2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[Skinsinparadise]

19 hours ago, carex said:

 

considering we're trying to build through the draft, it's pretty obvious.

 

You know I think the people calling for a tear down and rebuild are kind of funny.  Cause on one hand they're saying our players are worthless and on the other they're saying trade them for whatever they're worth

 

It's pretty simple to me, plenty of teams stink who have good young players.  How can the two things go hand in hand?  Isn't that a contradiction?  Not really IMO. Football unlike most sports is heavily dependent on one position -- the QB position.  If you stink at QB you typically stink period with rare exceptions.  The Jets for years had a ballyhooed young D line but stunk anyway.    The irony is they broke up that band right before landing Darnold.

 

The Browns been building a young nucleus for years but still stunk and all of a sudden boom got good with Mayfield.    That wasn't about Mayfield alone but them also having a good nucleus, too.  But the young nucleus without the QB stunk.  You need both but the QB spot is the harder find by far -- and Bruce and Dan could especially tell that tale considering all the resources they spent chasing one.   So I think they get this point to a degree. 

 

Will Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne take this team to the SB -- nope IMO, that's laughable.  It's not laughable because they aren't good players but the idea that your defensive tackles are going to lead the ride.  Rams had some stars on the D line, including arguably the best defensive player in the league -- with even a star RB in that mix but were bad to mediocre until they figured out their passing game with a young QB. 

 

My point is the Holy Grail at best with Colt McCoy and Josh Johnson at the helm is 9-7 and that goes double with their ragtag receiving corp.   I think its much more likely a 5-11 team.  And that's not because they lack a young player nucleus.  But its because their weakness just happens to be the most important strength needed to compete with the big boys -- a passing game.

 

So IMO do whatever you can to get that young and upcoming QB.  Otherwise you will be wasting the young-cheap part of the career of Payne, Allen, Ionnaidis. 

[Thinking Skins]

On 1/26/2019 at 7:44 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I liked Richardson and in retrospect I was wrong about him because I should have focused more on his lack of durability in Seattle -- but I don't think I'd consider him a splash signing.  He to me is a mid-tier guy.  They've done decent with some mid-tier signings but poorly with others.

 

I'd say they've really only had 2 splash signings:  D. Jackson and J. Norman.   Both big names with big personalities.  Bruce typically doesn't roll with signings like that. 

 

I agree with this to an extent but lets not forget that we were trying to sign guys to bigger deals, they just happened to choose elsewhere. I think it was Wilkerson last year who we talked to, not to mention Hankins. I think it was Campbell 2 years ago. I think it was Malcolm Jenkins a few years ago. 

 

I don't know if these are all "splash" signings, but where he changed our philosophy has been instead of going after "has beens" or "proven" guys, he's looking for younger guys who can outperform their contracts. So with DJ and Zack, which I'd call the biggest names we've signed recently, we saw that they had baggage because they couldn't stay on a team so his lower offer was accepted. But it doesn't work in going after a Campbell because that dude is an all pro every year so he's not going to take some offer that says "well you could theoretically be the best guy at your position except for these few snaps here so I'm going to reduce your salary". 

 

But this is where I agree with you a bit. I don't think we should necessarily be going after the 33 year olds who have a few years left in the tank. Nor should we exclude ourselves to the 27 and below crowd. There are a few GAMECHANGERS who in the 28-32 year old market who we could get and we've stopped going after for the most part. I mean hearing the Gruden episode about how they didn't get Campbell but got 2 guys for the same price was just shake my head bad and laughable because he was serious. Had we done that we could have (a) not collapsed in 2017 when Allen went down and (b) not needed to draft Payne and thus gotten the best player in the draft in 2018. 

[Thinking Skins]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's pretty simple to me, plenty of teams stink who have good young players.  How can the two things go hand in hand?  Isn't that a contradiction?  Not really IMO. Football unlike most sports is heavily dependent on one position -- the QB position.  If you stink at QB you typically stink period with rare exceptions.  The Jets for years had a ballyhooed young D line but stunk anyway.    The irony is they broke up that band right before landing Darnold.

 

I think you can also add Minnesota and Jacksonville as examples of this. Throughout the reign of AP, Minny has been able to put up respectable records but wasn't any type of a threat to do anything special and that was with good players almost everywhere else (except QB). Jacksonville had been building their defense up for ages but had Bortles at QB. The year that both these teams showed the minimum amount of respectability is when they had QBs who weren't stinking up the joint. 

 

But  the funny thing is that while every year we seem to be having the all pro superstar QBs in the big dance, the ability to build a winning team and a winning element seems only to take the game manager type QB. And we can say that that type has been here over and over again in Danny's reign. From (I'm not counting Banks) Brunell, RG3, Kirk and Smith. We can debate about what was wrong with each of them but all 4 of those QBs showed they could take a team to the playoffs, problem was that none of those were in a position to be here long term. The closest was RG3 and he went down against Baltimore and then Seattle and hasn't been the same since, let along his ego and coachability. 

 

So can "they" find a 5th QB in the last 15 years to lead this team? I honestly don't doubt that they can find somebody to not make mistakes and keep Jay and Bruce employed for another 5 plus years by going 7-9 to 10-6, but if the question is will Jay be able to make AJ McCarron or Tyrod Taylor or Taylor Heinicke into anything close to what RG3 was as a rookie or Kirk was in 2017, I doubt it. So that puts us in this NFL pergatory for years to come. 

 

Its funny because people think that we're going to bottom out and maybe that's just the optimist in you all, but I see us being dangled on a string and just played with as if we're "close" and doing just enough for Dan not to abandon ship and start over. I can't see Gruden doing what Shanny did with Rex and Beck and putting his (already low) reputation on one of these QBs. 

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I agree with this to an extent but lets not forget that we were trying to sign guys to bigger deals, they just happened to choose elsewhere. I think it was Wilkerson last year who we talked to, not to mention Hankins. I think it was Campbell 2 years ago. I think it was Malcolm Jenkins a few years ago. 

 

Wilkerson and Hankins didn't get big deals last year.  We were so starving pre drafting Payne for another D line and have signed so many low tier to lower end mid tier guys that we salivated over Wilkerson and Hankins but neither were big tickets players at least not last year.

 

Campbell was a big ticket guy but from what I heard they didn't even give him an offer once they saw what the market was for him.  

 

They don't swing for the fences much.  But yeah for everything there are exceptions.  But on the aggregate that's not how they roll.  And this time I hope Bruce does the same, try to get Wilcox at a bargain versus shooting for Landon Collins.  I want the junk signings this year or nothing.  Typically I'd want a big signing even if its just one signing and no junk signings at all. 

 

This year for different reasons my number one preference is for them to lose every FA they got sans Peterson and they sign no one.  But I doubt that happens so I'd be happy with Bruce's usual low key-low impact signings.  Somehow I suspect though the opposite happens and they do shoot high this year -- hope am wrong.

 

35 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But this is where I agree with you a bit. I don't think we should necessarily be going after the 33 year olds who have a few years left in the tank. Nor should we exclude ourselves to the 27 and below crowd. There are a few GAMECHANGERS who in the 28-32 year old market who we could get and we've stopped going after for the most part. I mean hearing the Gruden episode about how they didn't get Campbell but got 2 guys for the same price was just shake my head bad and laughable because he was serious. Had we done that we could have (a) not collapsed in 2017 when Allen went down and (b) not needed to draft Payne and thus gotten the best player in the draft in 2018. 

 

My philosophy on FA is typically this:

 

A. Either go for it hard or not.  And by splash, I don't mean some Cerrato FA style has been signing.  Lets take this FA crop, an emerging youngish star like Collins or Clowney.  

B.  I don't want to bust the budget or cap.   I'd rather spend 10 million plus on one guy than 3 million plus on 3 guys.  So I am not into spending more but spending on quality not quantity.

C.  I'd rather have a young player play than some veteran FA signing like a Reyes, McClain, etc.    So I hate usually these patch type signings.  

 

So this year I don't think they are close enough to warrant a big signing and I want to reboot with high picks in the 2020 draft.  So I want them to either do nothing or sign junk on the cheap.   Left to me I'd sign no one.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

IAnd we can say that that type has been here over and over again in Danny's reign. From (I'm not counting Banks) Brunell, RG3, Kirk and Smith. We can debate about what was wrong with each of them but all 4 of those QBs showed they could take a team to the playoffs, problem was that none of those were in a position to be here long term. The closest was RG3 and he went down against Baltimore and then Seattle and hasn't been the same since, let along his ego and coachability. 

 

So can "they" find a 5th QB in the last 15 years to lead this team? I honestly don't doubt that they can find somebody to not make mistakes and keep Jay and Bruce employed for another 5 plus years by going 7-9 to 10-6, but if the question is will Jay be able to make AJ McCarron or Tyrod Taylor or Taylor Heinicke into anything close to what RG3 was as a rookie or Kirk was in 2017, I doubt it. So that puts us in this NFL pergatory for years to come. 

 

Agree with all of this.  That's my fear.  I hate this idea that Bruce hinted at and some even on the board sometimes espouse (though to each their own on that front) that sneaking into the playoffs is the be all end all.   These days we talk about the 2012 or 15, or 2007 seasons almost like people in the old days talked about SB runs -- it feels really pathetic that eking into the playoffs every 4 years or so is the new goal.  And then maybe every 10 years winning one playoff game. 

 

I used to bask in nostalgia as much as the next guy.  But now when I show my 11 year old son, old highlights about Redskins SB wins and to think that was ages ago and to him its a crazy bygone era -- sort of how it felt to me in the 80s hearing about the old GB early SB dynasties that happened before I was born -- almost feels depressing to me.

 

I'd rather go 3-13 then go for a run of 7-9.  Don't mind 7-9 if its a youngish team with a youngish QB.  

 

43 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Its funny because people think that we're going to bottom out and maybe that's just the optimist in you all, but I see us being dangled on a string and just played with as if we're "close" and doing just enough for Dan not to abandon ship and start over. I can't see Gruden doing what Shanny did with Rex and Beck and putting his (already low) reputation on one of these QBs. 

 

I think your scenario is likely what indeed happens.  I am just hoping we do what was done in 2011.   The only move that splits the difference would be them trading up again for a young QB.  By splitting the difference I mean I don't love giving up draft capitol but if they get it right this time they'd have a young franchise guy. 

[JSSkinz]

 

[carex]

On 1/27/2019 at 3:44 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree with all of this.  That's my fear.  I hate this idea that Bruce hinted at and some even on the board sometimes espouse (though to each their own on that front) that sneaking into the playoffs is the be all end all.   These days we talk about the 2012 or 15, or 2007 seasons almost like people in the old days talked about SB runs -- it feels really pathetic that eking into the playoffs every 4 years or so is the new goal.  And then maybe every 10 years winning one playoff game. 

 

I used to bask in nostalgia as much as the next guy.  But now when I show my 11 year old son, old highlights about Redskins SB wins and to think that was ages ago and to him its a crazy bygone era -- sort of how it felt to me in the 80s hearing about the old GB early SB dynasties that happened before I was born -- almost feels depressing to me.

 

I'd rather go 3-13 then go for a run of 7-9.  Don't mind 7-9 if its a youngish team with a youngish QB.  

 

 

where's this confidence they won't end up perpetually 3-13

[Darth Tater]

54 minutes ago, carex said:

 

where's this confidence they won't end up perpetually 3-13

NFL is not set up that way, the set up is for most of the teams to be mediocre and a lucky play here or there (sometimes official interference) determines whether your watching the playoffs on TV or in the playoffs.  8 new teams were in the playoffs this year.  In the playoffs after the 2017 season, none of the NFC teams that won that division even had winning records the previous season and 3 had losing seasons (including 1 that only won 4). The Jags went from a team 1 play away (thanks to questionable officiating, how interesting) away from the SB to a team that could barely muster 5 wins.  The NFC produces a new SB contender almost annually and some backed into the playoffs to begin with. Very few teams hard suck for more than 2 years.  Besides, evidence for the Redskins seem more that we will be stuck in perpetual mediocrity forever. At least for the first 2 3-13 type seasons, you have some off season hope (you get a top pick and maybe some exciting picks). With perpetual mediocrity, only hope is that you get lucky. Our longest period of suck went from 2009 to 2011 and the only 3 years of suck besides that went from 1993 to 1995.  In fact, you have got to 1958 through 1961 to find the longest period of Redskins suck.

[FrFan]

 

[oraphus]

I am all in for a 2 year rebuild... it just makes sense - which is why Skins FO will not do it.

2019

cut Smith and take his 50mil cap hit in one year

1. cut/ trade all underperforming, expensive players that wont be here in 2years - Norman, Foster, Reed, Davis, Brown, Moses, Mghee, preston smith, 

     a. this should again net us 4 compensatory pics in 2020

     b. all the cuts should enable skins to absorb the Smith cap hit

2. If you must, draft a qb past the 2nd round to groom as backup. Otherwise try to shore up many of other positions in the draft

3. Start some combination of Colt/ cheap FA/ Johnson QB combo in 2019

4. use all the draft pics to draft BPA+ need

Finish year with ~2-4 wins

 

2020

-No more cap penalty for the Smith deal

-loaded with lots of draft pics

-dump GM/ HC/ DC - going to happen either way

1. Make it attractive for a new GM/ HC to come in

  a. lost of cap space

  b. high draft pick - to use on qb in a qb heavy class

  c. Good nucleus of young/ hungry players

PLAYOFFS 

 

[Anselmheifer]

On 1/28/2019 at 3:47 PM, JSSkinz said:

 

How much does Nick Foles make on the open market?

[JSSkinz]

53 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

How much does Nick Foles make on the open market?

If they are assuming Philly will get a 3rd back in the supplementary draft then they must believe he will get top dollar, something around $20 - $25M per year.

 

I think its crazy but teams that are desperate will overpay for a QB, last year proved that.

[Anselmheifer]

On 1/27/2019 at 3:10 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My philosophy on FA is typically this:

 

A. Either go for it hard or not.  And by splash, I don't mean some Cerrato FA style has been signing.  Lets take this FA crop, an emerging youngish star like Collins or Clowney.  

 

 

 

I agree with this. Occasionally a relative bargain works out. DJ Swearinger and Zach Brown outperformed their contracts. Most of our bargan signings have been awful. Every board member on extremeskins knew that we would have been better off signing one impact player than Stacy McGee and Terrell McClain.  

[wit33]

12 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

If they are assuming Philly will get a 3rd back in the supplementary draft then they must believe he will get top dollar, something around $20 - $25M per year.

 

I think its crazy but teams that are desperate will overpay for a QB, last year proved that.

 

I’m wondering if QB bubble has finally bursted. The upcoming Foles contract will be interesting to follow.

 

 

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I agree with this. Occasionally a relative bargain works out. DJ Swearinger and Zach Brown outperformed their contracts. Most of our bargan signings have been awful. Every board member on extremeskins knew that we would have been better off signing one impact player than Stacy McGee and Terrell McClain.  

 

Free agents on the aggregate are terrible investments. This is true for every franchise. 

[skinny21]

@oraphusPretty sure you don’t get comp picks for players you cut or trade.  

[oraphus]

11 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@oraphusPretty sure you don’t get comp picks for players you cut or trade.  

Pretty sure you're right, but my point is to get pics:

1. They will get comp pics for players like P.Smith, Dix, Mcphee, Peterson and Nsekeh who are all FAs and will most likely get picked up by other teams if not resigned which should net Skins comp pics.

2. Players they could possibly trade: Moses, Norman, Reed and even Williams - could net more pics

3. Players they cut: Foster, Brown, Sweringer - would all count towards cap savings but no comp pics obviously 

[Malapropismic Depository]

When will we know if, and for how long, R-Foster will be suspended ?

[Est.1974]

Redskins carry over a flat 5mil in cap space. Looks like we have around 20mil in 2019 cap space available, after draft picks and applying the final rule of 51.

 

Pretty sure we need to make a couple of contract adjustments.

 

Extend Scherff. Should claw back 2-3 mil in year one, but he's gonna get a big contract.

 

Get rid of either Reed or Davis. No way we can afford 2 highly paid TEs. Gets another 5mil.

 

Ditch McGee, that's another 2-3mil

 

That gets us to around 30mil in space. More than enough if we go forward with McCoy, Johnson and a rookie QB. Thats depressing though, unless we get lucky with the rookie QB.

 

If we chase a Free agent QB, or look to trade for one, then it looks to me like Josh Norman, maybe Kerrigan, are on the hook.

 

 

 

 

[markmills67]

On 1/31/2019 at 2:55 AM, Anselmheifer said:

 

I agree with this. Occasionally a relative bargain works out. DJ Swearinger and Zach Brown outperformed their contracts. Most of our bargan signings have been awful. Every board member on extremeskins knew that we would have been better off signing one impact player than Stacy McGee and Terrell McClain.  

You could say Brown outperformed on his original 1 year deal, but then went downhill when signing 3 year deal. Release him and save about 5m on cap. 

 

HTTR 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

You could say Brown outperformed on his original 1 year deal, but then went downhill when signing 3 year deal. Release him and save about 5m on cap. 

 

HTTR 

 

Good call, I intended to include Brown in my post above.

 

The interesting twist could be the Rob Ryan connection from 2016 in Buffalo. Might have some influence on things.

 

Either way, Brown isn't worth 7mil in 2019 so something need to give contract wise.

[Burgold]

I realize they weren't technically free agents, but both the Bears and Cowboys really improved due to trading for vets. Cooper in particular turned the Cowboys around, but the Raiders sure made a lot teams better this year.

 

I think the trick is to know what you're getting, how they fit, and what you want out of them.  Zach Brown was a very good signing for a team that needed a run stopper and a downhill attacker. We decided we wanted to use our inside linebackers in coverage. Thus, a good player was forced to play to his chief weaknesses. 

 

The signing wasn't bad. The usage or the plan was.

[Skinsinparadise]

There was a good article about how FA has changed in recent years, I posted it last year, I couldn't find it just now.  But it got into FA has been more effective in recent years and some teams have gotten good at really complementing their roster via shrewd signings.

 

Heck being a regular on the FA thread over the years, some of the guys we've highlighted like L. Joseph have turned out to be beasts at their next stop.

 

We are hardened to FA doesn't work because we've had two of the most inept GMs in FAs who both have shown the opposite extremes of how not to play FA IMO.   Vinny in that he eagerly overpays and often didn't factor character and age in his signings.  Bruce in that he mostly signs junk and wants to hit the lottery with it.  And yeah both Vinny and Bruce have exceptions to that but that's mostly how they roll.   Vinny's big FA year being 2004.  Bruce being 2017 IMO.

 

I recall for example once dissecting the Giants recent FA signings looking at guys like Jenkins, Snacks, DRC, etc and comparing it to their junk signings.  Their junk signings have stunk for the most part.  Aiming higher has mostly worked.  "Mostly" is the operative word.  You are going to swing and miss with FA.  But I recall the thesis of the article is the reason why FA works now more than in years past is because of the cap's continued strong rise.  You can get a way with a miss easier now so its become less risky.  I also think teams have become smarter at how to use it.

 

I still hold to a no guts no glory style to building a team -- as Sean McVay likes to say "attack success" take chances.  Having said that since I want a high 2020 draft pick, this year I fully embrace Bruce's ho hum FA approach. 

 

So Bruce don't go for Earl Thomas or London Collins to shore up SS.  We all know you don't want to go for them and if we chase them its a Dan egged on move.  Bruce trust your instincts and go get JJ Wilcox at "a deal".   And if it makes you happy go buy another 4 junk players like that.   This time no complaints, I embrace it.

[Est.1974]

I missed the news that Gallete is begging at the door again. He sure is trying hard. Think I'd actually throw him a bone, a very cheap one, at this stage once we have a roster place.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

47 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I missed the news that Gallete is begging at the door again. He sure is trying hard. Think I'd actually throw him a bone, a very cheap one, at this stage once we have a roster place.

Galette is so interesting. He wanted on the team so badly last year and we said "just wait" and never got around to it. He still has limited tread given his time off for injuries and suspensions. As a pass-rushing specialist, I'd love to have him on the team next year, especially if we lose Preston, which I fully anticipate at this stage.

 

I feel like the Patriots are always spot-on with their FA signings. Never really any sexy ones outside of the occasional big name ... but they bring guys in that fit their scheme perfectly, and make them look really smart. Every year I'm like who the hell is that guy playing X for the Pats ... and look him up and he's some small FA signing. Idk. I would buy into that if the person making the decisions was intelligent.

[wit33]

If in win now mode. I like idea of aggressively going after Earl Thomas and hope a pass rusher becomes free.

 

Dee Ford and Clowney appear to have nest chance of becoming free. 

 

This would position defense to make another significant step and potentially lead the team to a good season. A lot of dollars and cap flexibility would be lost, but it’d be interesting approach.