Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[JSSkinz]

I've been ****ing about this for the last 2 weeks when I thought the offensive starters would play only 3 full quarters but now it looks like they will play just a bit more than 2 quarters, as I said before how can we expect for this team to hit the ground running, especially now with the RB situation.

 

I will say that after watching preseason game 2 our starters played as good of a game on offense and defense that I have seen in quite some time in the preseason. If we play a solid half against Denver who knows, maybe we will be ready.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Alex's biggest intangible is he wants to be here (happy with his pay) AND he doesn't have a big F CHIP on his shoulder for some perceived diss...He looked "good" in the 2nd preseason game as compared to....

 

Now..as to HOW GOOD he will be, I am at least rooting for him to succeed and I'm having fun doing it. Those 1 year deals sucked the fun outa watching the skins (Blame who you want).

 

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

Some thoughts on that post, SIP.

 

- Alex is neither average nor elite. He's a solid starting QB with brains to expand a playbook, accuracy to create good YAC, and mobility to evade sacks or create yards on broken plays.

 

Agree.  That's why I said there seems to be a camp who think he's good (not average) and another who think he's great just short of elite.  The bitterness from my observation seems more from the crowd who are bothered by the crowd who think the dude is good but not great.   

 

I'd hazard a guess that i've watched as much Alex games as anyone.  I've watched just about every interview I can find.  I've posted many of those interviews on different threads.  He's a good dude.  He's impossible to hate.  I like Alex.   One of the nicest guys in the league.

 

If I don't think a player is starting material I am not shy in expressing it.  See the RB thread and my comments about Robert Kelley. 

 

Lol, I was even wearing an Alex Smith shirt today.  Trust me I don't have a Robert Kelley shirt for example.  Not that I hate Kelley either -- seems like a nice guy but I just don't see him as a bonafide starter.    I'd love it if Alex fulfills people's wildest expectations and is this stud.  But I am just for now trying to stay calm about it.  The way i see Alex is that he's a conservative QB who doesn't make many mistakes and is a wiz with the RPO and RO.  I am jazzed to see that.  But I think the gunslinger-let it fly version of Alex is a fantasy.  Unless Jay coaches him into a new type of player.  Maybe -- you never know.  But I won't believe it until I see it.  

 

My Alex shirt for proof.    Heck my son has one, too.  I got a white version, too.  I don't do if for players I secretly hate.   I like Alex.   I didn't like the trade for one reason which is Alex's age coupled with I don't think we are poised to go to the big dance this season or next.  If I were Jax for example, I'd think the trade was brilliant.  

 

 

 

 

[Sandy Monk]

I don't know about proof, but you certainly don't need to prove anything to me anyway SIP. I'm no one here, good with that, and don't worry about internet forum ego in the slightest. 

 

Alex is no wild gunslinger, but he seems willing to be more of one if he trusts in the pass pro and deep targets to do their jobs. I don't think they need him to be a gunslinger, and I hope this holds true. It would mean that the defense is as strong as I think it will be, and desperate ball chucking can be for other team QBs. 

[Morneblade]

59 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

Some thoughts on that post, SIP.

 

- Alex is neither average nor elite. He's a solid starting QB with brains to expand a playbook, accuracy to create good YAC, and mobility to evade sacks or create yards on broken plays.

 

- Alex has not been a big risk taker, but he did let loose more last year when he finally had the pass pro and worthy WR to do it. 

 

- There are indeed quite a number of haters grouped on every Redskins forum. For whatever the reason, they just don't like to own it, and it's not very hard to discern why that is. ( whether it's bitter Kirk feelings or they just wanted a young and exciting QB instead solid, steady, boring old dude )

 

- Again and again, I will say this. If you are looking for concerns and weaknesses on the team? All this talk of Alex Smith the QB is wasteful and opportunistic in agenda. He's not on the list of weak links. 

 

- Agreed

 

- Agreed, but that WR is not with us. I expect closer to 2016

 

- No one liked to be called a hater I suppose. People get wrapped up in players, or have illogical hate for others.

 

- Oh, I agree, he is not a weakness. I would say he is a strength, but not to the degree some people hold him. That is why I'm in the thread about the RB situation so much right now. Loosing Guise REALLY hurts the offense. IMO we need to have at least have a competent running game for the offense to be good enough. Guice I though was going to do that, even with what I consider a OL that blocks marginally on running downs. Without a real difference maker running the ball, and a OL that generally speaking is not a good run blocking unit, our rushing attack is going to be bad. And that is going to drag down the offense and put a lot of pressure on the D.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

I don't know about proof, but you certainly don't need to prove anything to me anyway SIP. I'm no one here, good with that, and don't worry about internet forum ego in the slightest. 

 

Alex is no wild gunslinger, but he seems willing to be more of one if he trusts in the pass pro and deep targets to do their jobs. I don't think they need him to be a gunslinger, and I hope this holds true. It would mean that the defense is as strong as I think it will be, and desperate ball chucking can be for other team QBs. 

 

 

I've seen some gunslinger references here as to his style of play here and on twitter.   Some want to bill him as the opposite of Kirk where its framed of course all in a good way to Alex and in a bad way to Kirk.  And IMO in that process, some people are getting carried away. Heck it was even a topic on Cooley's show weeks back before that show went off the air. 

 

But as I've said on this thread multiple times, Kirk and Alex are ironically are on a similar ride reputation wise.  They are in some ways stylistically quite different and in some ways very similar.  But both are deemed by their critics as good QBs but lack that special quality to take it up to that next peg. 

 

 Alex IMO is good.  Its very hard to be a good Qb in the league -- most Qbs stink or are mediocre.  It's not easy to be a good QB.  My issue with dumping Kirk for Alex is the age difference.  To me that's a big deal.  And yeah I think Bruce grossly mishandled the contract but I have other reasons to dislike Bruce that extends beyond Kirk.

 

I've said on this thread many times, I think Alex and Kirk are close ability wise.  I'd take Kirk over Alex because of upside and age.  But I've said i have no problem with people who see them as the same caliber, Kirk is slightly better, or even those who think Alex is slightly better.  Reason being, none of those scenarios would surprise me -- Kirk ends up slightly better, Alex ends up slightly better or they end up the same.  All of those scenarios don't seem far fetched to me. The only thing that would surprise me is if one ends up way better than the other.

 

But yeah I look forward to the RPO-RO aspect of Alex, that's what I think is realistic and should be fun to watch.  But the idea that he's a poor's man Drew Brees and he will chuck it down the field and take big risks because that's how he rolls and will put up monster numbers.  I don't see it.  But I'd love to see it happen.  I live and die with each game on Sunday.  Heck if Alex throws for 400 yards and throws the ball 40 times, etc and we win a bunch of games -- I can care less if someone on this thread tells me hey i told you so, Alex is indeed this monster passer who will kill you from the pocket and take big chances that pay off -- I'd gladly eat crow and bask in the wins.   

 

It's all cool with me.  But I have very specific impressions of Alex from watching him.  And they are positive.  But they aren't these beaming over the moon impressions.  I am disappointed in the Guice injury because I was especially looking forward to the Alex-Guice dynamic for RO and RPO.  But Robert Kelley -- am having a hard time getting jazzed about that. 

 

[Morneblade]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

   I like Alex.   I didn't like the trade for one reason which is Alex's age coupled with I don't think we are poised to go to the big dance this season or next.  If I were Jax for example, I'd think the trade was brilliant. 

 

 

I think, at the end of the day, there is a lot of that for me too. I don't think we're ready for a run. If say, in a year, Guice comes back and looks like a absolute stud, we have a WR that seperates from the logjam we have and becomes a bonefied #1 WR, and the D plays lights out, then I'd be ready to talk about making a run. Right now, even before the Guice injury, we have a  D that still has a lot of questions, a OL that has a big whole, AND doesn't block the run that well, our biggest passing threat being a oft-injured TE, and questions in the secondary at Slot CB, CB and SS. That is not a team that is a good QB away from that SB. Now, it might be a team that is a good QB away from a playoff appearance, but is that what we're shooting for in a "win now" situation, like I hear from both coaches and players?

[HardcoreZorn]

I've broken it down before, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking what the defense gives you on third down even if it's short of the sticks. Fans hate it, but that doesn't make you a bad QB. In fact, you could very much argue the opposite. Reversing field position is so critical to winning football games. A great day for a QB is leading your team to 27 points, I think we can all agree on that. That's 3 TD's and 2 FGs. There are an average of about 12 drives per game. That means you come up empty more than 50% of the time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with throwing short of the sticks, punting it, and flipping the field. Its called being smart. Maybe has something to do with being the only player besides Tom Brady to win 50+ games since 2013? Hmmmmm

 

There is absolutely a faction of this fan base that claims Alex is a good enough QB but it seems that's more of a statement to hide behind if anything. You couldn't tell by the tone of their posts or the stats they bring to the table that they think Alex is a good QB.

[Sandy Monk]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I've seen some gunslinger references here as to his style of play here and on twitter.   Some want to bill him as the opposite of Kirk where its framed of course all in a good way to Alex and in a bad way to Kirk.  And IMO in that process, some people are getting carried away. Heck it was even a topic on Cooley's show weeks back before that show went off the air. 

 

As fans of the team expressing optimism for a season, I have less a problem with those people going a bit over the top on the compliments. I am more disappointed by the people that get carried away with rabidly going after those compliments. There seems to be a great deal of zealous correcting of the people making complimentary remarks. That's where it gets odd, and feels like hate, and it's usually based around Kirk Cousins. 

 

Quote

I've said on this thread many times, I think Alex and Kirk are close ability wise.  I'd take Kirk over Alex because of upside and age.  But I've said i have no problem with people who see them as the same caliber, Kirk is slightly better, or even those who think Alex is slightly better.  Reason being, none of those scenarios would surprise me -- Kirk ends up slightly better, Alex ends up slightly better or they end up the same.  All of those scenarios don't seem far fetched to me. The only thing that would surprise me is if one ends up way better than the other.

 

I also think they are close, if I were to actually make some rigid QB ranking list. The age of Smith doesn't bother me, as I see this regime as a 3 yr SB window anyway, and they will draft a QBotF in a year or two when time to rebuild. Kirk's now gone, so I really couldn't care less what happens in Minnesota. Kirk was long gone anyway, so I am incredulous of the people still clinging to his memory. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I think, at the end of the day, there is a lot of that for me too. I don't think we're ready for a run. If say, in a year, Guice comes back and looks like a absolute stud, we have a WR that seperates from the logjam we have and becomes a bonefied #1 WR, and the D plays lights out, then I'd be ready to talk about making a run. Right now, even before the Guice injury, we have a  D that still has a lot of questions, a OL that has a big whole, AND doesn't block the run that well, our biggest passing threat being a oft-injured TE, and questions in the secondary at Slot CB, CB and SS. That is not a team that is a good QB away from that SB. Now, it might be a team that is a good QB away from a playoff appearance, but is that what we're shooting for in a "win now" situation, like I hear from both coaches and players?

 

Agree.  This isn't a Superbowl roster this year.  As for next year?  I don't know.    But my take on ANY 34 year QB is I trust them for 2 years (34 and 35) then at 36 it becomes a wild card.  Yeah there are some QBs who still play well at 36 + but there are plenty who lost their fastball, too.  So I see it as a 2 year window and then its a bit of a crap shoot after that -- not impossible with Alex at 36 but it could go either way.  That's what I meant by if I were Jacksonville I'd think trading for Alex is brilliant -- they are closer to being on the verge and much of that is they play in the weak AFC.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Yes, clearly the only reason someone wouldn’t be enamored with Smith is because they are bitter.  It couldn’t possibly be that they’ve watched him play for over a decade and have built an opinion on him way before he ever became the QB of the Redskins.  I’d be willing to bet many of Smith’s current biggest fans on this forum were not big on him prior to him becoming a Redskin.  It’d be interesting to go back in time and pull the gameday thread and the talk leading up to last years meeting just to see how opinions have changed with the color of the uniform.  I don’t see anybody ‘hating’ on Smith or focusing on him as a weakness of the team.  What I see is someone grossly inflating a preseason performance and another calling them on it.  I’m not quite sure how calling Smith a good QB is hating.

[Morneblade]

18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I've broken it down before, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with taking what the defense gives you on third down even if it's short of the sticks. Fans hate it, but that doesn't make you a bad QB. In fact, you could very much argue the opposite. Reversing field position is so critical to winning football games. A great day for a QB is leading your team to 27 points, I think we can all agree on that. That's 3 TD's and 2 FGs. There are an average of about 12 drives per game. That means you come up empty more than 50% of the time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with throwing short of the sticks, punting it, and flipping the field. Its called being smart. Maybe has something to do with being the only player besides Tom Brady to win 50+ games since 2013? Hmmmmm

 

There is absolutely a faction of this fan base that claims Alex is a good enough QB but it seems that's more of a statement to hide behind if anything. You couldn't tell by the tone of their posts or the stats they bring to the table that they think Alex is a good QB.

 

-There isn't, until you need to. And Alex just isn't the guy that is going to really do that.

-I would laugh at that. It's the most inaccurate "stat" out there. Judging a QB by wins. So, you are saying that because he "won" more games in that time that Smith is better than:

Rodgers

Brees

Ryan

Rothlisberger

Watson

Stafford

Carr

Luck

 

I could go on.

 

No, I don't think Alex is better than most of these guys. And he is not why the TEAM won more games than others. I look at a Rushing attack that has almost always been really good. Alex has had Frank Gore, Jamal Charles and Kareem Hunt as his RB's God, that would be nice. He's also had a multitude of top 10 and top Defenses backing him up. So, when I see a stat like that, I laugh. Because I know it wasn't one guy. Now, you look at some of the really bad teams Rodgers has had, his wins become more impressive, because he had a lot less help. But Smith never had to put a bad team on his back, or a highly injured team and made them competitive. What he will do is not loose a game for you.

 

And there is also a faction of this fanbase that liked to hide behind Alex being good, but then make statements that portray him as Tom Brady, with legs. And it's silly.

[Sandy Monk]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

But Smith never had to put a bad team on his back

 

How many QBs did or do and actually get all the way? 

 

Even Rodgers.. who is better.. never won a SB until he had a top 5 defense, strong run game, and 3 excellent WRs to help. 

Who other then the great Tommy Boy is doing so wonderfully with a bad team? where's your lists on that?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

As fans of the team expressing optimism for a season, I have less a problem with those people going a bit over the top on the compliments. I am more disappointed by the people that get carried away with rabidly going after those compliments. There seems to be a great deal of zealous correcting of the people making complimentary remarks. That's where it gets odd, and feels like hate, and it's usually based around Kirk Cousins. 

 

I think it depends on your perspective.  I see some of the so called "optimists" as being hypocrites also based on Kirk because some of those same people were piling on the loses last year in the glass is half empty type of way.   Now that Kirk is gone those loses are spun in a positive way -- but if you read some of those posts at the time -- you'd get a chuckle.

 

But I don't really think its Kirk who drives the boat as the underpinning of some of the discussion.  The one IMO who is polarizing is Bruce.  And again the take depends on the perspective.  

 

There are threads where you can talk players.  A lot of people stake their claim BEFORE the moves are made.  In my book, those posts are much more interesting.  What do you want to happen and why.  And that take is pure. You are talking pure football.   Your feeling about Bruce and the FO has nothing to do with anything because you are making your claim in advance.  Lets take Alex.  I digested the idea of trading for Alex BEFORE it ever came about.  And I did it exhaustively.  My opinion about the trade then and now has been absolutely consistent.   I actually said what I'd like to see the FO do BEFORE they did it.  If they did what I wanted I'd praise them -- like I always do when they do what I pushed in advanced. 

 

But some take a criticism of a move as an indictment of Bruce as if the opinion came about AFTER it happened.  So they rush to the FO's defense as if any criticism is based on some passive aggressive attempt to undermine him.   And that turns as to the underpinning of the discussion.  To me that's wrong and even worse its boring.  The FO made a move so it's = good.  And if you don't like it -- then you are a hater.  It's ridiculous IMO.  So again, I think it depends on the perspective you are coming at it from.  You are new, so this isn't directed at you.  Just explaining some of the dynamics as I see it.   And I know i am not the only one. 

 

And sorry for the caps -- they weren't directed at you.  I just wanted to bring home why I don't think the so called "optimists" have even a whit of moral high ground.  To me optimistic feelings are great -- I've myself predicted this team to go 10-6 two seasons in a row.  I almost always predict them to win on the game day thread.   

 

1 hour ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I also think they are close, if I were to actually make some rigid QB ranking list. The age of Smith doesn't bother me, as I see this regime as a 3 yr SB window anyway, and they will draft a QBotF in a year or two when time to rebuild. Kirk's now gone, so I really couldn't care less what happens in Minnesota. Kirk was long gone anyway, so I am incredulous of the people still clinging to his memory. 

 

I don't think people are clinging to his memory.  As a veteran of the Kirk debate -- these are the three points I've observed cooking for most who didn't endorse what went down.

 

Depending on the poster

 

A.  Do you trust the decision maker who led to Kirk's ouster -- are you happy that he's making the decisions going forward at least for now

 

or

 

B.  the age factor.  30-34 year old QB versus 34-38 year old QB.  Is it apples to apples.

 

or.

 

C.  you have a young roster, go get a young QB, too. 

 

Having said that, I just wanted to respond to this point you made. I don't want to relive the Kirk debate as to the contract on this thread, though.  I am burnt out.    Speaking of boring, people have heard my say on it enough. 

[Sandy Monk]

Burnt out sounds right. Old painful memories, be gone. PTSD over management and pas failures, be gone. 

 

I am so ready to move on from the past BS from the team, and just enjoy this new era. If it turns out no better, shake it off, and start over yet again. It's just sports entertainment. Not that serious. 

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

Burnt out sounds right. Old painful memories, be gone. PTSD over management and pas failures, be gone. 

 

I am so ready to move on from the past BS from the team, and just enjoy this new era. If it turns out no better, shake it off, and start over yet again. It's just sports entertainment. Not that serious. 

 

Same, there is a reason I never mention Cousins when I talk about Smith, it triggers people.

21 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

How many QBs did or do and actually get all the way? 

 

Even Rodgers.. who is better.. never won a SB until he had a top 5 defense, strong run game, and 3 excellent WRs to help. 

Who other then the great Tommy Boy is doing so wonderfully with a bad team? where's your lists on that?

 

Tommy Boy never did it with a bad team either, but he gets more out of less than almost anyone I've seen. I really hate the Pats, but I have to give him that.

[skinny21]

I’d say the idea of a qb taking a bad team on his back and winning a Super Bowl is a fiction.  There are just too many games, too many good teams, etc. to ‘do it alone’.

The flip side is that I think we’ve all seen qbs seemingly will their not-so-good teams to victories.  Guys that have stood out to me in this regard are Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Wilson, among others.  Doesn’t mean others, including Smith, have never had that type of game, just that it’s not something you expect them to do.  

 

[Mussrat]

side not on running topics.  If anyone can find a video of alex smith’s block on greg ellis you all will get a kick out of it, it’s great(I searched but couldn’t find it).  Even back in college Smith loved contact.  He tends to play really well after taking a hard hit. 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I've seen some gunslinger references here as to his style of play here and on twitter.   Some want to bill him as the opposite of Kirk where its framed of course all in a good way to Alex and in a bad way to Kirk.  And IMO in that process, some people are getting carried away. Heck it was even a topic on Cooley's show weeks back before that show went off the air. 

 

But as I've said on this thread multiple times, Kirk and Alex are ironically are on a similar ride reputation wise.  They are in some ways stylistically quite different and in some ways very similar.  But both are deemed by their critics as good QBs but lack that special quality to take it up to that next peg. 

 

 Alex IMO is good.  Its very hard to be a good Qb in the league -- most Qbs stink or are mediocre.  It's not easy to be a good QB.  My issue with dumping Kirk for Alex is the age difference.  To me that's a big deal.  And yeah I think Bruce grossly mishandled the contract but I have other reasons to dislike Bruce that extends beyond Kirk.

 

I've said on this thread many times, I think Alex and Kirk are close ability wise.  I'd take Kirk over Alex because of upside and age.  But I've said i have no problem with people who see them as the same caliber, Kirk is slightly better, or even those who think Alex is slightly better.  Reason being, none of those scenarios would surprise me -- Kirk ends up slightly better, Alex ends up slightly better or they end up the same.  All of those scenarios don't seem far fetched to me. The only thing that would surprise me is if one ends up way better than the other.

 

But yeah I look forward to the RPO-RO aspect of Alex, that's what I think is realistic and should be fun to watch.  But the idea that he's a poor's man Drew Brees and he will chuck it down the field and take big risks because that's how he rolls and will put up monster numbers.  I don't see it.  But I'd love to see it happen.  I live and die with each game on Sunday.  Heck if Alex throws for 400 yards and throws the ball 40 times, etc and we win a bunch of games -- I can care less if someone on this thread tells me hey i told you so, Alex is indeed this monster passer who will kill you from the pocket and take big chances that pay off -- I'd gladly eat crow and bask in the wins.   

 

It's all cool with me.  But I have very specific impressions of Alex from watching him.  And they are positive.  But they aren't these beaming over the moon impressions.  I am disappointed in the Guice injury because I was especially looking forward to the Alex-Guice dynamic for RO and RPO.  But Robert Kelley -- am having a hard time getting jazzed about that. 

 

 

I expect you to be happily surprised. Minnesota should have traded for Smith. 

2 hours ago, Mussrat said:

side not on running topics.  If anyone can find a video of alex smith’s block on greg ellis you all will get a kick out of it, it’s great(I searched but couldn’t find it).  Even back in college Smith loved contact.  He tends to play really well after taking a hard hit. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sandy Monk]

8 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Tommy Boy never did it with a bad team either, but he gets more out of less than almost anyone I've seen. I really hate the Pats, but I have to give him that.

 

Agreed, and I commend you for now conceding as much. I hope that you and others can now stop stating this as a flaw of Smith's, since basically no QBs carry their teams all the way unless they receive a good bit of help to get there.

 

The ones that seem to do it more usually get a ton of help from the officiating, imho, which goes under the radar later and perpetuates this mythical super QB dream that carries all to the finish line. It's preposterous, and makes all the little kids think the bestest QBs are holding hands with Jesus. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

I expect you to be happily surprised. Minnesota should have traded for Smith. 

 

 

 

Ok, hopefully.  For now I am running with what I've seen from the games I've watched -- where I've liked his play, not loved it,  And if I recall you didn't think much of Kirk so I am gathering the bar isn't though that high for Alex from that perspective.

 

My overriding point about Alex though isn't the good versus great (I can entertain the idea that maybe he ends up better than good) but how short of a window do we have of him in his prime and does the roster match up to take it to the big dance in that time frame.  As for Minny, they got the killer roster so a veteran QB could indeed take them over the top.  I like this roster but I don't see them on the brink of the Superbowl in the stacked NFC maybe if we were in the AFC. 

[bedlamVR]

@Skinsinparadise I kind of understand your take on the Alex Smith thing (belatedly) I think too many people maybe hailing him as a saviour - I think he is going to be good and I think the offense is not going to miss a beat but he is not going to be mistaken for Carlson Wentz who was amazing last season. There are some things that he does are impressive and you can see that he has developed into a much better QB than he was when he was drafted 1 overall... I remember following that draft and had Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith been reversed in their draft night and subsequent career trajectories drama I think Smith would be  the man in Green Bay - and Rodgers would have no longer been in football - I am not sure many could have survived Smiths baptsim into the NFL with the 9ers. 

 

I think it would have been amazing to see Smith come out this year with Guice and I think we would have been real - if outside contenders for the big game - Now i am less optimistic I am thinking a wildcard birth and playoff run is possible but I worry about the ability of the offense to get in the endzone ... and just how effective and healthy Smith is going to stay without a legitimate rushing attack. However the defense is another story - i think this is going to be a season in which we see that defense come of age... 

 

Speaking of age -  but i was having this discussion with a friend of mine yesterday - we were talking about Tom Brady 41 (GOAT) but then also the other top QBs Arron Rodgers (34), Drew Brees (39), Philp Rivers (36/37) Eli Manning (37) Ben Rothlesberger (36) even Matt Ryan is 33 as is Joe Flaco. I just wonder if, how the game is changing and passing is becoming the norm and the offensive lines being seen as more important than a good RB for example - with a few exceptions none of these guys look like they are slowing down - Some might have had enough and some prematurely may have been shoved towards the door but that is most of the best QBs in the game today are all in their mid 30s - I am just wondering if the game (and technology in terms of training and rehab) is shifting the game so that QBs really can play into their mid 40s without their skills diminishing significantly ... 

 

i know you have reservations about running QBs who get to this age suddenly seeing their ability fall off the map - but Smith to me has always been a QB who can run (Andrew Luck style) as opposed to as runner who can play QB (RGIII- Vick etc) - and the most important aspect of Smiths athleticism isn't in belting out those massive runs but those little movements he makes in the pocket (that he demonstrated briefly on Thursday)  that buys the extra seconds for guys to make a play ...

 

HTTR

 

[Sandy Monk]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ok, hopefully.  For now I am running with what I've seen from the games I've watched -- where I've liked his play, not loved it,  And if I recall you didn't think much of Kirk so I am gathering the bar isn't though that high for Alex from that perspective.

 

My overriding point about Alex though isn't the good versus great (I can entertain the idea that maybe he ends up better than good) but how short of a window do we have of him in his prime and does the roster match up to take it to the big dance in that time frame.  As for Minny, they got the killer roster so a veteran QB could indeed take them over the top.  I like this roster but I don't see them on the brink of the Superbowl in the stacked NFC maybe if we were in the AFC. 

 

I know you have probably been over this a million times, but if you could indulge me, why is it that you feel the team is not ready to compete for the gold? They won 7 games with an obliterated starting unit. If better health occurs, why the heck can they not win 9 or 10 and maybe be hot in the postseason?

 

Sure, it's a tough conference and division, but I just don't get the unwillingness in giving them a chance, at this stage of the season. It just feels like there's something unspoken going on here. I don't know that there is, but this is what and why I touched on it earlier. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yes, clearly the only reason someone wouldn’t be enamored with Smith is because they are bitter.  It couldn’t possibly be that they’ve watched him play for over a decade and have built an opinion on him way before he ever became the QB of the Redskins.

2

 

I have my serious doubts that anyone here has actually been watching Smith play for over a decade.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

@Skinsinparadise I kind of understand your take on the Alex Smith thing (belatedly) I think too many people maybe hailing him as a saviour - I think he is going to be good and I think the offense is not going to miss a beat but he is not going to be mistaken for Carlson Wentz who was amazing last season. T

 

That sort of summarizes my position.  He's good but I think this stud narrative that some have takes it too far.  I am not saying its not possible.  It's certainly possible for a player to be peaking and improving at 34 -- but I don't see that as likely to the degree where we should count on that as slam dunk and anyone who doesn't believe that's the case just hates the dude.  Like the analogy I used previously, just because I don't believe a restaurant is Michelin star level excellent but I still like the food doesn't translate to me hating the food.  Heck I am even open to the idea that the chef is kicking it up a notch, just you wait.  Sure, that's possible.  But I need to eat that food to believe it versus just putting it in the bank based on a narrative that someone is coming up with.

 

I'll use Da'Ron Payne as an analogy.  I like him.  I mentioned the dude first from what I recall on the draft thread way back in Sept. My issue with him was I didn't love him as a NT.  And liked Derwin James in particular over him.  But I said if Payne is who he was against Georgia, then it was a good pick.  Payne to me looked like that against the Jets.  So if he keeps playing like that I am sold.  Alex same thing.  If I saw Alex throw the ball 40 times for 350 yards or whatever and beat Arizona without that much help from a running game -- then seeing is believing.  There is a big difference between thinking a player is good and stinking.  But good to great -- I have to see it to believe it unless I am already sold on the greatness.  But my mind is always open on that front.

 

11 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

 

Speaking of age -  but i was having this discussion with a friend of mine yesterday - we were talking about Tom Brady 41 (GOAT) but then also the other top QBs Arron Rodgers (34), Drew Brees (39), Philp Rivers (36/37) Eli Manning (37) Ben Rothlesberger (36) even Matt Ryan is 33 as is Joe Flaco. I just wonder if, how the game is changing and passing is becoming the norm and the offensive lines being seen as more important than a good RB for example - with a few exceptions none of these guys look like they are slowing down

 

 

Maybe.  Rodgers and Big Ben and Brees are IMO elite Qbs.  Eli to me has lost it -- he would be an example for concern.  Flacco probably too.  I am not saying Alex can't be in that group, am saying I see it as a wildcard and him being a running QB to me is part of that.

 

13 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

i know you have reservations about running QBs who get to this age suddenly seeing their ability fall off the map - but Smith to me has always been a QB who can run (Andrew Luck style) as opposed to as runner who can play QB (RGIII- Vick etc) - and the most important aspect of Smiths athleticism isn't in belting out those massive runs but those little movements he makes in the pocket (that he demonstrated briefly on Thursday)  that buys the extra seconds for guys to make a play ...

 

I am a little different on Alex.  I don't think he has the arm strength to be one of those guys who kills you in the pocket.   He's good in the pocket but IMO nothing special.  Where Alex to me is special is the RO-RPO.  I've put up clips here of the funky formations that he played with -- confusing the heck out of the defense, it enhances the running game, etc.   Can he still be that same type of threat at 36, 37, etc.  Got no idea.  But its not IMO some slam dunk certainty.