Voice_of_Reason

Game of Thrones Season 8

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

 

So yes, Dragons = cheat codes. They had to even the playing field to make it a bit harder for Dany to take back "her seat" ... so they eliminated the other two to advance plot. Though I agree/admit they could have eliminated Rhaegal in a different manner. I just don't think they wanted Jon riding a dragon into battle with Dany, thus elimination.

 

Also, this is why I still think Jon wins the throne, abdicates it to some form of democracy/rule of elders ... and goes North to live freely.

 

Now that would have made more sense of setting Dany off. Rhaegal gets killed in the battle while they are trying to avoid civilians and then she is like **** It, they are all gonna burn now. 

Edited by Hersh

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Posted (edited)

How I would have drawn it up.

 

Jon goes to Dragonstone to court Dany to fight for the North. She understands the threat, is intrigued by Jon, spends time with him on Dragonstone and begins falling in love, but opts to go to KL. Jon heads back North. Cersei brings everyone into the City tempting Dany to burn the city alive. She lays a seige on the City, opting to wait Cersei out and hope th people rise against her. She and her army sit outside the gates with her 3 dragons. During this time, we get the Tyrion/Jaime dialogue/banter, Varys is able to pull strings with his little birds on the inside, etc. etc. ... and just as they've starved out Cersei and the people of KL and Cersei is crumbling, word comes down from Jon that the NK has reached the wall. Jon is at the wall, sends a raven. Dany flies up, and they decide to have her fly Drogon North of the wall scope out the NK and army and figure out defenses. During this, Dany and Drogon are shot down. Drogon escapes but is badly wounded and goes back to Dragonstone without her. In the chaos, Jon jumps on Rhaegal, and with Viseryon in pursuit, goes down and saves Dany and brings her back up to the wall. Viseryis is taken down and turned, giving the NK and his army access to the south via Wall blast (ala in the real events).

 

Dany and the northerners retreat to Winterfell where they set up defenses against the NK.

 

Meanwhile, in KL, Euron rolls up with his fleet and offers to help Cersei, who is desparate. Jaime has gone North having been won over by Tyrion and sensing a real threat since Dany rolled out with her army when KL was about to fall.

 

In the battle for Winterfell, Jon loses Rhaegal but survives. Almost all of Dany's armies are wiped. Maybe Dany gets touched briefly by the NK when she's down north of the wall and "changes" as aresult, and slowly, through the deaths and beytrayals and Jon's true parentage being revealed, Dany slips more and more. When they get to KL, and Dany sees that Cersei has restrengthened, and Dany, exhausted from the Siege, and then the fight north, and all the losses along the way, having almost tasted the victory in KL with a peaceful overthrow, snaps. Same end result last night, etc. but it is more understandable, given that she almost had it the first time peacefully, the people didnt overthrow Cersei, and Dany returns to a strengthened KL with just one dragon, an injured but now fired up Drogon, and snaps. Goes mad, wipes out the city. and it would me a bit more sense, because youd see her slow demise to madness, and the whole "the NK touched her and maybe triggered something" part. Also the NK and WW situation gets handled better. No Avengers going north for a wite in a day.

 

Okay, def. end of my nerdfest. Sorry.

12 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Now that would have made more sense of setting Dany off. Rhaegal gets killed in the battle while they are trying to avoid civilians and then she is like **** It, they are all gonna burn now. 

Yeah, or an arrow takes him down but he doesn't die. And as he struggles to regain himself on the ground, a crowd of civilians jump on him and slowly cut him to death. Seeing this, Dany snaps. Amend my above story to reflect Rhaegal going down in KL instead of at Winterfell, and having that loss of Rhaegal and butchering by the people of KL making her snap.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins

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3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

 

Season 8 (10 episodes): the long night. Strategic battles against the WW. Several hardhome type moments. Lots of maps and strategy room scenes similar to Robb’s camps during the war of the 5 kings. We have great battle plans from Tyrion that are keeping the group as successful as they are. Some of the WW are defeated so the hero’s have some small victories and battles but ultimately are losing the war and attrition is starting to set in. They are up against it.

 

 

 

I would not watch this show. I honestly think you were the only person deeply invested in the Night King. You want five or six weeks of a Friday the 13th movie.

 

This really sounds awful.

 

 

Is everyone really fantasy booking Game of Threads like it's WrestleMania?

 

 

PS

 

Arya is going to be at Gendry's new house this next episode and nowhere near anyone who needs killing.

 

You people are really bad at reading storylines and symbolism. She's done. That white horse is her riding away from Arya Super Ninja. My guess is that we are expected to believe that she will never draw a sword again after this. She has seen where all this hate and violence and revenge leads. Falling to your death, holding your undead brother waiting to be engulfed in dragon fire.

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4 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Is everyone really fantasy booking Game of Threads like it's WrestleMania?

 

Probably. A Song of Heels and Faces.

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Arya is going to be at Gendry's new house this next episode and nowhere near anyone who needs killing.

 

You people are really bad at reading storylines and symbolism. She's done. That white horse is her riding away from Arya Super Ninja. My guess is that we are expected to believe that she will never draw a sword again after this. She has seen where all this hate and violence and revenge leads. Falling to your death, holding your undead brother waiting to be engulfed in dragon fire.

I think she could go either way.  It really seemed like for a while Arya was just another person running in the chaos trying to survive and help some others at times after turning her back on revenge.  Which is thought was brilliant.  But it could also be that she decides she has to stop Dany to keep that from happening again.  

 

she doesn’t seem like she is leaving right away in the preview however.  If she survives and/or kills Dany though, I would not be surprised to see her reconsider Gendry’s offer or some other less dangerous pursuit for a while.

Edited by visionary

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I would not watch this show. I honestly think you were the only person deeply invested in the Night King. You want five or six weeks of a Friday the 13th movie.

 

No, I’m not the only one. I think the WW deserved a payoff as the greatest threat the world has ever seen, which is exactly how they’ve been built up for 7+ seasons, not just to be defeated in a couple hours like it was no big deal. 

 

I dont know why you wouldn’t be interested in that. A few WW battles or moments spread out over a season with the humans and political dynamics being the main part of the season doesn’t sound so bad even for those that hate the fantasy elements of the story. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man

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Unfortunately this thread has become nothing more than a broken record. 😔

 

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3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Season 8 (10 episodes): the long night. Strategic battles against the WW. Several hardhome type moments. Lots of maps and strategy room scenes similar to Robb’s camps during the war of the 5 kings. We have great battle plans from Tyrion that are keeping the group as successful as they are. Some of the WW are defeated so the hero’s have some small victories and battles but ultimately are losing the war and attrition is starting to set in. They are up against it.

 

 

 

Tyrion is the reason everyone is dead. He's the worst strategist of ALL-TIME. 

13 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

No, I’m not the only one. I think the WW deserved a payoff as the greatest threat the world has ever seen, which is exactly how they’ve been built up for 7+ seasons, not just to be defeated in a couple hours like it was no big deal. 

 

I dont know why you wouldn’t be interested in that. A few WW battles or moments spread out over a season with the humans and political dynamics being the main part of the season doesn’t sound so bad even for those that hate the fantasy elements of the story. 

 

I didn't mind one big epic battle. It was just the all time dumbest battle plan ever. Maybe they could've shown the WW dominating the place north they was run by the kid that ended up on the wall. That would have been cool especially if it was the actual WW elite guys doing it. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Tyrion is the reason everyone is dead. He's the worst strategist of ALL-TIME. 

 

He’s not but he was written that way the last two seasons for the sole purpose of nerfing Dany’s army so she could have a realistic and even fight with Cersei. When in actuality she wiped the floor with everyone anyway.

 

They wrote Tyrion as a colossal bumbling idiot for no reason. That fixes that letting him show his brilliance as he did throughout the series while still whittling Dany’s army down through a series of fights with the WW 

 

not that it mattered anyway. We all saw the Dothraki ride off and get annihilated and we all saw Grey Worm pull the trench and sacrifice his unsullied yet the plot demands Dany have some forces so they magically have tens of thousands available. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Arya is going to be at Gendry's new house this next episode and nowhere near anyone who needs killing.

 

I guess we might as well ruin her character too making her a cute housewife for Gendry. 

 

I dont care if she kills again but she shouldn’t be with Gendry

 

 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man

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1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I guess we might as well ruin her character too making her a cute housewife for Gendry. 

She’s been through a lot of ****.   She’s probably never going to be a ‘proper lady’, but she deserves to relax for a while somewhere.

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5 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

She can be security for Hot Pie's tavern

Brilliant. Cause the Kings Road ain’t exactly a walk in the park. Back when it was allowed to be experienced in the show 

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56 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

He’s not but he was written that way the last two seasons for the sole purpose of nerfing Dany’s army so she could have a realistic and even fight with Cersei. When in actuality she wiped the floor with everyone anyway.

 

They wrote Tyrion as a colossal bumbling idiot for no reason. That fixes that letting him show his brilliance as he did throughout the series while still whittling Dany’s army down through a series of fights with the WW 

 

not that it mattered anyway. We all saw the Dothraki ride off and get annihilated and we all saw Grey Worm pull the trench and sacrifice his unsullied yet the plot demands Dany have some forces so they magically have tens of thousands available. 

 

Are you saying he's not the worst strategist ever according to the books? Otherwise you can't say he isn't but they wrote him to be exactly that in the show. I mean you can say that but it's a total contradiction. They really didn't build his character up to be an amazing war strategist in the early seasons that I can remember. That's far different from being hand to the queen.   

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To me, the point of the show was “who takes the iron throne to rule Westeros” not “Lets save civilization from white walkers”. The white walkers were always a side quest to the main boss.

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This is a copy/paste of a post I wrote elsewhere online, but I wanted to include it here because the discussion on this topic has been very interesting. I read a piece on I think Vox that put into perspective my biggest problem with the direction and focus of the episode. 

 

The reason the Mad Queen stuff doesn't work is that I've yet to find a clear consensus on what Dany's motivation is. This is a significant major character and nobody is sure what truly motivated her or what she's thinking.

 

I've seen three schools of thought:

 

1. Dany has truly gone insane like the Mad King, implied by her actions and the voices she hears during the Previously On. Oh wow, the show is taking a nihilistic stand on nature vs. nurture! It's depressing, so that means it's deep!

 

This would justify firing on her own soldiers while skipping over the Red Keep, except that Dany doesn't think burning down a city will cause her to transcend and become a dragon or some ****. The Mad King was really, truly insane and had been for a long time before he committed his worst act. There's not a great deal of parallel to be had in their stories.

 

2. Dany was Mad about her dragon and friend and wanted to seek revenge on a piece of **** ruler. That's only fair, right?

 

Sure, except this doesn't explain why she skipped over the Red Keep and put her own army at risk. Further, D&D themselves said the burning of the city was not premeditated. So this motivation is garbage. 

 

3. Dany felt empty and alone after her victory and said "**** it, burn em all." If only Jon had done his part and had sex with his aunt.

 

I actually have the most sympathy for this motivation, but the least amount of time and effort was put into developing it. This motivation requires a ton of historical context and internality that we don't get and, frankly, it turns her character into a weak, unlikable asshole that's a mile separated from the Dany we grew to know. 

 

The real problem is that D&D thought it was better to film the battle from the perspective of those being destroyed in order to make a comment on war, instead of putting us in the head of a major character with only 2 hours left in the series. Because of the third person limited perspective that Martin employs, this never would have happened in the books. We would have seen at least some of this story through Dany's eyes and her motivations would have been explored. Instead, we got this ****.

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He probably came out of that battle healthier than he does most NFL seasons. 

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On 2/20/2018 at 1:59 AM, Gamebreaker said:

GRRM is more interested in writing stories that he can sell HBO the rights to after GoT ends. He just wants to make as much money as possible before he dies. He doesn't care about finishing the ASOIAF, he doesn't care about his fans either. I also don't care. He's not as good as he, or his fans think he is, I've moved onto much better writers(like Brandon Sanderson) who can keep their word and not lie about what books their writing. 

 

He's really good, let's not go too far.  I came to his books in adulthood, so I'll never love them the way I love Tolkien and Robert Jordan.  But in some ways, he's a finer writer than they are.  His style is exceptional for a genre fiction writer in general, and a high fantasy writer in particular.  Yes, it's disappointing that he's failed in his goal of writing ASOIAF, but he was experimenting with the boundaries of the genre.  I won't kill an artist for experimenting and ultimately failing, especially when in the process they created some good art.  And I also won't ever kill an artist for not cranking out work that's uninspired just for the sake of his publishing company and fans.

 

I was in High School when Robert Jordan got super sick and I remember that it was very distressing.  I'd never met him, but I feel like you come to know and love a writer's mind in ways that you don't with artists in other mediums.  But also, I was just sad that he wouldn't get a chance to finish his great work.  That experience seasoned me to being OK with a great and epic story being left unfinished.  That's why Marin quitting on ASOIAF doesn't hurt that bad.  You've got to appreciate the journey.

 

And yes I know that Sanderson technically finished WoT, but I hated the ones he wrote so much that I pretend they don't exist.  IMO it was a catastrophic artistic mistake to get him to finish the series.  Having a novelist take over another novelist's baby like that raises it into a Frankenstein's monster.  The work degenerates into fan fiction and the spell is completely broken.  I hated the Sanderson WoT books so much that it's kept me from reading his own work.  I don't blame him, he's a super nice guy and gave a lot of himself to complete an impossible and flawed artistic boondoggle for the sake of a great fantasy writer's widow and fans.  But it's poisoned my perception of his style.

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7 hours ago, Springfield said:

To me, the point of the show was “who takes the iron throne to rule Westeros” not “Lets save civilization from white walkers”. The white walkers were always a side quest to the main boss.

 

The first scene in the pilot episode shows the Wall and a White Walker attacking men of the Night's Watch. 

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36 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

  I hated the Sanderson WoT books so much that it's kept me from reading his own work.  I don't blame him, he's a super nice guy and gave a lot of himself to complete an impossible and flawed artistic boondoggle for the sake of a great fantasy writer's widow and fans.  But it's poisoned my perception of his style.

 

You're missing out, Stormlight Archive is greatness

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