and Bruce was driving the ship on the contract.  He thought he was a douche, thought he was incompetent.   Though the douche part bothered him more than the incompetence. 

 

 

 

...now known as ""Brouche?"

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On 7/6/2018 at 6:26 PM, Darth Tater said:

Brunell? He was coming off injury, really had not a great season since the late 90s and was going to a somewhat different system. Alex Smith has not had as much problem with injury over the last few years, is coming off his best season preceded by 4 above average seasons and is going into a system that is as similar as possible to the one he came from.

 

I would argue that Smith did not have good seasons with KC until last year. He was efficient, but pretty low in yards, TD's, YPA and a few other areas. The one area that is a positive is lack of turnovers, but he also gets sacked quite a bit. I would not put them "above average".  In fact, the stat lines outside of the INT's are quite "meh". As for Brunell, I would say Smith and he are very similar. Efficient, mobile QB's that with a very good surrounding cast are enough to take you places, but can't do it without a lot of help.

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3 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I would argue that Smith did not have good seasons with KC until last year. He was efficient, but pretty low in yards, TD's, YPA and a few other areas. The one area that is a positive is lack of turnovers, but he also gets sacked quite a bit. I would not put them "above average".  In fact, the stat lines outside of the INT's are quite "meh". As for Brunell, I would say Smith and he are very similar. Efficient, mobile QB's that with a very good surrounding cast are enough to take you places, but can't do it without a lot of help.

 

This wasn't depressing at all :kickcan:

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4 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I would argue that Smith did not have good seasons with KC until last year. He was efficient, but pretty low in yards, TD's, YPA and a few other areas. The one area that is a positive is lack of turnovers, but he also gets sacked quite a bit. I would not put them "above average".  In fact, the stat lines outside of the INT's are quite "meh". As for Brunell, I would say Smith and he are very similar. Efficient, mobile QB's that with a very good surrounding cast are enough to take you places, but can't do it without a lot of help.

 

Counterpoint: Smith had a good running game and a stout defense to help him out most of his time in KC. He didn't need to sling it around to win games. Last season, when his defense fell apart, he was forced to air it out more, and had his best statistical season. To me, that says he can be effective slinging the rock when need be. I think he will be plenty effective in Jay's offense. 

 

Also, sacks taken by QB:

 

2017: Cousins 41 - Smith 35

2016: Cousins 23 - Smith 28

2015: Cousins 26 - Smith 45

Total: Cousins 90 - Smith 108. 

 

Smith took an average of 6 more sacks per year, with almost all of that coming in 2015. Not a huge deal. During that same time period, Aaron Rodgers was sacked far more than both of them by the way. 

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Has anyone watched enough of Smith games to share if he has great command of the offense pre-snap? Audibles, identifying coverages/protections/blitzes, pace in and out of huddle etc..

 

I feel the Skins haven’t had this in the time I’ve watched (25 years). 

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3 hours ago, wit33 said:

Has anyone watched enough of Smith games to share if he has great command of the offense pre-snap? Audibles, identifying coverages/protections/blitzes, pace in and out of huddle etc..

 

I feel the Skins haven’t had this in the time I’ve watched (25 years). 

 

 

NFL Network has been airing a lot of old Chief games this off season, I've recorded and watched them.  But I haven't slowed it down and watched it on coaches tape aside from the Redskins game -- you can see so much on coaches tape that's hard to see watching the game -- the difference is insane.

 

Real tough to tell as for Alex's command.  But everyone just about has said he's very smart so I am sure he will figure out this offense or any offense quick.   The rap is that Andy Reid really maximized his skills very well by incorporating RPO and RO.   There is a little bit of the Redskins 2012 magic in the Chiefs offense where you got the QB as a running threat, a dangerous RB in the backfield and they used T. Hill and others with sweep action.  Heck they even used T. Kelce in the game against us on a handoff if I recall.   

 

So A Reid is using a lot of presnap movement and motion.  And like the Redskins in 2012, he at times has multiple weapons in the backfield at times lined up to the side or behind the the QB. 

 

Let me preface my point by saying I love Jay Gruden as an offensive mind. So please no one take this part out of context.  Gruden's known as the pass design genius -- planning routes that get guys open.  The NFL film geek types like Benoit and others think Jay is a genius at that stuff.  They also think he's somewhat vanilla in presnap motion and the things that Andy Reid is known for.  Some beat guys have said that Jay is relying on Kevin O'Connell who worked some with Chip Kelly to bring the presnap-RPO component to the offense.

 

So my most optimistic take of Alex is this.  Jay who is already great at play design and getting guys open -- now adds the pre-snap stuff and RPOs in a heavy duty way via O'Connell. Alex has a healthy Thompson and Guice in the backfield at times -- Crowder helps provide the sweep action and now we got some KC Chief style element to the offense.  

 

My thought about Alex watching him is I don't think he's a special passer.    He's good but he IMO isn't an Aaron Rodgers caliber throw on the move guy or a guy like Brady or Brees who will just pick you apart out of the pocket.  Like Kirk, he's criticized as a guy who struggles in the red zone.  I just looked up Alex's stats on that front, career wise he's up and down -- last year he was one of the worst rated QB, TD wise or completion % in the red zone.   I am not a big though put the full blame on a QB kind of guy so if QBs aren't that hot in the red zone its typically a combination of things.   

 

I think where Alex can be special is playing to a degree a lighter version of the 2012 Redskins style -- the backfield confusion, who has the ball, Alex taking off himself -- handing off to Guice in the midst of backfield confusion -- Thompson-Guice on the field at the same time.  And when you have all that cooking -- Alex is good enough with his arm to present a danger that way.  It's sort of a throw everything and the kitchen sink at you approach to confuse defenses and keep them off balance. 

 

The thing that I am most jazzed about is to see Jay's offense married to O'Connell's part.  As much as i like Jay, I do respect Andy Reid a lot too especially as to maximizing a running QB. To use a food analogy -- Alex is a pastry chef and Alex just happens to be a pasty so it was a great marriage.  I put money that Jay could duplicate all the same stuff.    Should be fun to see.  

 

The reason why I am a bit obsessive about is Alex going to be running the same way in the mid 30s is IMO a lot of what makes Alex's game really good is his legs -- that duo threat.  And yeah I do think Reid got the most out of him in that regard.  I wish I can find the interview but I recall one from Alex himself who said that either Reid or Nagy (forgot which one) said to him something to the effect of imagine if he got him when he was younger when he was at his athletic peak what they could have done together -- alluding to his age.

 

To me the real irony of this acquistion is its the third go of obtaining a 34 year old QB whose strength in their earlier career was partly about being a running threat.  Alex granted later in his career is better on that front.  Brunell was no running threat once he got here.  Ditto McNabb.  I actually lean optimistic on Alex in the short term -- 1-2 seasons.  I think he still will have his fastball, then.   I just wonder what he will have left after that.   I am not in the camp that he's an upgrade over Kirk.  I'd lean Kirk over him.  But there are two things that I like about this.  1.  Should be fun to see what the Jay/O'Connell offense looks like.  2.  i like having a QB where I don't have to wonder whether its the last I'll be seeing of him.  I can purchase an Alex jersey without sweating. :)

 

 

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I think we all have a decent sense of what to expect. I'll try to be brief...

 

  1. I believe that, with some favorable conditions (health, younger players developing, etc.) that Smith can match the production we've seen from Cousins as far as passing statistics go.
  2. I believe that we will see an uptick in the rushing attack due to Smith's ability to hurt a defense with his legs. That might translate to a few additional "unconventional" third down conversions. In fairness to Cousins, if we do see a better all-around rushing attack, some of that will likely be due to Guice being significantly better than any lead back who was here from 2015-2017. 
  3. I believe that we are getting a little more than we had with Cousins in terms of those intangible/leadership qualities where maybe he elevates the level of play around him. 

 

The net of all of this would hopefully be comparable passing stats, more efficiency in the red zone, a better rushing attack, and a couple more wins than we've seen under Cousins. 

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19 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

  1. I believe that we are getting a little more than we had with Cousins in terms of those intangible/leadership qualities where maybe he elevates the level of play around him. 

 

 

 

This one is a really hard thing for me to figure out.  I've watched every Alex interview I can find and listened and read every interview I can about him.  In doing so, the impression I get is Alex is a very quiet dude and really really nice guy.  Some beat guys have already said he's more quiet on the field than Kirk in practice.  Hoffman joked if you think Kirk is boring spend a few minutes with Alex and you'll see you can go a lot more boring than Kirk.

 

Scot of all people compared them as similar guys.  If I had to peg the difference (somewhat guessing here) Kirk will be more demonstrative and emotional on the field and the sidelines.  Neither is though that demonstrative/emotional.  Alex has more of the I am 34 years old and been around the league calmness about him.  I'd gather critics of both would be is Kirk too hyped up in big moments and or is Alex too chilled?

 

I was watching an Alex interview where he talked about how he doesn't like to get hyped before games -- he likes to relax, he talked about listening to calm music or NPR before games.   Kelce who loved Alex says he's just very chilled in the huddle -- talks about him being very California -- super laid back and relaxed.

 

I do think Kirk's adversarial behind the scenes drill with the FO versus Alex being the FO guy -- should help Alex though feel like he's the guy and by extension that should help him leadership wise.

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@Skinsinparadise

 

This is going to sound very "1980s High School Movie" but I think there's something to that quiet confidence. I think people want to play with and for guys they perceive as laid back and cool. Cousins was and is kind of a nerdy guy. Smart, good person...but a nerd. I think there's an inherent quality about him that will garner more respect and more of a following from the guys in the huddle and on the field. 

 

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, we'll see. 

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58 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

This is going to sound very "1980s High School Movie" but I think there's something to that quiet confidence. I think people want to play with and for guys they perceive as laid back and cool. Cousins was and is kind of a nerdy guy. Smart, good person...but a nerd. I think there's an inherent quality about him that will garner more respect and more of a following from the guys in the huddle and on the field. 

 

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, we'll see. 

 

Personally I think that is a stretch.  Kirk wasn’t really a loud dude either.  Of course he never won anything, but then again neither has Smith.  It’s not like we are getting the quiet, confident leader with a Super Bowl ring.  I can see where a guy with a ring or two doesn’t have to say much and let his jewelry do the talking.  

 

That said, I do believe that knowing Alex is under contract to play the position for the next 3 years, should make it easier to lead the team.

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2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

This is going to sound very "1980s High School Movie" but I think there's something to that quiet confidence. I think people want to play with and for guys they perceive as laid back and cool. Cousins was and is kind of a nerdy guy. Smart, good person...but a nerd. I think there's an inherent quality about him that will garner more respect and more of a following from the guys in the huddle and on the field. 

 

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, we'll see. 

 

I can see his age and relaxed demeanor helping on the field -- though I wonder if its that needed in this specific mix -- the Redskins just might have the most laid back and relaxed group of personalities in the NFL on offense.  Jay even joked about it in that way in an interview last year.

 

The interesting thing where i think both guys (Alex and Kirk) have something perhaps to prove is neither guy is considered clutch by the typical NFL pundit.  And their stats are mixed on that front, too.  So that's what I was alluding to -- Kirk too hyped in those situations, Alex too relaxed?    I am personally fine with either QB in the clutch but its hard to ignore that their critics are hard on both of them on that front. 

 

 

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Cousins was and is kind of a nerdy guy. Smart, good person...but a nerd. I think there's an inherent quality about him that will garner more respect and more of a following from the guys in the huddle and on the field. 

 

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, we'll see. 

 

If you run by what is said by others.  They both might be considered nerds.  Kirk a bit of a goody two shoes guy.  Likes his Lord of the Rings.  Alex a bit of a goody two shoes guy.  Likes his GOTR and NPR.  Both on the quiet side for football players.

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From what his Chiefs' teammates have said, I'm optimistic that Smith's leadership will be a genuine, noticeable asset for the team:

 

Center Mitch Morse: “The ultimate leader of men on the field, and one of the best teammates you could possibly have in the locker room. I owe Alex a great deal for helping me learn how to be a professional. Wish you all the best!”

 

Travis Kelce: “Can’t say enough about the guy.... one of the best competitors and teammates I’ve ever been around. Someone who I owe a lot of my success to, and a guy that’s been a class act through all the ups n downs....You can’t say my name without saying Alex Smith. I know that everybody in that office absolutely loved Alex.

 

"I shot him a text to see if he was here,” Kelce said. “I wanted to see him face-to-face and just appreciate him and say thank you for being how good he was.”

 

EDiT: Ok, had a ****oad of other stuff I had written, but it disappeared when I edited my post just now lo (d'oh!)...just know that it was more of the same.


 
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2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

@Califan007 That's my take too...I could be wrong. He just seems like he probably engages more with his teammates and bonds with them easier. I'm conceding that this is based on things I've read and my impressions and could be completely wrong. But, if it's true, it counts for something. 

 

It definitely should...

 

Here's some of the stuff that got deleted that i had before:

 

 

Laurent Duvernay-Tardif: “Alex, you are the definition of a true leader and your professionalism helped me grow as a player."

 

Derrick Johnson: “He gave us stability, confidence, a sense of leadership."

 

Tamba Hali: “He knew how to go about each day at work and guided his team to victory after victory. Most of my wins with the Chiefs came with him at the quarterback position. What he’s left behind is just how you should handle yourself at that position, regardless of adversity.”

 

Mitchell Schwartz: "I think he was the best quarterback in the NFL this year, and the numbers bear that out. He put up some crazy statistics, and he was by far the best deep-ball thrower in the NFL this year. So it’s been a blast. He’s the guy that makes us go. Unfortunately from his perspective, all the bad in middle of the season was offensive line related. We gave up too much pressure and he wasn’t able to step into his throws and that’s something we tried to address, and as we got better, he got better. He’s awesome, I can’t say enough good about him.

 

"I think in a general sense he’s under-appreciated. We really understand in our locker room how valuable he is to our offense, relative to other quarterbacks in the NFL. If that were the case (if he gets traded) and Alex is out, we’d understand what we’re losing. We know that Alex is really the driving force that makes the offense go. If it happens, it happens, but I think we all love playing with him."

 

 

And an article I read months ago, that made me nod in appreciation at what we were getting in Smith:

 

"...as Smith prepares for what on Sunday could be his last regular-season start at Arrowhead Stadium, it’s a good moment to pause and reflect on how much better off the Chiefs are than they were five years ago in great measure because of Smith’s mind-meld with coach Andy Reid. 

 

That team, you’ll recall, was 2-14 in 2012 with Matt Cassel at the helm of the worst offense in the NFL, all symptomatic of a diseased franchise. 

 

His naysayers notwithstanding, despite the human limitations that sometimes have splotched his play, Smith has been at the very heart of the extreme makeover as a player and as an absolutely first-class leader and ambassador for the organization no matter what the circumstances. 

 

 The most valuable player on the team this year also is the Chiefs’ nominee for Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year and absolutely one of the most impressive men you’ll ever meet."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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5 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I think we all have a decent sense of what to expect. I'll try to be brief...

 

  1. I believe that, with some favorable conditions (health, younger players developing, etc.) that Smith can match the production we've seen from Cousins as far as passing statistics go.
  2. I believe that we will see an uptick in the rushing attack due to Smith's ability to hurt a defense with his legs. That might translate to a few additional "unconventional" third down conversions. In fairness to Cousins, if we do see a better all-around rushing attack, some of that will likely be due to Guice being significantly better than any lead back who was here from 2015-2017. 
  3. I believe that we are getting a little more than we had with Cousins in terms of those intangible/leadership qualities where maybe he elevates the level of play around him. 

 

The net of all of this would hopefully be comparable passing stats, more efficiency in the red zone, a better rushing attack, and a couple more wins than we've seen under Cousins. 

 

Great post. Brief, but right on point in my eyes.

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These two points are consistent for me among the things that I read and watched about him.

 

A. Alex is a good QB -- some say overrated and maybe slightly less than good or good is the ceiling, some say underrated and better than good and emerging late in his career. In that way he reminds me a lot of Kirk's rep.  He's got his loud fans, he's got his loud critics.   Part of the reason why I think it should be fascinating to see how it goes down for both guys.

 

B. Great guy.  I've heard him talk at length about his charity for foster care kids about once they get older and leave the system.  Even when benched for Kaepernick he didn't say a single bad word or complain.  When they drafted Mahomes, he groomed him even though he was his replacement -- contrast that with Big Ben whining about Rudolph. 

 

 

This MMQ article below sums it well for me -- Jordan Reed and one of the WRs need to emerge.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/07/03/fantasy-football-2018-sleepers-eli-manning

 

ALEX SMITH, QB, REDSKINS

After leading the Chiefs to two straight AFC West titles and three consecutive playoff seasons as the pillar of the best offense in the Andy Reid era, Smith was shipped to the Redskins during Super Bowl week. Smith won’t be surrounded by the same level of talent as he was in Kansas City, but Smith and Washington head coach Jay Gruden seem to be an ideal fit for one another. Having Derrius Guice and Chris Thompson in the Redskins’ backfield should free up Smith, helping Gruden use the QB’s mobility to the team’s advantage. If Smith’s going to be a consistent fantasy starter, though, he’ll need Jordan Reed to stay healthy, or at least one of Jamison Crowder, Josh Doctson or Paul Richardson to jump a level. Smith looks more like a QB2 than a QB1 this season.

 

The Graham Bensigner interviews with him are cool for those who missed them -- they gave some window into his personality

 inter

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Just spotted this on MMQ, quoting a scout about every team in the NFL.  Entertaining read.  In short, the scout weighed in on some of the basics including Kirk versus Alex -- I'll leave that part alone and out of this -- here's his comments on the supporting cast.  That's encouraging.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/07/05/fantasy-football-team-reports-preview-scouts-insider-analysis?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com

 

Drafting running back Derrius Guice out of LSU in Round 2 says a lot about how they feel about Samaje Perine, who they drafted last year. Guice has had some off-the-field issues, but he is hands-down the best back on their roster. I think they would really like to run the ball, which they haven’t been able to do consistently over the last couple of years. If all goes well, Guice will give them that.

 

At receiver they signed Paul Richardson from Seattle to give them a vertical dimension. They are waiting to see what Josh Doctson, their first-round pick from 2016, can do with a full, healthy season. He’s a supertalented player who showed flashes last year, and they are counting on him to put it together now. Jamison Crowder is very good. He’s overlooked when people talk about NFL slot receivers.

 

Vernon Davis still can run at age 34, and if Jordan Reed can stay on the field, they’re very good at tight end. Gruden likes to play two-tight-end sets, and both are difficult matchups. Their third tight end, Jeremy Sprinkle, is going into his second year, and he is a very nice dual tight end. If he had to play more because of injuries, they would be fine.

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This sounded...weird lol...the idea that the offense will "take over" the division...but the article is good (and there's a lot of article at the link):

 

NFLVerified account @NFL

Why the @Redskins offense could take the NFC East over: http://on.nfl.com/ckYVJW  (via @greggrosenthal)

 

 

 

Making the Leap: Redskins' offense to rise with Alex Smith

 

Alex Smith was not a consolation prize.

 

After being mired for years in Capitol Hill gridlock concerning Kirk Cousins' imaginary contract, Washington Redskins coach Jay Gruden finally has a quarterback that he chose.

 

"We got better," Gruden said of the team's switch from Cousins to Smith, a claim that the coach sounds confident will show up on the field this season. I believe him.

Smith is now 13 years into a counterintuitive career. He's a former No. 1 overall draft pick who doubles as a perennial underdog. He's been traded twice, both times coming after excellent seasons. He's a game manager who excelled throwing deep last season, a player derided for being boring despite being excellent at improvising with his feet. Smith has seen too much to believe that Washington is a permanent home, but at least there is no young hotshot on the Redskins' roster ready to take his job. Gruden is invested; with money, with draft capital and with his words.

 

What looked like a marriage of convenience at first glance has potential to be a lasting solution.

 

'More firepower than ever'

 

Smith has functioned best when playing point guard, distributing the ball in offenses that focused on matchups, not feeding the ball to one superstar. As loaded as the 2017 Chiefs were, this Redskins squad could have an even more diverse group of weapons.

The acquisitions of former Seahawks deep threat Paul Richardson and rugged rookie running back Derrius Guice have attracted most of the attention in Washington this offseason, but the return to health for tight end Jordan Reed, running back Chris Thompson and tackle Trent Williams will be just as crucial. Add that group to an offense with one of the league's best slot receivers (Jamison Crowder), one of the best backup tight ends (Vernon Davis) and another deep threat with potential to make the leap (Josh Doctson), and the ceiling is the roof.

 

"I believe that we have more firepower than ever," Gruden told Kimberley A. Martin of the Washington Post after minicamp. "Not to say that the teams in the past didn't have any. I just feel good about our depth and the weapons that we have once they become healthy."

 

The Redskins have at least two of everything. Doctson and Richardson can take the top off a defense and win jump balls at the point of attack. Crowder, Reed and Thompson all know how to find space over the middle of the field that the team's vertical receivers help to create. Thompson is a passing-down standout and the perfect complement to Guice's relentless, Marshawn Lynch running style. Davis is necessary insurance for Reed's foot problems, and the team even has three quality tackles in Williams, Morgan Moses and Ty Nsekhe to help prevent one injury from capsizing the team. There is safety here in numbers, with flexibility to survive injuries and multiple candidates for breakout seasons.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000938950/article/making-the-leap-redskins-offense-to-rise-with-alex-smith

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Sam Monson from PFF was on Galdi today talking mostly Alex Smith.

 

His take:  He described Alex as pathologically conservative, the most conservative QB in the league among the established guys year in and year out.  He said he broke out of that shell last year but if you chart him him he was medium level aggressive -- he said average as for his aggressiveness -- last year but average is a big climb for him as for being aggressive so hopefully that's a trend for him. He thinks Tyreek Hill is a unique talent and might have brought that out some of Alex.  He doesn't think Richardson is in Hill's league.  So in his mind Alex is an interesting open question for next season.  Monson's thought is if Alex is who he has been every year sans 2017, he's a downgrade over Kirk.  If he is the 2017 version of himself, he could be an upgrade.   

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11 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

'More firepower than ever'

"I believe that we have more firepower than ever," Gruden told Kimberley A. Martin of the Washington Post after minicamp. "Not to say that the teams in the past didn't have any. I just feel good about our depth and the weapons that we have once they become healthy."

 

The Redskins have at least two of everything. Doctson and Richardson can take the top off a defense and win jump balls at the point of attack. Crowder, Reed and Thompson all know how to find space over the middle of the field that the team's vertical receivers help to create. Thompson is a passing-down standout and the perfect complement to Guice's relentless, Marshawn Lynch running style. Davis is necessary insurance for Reed's foot problems, and the team even has three quality tackles in Williams, Morgan Moses and Ty Nsekhe to help prevent one injury from capsizing the team. There is safety here in numbers, with flexibility to survive injuries and multiple candidates for breakout seasons.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000938950/article/making-the-leap-redskins-offense-to-rise-with-alex-smith

 

This is almost identical to the MMQ article I posted above, a scout liking the Redskins supporting cast, only difference is the scout saw Alex as a downgrade.  But I love the enthusiasm about the supporting cast.  I am more in a wait and see guy.

 

Guice = I think stud

Thompson = if healthy/stud

Richardson -- he's the dude I wanted in FA.  But i admit he hasn't had a big season, yet.  Hopefully this is the season.

Doctson -- love the dude in the draft.  In college he had great hands.  Supposedly a stud in practice but it hasn't translated yet -- but WRs often take time

Crowder -- good slot guy

Reed -- superstar but will be be healthy enough where it matters?

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