Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[clskinsfan]

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Whatever positives that want to be spun on this one will never make up for the fact it looks like we're letting Cousins leave for nothing, no trade for a first rounder, nothing.  If that's what we're planning to do, I'll live with it, but I don't support it.  Smith is 33 years old, we should've drafted a QB, no way he's going to be the same player in 3-4 years.

 

Not really. We will be getting the 3rd rounder back in 2019 once Kirk leaves. We basically traded Fuller for Smith. And solidified the QB position for the next few seasons with a guy that WANTED to be here. And Smith is an upgrade over Cousins.

[ncr2h]

Also, for all the people who were clamoring for a cheaper QB so that we could use the rest of the cap space to build the rest of the team, if we let Cousins walk and start signing FAs it will impact our comp pick.  Sure, if we let Cousins walk and don't sign anybody we will get a 3rd round comp pick.  But if we use the "extra space" we've created by "going cheap" at QB, the comp pick is put at risk and will almost certainly either be lower or non-existent.

 

So, similar to the post-2015 negotiations with Cousins, Allen has painted himself into a corner where he actually has to root for the Skins to suck in order to win the deal.  At that time, he was praying that Cousins would have a down year in 2016 so that we could sign him for a cheap deal - if Cousins were to have a down year, the Skins would also probably have a down year.  So he was essentially rooting for the skins to suck so that he could win the deal.  Similarly, with letting Cousins go, we are now in a position where if we use the pittance of cap space we've created, we will lose the draft pick.  So we either stay pat and the team sucks, but we get an additional mid-round pick, or we use the cap space and lose a pick.

[clskinsfan]

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

"I want to be where I'm wanted" is the mantra often repeated.  Not even hearing from the team at all sends a pretty clear message.  The ball was in their court, not Kirk's.  And for the record, Kirk and his agent counter offered their 2015 end of season low ball offer.  That's a indication that he wanted to be here.  

 

Yeah. But they didnt counter last years off season offer. An offer that Kirk's agent told him "shows you they want you" and was a "serious offer". It takes two sides to make a deal.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Not really. We will be getting the 3rd rounder back in 2019 once Kirk leaves. We basically traded Fuller for Smith. And solidified the QB position for the next few seasons with a guy that WANTED to be here. And Smith is an upgrade over Cousins.

How is that type of compensation decided?  You really prefer this instead of getting a first rounder in trading Cousins and drafting a QB?

[ncr2h]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Not really. We will be getting the 3rd rounder back in 2019 once Kirk leaves. We basically traded Fuller for Smith. And solidified the QB position for the next few seasons with a guy that WANTED to be here. And Smith is an upgrade over Cousins.

 

So we won't be using the extra ~3.5M in cap space to sign players?  We only get the 3rd round comp pick (more like a high 4th rounder since they come after the 32nd pick in the 3rd round) if, on average, we let FAs go who are worth much, much more than the FAs we sign.  If the idea is that we're going to use all of our cap space on FAs, then we won't be getting a 3rd round comp pick (if any).

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, ncr2h said:

Also, for all the people who were clamoring for a cheaper QB so that we could use the rest of the cap space to build the rest of the team, if we let Cousins walk and start signing FAs it will impact our comp pick.  Sure, if we let Cousins walk and don't sign anybody we will get a 3rd round comp pick.  But if we use the "extra space" we've created by "going cheap" at QB, the comp pick is put at risk and will almost certainly either be lower or non-existent.

 

So, similar to the post-2015 negotiations with Cousins, Allen has painted himself into a corner where he actually has to root for the Skins to suck in order to win the deal.  At that time, he was praying that Cousins would have a down year in 2016 so that we could sign him for a cheap deal - if Cousins were to have a down year, the Skins would also probably have a down year.  So he was essentially rooting for the skins to suck so that he could win the deal.  Similarly, with letting Cousins go, we are now in a position where if we use the pittance of cap space we've created, we will lose the draft pick.  So we either stay pat and the team sucks, but we get an additional mid-round pick, or we use the cap space and lose a pick.

 

Not true. The comp pick is based on the players salary and playing time. As long as Kirk doesnt get hurt next year we WILL be getting the comp pick. He is going to be the highest paid free agent in history. You can read about how comp picks work here:

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

[NoCalMike]

I am not sure how Alex Smith's contract is structured, however I imagine the Redskins are drafting a QB either this offseason or next, and the plan will be for the QB to sit a season or two before Alex Smith is cut prior to the end of his contract.  That is likely how his time here plays out.

 

As far as the Fuller trade goes? It sucks. Yeah I don't like it either.  Maybe the front office felt the secondary has enough depth to absorb the loss?  Breeland is gone too to free agency most likely.  

 

The magnitude of this trade is temporarily blinding people to the fact that there is still the draft and free agency period prior to the season.   We still don't know what this team plans to do other than make Alex Smith the QB and let Cousins walk.

 

We are still in a wait & see situation.  It's still January.....lot of "winning off the field" time left before training camp. 

[DJHJR86]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Yeah. But they didnt counter last years off season offer. An offer that Kirk's agent told him "shows you they want you" and was a "serious offer". It takes two sides to make a deal.

Because he was already tagged and due to make the amount that was guaranteed in the offer for the 2nd year (assuming he would be tagged again at least on the transition tag).  It made no sense to counter that joke of an offer after they already lowballed him twice before.

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

How is that type of compensation decided?  You really prefer this instead of getting a first rounder in trading Cousins and drafting a QB?

 

Dont forget we got an EXCELLENT qb out of the deal. Smith's numbers were better than Cousins last year. And his career winning percentage and TD% are FAR abve anything Cousins has ever done.

[DJHJR86]

11 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

Not hearing from the team when he has publically said he doesn't want to hear from the team because he isn't going to talk to them before the tag deadline? Like I said - he could have picked the phone up himself instead of creating a sideshow with that dumb mantra. Everybody wants to be where they're wanted. He said in the season he felt wanted in Washington last year, they tagged him two years in a row. Unless he specifically wanted Bruce on his knees to prove how much he was wanted then that mantra is nothing but an empty, meaningless soundbite.

 

You are aware that this "sideshow" could have been avoided had this FO not been dumb enough to low ball him 3 different times and franchise him back to back years, right?

[Renegade7]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

 

Dont forget we got an EXCELLENT qb out of the deal. Smith's numbers were better than Cousins last year. And his career winning percentage and TD% are FAR abve anything Cousins has ever done.

Ya, but he's 33 and going to be 34 by time season starts.  How long can we realistically expect his play to stay level before it tapers off?  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

What does this mean for my son though? Once upon a time, I dreamed about father son moments where I'd tell him stories of the glory years. But do I really want him to know this pain? Especially when he's tempted by friends at school wearing purple and rooting for the team slightly up north. Am I really right to say he's tempted by the dark side to just want a winning team that makes good decisions? I've made my bed, but do I need to put that same fate of mysery on him? Its like I'm locked in a dungeon and my son has a chance to get out, but I'm trying to rationalize why the dungeon is where he should be?

Totally understand where you are coming from here.  My son is 10 and was up a little later than normal with me last night watching the end of the Wizards game.  I got a text from my Cousin about the trade and I immediately thought that he saw some stupid FB spam rumor.  I came to the board to see this thread and my heart sunk.  I just knew deep down that it was not only going to be a trade for Smith, but that we would give up a bounty for it while paying him a Brinks truck worth of money.  I told my son and his first response was "Do I HAVE to be a Redskins fan anymore?".  Sad man.

[clskinsfan]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

Because he was already tagged and due to make the amount that was guaranteed in the offer for the 2nd year (assuming he would be tagged again at least on the transition tag).  It made no sense to counter that joke of an offer after they already lowballed him twice before.

 

He said himself that he would not have taken any offer. Period. He wanted to see how the organization would pan out. Look. The bottom line is the Redskins couldnt take the chance that they wouldnt have a good QB. It was definitely a problem of their own making. But personally I feel like they did a good job getting out of the ridiculous drama and upgraded the position at the same time. They basically traded an excellent corner for an excellent QB.

[“Misdirection”]

So it's a POSSIBLE 3rd round pick... next year. And that pick is at the END of the 3rd round. So it's a borderline 4th round pick (may even be 4th anyway after our FA signings are all said and done.

 

And in draft value, a 2018 3rd rounder is worth a 2019 2nd rounder.

 

So if it all works out we gave them Kendall Fuller and a 2018 middle 3rd rounder... for the Alex Smith and the equivalent of a possible 2019 3rd/4th rounder (equivalent of a 2018 4th/5th rounder)

 

Make of that what you will. I don't like it.

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

He said himself that he would not have taken any offer. Period. He wanted to see how the organization would pan out. Look. The bottom line is the Redskins couldnt take the chance that they wouldnt have a good QB. It was definitely a problem of their own making. But personally I feel like they did a good job getting out of the ridiculous drama and upgraded the position at the same time. They basically traded an excellent corner for an excellent QB.

 

We'll see how excellent he is without that excellent supporting cast he had in KC.

[skins4eva]

It’s interesting reading the panic in this thread. I’m actually fairly sanguine about it. Kirk Cousins didn’t want to be here. Let me repeat: Cousins did not want to be here. He and his agent think he’s the most valuable QB in the league. Perhaps they are right. My sense is that true football evaluators see Kirk for what he is: a moderately above average starter who needs others to step up and who will miss throws and get rattled in big games. Sorry, but that’s not the guy to whom you pay 28 mil a year guaranteed. 

 

If we stipulate the above as fact, what were the Skins supposed to do?  Sit on their hands, wait for Cousins to leave and then look for the next best option?  Perhaps. But, if they see value in Smith, and if Gruden thinks Smith could be the guy, then why wait around?  Look, I like Fuller, and he’s a stud, but let’s not sit here and pretend like we just traded away champ bailey or Darrell green. He’s a very talented guy and played the slot well. Let’s see how he performs as a starting CB. It would have been nice to keep him, but I see the logic in locking us in at QB for the next two or three years while we find and groom a replacement. 

 

In any event, I’m not as down on this as many of you. I liked Cousins and wish him success, but I think he was vastly overrated as a QB and I’m glad we didn’t bet the farm on him. 

[Riggo-toni]

We will get a 3rd round comp pick for Cousins, so trading a 3rd for Smith is basically just moving down about ten spots.

Like others have said, it's throwing in Fuller that makes it a genuinely bad deal.

KC is gonna have a nasty pass defense with Marcus Peters and Kendall Fuller.

[bcl05]

I don't know.  I'm very worried that Alex Smith is basically Colt McCoy+Andy Reid.  And while I like Gruden, he isn't Andy Reid.  I dearly hope I'm wrong.  To me, this move says that the Skins brass thinks they are close to elite and need to hold on to this window.  I hope they're right.  I think the talent is there on D (though without Fuller and likely Breeland, the secondary suddenly looks a lot worse than last year), and the OL is a strength, but we need a few more skill position weapons on O.  I do think this trade frees up the draft and allows them to go BPA, since there isn't a really obvious most important need.  

 

I'll certainly keep cheering, but this feels like treading water at best, to me.   Maybe I'm just jaded and can't be optimistic about anything with this team... 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Not really. We will be getting the 3rd rounder back in 2019 once Kirk leaves. We basically traded Fuller for Smith. And solidified the QB position for the next few seasons with a guy that WANTED to be here.

LOL @ wanted to be here.

 

Dude just got done saying yesterday that he wishes he had a choice about his future, but he didn't.  The Redskins simply outbid the lowly Browns for this "upgrade" you speak of. 

 

Hate Kirk all you want, wear your homer glasses and see what you want, but literally everything you just said is straight up horse dung.  There is absolutely no telling if the Redskins even end up with a comp pick for the loss of Cousins.  Kendall Fuller is one of the top rated players at his position with 2 years left at less than a million per.  The third round pick they shipped could have been a starter also on a rookie deal for 4 years at less than a million per.  They are about 99.9% certain to get absolutely nothing in return for the 3 years and 44M investment they made in Cousins.  Yet somehow, some way, in the twilight zone, you come up with this being good for the team? 

[CRobi21]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Dont forget we got an EXCELLENT qb out of the deal. Smith's numbers were better than Cousins last year. And his career winning percentage and TD% are FAR abve anything Cousins has ever done.

 

CLEAR upgrade. Only thing Cousins has on Smith is age.

[TouchdownSkin]

10 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

I'm finished. 

 

37 years 

 

im done

 

No you're not.  ?

[SWFLSkins]

5 minutes ago, skins4eva said:

It’s interesting reading the panic in this thread. I’m actually fairly sanguine about it. Kirk Cousins didn’t want to be here. Let me repeat: Cousins did not want to be here. He and his agent think he’s the most valuable QB in the league. Perhaps they are right. My sense is that true football evaluators see Kirk for what he is: a moderately above average starter who needs others to step up and who will miss throws and get rattled in big games. Sorry, but that’s not the guy to whom you pay 28 mil a year guaranteed. 

 

If we stipulate the above as fact, what were the Skins supposed to do?  Sit on their hands, wait for Cousins to leave and then look for the next best option?  Perhaps. But, if they see value in Smith, and if Gruden thinks Smith could be the guy, then why wait around?  Look, I like Fuller, and he’s a stud, but let’s not sit here and pretend like we just traded away champ bailey or Darrell green. He’s a very talented guy and played the slot well. Let’s see how he performs as a starting CB. It would have been nice to keep him, but I see the logic in locking us in at QB for the next two or three years while we find and groom a replacement. 

 

In any event, I’m not as down on this as many of you. I liked Cousins and wish him success, but I think he was vastly overrated as a QB and I’m glad we didn’t bet the farm on him. 

 

I am OK with all that, I just don't know why you give up a corner like Fuller to pull it off, I think you are undervaluing him. 

[Riggo#44]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Ya, but he's 33 and going to be 34 by time season starts.  How long can we realistically expect his play to stay level before it tapers off?  

 

BUT TOM BRADY IS 41!!!!11!!1111!!!

 

Here is the bigger issue. Every player I've seen on Twitter last night is shocked, at best. Swearinger's reaction:

 

 

[dallasfan]

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Not really. We will be getting the 3rd rounder back in 2019 once Kirk leaves. We basically traded Fuller for Smith. And solidified the QB position for the next few seasons with a guy that WANTED to be here. And Smith is an upgrade over Cousins.

 

This assumes that you guys don't sign x amount of free agents.  If you guys lose 4 and sign 4, you don't still get the 3rd.  If you lose 4 and sign 3, you still aren't guaranteed the pick, depends on the salary of the highest guy you signed as well as the 2nd highest you lost.

[fordranger76]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

LOL @ wanted to be here.

 

Dude just got done saying yesterday that he wishes he had a choice about his future, but he didn't.  The Redskins simply outbid the lowly Browns for this "upgrade" you speak of. 

You have to remember more than likely Smith did want to be here due to the contract extension. Smith easily could have said "Nope I'm playing on a one year deal" and then we would have been in the same boat all over again. So yes I would say with the extension he wanted to somewhat be here.