The Evil Genius Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4-5 million GOP votes for President in California are wasted every 4 years. I think they should have an equal say in who gets to be President. Btw, that's the equivalent of the smallest 16 states total votes for the GOP candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, Hersh said: Come general election time, how many presidential candidates go to rural areas? or are you saying the candidates won't talk about issues that rural people care about? I would say more the latter. Not just won't talk about but really no reason to even care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I would say more the latter. Not just won't talk about but really no reason to even care. What are the issues that rural people want to talk about that urban people don't care about? I'm not asking with any type of tone, but I can't think of any specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hersh said: What are the issues that rural people want to talk about that urban people don't care about? I'm not asking with any type of tone, but I can't think of any specifically. I'm not rural so I don't know. Haha The fact that (being very general here) urban tends to be more liberal and rural tends to be more conservative can probably give you some ideas (racism that is synonymous with conservatism aside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Maybe farming issues, gun ownership, land rights would be different for people living in more isolated rural areas especially if they have more land for farming or other purposes. Just guessing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Holding breath for DeSantis denouncement of the racist robocalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 33 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I'm not rural so I don't know. Haha The fact that (being very general here) urban tends to be more liberal and rural tends to be more conservative can probably give you some ideas (racism that is synonymous with conservatism aside). 25 minutes ago, visionary said: Maybe farming issues, gun ownership, land rights would be different for people living in more isolated rural areas especially if they have more land for farming or other purposes. Just guessing though. That's a solid list, but, maybe it's cause I live in a state capital (Raleigh), I hear about those issues plenty. Heck, you can't go anywhere without hearing about gun ownership. We actually have a No Farms, No Food. Support NC Farmers sign out front that the woman wanted to put up. I can see the divide in issues being addressed being more of a thing in some of the biggest cities in the country like DC, Philly, NYC. Thinking more, I think land management is a good topic, but candidates for POTUS don't really address that beyond being for national parks or for states owning more land. It still seems to comeback to issues that all people want to talk about: Jobs, Education, Health Care. Since we are talking about it, the lessening of campaign ads and campaign stops in NC would be so awesome which is what I would think would happen if we did away with the electoral college. Candidates would have to focus more on their ground games in more states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, Hersh said: It still seems to comeback to issues that all people want to talk about: Jobs, Education, Health Care. Issues that all care Bout doesn't mean they agree on the way forward for them. Overly general hypothetical: everyone cares about jobs. Rural people think all jobs should have a 40 hour a week limit. All urban people think 20 hour limit. Which way is a politician gonna go? Probably with urban since that is 80% of society. But those urban people don't understand why rural wants 40 hour weeks because they don't know the details. And politician doesn't care to learn because they are only 20% of the voting block. So the rural voter never gets listened to. This why I'm against one person, one vote. That doesn't mean I think our current system is perfect. As far as where you live I would guess, based on no facts whatsoever, that your city is different from New York or LA because you are in a "rural", southern state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Issues that all care Bout doesn't mean they agree on the way forward for them. Overly general hypothetical: everyone cares about jobs. Rural people think all jobs should have a 40 hour a week limit. All urban people think 20 hour limit. Which way is a politician gonna go? Probably with urban since that is 80% of society. But those urban people don't understand why rural wants 40 hour weeks because they don't know the details. And politician doesn't care to learn because they are only 20% of the voting block. So the rural voter never gets listened to. This why I'm against one person, one vote. That doesn't mean I think our current system is perfect. As far as where you live I would guess, based on no facts whatsoever, that your city is different from New York or LA because you are in a "rural", southern state. A politician playing to a more popular position? Say it ain't say I'm less cynical than you about that aspect of it because anything like that is counterbalanced by the fact that each state has 2 senators. Those rural/less populated states have a disproportionate amount of power right now and that will only get stronger in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 7 hours ago, Kilmer17 said: Here are some states that should be addressed right? Maryland. Ds 60 percent of the vote=87 percent of the reps Massachusetts Ds 79 percent of the vote= 100 of the reps Illinois. Ds 53 percent of the vote= 61 percent of the reps One man's gerrymander is another man's fair line. I'd need to see maps, I wouldn't assume garrymanding from that even if other way around with those ratios. The fact so many people song make a selection for every position when they votes throws me off in regards to non presidential, governor, or senate positions. We really need those work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'd need to see maps, I wouldn't assume garrymanding from that even if other way around with those ratios. The fact so many people song make a selection for every position when they votes throws me off in regards to non presidential, governor, or senate positions. We really need those work on that. See that’s my point. Political choices SHOULD change over time and election to election. So the idea that this district is unfair because it has too many gop voters is just wrong to me. Racially? Absolutely should be forbidden. But political parties aren’t protected like race etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: See that’s my point. Political choices SHOULD change over time and election to election. So the idea that this district is unfair because it has too many gop voters is just wrong to me. Racially? Absolutely should be forbidden. But political parties aren’t protected like race etc. Is there a reason we can't just do it by county for districts and population in each county to determine number of reps? Each county is a district, number of people in distric determines number of representatives? I agree, doing by race is asking for it, same as number registered to each party. Another thing is voter turnout. In Florida, registered dems outnumber republicans, but still about 50-50, but house is 75 to 41 GOP. We can fix garrymanding all we want, but if GOP votes more in midterms, we're wasting our time trying to make districts fair. Can't find number for Florida in 2014, but believe national turnout was like 40% tops total. We're not really a representative democracy with turnout that low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I don't think it is unfair to have a process for updating district lines every so often, however it is the process of re-writing them that could be the problem when a single party holds control in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: See that’s my point. Political choices SHOULD change over time and election to election. So the idea that this district is unfair because it has too many gop voters is just wrong to me. Racially? Absolutely should be forbidden. But political parties aren’t protected like race etc. No one is saying it's unfair that a single district has too many GOP voters. There are going to be plenty of districts that, no matter how they are drawn will have big majorities for one party or the other. It's about states being so gerrymandered based on political registration that it's creating super majorities that are near impossible to break even with nearly 50-50 voting splits. Should the GOP have majorities in PA despite losing the state wide voting total? Technology has changed the game when it comes to drawing these maps. Gerrymandered districts like this are bad for the country as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, bearrock said: Holding breath for DeSantis denouncement of the racist robocalls. Don't, we want you around here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: I don't think it is unfair to have a process for updating district lines every so often, however it is the process of re-writing them that could be the problem when a single party holds control in doing so. Oh, as I see it, there's exactly two ways a nonpartisan system like California's system gets passed. 1) The party that has the power to draw lines to favor themselves, votes to take power away from themselves. 2) The voters do it without the legislative process. (Note: The only way option 2 happens is if the voters who put Party X in charge choose to take that power away from the Party they voted for) Guess which one i figure is more likely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I bet 10 kids at MIT could come up with a truly nonpartisan algorithm to be implemented if we offered some kind of reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I bet 10 kids at MIT could come up with a truly nonpartisan algorithm to be implemented if we offered some kind of reward. Way to discriminate against the 400lb guy sitting in his parents basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Hersh said: Way to discriminate against the 400lb guy sitting in his parents basement. The 400lb guy whose vote is worth 3X as much as the MIT kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 3 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I bet 10 kids at MIT could come up with a truly nonpartisan algorithm to be implemented if we offered some kind of reward. I'd give it an hour before it collects enough information to become self aware, realizes that we're hopeless, and enslaves us. ...still better than Hillary tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 How the Democratic Party Can Turn the Sun Belt Blue >>From Florida to Texas, November’s elections provide an opening for Democrats to shift the balance of power—and make up for lost ground in the heartland.<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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